ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[PointOfOrigin]

Maybe make punishment stricter and publicly say what those punishments are? if people knew that harassing somebody would get them banned for two weeks, for example, some of them would probably think twice.

[olympe]

Well, there's always the option to block PMs by certain users...

[Wymsical]

Well, there's always the option to block PMs by certain users...

Yes, you can block people. But true, genuine harassment should not go unreported. Such types of people should be punished, because they get away with that kind of stuff way too often.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't think the number available for breeding is something to use to determine the number of prizes.

 

The number of prizes being made relative to entries is one thing.

 

"WAAAAH we non-winners want more available to breed eggies for those of us who don't win" is NOT the way to go. (Witness the request for multiclutches. That's all about "we want TRADE FODDER; we want VALUE; we want eggs dropping in the AP that otherwise would never get there and the rest. DC is not a stock market. If some people get something very special - they won it fair and square. If they choose to breed that and gift generously - fine. If they don't - that's fine too.)

 

And as for "we want more to breed and be bred so the number of 2nd gens available for trade will go up" is WAY off. Ugh.

[Rally Vincent]

Maybe make punishment stricter and publicly say what those punishments are? if people knew that harassing somebody would get them banned for two weeks, for example, some of them would probably think twice.

And include a type of definition for harassment. Judging by signatures, some people probably regard any PM about a 2nd gen as harassment, while others don't seem to care if the PM is polite. I don't have first hand experience, I never PM'd a winner about offspring, but the users would need standards to judge if their intended behavior is against the rules. It shouldn't be completely subjective by standards of the recipient of a PM.

[Fuzzbucket]

I think asking more than once - even if you don't get an answer - is a start. If you don't get an answer - that IS your answer.

[Tawanda001]

And as for "we want more to breed and be bred so the number of 2nd gens available for trade will go up" is WAY off. Ugh.

It may not be the most desirable situation, but it is what it is, and is the reason for harassment.

Most people don't want the 2gs for their collection purposes they want it in order to trade. Otherwise they would be just as happy with a 5g or a 10g.

So yeah, the only way I see to lessen the 'need' for 2gs and the accompanying harassment is to find a way to get more 2gs out there as quickly as possible and give people a shot at them who might otherwise never have a chance to 'buy' one.

[LaHaine]

And as for "we want more to breed and be bred so the number of 2nd gens available for trade will go up" is WAY off. Ugh.

I don't know if I speak just for myself and I apologize if it sounds rude, mean or greedy: I want the number of prizes proportional to the number of entries exactly to make the dragon more available to the general public (trading or gifting) as well as increasing people's chances of winning. A decrease in their crazy value wouldn't be bad either.

[Sir Barton]

And include a type of definition for harassment. Judging by signatures, some people probably regard any PM about a 2nd gen as harassment, while others don't seem to care if the PM is polite. I don't have first hand experience, I never PM'd a winner about offspring, but the users would need standards to judge if their intended behavior is against the rules. It shouldn't be completely subjective by standards of the recipient of a PM.

This was my first thought when stricter punishments for harassment was suggested. There really needs to be a clear idea of what harassment entails. I sent pms to various players asking if they would be interesting in swapping lineages. I've never had an issue with that being considered harassment, but when I told a friend of mine what I was doing, she immediately thought that fell under the guise of harassment.

 

There seems to be a little too much ambiguity at the moment when it comes to this offense and its resulting consequences.

 

 

[Fuzzbucket]

It may not be the most desirable situation, but it is what it is, and is the reason for harassment.

Most people don't want the 2gs for their collection purposes they want it in order to trade. Otherwise they would be just as happy with a 5g or a 10g.

So yeah, the only way I see to lessen the 'need' for 2gs and the accompanying harassment is to find a way to get more 2gs out there as quickly as possible and give people a shot at them who might otherwise never have a chance to 'buy' one.

NO - the (nasty) harassment comes later.

 

What I referred to was people (in this thread) asking for there to BE more prize dragons awarded so that they can GET more. Not so that more people can win, so that they can get more 2nd gens. That's not a valid reason for changing prize numbers. Numbers of entries IS.

[Sir Barton]

I think asking more than once - even if you don't get an answer - is a start. If you don't get an answer - that IS your answer.

Not necessarily, fuzz. Unless you track your pm, something that I never think about so it might just be an issue for me, you don't know if it was received. There could have been a glitch that ate it or when caught up in a flood of request, it could have been simply overlooked and may have received a positive response if that hadn't been the case.

 

If you don't get a clear "no", you never really know what happened to that request. Also, is there a time frame where you might be able to make your request again without that becoming harassment considering people do change their minds?

[LaHaine]

NO - the (nasty) harassment comes later.

 

What I referred to was people (in this thread) asking for there to BE more prize dragons awarded so that they can GET more. Not so that more people can win, so that they can get more 2nd gens. That's not a valid reason for changing prize numbers. Numbers of entries IS.

