2013-08-04 - Two-Headed Madness

[love_HP]

I know how Teleport works, and I know how AP trading used to work. All I'm saying is that attaching a new system is not the same as taking one already implemented system and retooling it.

Just wondering. What, do you think, is not the same? Coding for TJ?

[Torkie10]

in the cave biomes there really isn't a way to tell the greens form the blues until after you catch it I believe

Except for the fact that they drop in different Biomes. The Green Opals drop primarily in the Forest, and the Blue Opals drop primarily in the Mountains.

[Lyssie]

If TJ created a solution to this "problem", it would be a fatal mistake on his part. Why? Because having blockers adds some small degree of challenge to a rather dull game. Take that away, and suddenly the game becomes easier. If the game becomes easier, people will lose interest in it faster than they already do. You can argue that you can keep yourself busy with other various activities, mostly in the form of making lineages. But as "entertaining" as they are, they are just not enough to hold one's interest for very long. There are descriptions, but not everyone is a writer. There is collecting, but like lineages, it gets old fast.

So making it easier to obtain all of the precious pixels is not going to solve anything or make players stay longer. If anything, they'll leave at a quicker rate once they've done everything.

I can honestly tell you that cave blockers are the biggest reason I rarely come back to Dragon Cave these days. There's no "challenge" in refreshing an unmoving page waiting for the magical moment when somebody decides to grab one of the eggs that are just sitting there and hoping that your refresh is timed just right so that you actually have the time to see, realize what you're seeing, and grab a desirable egg. It's just frustrating and boring.

 

I'm excited for this new release because I actually managed to catch some eggs. That's a rare accomplishment for me nowadays. If there was ever actually a reasonable chance of me catching an egg I want - not even necessarily a rare, just one of the commons I can't ever catch - I'd be more interested in the site and would play more. As it is, the most I can be bothered to do is occasionally breed something, or settle for grabbing a common I don't actually want just because I'm tired of the unmoving eggs. Otherwise, the site just offers too little entertainment return on my time investment. Which is a shame, because I like this site a lot and am honored to have contributed to it.

 

--

 

Anyway, the new eggs look great! Hoping I can at least grab a breeding pair of opalescents - I've got all the multicoloreds I could want, but the opalescents are being dodgy for me. Back to the hunt!

[skauble]

Here's an idea:  I don't know if it's feasible, but it's just an idea. What if, every once in a while, the cave was set up so that people who already had one or two of the rarer dragons couldn't catch any more?  Then those dragons are released in a rather big drop -- it doesn't have to be by the thousands, just enough so people have a chance -- and people who don't have any could catch just one or two.  Then at the end of the day, things could go back to normal until the next time, months later, or something.  How does this sound?

The game has been specifically set up so that the way players are limited is by scroll limits as opposed to breed limits, with the exception of holidays which are restricted for reasons relating to those occasions. Since rares are intentionally not limited I don't think this would fit in.

 

I think that a better way to fix this would be to find a way that increases everyone's access to various breeds as opposed to decreasing the access of some.

[Kiyoura]

I keep wanting TJ to make a system where, for raising 100 or so of this common dragon to adulthood, the user gets to trade them in for a CB rare, and lose the dragons the user has traded. And maybe they'd all have to be CB and have no offsprings, descriptions, or names.

 

Because, I do raise CBs from the AP. But, do I seriously want another Guardian when I've raised a handful already? :S If there was something I can do with them besides make lineages (which, honestly, there's too many I want to make), I'd be happy to raise hundreds of CB commons to trade them for something I actually want.

[Guillotine]

I think that would be too close to spontaneous egg generation, and TJ's vetoed any suggestion that involves that.

[love_HP]

I keep wanting TJ to make a system where, for raising 100 or so of this common dragon to adulthood, the user gets to trade them in for a CB rare, and lose the dragons the user has traded. And maybe they'd all have to be CB and have no offsprings, descriptions, or names.

 

Because, I do raise CBs from the AP. But, do I seriously want another Guardian when I've raised a handful already? :S If there was something I can do with them besides make lineages (which, honestly, there's too many I want to make), I'd be happy to raise hundreds of CB commons to trade them for something I actually want.

Try the Cave plumbers thread... I don't believe TJ is EVER going to implement this. Not that I'm against it.

[Tehpikachu]

Just wondering. What, do you think, is not the same? Coding for TJ?

I wasn't talking at all about how TJ codes all of this. I was talking about how these things get thought up. I can be hard to think of a new system, but sometimes it is harder to take one system and have to completely rethink it.

[Renmiri]

It's an issue on DC's end, primarily. Almost everyone experiences lag to at least some degree, especially at the top of the hour.

No surprise at all. You are competing with other people's PCs and their DSL / Broadband speeds. There will always be people with a setup faster than you.

 

An MMO boss top speed is mostly fixed. Can only go down with lag. Besides, MMO's aren't that big on high end graphics or speed

[love_HP]

I wasn't talking at all about how TJ codes all of this. I was talking about how these things get thought up. I can be hard to think of a new system, but sometimes it is harder to take one system and have to completely rethink it.

