2013-08-04 - Two-Headed Madness

[Sir Barton]

I was just saying that in general. Not targeting.

I do agree with you on the cave issue; I think it is a very serious problem, it's just that I don't believe there's a solution to the root of it. I always thought TJ makes the game in however way he wants it to be, and we discussing it here isn't making a difference anyway. (I know I sound too negative )

Oh, no. I think we all have a tendency to sound negative. No worries there.

 

TJ does seem to meander through from time to time and seems to pay attention to what's going on. Doesn't mean that he'll change anything, but since he wants this to be his money maker..... Well, you know the old adage; the customer is always right. He really needs to give complaints some serious thought if he wants to keep the user base. Bringing in new players is great, but he would be wise to focus on retaining the base that he has as well which means addressing the issues and finding solutions to what's been "broken" for a ridiculously long time.

 

Once again, just my two cents. ..... I'm going to be out of pocket change soon.

[Arielen-chan]

 

Hi, love_HP,

 

thanks for the advice, but I came here to collect and raise the dragons I wanted, and have done a great deal of breeding (although the results of breeding generally suck as well as typically does hunting) and gifting, things that I'm into, unlike descriptions, which are OK, but not my thing.

 

I was an addict here for years, and like a number of other long-time addicts, (not all of whom come out and say so, for fear of being jumped on/insulted by being called whiners for speaking their feelings,) I've been steadily losing interest in the site, due to lousy hunting and breeding.

 

I was just on for a 5-minute Drop where all biomes were plugged up with Blocker breeds - most people don't find this amusing, and there weren't that many on most biomes.

 

I'm not, btw, complaining about not having 'rares' - if you take a look at my scroll, you'll see that I do have some and if you have a look at my start date, you'll see that I've put a lot of time into getting them.

 

I'm commenting on the fact that we usually CAN'T PLAY because the game is set up in a fashion that too-often prevents people from hunting, because, despite the AP fix, the Cave is chronically Blocked with unwanted dragons, and that it's darned near impossible for a high proportion of people to catch the new dragons they want during Releases.

 

A lot of people would be happy to find various dragons which are not 'rares', but they don't want to keep accumulating dragons they either never wanted in the first place or already have enough of.

 

And a lot of us who once spent most of whatever time we could on this site are having a sad because our addiction is going away, lol.

And again, I see many of my thoughts in your words. I saw it in the last hour, when I tried hunting again. Some of the biomes were blocked by the same five or six egg types of five or ten minutes.

 

It is frustrating, when nothing changes. I cannot spent hours sitting here, staring on a never changing screen, although I refresh constantly. Is becomes boring, frustrating, at the end I am angry at myself, at the game.

 

Where is the fun then can you tell my that? Many of the things she says are true - I joined DC 2009, but now I am really at the brink to leave, because I have enough to throw away so much hours of my life.

[merboy1001]

Does anyone else think the opals look a tad aquatic?

[love_HP]

Hi, love_HP,

 

thanks for the advice, but I came here to collect and raise the dragons I wanted, and have done a great deal of breeding (although the results of breeding generally suck as well as typically does hunting) and gifting, things that I'm into, unlike descriptions, which are OK, but not my thing.

 

I was an addict here for years, and like a number of other long-time addicts, (not all of whom come out and say so, for fear of being jumped on/insulted by being called whiners for speaking their feelings,) I've been steadily losing interest in the site, due to lousy hunting and breeding.

 

I was just on for a 5-minute Drop where all biomes were plugged up with Blocker breeds - most people don't find this amusing, and there weren't that many on most biomes.

 

I'm not, btw, complaining about not having 'rares' - if you take a look at my scroll, you'll see that I do have some and if you have a look at my start date, you'll see that I've put a lot of time into getting them.

 

I'm commenting on the fact that we usually CAN'T PLAY because the game is set up in a fashion that too-often prevents people from hunting, because, despite the AP fix, the Cave is chronically Blocked with unwanted dragons, and that it's darned near impossible for a high proportion of people to catch the new dragons they want during Releases.

 

A lot of people would be happy to find various dragons which are not 'rares', but they don't want to keep accumulating dragons they either never wanted in the first place or already have enough of.

 

And a lot of us who once spent most of whatever time we could on this site are having a sad because our addiction is going away, lol.

