Holiday Rereleases

[Predat0rs]

We definitely need more CB Hollies running around. With active owners. I missed A LOT of Holidays and wish I could own CBs of them. I know the store isn't our only option, but implementing it would solve A LOT of problems and suggestions that have been floating around for ages.

[VixenDra]

I've recently joined another adoptable site, Tales od Ostlea, and although their release of holiday CBs is also a one in a lifetime thing, they DO have means for new players to get CBs of everything(exept for hybrids and spriter's alts that is), which is actually keeping me play the game at all, the first thing I tried to check is if it puts newer players in such a disadvantage as DC - and it doesn't... There is a store and these past holiday creatures are available there during the respectful holiday period for a money-based currency (for site donations) which btw, not only can be obtained as a reward for participatign in events, it can be also obtained from other players (for a certain amount of the regular in-game curreny)! not to mention people can sell their dragons for the ingame currency (e.g. I just got an adult CB Halloween dragon 2016 from another player - after playing hard to collect enough of the currency.) Meaning I can possibly get ALL them CBs without investing irl money in it at all, it'll just take me much longer than if I was there ever since the site launched, but there I finally feel it's somehow fair, compared to DC, because I AM able to finally catch up by time. I prefer DC only for the fact things would hatch on their own (without active clicking) AND mostly because DC is limited to dragons and Tales of Ostlea is about any animals and oddities... and they have a strange lineage view (showing only the parents as if each generation was a 2gen and I've found no means to see the lineage as a whole).

DC should also work out on some way for newer players to obtain CBs of everything other players could get as CBs.

Our DC idea for the store/trader's canyon is pretty much it. ToO is based on active clicking as the basics of the gameplay, so their store and stuff works as they do, DC is about raising, breeding and such, so the way people think about the DC store is very accurate and what I believe would be a pretty good sollution as it also requires active playing of the game in its regular way (grab, rise, breed etc. for DC).

 

And why on Earth should Hollies be so 'special' to the point of extinction of still bred CBs? If you look at the thread about making CB Prizes available for everyone, you'll have all the arguments against a tiny group of people able to forever rule the entire market with such little effort as breeding a 2g takes... CB Holly owners are in fact part of that group, their 2gens are even more sought after... which is kind of ruining the trade market... nearly everyone who grabbed that CB Gold or made ND etc. and puts it for trade wants a 2gen Prize or a 2gen Holly and refuses to take anything else... Short term advantage is acceptable but a forever advanage just because you discovered the game sooner (right now even Prizes belong here... it's bot both blind luck of a raffle AND the fact of findign the game sooner since right now noone can get a CB Prize anymore)? Nope... it's beyond unfair, and sorry, but games make sense only if they're as fair as possible for the type of a game, what's the point of a game if you're a forever winner/looserto everyone who joined after/before you? They should be able to reach your level or even beat you after some time if they play actively enough. DC is not a game of skill where you can only win if you're the best of the best, it's a game of patience where you can also cooperate with other players to get stuff your skill, device or luck doesn't let you get and in a sense it's a game of completion (collect all the sprites, collect the X type of lineages etc. depending on what goal you have; when new stuff comes you also try to complete the new stuff etc.) which, if you can't complete, makes hardly any sense... I still play DC because I hope it WILL improve someday, e.g. that the limit of GoNs will rise someday so I can finally get the set of 5 sprites I need to complete my goal... Right now ToO is much better (despite I dont' really like how much clicking it requires, all the rest is much more better) to me and stole my attention from DC - omg I just hope I won't miss the Valentine's event here now O_o

 

And DC, in oppotite to the other site, is all about lineages... and if you don't own CBs you're very limited on how you build your lineages... e.g you can't build a stairstep with CB Hollies(which is also a problem of the limits but still, the primary thing that makes that impossible is no means to get ANY CBs of these)... or CB Pumpkins if you weren't there to grab them at all... if your only CB Holly refuses your only CB Valentine09 Gold Shimmer, you very likely won't probably find anyone able to breed that for you even if you offered a hunderd of CB Golds... In a few more years you may find new players too discouraged to play, if they see they are to remain in a forever disadvantage to the very few old players who had a chance to have it all... I'm still here mostly because of 1. them dragons, and 2. I've dedicated so much time and effort to DC so far it wold hurt to waste it now, so I kind of feel obligued to stay and play... so ofc I'd like DC to be as good as I can think it could be... Or I'd just leave.