Ah, I see what you mean, I agree with that

[dragonpuck]

And include a type of definition for harassment. Judging by signatures, some people probably regard any PM about a 2nd gen as harassment, while others don't seem to care if the PM is polite. I don't have first hand experience, I never PM'd a winner about offspring, but the users would need standards to judge if their intended behavior is against the rules. It shouldn't be completely subjective by standards of the recipient of a PM.

I believe that is is the sheer volume of PM's that feels like harassment.

I was gifted a 2nd gen shimmer. The only way anyone else could have known was by stalking the prize owners scroll. I got a bunch of requests before it was even hatched!

I refused all the ridiculous IOU offers and finally put a don't pm me in my sig.

Even polite PMs can be overwhelming( I only blocked one player who pm'd repeatedly), but I can see how the amount could drive people to either not breed at all or to leave. They really aren't reportable , but you can feel harassed just the same.

 

Short of not having prize dragons I don't see any way to avoid some level of "harassment".

 

The people who PM asking for offspring, probably think they are being very polite. The problem is that there are 500 of them!

 

Hopefully I won't have to do that again

Edited December 31, 2013 by dragonpuck

[Tawanda001]

Ah, I see what you mean, I agree with that

Yeah, sorry, I misunderstood too.

[Rally Vincent]

I believe that is is the sheer volume of PM's that feels like harassment.

I was gifted a 2nd gen shimmer. The only way anyone else could have known was by stalking the prize owners scroll. I got a bunch of requests before it was even hatched!

I refused all the ridiculous IOU offers and finally put a don't pm me in my sig.

Even polite PMs can be overwhelming( I only blocked one player who pm'd repeatedly), but I can see how the amount could drive people to either not breed at all or to leave. They really aren't reportable , but you can feel harassed just the same.

 

Short of not having prize dragons I don't see any way to avoid some level of "harassment".

 

The people who PM asking for offspring, probably think they are being very polite. The problem is that there are 500 of them!

So then a board rule that PMing about Prize dragon offspring is prohibited unless allowed by the user in their sig/profile?

[Fuzzbucket]

Not necessarily, fuzz. Unless you track your pm, something that I never think about so it might just be an issue for me, you don't know if it was received. There could have been a glitch that ate it or when caught up in a flood of request, it could have been simply overlooked and may have received a positive response if that hadn't been the case.

 

If you don't get a clear "no", you never really know what happened to that request. Also, is there a time frame where you might be able to make your request again without that becoming harassment considering people do change their minds?

I track. I never ask twice (Not that I have ever asked for a 2nd gen prize though. I wouldn't DARE )

 

(Prizewinners may now all feel ever so sorry for me, and recognising how sweet and lovely I am, send me 2nd gens of EVERYTHING...

 

Yeah, right...)

 

But it is DEAD easy to set to track everything and then it isn't an issue at all - I made one request for something (not a prize) that wasn't answered. It was read. I took the point. (Of course, I may suddenly find I am gifted - but probably not...)

 

People with prize dragons get so many PMs, I couldn't blame them for not answering them all.

[Wymsical]

So then a board rule that PMing about Prize dragon offspring is prohibited unless allowed by the user in their sig/profile?

If that were to happen, it should be just be a general rule for all dragons. No asking for offspring from anything, no matter what kind of dragon it is, unless the owner publicly states that it is okay. Yeah I know Prizes are the issue at hand here, but if you were to make a rule like that it's better to just extend it to every dragon. There's more than just Prizes that people would beg for offspring from.

[purplehaze]

But it is DEAD easy to set to track everything and then it isn't an issue at all - I made one request for something (not a prize) that wasn't answered. It was read. I took the point. (Of course, I may suddenly find I am gifted - but probably not...)

 

People with prize dragons get so many PMs, I couldn't blame them for not answering them all.

The people who PM asking for offspring, probably think they are being very polite. The problem is that there are 500 of them!

 

I think this is exactly the problem. Just sheer numbers, however polite, can be overwhelming. But can one polite PM be considered harrassing?

 

I am with Fuzz on this -- I never dared to PM a prize winner and will not in the future, for this very reason.

 

I did finally PM a CB Tinsel owner, after more than a year, and only when she posted something in a forum thread that led me to think it would not be unwelcome. I received no answer, which to me was all the answer I needed.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

If that were to happen, it should be just be a general rule for all dragons. No asking for offspring from anything, no matter what kind of dragon it is, unless the owner publicly states that it is okay. Yeah I know Prizes are the issue at hand here, but if you were to make a rule like that it's better to just extend it to every dragon. There's more than just Prizes that people would beg for offspring from.

I really don't think that's fair. I've PM'd a lot of people (politely) asking for trades and requests, people who didn't specifically say "PM me" but also didn't say "don't PM me" and gotten a lot of really lovely swaps for both parties set up this way.

 

[Fuzzbucket]

If that were to happen, it should be just be a general rule for all dragons. No asking for offspring from anything, no matter what kind of dragon it is, unless the owner publicly states that it is okay. Yeah I know Prizes are the issue at hand here, but if you were to make a rule like that it's better to just extend it to every dragon. There's more than just Prizes that people would beg for offspring from.