I still don't understand why you're against change in the cave to make it actually move. Becaust it's hard? What is the downside of letting the system throw the blockers to the AP?

[Guillotine]

I wasn't talking at all about how TJ codes all of this. I was talking about how these things get thought up. I can be hard to think of a new system, but sometimes it is harder to take one system and have to completely rethink it.

The Suggestions/Request section would disagree with you. There's been discussion of multiple ways to deal with blockers, and unless I misremember people have also delved, however briefly, into how difficult it would be to code a timed-dump/kick system.

 

e: Nope, must have scrambled it with a different topic.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Guillotine

[love_HP]

The Suggestions/Request section would disagree with you. There's been discussion of multiple ways to deal with blockers, and unless I misremember people have also delved, however briefly, into how difficult it would be to code a timed-dump/kick system.

GET A CODER TO HELP YOU, TJ

[Tehpikachu]

GET A CODER TO HELP YOU, TJ

Ha, now there's something I can agree on; TJ should have someone else do things, or at the very least, help him.

[Jennie]

Just my two cents, instead of just flat out saying no maybe give reasons so the OP will understand why you said no.

 

Why do I have to explain anything when the reason why I've made that post in the first place was not to convince but to state my opposition? But anyways I'm against the limitation of other people's gameplay for any other reasons.

 

Besides, it's a really simplistic approach. How are you going to make the cave differentiate between CB rares and lineaged rares? And if lineaged rares, the really low gen ones that everyone wants and the messy, long lineaged ones? What if I was a newbie that got 2 golds gifted (messy lineaged and inbred) and couldn't catch a CB gold because someone decided that it was a ~good~ idea to limit other people's gameplay?

 

It was merely an idea, as I said, offered up as a possible solution. And, again as I said, NOT A PERMANENT SOLUTION, merely a temporary thing. I, personally, don't give a heck about lineages, or no lineages, but I realize some people do. Why should their desires be privileged over mine and others, particularly? Why should I not have an occasional chance to catch a rare egg because someone else might not have a chance to catch a CB egg FOR ONE DAY, once a year or something? But, I just offered an idea. I have no power here and I'm not trying to ruin anyone's life.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Jennie

[skauble]

I know how Teleport works, and I know how AP trading used to work. All I'm saying is that attaching a new system is not the same as taking one already implemented system and retooling it.

And he also changed how long it takes to hatch eggs - both lengthening the time and, for a period, randomizing it. He's also restructured how the AP works. He changed the consequences of killing things, freezing limits and the entire scroll limit system - including the much asked for disconnecting of egg/hatchling limits.

 

TJ's made some changes I've liked and some that I haven't, but I think it's safe to say that he's certainly willing to put in the effort to make large scale changes to existing systems if he feels there's a compelling reason.

[Kiyoura]

I think that would be too close to spontaneous egg generation, and TJ's vetoed any suggestion that involves that.

Oh. This makes me sad, actually.

 

Try the Cave plumbers thread... I don't believe TJ is EVER going to implement this. Not that I'm against it.

The Cave Plumber's Thread is nice... but it depends on people catching the eggs for you for raising cave blockers? Ergh. I might try it, but I prefer TJ implementing something where we can trade Caveblockers for a CB rare.

[Blackhawke]

No surprise at all. You are competing with other people's PCs and their DSL / Broadband speeds. There will always be people with a setup faster than you.

 

An MMO boss top speed is  mostly fixed. Can only go down with lag. Besides, MMO's aren't that big on high end graphics or speed 

I know your point, but I also said my ping times to the DC server had improved since last year. And guess what? While my refreshes and click lag by 30 seconds plus on the hour, my ping times stay constant with only occasional packet loss. So I guess that means I can contact the server, I just can't get a response from it

 

Colour me absent

Edited August 5, 2013 by Blackhawke

[Syphoneira]

If TJ created a solution to this "problem", it would be a fatal mistake on his part. Why? Because having blockers adds some small degree of challenge to a rather dull game. Take that away, and suddenly the game becomes easier. If the game becomes easier, people will lose interest in it faster than they already do. You can argue that you can keep yourself busy with other various activities, mostly in the form of making lineages. But as "entertaining" as they are, they are just not enough to hold one's interest for very long. There are descriptions, but not everyone is a writer. There is collecting, but like lineages, it gets old fast.

So making it easier to obtain all of the precious pixels is not going to solve anything or make players stay longer. If anything, they'll leave at a quicker rate once they've done everything.

 

 

 

 

As has been pointed out by others, Cave Blocking - or a traffic jam of any sort - is not an interesting and amusing 'challenge', just an impediment that prevents people from getting anywhere.

 

If players have a continual variety of various dragons to choose from, sooner or later, virtually everyone can see something they want/could use and can try for it, which means they can actually play.

 

The game is dull for most of us who too-often find it so BECAUSE of the Blockers and the difficulty in breeding.

 

That's why we don't watch paint dry for amusement in our spare time, we play games which we'd rather not have produce the same effect.

