Increase the raffle winners pool

[AnanoKimi]

The problem isn't that they are only trading with other Prize owners, its that they are trying to do so in every single one of the trading threads that allows for it. I would really like to see posts where the "want" is ONLY Prize dragons in its own thread, and have it not allowed in any other threads.

 

That way, those of us who are trying to find people who will accept something other than low gen Prizes actually can, and we don't have to look at those offers that only a tiny percentage of the userbase can hope to satisfy.

 

Cheers!

C4.

That would work. I think the only other place than in their own thread that they should maybe be allowed would be the rare trading thread. But I agree that in the other generalized trade threads they should not be allowed.

[cyradis4]

That would work. I think the only other place than in their own thread that they should maybe be allowed would be the rare trading thread. But I agree that in the other generalized trade threads they should not be allowed.

Not even in Rare Trading, *unless* they are *also* asking for something non-Prize.

 

If they are also willing to accept something non-Prize, then they can post that they are also looking for prizes, I'd say. I think that'd be fair.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[olympe]

Oh, it's really nice of you to agree to at least that much. But guess what? Someone else will start an outcry. Because we evil losers are trying to throw the poor, pestered, overly demonized winners out of a thread. It wouldn't be fair to ostracize prize trading that way, would it?

 

At least that's the case with pretty much every suggestion that would do anything but benefit prize winners: Some say they would be okay with it - and next thing you know, some others start about how wrong this suggestion is.

[JavaTigress]

Oh, it's really nice of you to agree to at least that much. But guess what? Someone else will start an outcry. Because we evil losers are trying to throw the poor, pestered, overly demonized winners out of a thread. It wouldn't be fair to ostracize prize trading that way, would it?

 

At least that's the case with pretty much every suggestion that would do anything but benefit prize winners: Some say they would be okay with it - and next thing you know, some others start about how wrong this suggestion is.

I am not sure I see how making a special thread for them to trade... and perhaps gift, too... their dragons in would harm them in any way?

It isn't like they would be prohibited from trading their dragons.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Silverswift

[LibbyLishly]

Oh, it's really nice of you to agree to at least that much. But guess what? Someone else will start an outcry. Because we evil losers are trying to throw the poor, pestered, overly demonized winners out of a thread. It wouldn't be fair to ostracize prize trading that way, would it?

 

At least that's the case with pretty much every suggestion that would do anything but benefit prize winners: Some say they would be okay with it - and next thing you know, some others start about how wrong this suggestion is.

It would probably help if so many of the people who post in those suggestion threads didn't sound so bitter about 1. The fact that they haven't won a raffle prize and 2. What they perceive as bad behavior on the part of the prize winners.

 

I'm not necessarily talking about you specifically. But I've noticed that these threads get very heated and poisonous very fast and stay that way.

 

I definitely don't think that increasing the pool would eliminate drama. It might help soothe a few ruffled feathers. But I don't think we'll really see a change in the overall attitude of those few bad apples in the bowl of non-winners.

[JavaTigress]

It would probably help if so many of the people who post in those suggestion threads didn't sound so bitter about 1. The fact that they haven't won a raffle prize and 2. What they perceive as bad behavior on the part of the prize winners.

 

I'm not necessarily talking about you specifically. But I've noticed that these threads get very heated and poisonous very fast and stay that way.

 

I definitely don't think that increasing the pool would eliminate drama. It might help soothe a few ruffled feathers. But I don't think we'll really see a change in the overall attitude of those few bad apples in the bowl of non-winners.

True, but for the rest of us, I think soothing those ruffled feathers is worthwhile.

 

Because here is a good thing to remember... the decent non-winners don't like the drama from the bad apples, either.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Silverswift

[LibbyLishly]

True, but for the rest of us, I think soothing those ruffled feathers is worthwhile.

Earlier in this thread, I said I supported this suggestion, and that hasn't changed, because I'm all for more chances to win. Don't read non-support into my words, because it isn't there. I just don't think that the purported goal - general drama-elimination - will be achieved through it.

