Holiday Rereleases

[DragonLady86]

you may be BUT i am not

 

i said it before and i'll say it again dragons especially cb ones SHOULD NOT be considered trophies available to only a select few. there are people who missed out on this christmas release and i felt awful because it was out of their control for missing it.

 

 

we already have trophies and badges at the top of our scrolls for that stuff. please dont try to include dragons in that regard as well seeing as how this is a collecting game and everyone should be able to the same chance every day to catch a dragon that they want

lol CB holidays with a limited release have been around a LOT longer than trophies. And, not counting Halloweens you used to only get TWO period. Be thankful you can get them at all. They have always been an "I was here". thing.

 

There are always going to be people who missed out. I don't have CB Yulebucks because I joined just after their release. Oh well. At least I can get the sprite. This is a sprite collecting game. The difference between lineage and CB is player-perception, because the cave makes no such distinction.

[Jazeki]

quote is from an old thread i was reading

Thanks for quoting my post from a million years ago.

 

Anyway, I'm just popping in to say that while the holidays are definitely a "I was here" thing and are easy as dirt to get now for Christmas and V-Day, it's important to remember the people that were here back in the day, but could not catch what they needed for whatever reason. It's not just people who are new and were not here that would like to see this implemented.

 

(Insert story that I always post about being here for 2009 V-day, but missing every dragon I clicked.)

[Robot Chimera]

As weird as this sounds, I would rather that past holidays come back into the cave. Even though I missed out on many past holidays - looking at the ribbon dancers! - I personally don't like the idea that everyone can get one even though they haven't signed up or played that year/time. Each holiday IMO represents another celebration for the individuals during the playerbase of that "era". Nothing can really bring that back. At most, I would like the see the past holidays go into reruns - of course, with a new holiday - eventually, but currently I am content with the fact that I "missed out".

Some old holidays (especially hollies) kind of need a re-release since not many exist in the cave, at least on active users. It's nearly impossible to make lineages with them since almost all the 3g-4gs of a certain checker have related parents.

 

 

I would oppose anything that meant giving up multiclutches. And I would not be at all happy to see them dropping in cave. Which leaves - the store. And at least that would WORK. There are such huge disadvantages to everything else so far suggested.

 

We have no idea how TJ feels about it; for all we know he is already working on it. But saying well, let's do something less good instead in case he is ignoring the whole thing is not the way to approach it, I think. The store would add so many other great things to the game as well as solving this issue that it is worth pushing for.

There are other options as well. What others are saying is not to assume the store is the only option, because it is not.

It is also not the best option - that is your opinion. Doing something "less good" in your opinion may be something that others would rather have. Keep in mind the store is a possible option and not the only solution. Don't bash others for suggesting anything other than the store.

[Sundew]

Be thankful you can get them at all. They have always been an "I was here".  thing.

I'm sorry but this is a terribly unwelcoming attitude and I can't see how thinking like this will benefit anyone. We should not be so disdainful of people simply because they are new and do not have the same CBs as us. Telling newcomers to suck it up and get over it will not convince anyone to stick around.

 

I don't see the harm in rereleasing holidays aside from possibly threatening those who are so proud to have been around for their CBs. Gameplay should reward for dedication, not age.

 

I don't know if it has been suggested already, but if we were to go with holidays in the store, it might be useful to discount then during the holidays. They become easier to obtain, appropriate for the season, but at the cost of having to balance them with other holiday collecting.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't know if it has been suggested already, but if we were to go with holidays in the store, it might be useful to discount then during the holidays. They become easier to obtain, appropriate for the season, but at the cost of having to balance them with other holiday collecting.

I rather like that thought

 

And yes it's true that even being here didn't necessarily.... I only have one CB Sweetling, because there were loads of problems (and with hindsight I kind of wish I'd been caught in the best known glitch) and there I was trying to catch one on dialup when they were acting up anyway. Even hunting with total dedication doesn't guarantee a CB on a holiday.

[Paradisiske]

I'm sorry but this is a terribly unwelcoming attitude and I can't see how thinking like this will benefit anyone. We should not be so disdainful of people simply because they are new and do not have the same CBs as us. Telling newcomers to suck it up and get over it will not convince anyone to stick around.

 

I don't see the harm in rereleasing holidays aside from possibly threatening those who are so proud to have been around for their CBs. Gameplay should reward for dedication, not age.

 

I don't know if it has been suggested already, but if we were to go with holidays in the store, it might be useful to discount then during the holidays. They become easier to obtain, appropriate for the season, but at the cost of having to balance them with other holiday collecting.

thank you for standing up for my defense i appreciate it. it was a rude attitude towards me and i refrained from replying to the bait as i most certainly would have gotten a warning.