I never liked the state of the cave and I believe that there should be a change. 3 blockers sitting there for ages until someone picks it up (to abandon it 5 hours later) only to be replaced by another blocker. This made me unwilling to go to the cave and I've been an AP hunter for a long time.

Which is RIDICU-ICULOUS to me. I do understand that one needs patience to get rares and I'm never very unhappy if I don't get a rare. But this whole thing is just...ridiculous. The only way to get the biomes moving at all is a user sacrificing an egg space for 5 hours, which shouldn't be an obligation if you ask me. The AP is a much better place in this aspect - the eggs there are almost always moving if you refresh a few times.

That's why I am all for sending cave blockers to the AP and suggested the idea of users "Kicking" cave blocker eggs to the AP.

I just don't really believe TJ would do it, at least not in the short-term future.

[Spyridon]

Man, I completely forgot the First Sunday of the Month is a new release!

 

I'm so locked that I barely had enough room to catch two of the same dragon breed. Now I need to wait until I have four slots open up in two days.

 

I just hope they're not rares or I'm screwed to kingdom come.

[Guillotine]

If TJ created a solution to this "problem", it would be a fatal mistake on his part. Why? Because having blockers adds some small degree of challenge to a rather dull game. Take that away, and suddenly the game becomes easier. If the game becomes easier, people will lose interest in it faster than they already do. You can argue that you can keep yourself busy with other various activities, mostly in the form of making lineages. But as "entertaining" as they are, they are just not enough to hold one's interest for very long. There are descriptions, but not everyone is a writer. There is collecting, but like lineages, it gets old fast.

So making it easier to obtain all of the precious pixels is not going to solve anything or make players stay longer. If anything, they'll leave at a quicker rate once they've done everything.

No. No, it doesn't. Blockers make the game even more tedious to play. I don't care that much about rares, I just want the biomes to move so that i can get the CB commons I actually want to collect. I'm not sure why you think the game will magically become easier just because the biomes don't stagnate with the same three eggs for an entire hour. A lot of people, including myself, would actually be interested in cave-hnting again if, say, eggs that sat in the cave for five minutes were booted to the AP instead of clogging the cave entil the next hourly, where... they'd be replaced by more blockers.

 

Blockers are a detriment to the game, not an asset, and the sheer competition for rares would ensure that it doesn't get magically easier to get them. It's called supply and demand, and demand far outstrips the supply for rares.

[skauble]

Gee, I didn't know  this game was about winning?

I thought it was about collecting  

With the drops this way, that is becoming nigh on impossible. This is not real life , it's pixel life. It's supposed to be an escape.

I am only needing one green opal and thankfully I will be done since I don't breed Two- heads.  The fact that it took two days  of late nights and way too much time waiting for hourly drops has been frustrating. I think I will just be short one- I gave up on the coppers , this will be easier.

The fact that we are giving up could be a bad thing for this game in the long run.

Actually, it's about both winning and collecting. The hunt is a race and each click has a winner. However, I agree that not everything in the world has to be a life lesson. "The world is tough" is something that much of the world is all to eager too demonstrate, so there's no harm in structuring things that aren't required to be overly frustrating in the best way possible in a manner that doesn't compromise their intent.

 

Well let me tell you something; TJ doesn't care. He's not going to change the entire game's mechanic just because a couple of people, including myself by the way, don't have decent enough internet connection to catch every egg that pops up. Hell, people who have faster connection can't catch everything. You win some, you lose some.

 

Like I said, not everyone can be a winner. You have to suck it up and lose sometimes, that's the way life is.

That's the same TJ who put in an entire teleport system, right? Why would anyone assume he'd never change the game in response to enough concern/desire from the players?

[Jennie]

I love the new eggs. I have 3 undecided eggs, but have not yet been able to catch an opal, and it worries me because I'd like at least one, possibly 2. I don't want or need a ton of any one kind of dragon, caught in the cave. I can always breed my own dragons if I want more. I can always trade with other people. So, I'm not being greedy when I say that it worries me when I can't catch even one of a species of dragon. The first day of a release is always easiest. How much chance have I got of even getting one opal now? It's possible, but how likely is it?

 

I have tried for years without success to catch a gold and a silver. Just one was all I wanted, but I never caught one. I now have one of each because of generous gifters, so I'm happy, but it would have been great to catch one of my own. It's frustrating to see other people with large numbers of the rarer eggs. I understand that part of the fun of playing this game is that some eggs are rarer and harder to catch, but still it hurts to realize that you don't have any chance at all, which is what I came to realize about the gold and silver dragons.