[Alexiel Dragoness]

I think the only way to solve ALL the drama around prizes is to make them unbreedable. So they are similar to a badge, that's all. No more trading drama. People who get them keep them as a gift of the raffle, but that's it. No breeding, no drama.

[JavaTigress]

@ Alexial Dragoness- Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

 

IF anything making prizes unbreedables would INCREASE The drama because THEN they would be ENTIRELY unobtainable to anyone that didn't win one. So no support for THAT from me.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Silverswift

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think the only way to solve ALL the drama around prizes is to make them unbreedable. So they are similar to a badge, that's all. No more trading drama. People who get them keep them as a gift of the raffle, but that's it. No breeding, no drama.

Oh, yes, because exclusive sprites never cause drama...

[_Sin_]

Not even in Rare Trading, *unless* they are *also* asking for something non-Prize.

 

If they are also willing to accept something non-Prize, then they can post that they are also looking for prizes, I'd say. I think that'd be fair.

 

Cheers!

C4.

Probably I'm I'm being dense but I can't see what would stop them from posting that they accept something else and, in fact, accept only prizes. Just wondering...

 

Edit:

Is there any reason why a topic couldn't be started for people that would want to request 2015 2nd gen Prizes? No, I'm not volunteering, purely curious.

Edited January 8, 2015 by _Sin_

[AnanoKimi]

Not even in Rare Trading, *unless* they are *also* asking for something non-Prize.

 

If they are also willing to accept something non-Prize, then they can post that they are also looking for prizes, I'd say. I think that'd be fair.

 

Cheers!

C4.

That totally works. It wouls make blood swapping for some Prize owners of CB or low gens to trade for those and for those looking to obtain prize dragons to offer there. I am completely towards this since it would add to the organization of trade threads which benefits everyone in the long run.

 

At least that's the case with pretty much every suggestion that would do anything but benefit prize winners: Some say they would be okay with it - and next thing you know, some others start about how wrong this suggestion is.

 

Because there is so much opposition for improving breeding rations, upping winner numbers, Boost BSA to improve shiny odds, Multiclutching BSA to share the love in the AP. Yes, that benefits only Prize owners. No one else would benefit from all that but prize owners. ;P

 

I definitely don't think that increasing the pool would eliminate drama. It might help soothe a few ruffled feathers. But I don't think we'll really see a change in the overall attitude of those few bad apples in the bowl of non-winners.

 

It wont eliminate it but it will help in many of the aspects that many of us are having issues with so that will be one step forward in terms of that. Any step that takes us forward towards a slightly happier DC is worth while. Many bad apples like the ones who have posted here and on many other threads will forever exist because unless they have something nice or nicer, its not fair, but with some more advancements I think a number of things can be fixed.

 

Probably I'm I'm being dense but I can't see what would stop them from posting that they accept something else and, in fact, accept only prizes. Just wondering...

 

Edit:

Is there any reason why a topic couldn't be started for people that would want to request 2015 2nd gen Prizes? No, I'm not volunteering, purely curious.

 

Thread mods would see and report those that dont belong and have them deleted by forum mods.

 

Also that can be a thing. I would gladly start that thread.

Edited January 8, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[DarkEternity]

What about this.

Every week the number of dragons raised and trades completed contributes to a global mana bar. When the number raised hits a certain number everyone which contributed to the bar is RNG'd and the winners with a spare slot open are selected for a random prize.

 

In this scenario distribution would be based on the relative activity of the userbase. It avoids having to send out emails and things too.

[Alexiel Dragoness]

@ Alexial Dragoness- Sorry but I respectfully disagree.

 

IF anything making prizes unbreedables would INCREASE The drama because THEN they would be ENTIRELY unobtainable to anyone that didn't win one. So no support for THAT from me.

If may I add, it would also make prizes WORTHLESS. What would you do with a dragon that can't breed? It's like the little trees. You have one, it's cute, you look at it once or twice a year, but certainly you don't think much about it. You spend most of your DC time breeding your breedable dragons and do lineages. The winner would obtain it, yes, they would have an unique dragon, yes, but they would be powerless and the "elite" people are talking about will just end.