 

 

i dont care if they come back through the cave or through the store i would just like them to come back

[andromedae]

The store is a great option, that's understandable, but again, it's worth mentioning that it is not the only option or even the best in the eyes of everyone. We all have different opinions, and that's completely valid. We also have to look beyond the store when building up on suggestions because we have no guarantee that it'll be implemented. In many suggestions throughout the cave, I see quite a few individuals regarding the store as the ultimate answer. This leads to disregarding solutions that do not include the store entirely - which would make sense if the store had become an official feature, but it hasn't. So, it's probably reasonable to accept the fact that other alternatives can be considered too.

 

The spirit of this suggestion is to remove the fact that missing out/being new will diminish your versatility within the game. Yes, it's a sprite collection game but it's also one that involves lineage creation. CBs are fundamental to the creation of quite a few lineages, and I don't see why newer players or those who missed out on a year or two should have reduced possibilities with lineages for the rest of their days. If anything, re-introducing CB Holidays wouldn't affect anyone negatively (assuming multiclutches wouldn't be removed). If someone doesn't want to pick up CB Holidays from past years they certainly don't have to.

[Fuzzbucket]

ANYTHING that is suggested will need TJ's input, so what you say applies to every idea that comes up.

[Dragon_Arbock]

After spending time on other adoptable/pet sites, DC is very unaccessible to new players.

It's okay to have one or two breeds or things that only the 'old crowd' could get, but when it happens 3 times every single year, that's a lot. Not only that, but we can't even breed more of these dragons until next year, so new players can't even complete their collections for at least a year.

At this point there's also 12 years of them (at least for chirstmas- less for other holidays), but still that's more than even fits on a scroll at one time.

I would honestly want there to be a chance of holidays to breed the entire year. There's no real reason why they shouldn't be able to. But the more I think about DC, the more I see how stagnant of a game it is where you do nothing but a lot of waiting with nothing to hold your attention on the side.

[olympe]

Uh, DC is less than 11 years old, and the first holiday dragon released was the Holly, which was released in December 2007.

 

That being said, even with a bronze trophy scroll (which you can achieve very quickly, even if you're a total noob at first) and enough incubates (or help from certain threads around here), you can easily hatch 15 eggs during a breeding week and still be able to grab a scroll full of new eggs (for Halloween) and still catch more Halloween eggs in the following days, probably up to 10 more. That's 25 - and enough to give you more than 2 of each Halloween breed.

 

That being said, each of us started out as a new player once upon a time. And for most of us, that meant that there were not only CB dragons, but also certain sprites that were totally unavailable to us. It took me literally more than 5 years to get a bright pink (Aria) for the first time, because the breed had been discontinued before then. Getting a sitting / curled alt black could take two years or more, since these two cycled - and one cycle easily took two years or more to complete. Frills were all but gone for around 4-5 years. And, not to mention, I never had a chance to grab a true CB vamp, Val '09, Holly or Yulebuck. And, due to being new, I missed the release of the Pumpkins. It didn't stop me, though, and now I have 2nd gens of all of them (but hollies - I'm still working on that.)

Edited January 10, 2017 by olympe

[Dragon_Arbock]

Uh, DC is less than 11 years old, and the first holiday dragon released was the Holly, which was released in December 2007.

 

That being said, even with a bronze trophy scroll (which you can achieve very quickly, even if you're a total noob at first) and enough incubates (or help from certain threads around here), you can easily hatch 15 eggs during a breeding week and still be able to grab a scroll full of new eggs (for Halloween) and still catch more Halloween eggs in the following days, probably up to 10 more. That's 25 - and enough to give you more than 2 of each Halloween breed.

I counted wrong, sorry- 10, not 12- still more than what fits on a scroll at once though.

 

And yes, incubate and trophies are a thing now, but that still means if you want to collect both an adult and a frozen hatchling, you're very limited on what else you can pick up, and need to time it right.

[olympe]

We all need to time things right during Holiday breeding weeks. That's part of the charm of the DC holidays IMHO. However, you're always free to continue your collection the next year, or the year after that. Nobody ever said that DC was about instant gratification.

 

 

[Dragon_Arbock]

Well it's that people do not always have a whole week- lots of people travel specifically for Christmas (not so much Halloween or Valentines day), and be stuck places with bad or no internet.

I like the idea of a store where players who missed out can still earn a holiday at any time of the year.

[andromedae]

ANYTHING that is suggested will need TJ's input, so what you say applies to every idea that comes up.