 

 

 

 

I was just reading about a survey which indicated that (so far, in a worsening situation) 80% of Americans have had/will have at least one period of what I believe was one year or more in their lives where they'll suffer outright poverty.

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/28...rty-joblessness

 

AP: 4 in 5 Americans live in danger of falling into poverty, joblessness

 

This is predominately the result of such (corporate) issues as off-shoring, corporate corner-cutting for profit increases by digging into wages and the ever-growing shortage of jobs paying a living wage - and this IS a global economic issue.

 

DC is played by people all over the world.

 

 

 

Things like fast computers and connections are beyond probably MOST people's reach during at least most of their lives, so the number of people with old puters are going to radically outnumber those who can afford both.

 

If TJ doesn't care about this and about the money he makes from advertising on DC, that's literally his business, but it doesn't seem very practical for him to waste the opportunity to keep long-term players happy and attract new ones from the larger pool in order to concentrate on a much smaller one, many of whom may only have fast puters and connections because they're at college, and who too-often now wind up broke later, burdened with student debt and unable to find well-paying employment in their fields - and in any such case then unable to take their minds off their worries in their recreational time by playing DC and actually catching anything because they can't manage to both eat and have a hot gaming system.

 

But after all of the time and effort TJ's expended on this site, I expect he probably does care very much about his brainchild and the number of players it attracts, and I seem to recall reading that he was hoping to make a living off the site?

 

 

Edit: The Typo Queen strikes again!

Edited August 5, 2013 by Syphoneira

[Rosedamai]

It was merely an idea, as I said, offered up as a possible solution. And, again as I said, NOT A PERMANENT SOLUTION, merely a temporary thing. I, personally, don't give a heck about lineages, but I realize some people do. Why should their desires be privileged over mine and others, particularly? Why should I not have an occasional chance to catch a rare egg because someone else might not have a chance to catch a lineaged egg FOR ONE DAY, once a year or something?

Because you're still, in essence, limiting other users' chance to get an egg because YOU feel that YOUR desires should be put ahead of them. I personally don't care if someone has a scroll filled with CB metals. Good for them. I also think that everyone should be ALLOWED to catch whatever they want.

 

Yeah, it sucks to be unable to catch an egg you want, and I understand how frustrating it is, but let's not limit OTHER PEOPLE's chances just for you.

[love_HP]

I know your point, but I also said my ping times to the DC server had improved since last year. And guess what? While my refreshes and click lag by 30 seconds plus on the hour, my ping times stay constant with only occasional packet loss. So I guess that means I can contact the server, I just can't get a response from it

 

Colour me absent

Yes, DC is lagging at top of hour for everyone. I wonder if TJ is unable to fix this.

[diaveborn]

I don't support Jennie's suggestion because I think there are better ways to go about addressing the issue.

 

But I would certainly hope that people could live with their chances being limited one day out of the year. (Just like I wish that people wouldn't blame "hoarders" for their frustration, would contact people who ask to be contacted in the Departures thread, and other things that I imagine to be reasonable but apparently are not.)

Edited August 5, 2013 by diaveborn

[Rosedamai]

But I would certainly hope that people could live with their chances being limited one day out of the year.  (Just like I wish that people wouldn't blame "hoarders" for their frustration, would contact people who ask to be contacted in the Departures thread, and other things that I imagine to be reasonable but apparently are not.)

Why should they be content with missing out of the fun if apparently it's some sort of a mass release for metals?

 

The thing is though, the cave's user population has gotten too large. That's the main issue here. There are a lot more people than there used to be, and this ups the competition more. There should be longer drops, or some other ways to counteract this blockage and too many people flocking, such as sending blockers to the AP. Limiting others' chances isn't one of them.

Edited August 5, 2013 by ylangylang

[love_HP]

As has been pointed out by others, Cave Blocking - or a traffic jam of any sort - is not an interesting and amusing 'challenge', just an impediment that prevents people from getting anywhere.

 

If players have a continual variety of various dragons to choose from, sooner or later, virtually everyone can see something they want/could use and can try for it, which means they can actually play.

 

The game is dull for most of us who too-often find it so BECAUSE of the Blockers and the difficulty in breeding.

 

That's why we don't watch paint dry for amusement in our spare time, we play games which we'd rather not have produce the same effect.

I believe the root of the problem is not people with fast internet connection taking everything. It's a ridiculously boring cave (almost like frozen) for all year round except the 1 new release day, and it's still ridiculously frozen even for someone with the fastest connection and fastest computer in the world.

[diaveborn]

Why should they be content with missing out of the fun if apparently it's some sort of a mass release for metals?

Actually, yeah. I'd forgotten about that part of the suggestion. That would be far harder to ask people to take then what I was thinking.

 

(I'm way too tired - sorry!)

[Syphoneira]

I believe the root of the problem is not people with fast internet connection taking everything. It's a ridiculously boring cave (almost like frozen) for all year round except the 1 new release day, and it's still ridiculously frozen even for someone with the fastest connection and fastest computer in the world.

 

 

Exactly!

 

Although some claim to find it 'challenging', I suspect they're very much in the minority.