 

They should have been unobtainable since the beginning; they are a prize from a raffle. Just like a normal, real life raffle, the winner gets it, and that's all.

[lightningsky]

I feel like the only way to eliminate the drama is making becoming a Prize winner not a rare event. If at least 1/4 or 25% of the active users who entered in the raffle were drawn, every year, at least then people would keep coming back the next Xmas because you know you have at least a quarter of a chance of winning. Eventually everyone who is diligent enough would win, well of course, unless you are just that super-unlucky. (Which would be my luck)

 

Plus CB Prizes wouldn't be rare, if CB owners were to leave, there would be a ton more to fill their gap. 2Gs have a chance of being spread more...(hopefully). More Prizes to make lineages and also the fact that since it wouldn't be too rare of an event to win, people could absolutely win more than one Prize. I think even Prize winners might like that? Except the few from these past years who would disagree with their whole soul against this suggestion, because their CB Prizes are super special to them because they are so rare. Well yeah...but you could win more!

 

Of course this suggestion I thought of RANDOMLY will never be put in place because the whole reason for the CB Prizes are that they are super-special-rare status and not everyone is meant to win one even if they spent their whole life on DC.

 

I dunno. :<

 

I wish a lot of other people could win. And if you didn't, and the win rate isn't that hard to beat, that you'd come into the next Xmas event thinking This might be my year! At least that's what I would be thinking.

 

I'm gonna hide now.

[AnanoKimi]

If may I add, it would also make prizes WORTHLESS. What would you do with a dragon that can't breed? It's like the little trees. You have one, it's cute, you look at it once or twice a year, but certainly you don't think much about it. You spend most of your DC time breeding your breedable dragons and do lineages. The winner would obtain it, yes, they would have an unique dragon, yes, but they would be powerless and the "elite" people are talking about will just end.

 

They should have been unobtainable since the beginning; they are a prize from a raffle. Just like a normal, real life raffle, the winner gets it, and that's all.

Some people place value on the sprites considering how obtainable they are in order to complete a scroll. someone posted here that as long as they can get one of ecah sprite ragardless of gen they are happy so making the dragons unbreedable means drama from collectors who wont get to collect the sprites that only prize winners will be able to have.

 

Yes they wont be worth anything in the market, but then you are depriving users of a dragon that will NEVER be obtainable. at least now they can be obtained with a little patience and effort. with this suggestion, no one but the one who won it can have it. Thats opening a completely different can of worms.

 

[EDIT]

If you dont believe me, look for threads about frills and old pinks. Those are discontinued and no longer breed true. there are thread begging, demanding, fighting to make them breed true again. You re suggesting something similar to what has happened with those dragons, and those were common dragons. now think of the pandemic this would cause for a rare dragon.

Edited January 8, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Syphoneira]

You're right, it isn't. The problem is that these posts (Have: 2nd gen prize. Want: better/newer/higher-rated 2nd gen prize. No other offers.) turning up in the trading section on a regular basis kind of rub everybody's nose in it: This is a winner. Only trading with another winner. Losers lose out - again. It's not the problem that people can do what they want with their dragons, but that some winners kind of declare themselves as an elite among DC players this way. At least that is what it looks like. And I doubt people really like elitism (unless they're part of the elite, that is). And many of the early 2nd/3rd gen owners aren't any better, either. (Have: 3rd gen bronze 2015 prize. Want: 2nd or 3rd gen 2015 prize. No other offers. Or: Want: 4+ CB golds (please PM), 2nd gen Thuwed IOU (with proof that you're on a list), etc.)

 

 

 

Actually, I'm not sure how anyone could be scammed through Teleport, where lineages are visible and you can see what you get on a trade link - so I'd really like to know how this works, pretty-please? so as not to get scammed myself.

 

 

 

People swapping for other lines are likely increasing their breeding pool and will probably be breeding those dragons as well.

 

So, assuming that they gift or trade, some of those lines will appear, just the same as if anyone else had them.