What I meant (and mentioned) was that the store can't be treated as an absolute that rules out every other option, not that it shouldn't be considered (which it is). The store and any other alternative have equal value in terms of validity if neither one has been confirmed (which it hasn't). Basically, the store is not superior to any other solution posed, but an equal.

Edited January 10, 2017 by andromedae

[aussieJJDude]

you may be BUT i am not

I'm sorry you feel that way, and I understand that quite a few do. At the same time, I was merrily just stating that I don't agree with re-releases and "content" so far. it wasn't really part of my "argument" (reason for a better word) just to sum things up. Regardless, sorry you feel that way.

 

This pretty much sums up my stance:

Be thankful you can get them at all. They have always been an "I was here". thing.

At least its not like once they out, you can never get them again or even breed them into lineages - looking at GON for example, you can't make "proper lineages with them, you'll never see a 2g GON. At least with holidays, you can. Thats one of the many perks that DC has, it's not really a instant gratification type of thing. I personally think nowadays, most people in the world want everything - and want it now - and I like that DC isn't like that. Of course, I do have my objection somewhere - like the discontinuation of prizes, as from my understanding they where never mean't/no warning that they were discontinued, holidays were always meant to be a "once in a lifetime thing". And honestly, its not that hard to catch a 2G holiday - even in the AP, except hollies - and easily find that dragon the perfect mate to continue on its lineage. So I don't get why new players need to get a CB?

I too like collecting CB's, but I've learnt and accepted that there will be dragons I will never get a CB from. i enjoy having my badges of honor; i personally happy that I have got a reward for participating in DC for a number of years. New players missed out? (Tough love) I missed out of many halloween draggies, and if I really want to I could just collect 2G.

Plus for the people that do miss out, there are places where you can collect one. I spend my 3 days on xmas releasing CB eggs of the 2016 sprite, hoping/knowing that if someone missed out, they may have the opportunity to grab them.

DC holidays are fun, and its exciting to know that your part of a "never to be seen again in the cave" kind of thing.

(And yes, even though I love frills and aria's, I personally would of been happy if these breeds could just breed true and no new release in the cave...)

[Sundew]

I don't see the "instant gratification" to this--holidays will still be difficult to obtain, and still unbreedable almost all year.

Moreover I have not found it easy to collect mates fit my dragons, especially holidays--AP hunting does not do it.

 

It is possible to reward older players without punishing or discouraging new ones.

The badges are the things that actually prove your dedication, instead of just proving you were here at one time during the year. DC constantly rewards for remaining dedicated--breeding, BSAs, the vast amount of time it takes to make lineages--but I don't think the extreme limitedness of holidays is a positive part of this.

 

If we want to keep 2gs in circulation, we need to let new members have CBs. Otherwise we will always have to rely on increasingly inactive players, and the older users will be solely responsible for whether or not people get their dragons--and I don't think that's fair to anyone.

[aussieJJDude]

Well, I do see how it is "instant grat". I want to breed true and produce holiday offspring now, but I can. I have to wait, it isn't going to be instantly gratifying that I have to wait.

 

And it is quite easy to collect mates...

The breeding and trading forum contains numerous ways to do so. It may require a few years to get the lineage how you want it - to the right gen ect - but IMO, it just adds to the game and in my opinion, is far more rewarding! I love it when I finish a lineage that I took ages to build, and that is what DC is about. Taking a small part out of your day to hatch eggs and at the same time, build lineages. DC has never been an instant gratification type of game.

For me, badges aren't enough. It took me only 6 months to go silver once, and at most 1.5-2 years to go gold... Anyone can do that. It isn't a sign of dedication that you managed to do so. And completing the event and earning the badge, it kind of is a way. Likewise with the dragons. New players missed out on getting a CB? (Tough luck, so have I...?) They can still get the sprite onto their scroll through 2G and up.

It isn't extreme that new players are going to be disadvantaged in one way or another, its like proposing that new players also get 7 egg slots and 21 slots to keep things fair, which from my understanding, is what this topic is about. DC isn't fair, there are people with faster internet connections, luck, number of dragons, better lineages, more connections to you... New members have to start from scratch, just like we all did.

2G will eventually die out over time, but honestly it adds to it. At least the breeds aren't discontinued like the frills and arias were, we can still breed them and build lineages.

The system is fine currently, and new players just have to deal and move on with the fact that they can't have what others may have.... DC is about collection of sprites, if they want it badly, they will just collect lineages from the CB.

[Sundew]

New members start out with scratch and fewer opportunities. Years of dragons are already out of their grasp upon joining.

 

No one is proposing that holidays become easy to obtain or breedable year round or anything else that would be instantly gratifying.