 

Here's an idea: I don't know if it's feasible, but it's just an idea. What if, every once in a while, the cave was set up so that people who already had one or two of the rarer dragons couldn't catch any more? Then those dragons are released in a rather big drop -- it doesn't have to be by the thousands, just enough so people have a chance -- and people who don't have any could catch just one or two. Then at the end of the day, things could go back to normal until the next time, months later, or something. How does this sound?

[Blackhawke]

Oh, hooray, a new release. What with top of the hour lag I can count in in half minute lots, catching anything in a crowd is as hard as its been since this level of lag hit just before last christmas. Funny thing tho, my ping times have actually improved. Maybe the server responds better to pings than refreshes.

 

Now its day two and the 5 minute breaks aren't worth waiting for so I'll cheer for the two "can't make up their mind" dragons I caught and go back to hoping for a lucky first click every hour followed by an hours wait or continue filling out my commons. Biomes are locked on less popular commons after the first attempted click or refresh, so trying to catch anything other than a one shot top of the hour lucky dip is just frustrating. and nobody plays a game to be frustrated.

 

Going by previous posts on top of the hour lag I am far from alone in this. Call us the bunch in the dark corners of the cave I guess

 

I used to love competing for a new release, and helping others who for whatever reason were unsuccessful. Now I'm part of the unsuccessful crowd and Dragon Cave is a "when I have nothing better to do" activity.

 

Its a fun game, for those who can still play it.

 

Lucky for me my PC still lets me raid high end bosses in MMOs. Still surprises me that its not up to spec for DC.

[Tehpikachu]

That's the same TJ who put in an entire teleport system, right? Why would anyone assume he'd never change the game in response to enough concern/desire from the players?

... What? That's different. That's not like changing how the site works, that's giving functional BSA to a dragon.

 

But now that I think about it, TJ HAS done a major site change that I can recall... adding more than one biome. So there's something, I suppose.

[diaveborn]

I just want the biomes to move so that i can get the CB commons I actually want to collect.

*nod* I'd see something working where the rares show up the same percentage of the time that they do now, but instead of looking at the same three common eggs in the biome, you'd still see three common eggs but they'd have a chance to be *different* common eggs.

 

I collect CB nocturnes, a wiki-listed "very common" breed - but I collect them from the AP, because I'd rather spend my time re-abandoning something I don't want, than spending my time staring at a non-moving biome.

[love_HP]

... What? That's different. That's not like changing how the site works, that's giving functional BSA to a dragon.

 

But now that I think about it, TJ HAS done a major site change that I can recall... adding more than one biome. So there's something, I suppose.

I heard that TJ never liked the old way of trading/gifting (refreshing the abandon code page). And that can be part of the reason he gave us teleport.

Anyway I still believe that it takes at least a year for TJ to make any change that people actually need.

[Sir Barton]

If TJ created a solution to this "problem", it would be a fatal mistake on his part. Why? Because having blockers adds some small degree of challenge to a rather dull game. Take that away, and suddenly the game becomes easier. If the game becomes easier, people will lose interest in it faster than they already do. You can argue that you can keep yourself busy with other various activities, mostly in the form of making lineages. But as "entertaining" as they are, they are just not enough to hold one's interest for very long. There are descriptions, but not everyone is a writer. There is collecting, but like lineages, it gets old fast.

So making it easier to obtain all of the precious pixels is not going to solve anything or make players stay longer. If anything, they'll leave at a quicker rate once they've done everything.

And yet, I have been playing since February of 2008, have all the pixels including eggs for all the species of this release, barely participate in a single lineage, don't describe my dragons and yet have managed to enjoy the game up until several months ago when new releases became more of a chore than entertainment.

 

The site has issues that need to be fixed. There are always ways that an individual can make something more challenging by creating handicaps for themselves. The game doesn't need to, nor should it, cripple a section of the user base to make itself more challenging for those who have better faster systems. It's a collecting game, not an action game. Everyone should be able to reasonably collect what they desire without going bald from pulling their hair out chasing intangible pixels.