 

Of course, I speak as one who couldn't put together an offer for a 2nd gen, so that's easy for me to say...

 

 

Hi, Silverswift!

 

We're going to see lots of trades we can't participate in, because we don't have what the trader is looking for, just as a lot of people may be looking at ours without having what WE may happen to need at that time.

 

If we had a higher level of CBs/2nd gens, there would likely be more people trading for CB hatchies or whatever we might be able to supply at that point in time, but honestly, for most specific trades, most of us are not going to have whatever is being asked for at that particular moment, no matter what it is.

 

This is only viewed as a problem because of the extreme scarcity, and people trading for bloodswaps of 2nd gens have to advertise like anyone else, rather than sending the chauffeur around with a case of champagne to make discreet enquiries.

 

 

 

Personally, I hate only being able to post in one thread - once that's buried, that's it until the next day...

[_Sin_]

I've been adding suggestions to the OP, if I'm missing specific ones please let me know.

 

Also that can be a thing. I would gladly start that thread.

Hey I'm all for someone else volunteering, go ahead :-)

[purplehaze]

Thread mods would see and report those that dont belong and have them deleted by forum mods.

 

Also that can be a thing. I would gladly start that thread.

Thread mods would have no way of knowing if they were only saying that they would accept other offers, but in fact were only looking for prizes, which is what I think _Sin_ meant. But I don't really think that would be that much of a problem. If they had their own thread to make their trades in I think they would have more luck getting offers they wanted without a bunch of lower offers if they stuck to that thread. Or maybe I am being naive?

 

And I don't think just having you start that thread would do much by itself. It would need cooperation from the mods of the other trade threads to make clear that there would be no such trades allowed in those other threads. It would also need the cooperation of the DC forum mods, I think. With all that in place it might help somewhat.

 

But that is all off topic, actually.

 

I do think that increasing the number of prizes awarded would help somewhat in balancing the trade market and relieving some of the pressure on the winners. I think at least doubling the number awarded over the number from last year and giving out an equal number of HMs would not be too much.

 

I am beginning to fall in the camp of those who wish the raffle had never begun because of its effect on the trade market, but it is a thing now and stopping it would only increase the problems and make prize dragons even more exclusive than they already are. So I think increasing the number of CB prizes out there so that the values drop a bit is the only way to make things better.

 

I have a second gen Shimmer and I have to say she has not been a money-printing machine for me. The few Shimmer eggs I have gotten from her have either been gifted or have not brought me much in trade. And Shimmerkins from her are worthless -- I can hardly give them away! I would love to have a second gen Shimmerkin to breed her with, but the one I was very kindly gifted was met with a refusal from her! I have never asked a winner for a Shimmer egg. I did PM two winners asking about Shimmerkins, one of whom said in her sig that her list was open and both of which were recommended to me by other players -- neither ever bothered to answer, so I guess my PMs were not welcome and I will not try any others.

[AnanoKimi]

I've been adding suggestions to the OP, if I'm missing specific ones please let me know.

 

 

Hey I'm all for someone else volunteering, go ahead :-)

I'll look a mod and voice the idea see if they think its ok and see what I can do. I would like to see a thread for prize only trades either wants or have. This would make it so much simpler for those looking for prize trades to find them in one spot. No fuss. and those looking for other offer or a prize egg can post else where as well :3

 

Anyways. I noticed this and I wanted to comment on it

If I win, I have a plan. I will not give 2nd gens to anyone but my closest friends, and I'll let my inbox fill up until I can't get anymore so people don't bug me. If I breed an egg I'm willing to trade, I will offer it, and if I don't get offers I want, I'll keep it. Simple enough.

 

And even with all that, I have a breeding plan I want to attempt first to check something out, so until that's done not even my friends will get 2nd gens.