I would hate that. I breed for free and often get requests - mostly for commons, in fact, or bloodswaps I can easily do, which I am delighted to fill (unless they are from that person who demands and says they have a RIGHT to expect an egg, and when you block their PMs, they EMAIL as well... "Why haven't you given me MY dragon..." If you are watching - person - your email is blocked as well... )

 

Which leads me to point out - we can usually TELL if we are being harassed. And report accordingly. I would think mods could observe reports and act on persistent offenders. One person asking a winner twice is one thing. One person PMing every winner (or everyone they can see with a CB gold) is - not OK, in my book.

[Wymsical]

I really don't think that's fair. I've PM'd a lot of people (politely) asking for trades and requests, people who didn't specifically say "PM me" but also didn't say "don't PM me" and gotten a lot of really lovely swaps for both parties set up this way.

So why is it fair for you to bug people out of nowhere when they have stated nothing regarding breeding their dragons for people, no matter what kind of dragons they are?

 

I don't post a lot on the forums, but I lurk quite a lot regardless. Tons of people have stuff in their profiles and signatures regarding asking for offspring from stuff from their scrolls. If you're after something more exotic and/or rare (people who are code collectors like me, or people with valuable CB dragons), people owning those types of things more often than not have something in their profile regarding breeding their dragons.

 

Edit: @fuzzbucket, so if you like filling out requests why not just put something about it in your profile or signature? It takes up barely any space and I can tell you, you will not get a large volume of PMs by doing so.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Commander Wymsy

[purplehaze]

If that were to happen, it should be just be a general rule for all dragons. No asking for offspring from anything, no matter what kind of dragon it is, unless the owner publicly states that it is okay. Yeah I know Prizes are the issue at hand here, but if you were to make a rule like that it's better to just extend it to every dragon. There's more than just Prizes that people would beg for offspring from.

Well, I usually have a note in my sig saying I breed by request, but it is not there right now.

 

I would hate to see things restricted this much. Perhaps make it that it is considered harrassment if you PM someone who has specifically asked that you do NOT? That way if a prize winner puts something like that in their sig it would be punishable to PM them.

[Troubletail]

But if the number of participants increased this year too, the number of winners may not be enough anymore. For example starting at 20 winners to 5000, then increasing to 50 winners to 10000 but then keeping 50 winners to 20000, the chances of winning decrease. So a percentage, a number of winners related to number of participants would fix that somehow. It can still be low numbers but at least it will increase with the number of participants.

I'm in favor of having the odds of a raffle win remain steady over time, even if those odds are still astronomically low. This is only my first year on the site, but I can imagine it could get frustrating for long-term players being around for raffle after raffle and knowing that their chances of winning are decreasing each time as the userbase grows. Even setting the overall number of winners as low as a fraction of a percent of total entrants or taking a yearly look at the number of people participating and adjusting the number of prize dragons to compensate would still restrain the supply/demand frustration better than having them remain fixed numbers.

 

HMs are too prize dragons. Just not the SPECIAL ISSUE ones.

 

I'd love a CB frill or maybe a CB Holly.... (I'd REALLY love a CB OP but... sad.gif) In fact - given that I like lineaged prize dragons ad will NEVER have the chance of a lineage of my own, I'd almost rather have an HM - and I believe others have actually made that choice ?

 

I'm in the same position, Fuzzbucket.

If by some miracle I ever get a raffle win of any sort, I already know exactly what dragon I want- and it's not a tinsel/shimmerscale/whatever the latest bronze/silver/gold prize happens to be.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

So why is it fair for you to bug people out of nowhere when they have stated nothing regarding breeding their dragons for people, no matter what kind of dragons they are?

Because there's a pretty big difference between "hey, I have a dragon from Spriter's Alt X and Y, would you care to swap for a baby from your offspring of Spriter's Alt Z?" and "GIMME PLEASE I WANT THIS PLEASE BREED IT FOR ME THANKS." The reaction to a polite PM of inquiry when one wasn't specifically asked not to ask should not be "oh ewww this person is bugging me time to report for harassment."

 

And, honestly? Aside from the owners of CB Prizes (which are not the people I've been swapping with), I really doubt many people are being harassed on a regular basis here. I'm prominent around the forums (more or less), have it right in my sig that I take breeding requests, have oodles of rares--and usually get like one or two requests (for non-rares) a month. So I have trouble believing harassment is such a huge issue for the general populace that such strict rules are needed.

Edited December 31, 2013 by angelicdragonpuppy

[Fuzzbucket]

I guess, if I HAPPEN to have a green nebbie from old colour parents, and someone REALLY needs one just like it for a lineage and keeps getting purples - why not ask me ? Lord - if it weren't mid lineage - if that stone and red nebbie don't stop turning out stones or blue ones, I'd ask someone, too

 

It is the prize ones that are CAUSING this level of harassment. Show me anyone who REALLY minds being asked nicely to breed two stones because those two have been observed to give a geode and your two just WON'T....

 

Most people here are hugely helpful - but when it come to prizes, all hell breaks loose and people demand things, and almost seem to suggest we all have a RIGHT to 2nd gens because prizes are in some way intrinsically unfair. Ugh.

Edited December 31, 2013 by fuzzbucket