 

Badges ARE what makes your scroll special if you're an older and dedicated player. I will never have that beautiful Valentine's dragon badge... The date your CB was caught on is what makes it special either. None of the newer players would ever have a Valentine 09 from 2009 anymore! And since the dates are forever displayign on the Dragon's page, it IS a thing. It's more than enough...

Elitist attitudes, that also happen to be willing to deny/take things away from the others (which refusing new players to EVER get all CBs you could IS) will always meet my very negative attitude.

It's enough life is unfair, you don't need an adoptable game to remind you of that constantly... people play games to escape reality you know...

 

 

and btw I don't think I'd personally even use this myself! (because my goals also involve massive progenies, so I doubt I'd rather have 100% dragon pairs CB at the cost of years of weekly or yearly breeding... ofc I can change here but for now, I support the rereleases of CBs and some way for CB Prizes to be obtainable for all players just because I simply strongly believe it's better for the game and the playerbase as a whole/unit)

Edited February 9, 2017 by VixenDra

[cindyw]

This is a good idea to me. I was just thinking I wish there was a way I could get CBs of the Valentine and Christmas eggs I don't have.

[Jazeki]

If this were ever going to be an actual thing, V-day would be a good time to start due to the 2 breed limit. I could catch my CB Val '09 dragons and my one CB Sweetling in the week of breeding leading up to Valentine's Day and be good to go. Le sigh~

[aussieJJDude]

Yes, I'm an Elitist because I don't support the idea, VixenDra... Petty naming isn't the whole idea of discussion, its to discuss the topic at hand.

Regardless, holidays are "limited time releases"... Re-releasing them kinda is the opposite of limited time, do you have to agree?

 

If the only thing that DC needs to "improve on" is to release past holidays, isn't that a great indication that DC is a great site?

 

CB Holly refuses your only CB Valentine09 you very likely won't probably find anyone able to breed that for you even if you offered a hunderd of CB Golds

Even though I don't want to shoot myself in the foot, I personally think it is easy to get a 2G val from that pairing... And if it does refuse, you easily can replace it by asking for it - either breeding your holly or val09 with something else and asking for it.... So, your point is....?

 

Badges ARE what makes your scroll special if you're an older and dedicated player. I will never have that beautiful Valentine's dragon badge... The date your CB was caught on is what makes it special either. None of the newer players would ever have a Valentine 09 from 2009 anymore! And since the dates are forever displayign on the Dragon's page, it IS a thing. It's more than enough...

- Badges... I honestly never look at them, so for me they nothing. If anything, I prefer if you could have an option of displaying badges, as for me they just another addition for my bandwidth.

- date, important... but who cares when you have the CB, you know that it was on that date...

I'll never have a val09 from 2009, but easily can get a 2G from the AP page. And if they are a CB, dates aren't important. Its nice, but who cares. I can ignore this site for years and come back and collect all the holidays that I missed, whats the point in that? Something like holiday dragon eggs (CB) don't die, but continue to take up your slots until they hatch would be nice, or even they don't get sick so if you have something major, you can collect, either add to hatchies right away and once your back, a full grown dragon or hatchie... or you have an egg just sitting there, waiting to be added to a hatchie site.... All you have to do is spend a few minutes collecting and then you can come back once things are settled.

Edited February 8, 2017 by aussieJJDude

[Sir Barton]

Just pointing out that a CB Holly can't refuse a CB Val since refusals are turned off during the holidays.

 

....Carry on.

[VixenDra]

"Elitist" is not calling names I believe, it's how such attitude is named in general, I copied this from other threads. I'm only (trying to) name things by their name... If it's an insult to you then, well, it also means sth, doesn't it? Perhaps, deep inside, you can feel it's not a good thing to be so...

 

And DC is lacking MUCH more... I'm just limiting it to the topic of this thread.

 

If you can't value what you have for what it is and seek for other means of the mean kind of exclusivity, well, I don't think it means it's fair newer players are punished for it... Just because YOU don't care for what exclusive you shall have... And you'd be surprised, I've seen not that few of trade offers asking for the parent to be caught on a certain date... it's true for e.g. the Prizes... some underline they want a 2g from the first round's year... I bet whis would become also true for the Holidays if CBs are made available in later dates.. But people here value different things ofc, e.g. some won't care and value a messy more than a CB.