 

Heaven forbid you actually do that. Some of the people in this thread would say you are selfish and unfair, that why should only your friends get a 2nd gen and not everyone else? and if you do decide to trade be sure to only accept the lowest offer because otherwise you are over selling and no one will be able to afford trading with you ;3 or so according to some of the posts on this and many other prize related thread. I'm not saying you have to, by me do what you want, but just letting you know that you will anger a few of those who would want your 2nd gen babies. ;3

 

I am just hoping the raffle winners are announced this or next week because I want to see who and how many won. I would love to see tons of new winners and happy faces, I really do. The more winners the better~

 

Thread mods would have no way of knowing if they were only saying that they would accept other offers, but in fact were only looking for prizes, which is what I think _Sin_ meant. But I don't really think that would be that much of a problem. If they had their own thread to make their trades in I think they would have more luck getting offers they wanted without a bunch of lower offers if they stuck to that thread. Or maybe I am being naive?

 

And I don't think just having you start that thread would do much by itself. It would need cooperation from the mods of the other trade threads to make clear that there would be no such trades allowed in those other threads. It would also need the cooperation of the DC forum mods, I think. With all that in place it might help somewhat.

 

That is what I was thinking so I want to plan out how the thread would work first, what would be considered an offer that could not be posted on other threads, and what would be acceptable trades for the thread I'd make. I would write it out, contact a mod or to and have them weigh in, then hopefully with their help contact other thread owners/mods and relay that to them while the thread is approved and added.

Edited January 8, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Ha-Ki]

Seriously, I don't see a way to make everyone happy. It's a raffle, and the prize dragons are supposed to be special. And there will ALWAYS be drama around it, no matter what is changed. It will just be the same people hoarding even more 2nd gens, and the same other people who can't afford one will still be unhappy.

 

Anyway, some examples why this won't work:

 

1% chance of winning: If 1 out of 100 wins a cb prize, that means 99 users win nothing. In order for everyone to get a 2nd gen, each cb prize would have to breed a shiny every week for two years. And then there's only one 2nd gen for everyone. Multiply the 2 years by 6 if everyone wants a 2nd gen from each color and breed, by 12 if you ad genders as well.

 

5% chance of winning: 1 out of 20 wins, it would still take almost half a year of breeding a shiny every week to get a 2nd gen for everyone. Still 6 years until everyone got a 2nd gen from each breed, color and gender. 3 years if you're satisfied with one of each color.

 

10% chance of winning: 1 out of 10 wins. Spreading 2nd gens to everyone could work with so many cb prizes - only a bit more than two months to get one 2nd gen for every non-winner. At the same time, drama about not having won a cb prize will increase. More people will win two or three times in a row - imagine the drama around that. Still, you'll have to wait 2 years to get a 2nd gen of each breed, color and gender. People collecting 2nd gens for lineages will still complain they can't get enough of them.

 

25% chance of winning: Winning chances are ridiculous by now. And the drama of being one of the 3 out of 4 that don't win will be incredible.

 

And those examples are far from reality, since prize dragons don't breed a shiny every week.

 

Conclusion: There will ALWAYS be drama when it comes to the raffle. There is simply no way to make people happier. They will ALWAYS perceive things as unfair if they don't belong to the group that can afford 2nd gens.

And, as stated above, I don't think anything will change with increasing the chances of winning. If you double the cb's, you double the number of lines people want to collect. It'll be the same metal catchers that dominate the trading market and get all the 2nd gens.

 

However, if my chances of winning are doubled I won't protest I just don't think that it will change anything at all for those that didn't win.

 

To be honest, after having seen the drama for years, I wish there had never been a raffle in the first place. Or that maybe prizes had been unbreedable and were a trophy on your scroll like the leetle trees. But prizes have been added to the site, and removing them or making them unbreedable NOW is no solution either.

 

So I guess we will just have to live with the fact that unless we catch several metals every week, collecting 2nd gens is not a scroll goal we should pick.

[AnanoKimi]

Conclusion: There will ALWAYS be drama when it comes to the raffle. There is simply no way to make people happier. They will ALWAYS perceive things as unfair if they don't belong to the group that can afford 2nd gens.

And, as stated above, I don't think anything will change with increasing the chances of winning. If you double the cb's, you double the number of lines people want to collect. It'll be the same metal catchers that dominate the trading market and get all the 2nd gens.