 

You get once in a lifetime badges from these events--why must you also be the only group of people to have a fundamental part of the game?

 

If it's just about sprite collecting, why does it matter that we protect CBs so that other people can't get them?

 

 

[aussieJJDude]

New members start out with scratch and fewer opportunities. Years of dragons are already out of their grasp upon joining.

No matter when you started, you will have to start from scratch. We all did it and with time, our scrolls grew. *and* years of dragons aren't out of their reach, since the reintroduction of frills and aria. You can collect all dragon sprites out there... Its just a matter of whether they are CB or not! And they start of with the common, and then they might get some lineaged uncommons and then some messy rares. Over time, they can be replaced with shorter/cleaner lineages... or CB's. Many people can/do gift, so they aren't that disadvantaged!

 

No one is proposing that holidays become easy to obtain or breedable year round or anything else that would be instantly gratifying.

Well they kind of would be if everyone got a CB TBH. Even though they have to wait for the respective date to collect the CB, thats less than 365 days until the next event. That's easy to get and IMO, is something that can be "gratifying".

 

You get once in a lifetime badges from these events--why must you also be the only group of people to have a fundamental part of the game?

I don't know about you, but isn't DC about collecting badges? For me, I couldn't care less about the badges. At most, I consider my CB holidays to be badges... So in a way, for me everyone getting a CB is like collecting a badge. (And collecting holidays in not a fundamental part of the game, so yes. I may be one of the many that's entitled to a CB. )

 

If it's just about sprite collecting, why does it matter that we protect CBs so that other people can't get them?

CB's are "deemed special" by many... and yes it's just a sprite. But like I mentioned earlier, my CB's are my badges. I personally feel that everyone can get a CB holiday is degrading what the dragons are about, a limited time dragon that anyone playing that year can collect. If everyone can get a holly - which I bet is the reason why many support - then the value of hollies go, they just become another dragon you can breed true once a year. Hollies are and should remain special!

 

~~~

At most, I would like to see that newer players can get a max of 2, however if someone has already filled their "quota" during that particular release, they can have up to 4. (AS for halloweens, IDK. They are unlimited after all, but then again there's so many in circulation that I don't think collecting 2G is a problem.) Some form of specialness needs to be retained, everyone can save up in a store. Anyone can go and hunt the cave looking for a CB holly..... But only the players that have come back year after year can have a small reward, and increase of CB holidays.

And if everyone can get a CB holiday, then whats the point? You might as well miss the rush and then a few years later collect all the CB's that you missed. And no thank you to see the degradation of hollies, they are a special dragon and IMO, should remain as such. Plus if they go CB, imagine the lucky few that snagged a few - or one - and wanted to trade. They could ask for the world and it would be given to them. 2G hollies are "crazy expensive"... Imagine trading for a CB!!!!

[Jazeki]

Aussie, I support this because the suggestion is meant to increase the breeding pool and because I see no reason why CB holidays can't be re released. I missed three different CB holiday dragons and I would like another chance at them. With a re release, holidays do not become less special. In fact, we have a very, very small pool of CB hollies to work with. Should new lines die out in order to keep them "special?" What benefit is it other than to go "I have it. You don't." As it's been exemplified in the thread, the holiday dragons that are CB don't always mean "I was here and you weren't." There are users who were here on the holidays and couldn't catch the older breeds for whatever reason. This doesn't just benefit new players.

 

If you're worried about your CB holiday losing its "badge status" if this happens, just look at the release date.

 

Also, I'm not sure why the "this dragon is special so no" argument is happening and no one has made a fuss about the CB holidays that were chosen as HM prizes. (This comment isn't aimed specifically at you, Aussie. Just musing.) It's fine that a few users got a one in a million chance at getting something they missed, but the rest of DC can't?

Edited January 13, 2017 by Jazeki

[aussieJJDude]

Aussie, I support this because the suggestion is meant to increase the breeding pool and because I see no reason why CB holidays can't be re released. I missed three different CB holiday dragons and I would like another chance at them.

I understand, however its not something I agree on. I missed out on my fair share of holidays - particularly halloween as thats during my exam time - around a total of 4 now. Even though to get the chance to collect them sounds nice, I personally feel that is just "re-writing" what the holidays are about. And in a way, losses some of their specialness. I do agree however, that sometime in the future some of the older holidays may be hard to source - and if the game continues along, holidays from now - but its really not that much of a problem now, besides hollies.

Breeding pools for many holiday dragons are "fine" currently, so i don't see why this suggestion is necessary, hence why I don't support. Its easy to grow a lineage to 3rd or 4th gen without too much worries, and then at most a few years of collecting and trading to get to 5th - 6th gen. but it can be done.

 

With a re release, holidays do not become less special. In fact, we have a very, very small pool of CB hollies to work with.  Should new lines die out in order to keep them "special?"

That's when I think differently. If everyone can get their quota of hollies, they are going to be less special. I personally think that this suggestion is trying to make DC as fair as possible, and that older players must have the same playing field as the new ones. Newer players are naturally going to be disadvantaged from this, and like I said earlier. What would be the point of participating in the events if you can just get the dragon a year later? Holidays are special, many are in the events for the one thing: to collect the special and limited release dragon.

 

If you're worried about your CB holiday losing its "badge status" if this happens, just look at the release date.

For me, release date doesn't matter. Its more of "I was there" and in a similar light, can prove so - as I have a CB. I don't think its something that's too harsh TBH.

 

Also, I'm not sure why the "this dragon is special so no" argument is happening and no one has made a fuss about the CB holidays that were chosen as HM prizes. (This comment isn't aimed specifically at you, Aussie. Just musing.) It's fine that a few users got a one in a million chance at getting something they missed, but the rest of DC can't?

Its not because its special so no. Its more of "this is a limited time release, and releasing it year after year loses the core nature of this breed... LIMITED TIME RELEASE! HM prizes seem not to exist anymore; and even then. They won a prize, and if they wanted a CB holiday, then its their prize. If they released in the cave, its not really due to a person "winning". Slightly different circumstances IMO.

 