I'm myself fine with my 2g pairs, it's not even about me... Just because I won't value the past CBs I don't have(well, I will even release my seconds of CBs sooner or later!), doesn't mean I shall be willing to refuse a chance at them to others... And in a game which is almost all about lineages, CBs are a fundamental thing... Ofc not all will be interested in using them, it's never 100% of userbase about naything^^

You admitted yourself, lineages DO matter, and just because you (and I as well) might not need to own the CBs for our goal/s, it doesn't mean others don't and shall never even have a chance at them. And you said you can always grab a 2g? - Not to mention from the mate you need/want... - In a few years you'll have serious trouble to do so because less and less CBs of the oldest breeds will be bred due to oldest players gradually go inactive (or even dead). And just because you prefer the higher gens doesn't mean others do too. It's pretty obvious that majority who cares about lineages at all, seek for the lowest gens they can get, meaning CBs and 2gens if they can't get CBs... E.g. I had trouble getting 2 2g PB Pumpkins(majoriy didn't have MF), 2 matching stairs of Hollies (omg, by a miracle I've found 2x 4g opposite stairs with Silvers to get this: https://dragcave.net/lineage/cn46i whie I simply looked for a pair that would build any gen arrowhead with just 1 breed in the middle... and I remember I traded 3 stair Hollies for them), 2x 2g Val09 x Heartseeker or same for Yulebuck x Solstice... Not to mention the pairings from oldest breeds actually costed... I'll probably never need this again, but it showed me a bit...

Holiday lineages take AGES to build... and any of the CB owners can kill their CB (either the Holiday or its mate) and ruin your lineage. The less CBs of the given lineage you own, the higher chance of this to happen since there are more people owning the first line. And plenty of people DO consider a dead ancestor to be ruining of the lineage, me included.

I will be always against putting a newer player in a GAME-bound disadvantage if the newer player can't ever overcome it (e.g. in ToS a newer player can't get past holidays from biomes BUT they can still catch up and get the past CBs of everything if they work hard and long... and that game is not even about lineages... yet it does offer means to obtain all CBs while DC, a game ABOUT lineages, doesn't... it's a huge flaw).

Badges DO provide an exclusivity for the older players and the very thing which is good about them is the very fact they do not affect the GAME itself! If you want a GAME influencing thing to be exclusive then I'm sorry, but I WILL oppose you on it^^; No matter my own interest, it's just... unfair, and when a game is so unfair about such a game-influencing thing, it can't be a good game...

 

Anyway, I came here just to correct one detail in my post, so I'll just stop(I responded to what I remembered without checking back)...:

 

 

Just pointing out that a CB Holly can't refuse a CB Val since refusals are turned off during the holidays.

 

....Carry on.

fixed:

if your only CB Holly refuses your only CB Valentine09 Gold Shimmer, you very likely won't probably find anyone able to breed that for you even if you offered a hunderd of CB Golds...

Edited February 9, 2017 by VixenDra

[legofrodo12]

Okay. So I haven't read all of this thread yet, and I'm sorry if I've missed something.

 

The major issue seems to be trading CBs for multi-clutching. But, if we take a look at Halloween 2016, with SO MANY EGGS EVERYWHERE, is that such a bad thing? There were almost too many eggs floating around that people couldn't grab, because they were already full. And let's not forget the hatchie wall of Cavern Lurkers. I remember seeing a thread for reducing the number of eggs in a multi-clutch shortly after Halloween for that very reason.

 

I support this idea, three years after a release, CBs become available in-cave. I am really torn over a limit for Halloweens. I see benefits to both sides. Unlimited, it sticks more to the spirit of the holiday, but with limited, that lets people focus more on making pretty lineages. And of course, two CBs for Valentine's/Christmas. Bringing in more CBs will also give people a chance to create pretty lineages, without inbreeding. There are so many people with CB Hollies/Pumpkins that have gone inactive over the years, it makes it really hard to make a long-lined lineage without inbreeding.

 

Also, I don't know if this has been discussed yet (like I said, haven't read the whole thread) but I think the CB Hollies should be male-only, as they were originally.

[Fuzzbucket]

NOT OK with giving up multiclutches. There are already people who want to control EVERY EGG THEY GET from one, so that they can use them for trade. Multiclutches are the surefire way that new members can be certain of getting holiday eggs from past holidays.

[olympe]

NOT OK with giving up multiclutches. There are already people who want to control EVERY EGG THEY GET from one, so that they can use them for trade. Multiclutches are the surefire way that new members can be certain of getting holiday eggs from past holidays.

Ditto. I might be convinced to reduce multi-clutches by one egg, with a guaranteed minimum of one egg per clutch. Or, alternately, a guarantee of a two-egg clutch for every holiday breeding - no more, no less.