 

Yep. maybe it will help some, maybe not, the only way to know is to let it happen and see. lus increasing the chances of winning a bit wont hurt anyone really. More prizes, at leas the winners will be happy.

 

So I guess we will just have to live with the fact that unless we catch several metals every week, collecting 2nd gens is not a scroll goal we should pick.

 

Not unless you go in with the knowledge that it wont be fast, it wont be easy, and whining/complaining/badgering wont make things go any faster.

[olympe]

At least that's the case with pretty much every suggestion that would do anything but benefit prize winners: Some say they would be okay with it - and next thing you know, some others start about how wrong this suggestion is.

Because there is so much opposition for improving breeding rations, upping winner numbers, Boost BSA to improve shiny odds, Multiclutching BSA to share the love in the AP. Yes, that benefits only Prize owners. No one else would benefit from all that but prize owners. ;P

The only thing on that list that might not benefit prize winners (any more than the average guy or gal) is upping winner numbers.

Improving breeding ratios => more shinies for winners => more trading power

Boost BSA => more shinies for winners => more trading power.

Multiclutch BSA => better chance at shinies (up to four chances at a shiny instead of one, especially useful when breeding to commons), but only *if* the winner decides to use it (which many won't because they really don't want to see their precious eggs go to someone who might not care properly for it/ freeze it/ not name it/ not breed it the way they like. So, only use this when breeding to commons and not at all when breeding to CB metals or holidays. Win:win for the winners with very little risk to "lose" a shiny egg to an ignorant player.

 

Letting prizes multi-clutch naturally? "Oh no, I wouldn't breed my prize any more because I don't want to see my precious eggs go to some ingorant player!" - "No, I want to keep full control over what's MINE. No fair! I won't breed any more if that's going to be implemented!" - "But that's not how prizes were envisioned! If that's going to be implemented..." - "I don't want to see someone find a sibling of my hard-earned 2nd gen in the AP without having to pay an arm and a leg for it, too!"

 

Coal prizes: "But my prize wouldn't be super-duper-mega-über-special any more! Noooo!"

 

Restricting prize trading to a single thread: "Personally, I hate only being able to post in one thread - once that's buried, that's it until the next day... "

 

Prizes as cave drops: "But my prize wouldn't be as special any more if everybody could have one!"

 

See a trend here?

[_Sin_]

Letting prizes multi-clutch naturally? "Oh no, I wouldn't breed my prize any more because I don't want to see my precious eggs go to some ingorant player!" - "No, I want to keep full control over what's MINE. No fair! I won't breed any more if that's going to be implemented!" - "But that's not how prizes were envisioned! If that's going to be implemented..." - "I don't want to see someone find a sibling of my hard-earned 2nd gen in the AP without having to pay an arm and a leg for it, too!"

 

Coal prizes: "But my prize wouldn't be super-duper-mega-über-special any more! Noooo!"

 

Restricting prize trading to a single thread: "Personally, I hate only being able to post in one thread - once that's buried, that's it until the next day... "

 

Prizes as cave drops: "But my prize wouldn't be as special any more if everybody could have one!"

 

See a trend here?

ROFL. Remember some reactions to "Request: No new Prize breeds, please!, Keep Tinsels & Shimmers as the Prizes"?

[PolarVortex]

Very much support! Would love to see a significant increase in the number of winners.

 

Like many others in this thread my issue with the raffle is not that I haven't won or that I haven't been able to get low gen prizes, but how they have totally dominated and skewed the DC trading system. While I'd be thrilled to win, For my play style, I was perfectly happy to be able to get one of each sprite. So why am I still dissatisfied with the raffle? Because of how all trading seems to be entirely dominated by people wanting low-gen prizes. I'd love for prizes to be common enough that they weren't the be-all-end-all of DC trading. I am really glad to see so many other people saying the same thing.

 

Yes, there will always be some other thing that is uber rare that dominates the trading, but as others have pointed out, for those things absolutely everyone in the game has a fair shot (no matter how slim) at being able to catch/make them, unlike low gen prizes.