~~~~

Stemming from all this and "keeping the breeding pool" At most i would like to see a release every 10 years. But that time, many users have gone inactive, so re-releasing it every 10 years will keep it fresh, allow users who missed to collect them and at the same time, retain some form of a "special status". If that happened, I would kind of support the idea; as it still lets the long term users have something a little special, and give new players/those who missed them a chance to collect them in the future.

[Pokemonfan13]

BTW, I literally have every holiday as CB except heartstealers (because I was working valentines day selling flowers and was so exhausted that I couldn't even think of dragons), and I support the ability to get new CB holidays in some reasonable way. I would love a second CB holly, and I froze one of my CBs each time back when it was "you will only have two, ever". I also didn't focus as much as I should have on getting extra CB Halloweens, because why would I ever want more? I -have- them, but looking at my collection now, it is not complete. I especially regret missing the heartstealers.

 

I know that for me to have the ability to fill out my holiday collection properly, it means other people get that same chance. And honestly, I don't care if it devalues my CB holly forever. I would rather other people have the ability to build their own lineages with them.

 

 

A "not every year" release might be interesting, but something more like five year intervals would be more fair. I would hope that it would happen on the week before or after the breeding week so that it is in addition to instead of replacing it. Because if the CBs were released very specially at the same time as the breeding week, that breeding week isn't really going to happen, not really. Too many people will be entirely filling their slots with CBs that they won't see for another X years. Have it the week before (with their breeding dates locked until after breeding week is over) and then breeding week can be almost normal.

 

Maybe an alternate version, each year releases an individual holiday as CB, so it's a three year wait to get winter holidays if you just missed them, but there's halloweens and valentines to collect in the meantime.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Pokemonfan13

[Dragon_Arbock]

BTW, I literally have every holiday as CB except heartstealers (because I was working valentines day selling flowers and was so exhausted that I couldn't even think of dragons), and I support the ability to get new CB holidays in some reasonable way. I would love a second CB holly, and I froze one of my CBs each time back when it was "you will only have two, ever". I also didn't focus as much as I should have on getting extra CB Halloweens, because why would I ever want more? I -have- them, but looking at my collection now, it is not complete. I especially regret missing the heartstealers.

 

I know that for me to have the ability to fill out my holiday collection properly, it means other people get that same chance. And honestly, I don't care if it devalues my CB holly forever. I would rather other people have the ability to build their own lineages with them.

I did the same thing with Sweetlings, Rosebuds, Heartseekers, Ribbon Dancers, Snow Angels, Magis, and Wrapper-Wings- I only have one CB adult of each due to also having a frozen. I also only have one CB Aransi but that was because I missed them and somebody was nice enough to give me one.

But that is very true.. when we could only have two ever, those of us who cared about also having a complete as possible frozen hatchling collection now have half as many CBs for lineages. Back then would not have been a problem since you could only have two ever, but now that you can have as many as you want, it's limiting.

[Paradisiske]

bumping this as valentines is coming

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I would really love to see this as Hollies are very popular and they're very hard to grab in the AP. Even then, all I ever manage to catch are messy lineages :/