[Rosedamai]

Here's an idea: I don't know if it's feasible, but it's just an idea. What if, every once in a while, the cave was set up so that people who already had one or two of the rarer dragons couldn't catch any more? Then those dragons are released in a rather big drop -- it doesn't have to be by the thousands, just enough so people have a chance -- and people who don't have any could catch just one or two. Then at the end of the day, things could go back to normal until the next time, months later, or something. How does this sound?

No.

[skauble]

... What? That's different. That's not like changing how the site works, that's giving functional BSA to a dragon.

 

But now that I think about it, TJ HAS done a major site change that I can recall... adding more than one biome. So there's something, I suppose.

Teleport had a huge impact on the game - which was why the matter was discussed for years before it was implemented. There were forum polls, an in-cave poll, more forum polls, the BSA suggestion thread. etc. all for the very reason that we understood that it was a shift in the game.

 

Remember that AP trading was a loophole that people made the most of. There was zero official trading before teleport. Making an entire system to move things from one player to another is a massive change in game mechanics.

[Guillotine]

Lucky for me my PC still lets me raid high end bosses in MMOs. Still surprises me that its not up to spec for DC.

It's an issue on DC's end, primarily. Almost everyone experiences lag to at least some degree, especially at the top of the hour.

[love_HP]

I don't care that much about rares, I just want the biomes to move so that i can get the CB commons I actually want to collect.

This.

I apologize to this whole thread for not reading it in full.

I'm not suggesting the rare:common ratios should be altered. But I don't really see the harm of letting the system throw the blockers to the AP instead of users doing it now. ER eggs never stay in AP for too long anyway (unless it's a new release).

[aethelwhyne]

QUOTE (Jennie @ Aug 5 2013, 02:19 AM)

Here's an idea: I don't know if it's feasible, but it's just an idea. What if, every once in a while, the cave was set up so that people who already had one or two of the rarer dragons couldn't catch any more? Then those dragons are released in a rather big drop -- it doesn't have to be by the thousands, just enough so people have a chance -- and people who don't have any could catch just one or two. Then at the end of the day, things could go back to normal until the next time, months later, or something. How does this sound?

 

No.

Just my two cents, instead of just flat out saying no maybe give reasons so the OP will understand why you said no.

[Blackhawke]

It's an issue on DC's end, primarily. Almost everyone experiences lag to at least some degree, especially at the top of the hour.

I know this, what cheeses me off if that for 8 or 9 months now, nothing has been done about it, aside from denying that it happens

[Tehpikachu]

Teleport had a huge impact on the game - which was why the matter was discussed for years before it was implemented. There were forum polls, an in-cave poll, more forum polls, the BSA suggestion thread. etc. all for the very reason that we understood that it was a shift in the game.

 

Remember that AP trading was a loophole that people made the most of. There was zero official trading before teleport. Making an entire system to move things from one player to another is a massive change in game mechanics.

I know how Teleport works, and I know how AP trading used to work. All I'm saying is that attaching a new system is not the same as taking one already implemented system and retooling it.

[Twilight_Moon_Racer]

does anyone know were the green opals are found because i havent seen any of them yet

[Guillotine]

does anyone know were the green opals are found because i havent seen any of them yet

The Forest biome, and maybe the Coast? Not sure on the last one.

[Rosedamai]

Just my two cents, instead of just flat out saying no maybe give reasons so the OP will understand why you said no.

Why do I have to explain anything when the reason why I've made that post in the first place was not to convince but to state my opposition? But anyways I'm against the limitation of other people's gameplay for any other reasons.

 

Besides, it's a really simplistic approach. How are you going to make the cave differentiate between CB rares and lineaged rares? And if lineaged rares, the really low gen ones that everyone wants and the messy, long lineaged ones? What if I was a newbie that got 2 golds gifted (messy lineaged and inbred) and couldn't catch a CB gold because someone decided that it was a ~good~ idea to limit other people's gameplay?

 

From the cave's viewpoint there's no difference between a person having one Cb rare that was gifted and plenty of messy, inbred rares and a person having one CB rare and plenty of low gen rares. However, the the player and the trading threads there is a huge difference.

Edited August 5, 2013 by ylangylang

[aethelwhyne]

does anyone know were the green opals are found because i havent seen any of them yet

in the cave biomes there really isn't a way to tell the greens from the blues until after you catch it I believe

Edited August 5, 2013 by aethelwhyne

[Twilight_Moon_Racer]

The Forest biome, and maybe the Coast? Not sure on the last one.

thank you so much that really helps thank you