 

Doing away with multi-clutching entirely, however, is not the solution. (Heck, it just might work for unlimited Halloween dragons, but most definitely not for the other two kinds of holidays.)

 

Another thing, which TJ would know better than me, is CB limits for Winter Holiday and Valentine breeds. Will these limits stay in place, or not?

[blockEdragon]

Why can't we just keep multiclutches anyway? Holidays are supposed to be fun and specail right?

 

So why can't they just multiclutch anyway?,

It's not like they are breeding holiday eggs weekly and Celestials where special enough to multiclutch despite just being normal cave dragons.

And they breed MONTHLY, holidays have to wait a YEAR to breed.

 

I'm seriously curious as to why we have to give up one to have the other.

Edited February 9, 2017 by blockEdragon

[Paradisiske]

Why can't we just keep multiclutches anyway? Holidays are supposed to be fun and specail right?

 

So why can't they just multiclutch anyway?,

It's not like they are breeding holiday eggs weekly and Celestials where special enough to multiclutch despite just being normal cave dragons.

And they breed MONTHLY, holidays have to wait a YEAR to breed.

 

I'm seriously curious as to why we have to give up one to have the other.

i agree with this

 

and if its about oh but some holiday eggs wont get picked up in time and die

 

 

non holiday eggs are already dying behind the holiday wall

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't believe holiday eggs ever end up dying.

[olympe]

Not yet, but last Halloween got really close. This year or next year at the latest it will happen because we won't be able to hatch them fast enough (unless we hatch, abandon, repeat - and then wait to snag the hatchlings).

[blockEdragon]

Oh well, Id trade a few dead eggs that no one owned for new cave-born holidays in the game, and that's only in theory there is no guaranteed dead holidays unless the users choose to let them die.

 

And so what if a few do? the cave won't implode after X amount of eggs die or anything.

Edited February 9, 2017 by blockEdragon

[Jazeki]

Why can't we just keep multiclutches anyway? Holidays are supposed to be fun and specail right?

 

So why can't they just multiclutch anyway?,

It's not like they are breeding holiday eggs weekly and Celestials where special enough to multiclutch despite just being normal cave dragons.

And they breed MONTHLY, holidays have to wait a YEAR to breed.

 

I'm seriously curious as to why we have to give up one to have the other.

This is a good point. But it's important to remember that TJ noted that stipulation long before Celestials were released. Maybe he's changed his mind.

 

If multiclutches get reduced, I'd like to see a one egg minimum for a single breed (i.e. sweetling from marrow) or a two egg minimum for two breeds (i.e. sweetling and arsani from a sweetling/arsani pairing) that are able to breed during their respective holiday seasons.

[Pokemonfan13]

The problem is, it's only Halloween that has that problem. It would make sense to limit Halloween multicluches to two or no multiclutch simply because it's a different beast. There are just so many Halloweens out there from the initial no limit grab and then the extra growth from having more dragons to begin with. They're the only ones that reach absurdly low time before the eggs are cleaned out. (I don't remember how low xmas got, but they were still influencible when they finished)

 

I hope with the other two it would still give at least two eggs per breeding, even if it's always a two multiclutch.

[Jazeki]

That's true. Two egg minimum clutches would probably be best if we absolutely had to trade them for access to CBs.

[Predat0rs]

NOT OK with giving up multiclutches. There are already people who want to control EVERY EGG THEY GET from one, so that they can use them for trade. Multiclutches are the surefire way that new members can be certain of getting holiday eggs from past holidays.

Exactly; which is why I've had CB Prize owners turn down my request for Celestial mates. Giving up multiclutches would really suck. I want them to stay.

Edited February 10, 2017 by predatorfan4ever

[blockEdragon]

Exactly; which is why I've had CB Prize owners turn down my request for Celestial mates. Giving up multiclutches would really suck. I want them to stay.

Yea I also just want multi-clutches to be left alone.

[VixenDra]

I'm fine with giving up multiclutches ONLY IF holidays could breed year-round then (either just like that, or once a month or under influence of a store potion, doesn't matter to me as long as it's there somehow), otherwise a strong NO,

this time for personal reasons, I won't lie - I need 3 (4 in case of single genders) frozens from my very pairs, with multiclutches I can hope to reduce the breeding time from 3 or 4 years to about 2 (even to 1 in case of my Holly pair!Ovo) - because quite a few players out there can be really nice and react to the parents asking for the egg to be traded back(and vast majority of these returns for free), and I won't be ok with giving up the only way to shorten that riddiculus time frame if there's no other to replace it.

Honestly I'd much rather have them breed all year round over the multiclutches, but I BADLY need at least 1 of these 2 to be there. If the year-round won't be a thing, I'll be devastated if the multiclutches were gone:( 4 bloody years.. actually at least 5 in case of the winter holidays for they don't alternate MFMFMF but go MMFFMMFFMM and e.g. my Aegis couldn't be bred in 2016 and waits for the female of 2017 or 2018 (depending on if the '17 fits better to Aegis or Snow)... please don't wish me to suffer so much... It's frustrating enough already...

 

Well, multiclutches were supposed to make people share, right? But sb above said these are for newer players to get the Holiday sprites... well, but think about, if CBs were made available, the newer players would NOT need these AP eggs so badly just to get the sprites... they'd have an alternative! (and a better one actually, CBs are always good to have)

 

Also, for those players who feel they deserve some great excusivity and perks newer shall not have (and they disdain of their badges and special dates of their CBs), a compromise could be that the re-release resets your CB limits... so if you grabbed 2 Valentine 09s in the past you can now grab 2 CBs again, and a player who wasn't there to catch them in 2009 would be limited to 2 CBs too, but would be still in a disadvantage to the older players who could have up to 4 CBs total now.

E.g. I could grab 2 more Radiant Angels and end up with up to 4 CB RAs total(because I have 2 CB RAs now), while I could grab 2 Heartseekers and end up with up to 2 CB Heartseekers because I wasn't there to grab the initial 2 CBs.

Shortly, limits reset for the re-releases.

Idk how about Halloweens then but if the above is acceptable, it is a good start. Actually I think 2 out of 3 houlday types having this is leaving old players special enough and htey dont' need Halloweens there too...

Edited February 10, 2017 by VixenDra

[Dragon_Arbock]

If Halloween is really that big of an issue, I'd say if it gets too the point where there's a certain high number of eggs sitting in the AP, then limit all breeding after that point to two eggs, but don't get rid of multiclutches entirely. I like being able to find cool lineages without trading an arm and a leg for them, but that's just me, maybe.

 

As for CBs themselves returning, I've said it before but I do do think it's a good idea, and it's needed. Not only are the populations of the first few years of CB rather small, lots of the owners are also inactive, making even trading for second gens hard. Anything that increases the breeding population is cool by me, and also a chance to obtain them again is more fair to new players.

[olympe]

If Halloween is really that big of an issue, I'd say if it gets too the point where there's a certain high number of eggs sitting in the AP, then limit all breeding after that point to two eggs, but don't get rid of multiclutches entirely. I like being able to find cool lineages without trading an arm and a leg for them, but that's just me, maybe.

 

As for CBs themselves returning, I've said it before but I do do think it's a good idea, and it's needed. Not only are the populations of the first few years of CB rather small, lots of the owners are also inactive, making even trading for second gens hard. Anything that increases the breeding population is cool by me, and also a chance to obtain them again is more fair to new players.

This, too. Of course, an extra batch of CBs probably would be preferable, but in the end, there's only so many CBs you can keep, and so many more of the bred variety...

[SullenCat]

That's true. Two egg minimum clutches would probably be best if we absolutely had to trade them for access to CBs.

What she said. I would prefer three egg minimum clutches right now (but two would be acceptable) if we could get CBs. On the long run, and I mean a couple of years, if there's access to CBs, two eggs minimum clutches sound quite reasonable.

[LadyShadowHeart]

I agree that multiclutches are nice at times (for example, during Christmas and V-Day when CBs are sparse), but are they really necessary for Halloween? There are people who can easily get 100 CB Halloweens each year. 2/3 eggs from each of the multiclutches produced by those dragons go to the AP. If having more than 1 egg from a certain Halloween is such an issue, why not breed two exact pairs (example: two CB male Caligenes x Reds = 2 2G Caligenes to keep/trade)? Yes, some people don't have enough dragons for this, but how many people need to trade 2Gs anyway? The AP is full of them.

 

Christmas and Valentine's are a completely different story.

 

As for this:

I could grab 2 more Radiant Angels and end up with up to 4 CB RAs total(because I have 2 CB RAs now), while I could grab 2 Heartseekers and end up with up to 2 CB Heartseekers because I wasn't there to grab the initial 2 CBs.

No. One of the points for bringing CBs back is fairness. The people who feel the need to be "special," as you mentioned, will just have to be happy with what they have. What's wrong with users who already have their 2 not being able to catch more? New CBs will bring more offspring into the pool anyway.

Just my thoughts

Edited February 12, 2017 by Shadowgirl123