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ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

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As a HM winner, I barely receive any PMs. I've literally put my username in my dragon's description, recently, so people can find me if they need things bred (though you must understand that hollies are a little bit impossible). (The code is listed in Dragoncave wikia and furthermore there used to be this underground list of prize owners being passed around secretly which sounds pretty cool.)

 

I have received a grand total of about 4 requests for hollies in 2010 and NO REQUESTS SINCE though people have politely contacted me on the IRC and such on the state of my list opening. I did receive about 3 PMs when I said that I'd trade them for so and so, but that's just it. I'm hardly trade harassed. One would say I obtain very few PMs at all, and I've accepted common requests for quite a long time (not many requests for those either despite those being free). Though I'm probably going to be occupied breeding mates for dragons here on in. //is shot

 

Therefore, I conclude that it's mostly the prize winners that are being targeted.

 

Considering the fact that they are a pretty small group and the fact that the WHOLE point of the raffle is to release new prize dragons in very limited quantities (Tinsels, shimmers, etc.) it's a pretty understandable aspect of human nature that a lot of people have resorted to begging for 2g prize dragons (Tinsel, shimmers, etc.) since there is no way to get them other than contacting the user.

 

I don't condone trade harassment, of course, but if you win something I do think part of the responsibility you owe to the community is you give back to the community. That means replying to enquiries and such. I think that if you enter the raffle, it ought to be that person's understanding that if they win they're going to get an awful lot more exposure than they would than if they wouldn't.

 

And all things considered, I think that many people would be more than willing to give up anything, even peace from PMs for a chance at a CB prize dragon.

Edited by DarkEternity

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The criterion isn't length of playing, though.  The criterion is completing the tasks.  Thus it is open to everyone on an equal basis because everyone gets to make their own choice about when/if they join DC and whether they participate in tasks.  It's very much equal opportunity, it's just equal opportunity stretched over a whole year rather than just the few weeks surround the holiday raffle.  Nobody is stopping anyone from joining DC if they haven't already.

Many MMORPG's do this as a "loyalty event". Log in everyday and complete tasks to win tickets for something. It's not a bad thing, I understand the "what about people that join in late or only notice the news later?", but that could be said about other DC events as well x.x If someone joins in on January 2nd they won't have a chance to complete the event and be in the raffle either please don't kill me

Edited by LaHaine

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Many MMORPG's do this as a "loyalty event". Log in everyday and complete tasks to win tickets for something. It's not a bad thing, I understand the "what about people that join in late or only notice the news later?", but that could be said about other DC events as well x.x If someone joins in on January 2nd they won't have a chance to complete the event and be in the raffle either please don't kill me

That's more like a freemium thing.

 

Get people to logon every day, do a small task, have a chance of a great reward: profit.

 

Either through ads or making people login every day so they are more likely to engage/pay money - it all works out in the end. I'm sure that players who play more are seen to be more likely to pay money to continue to succeed or something, or to retain newer players to get some profit.

Edited by DarkEternity

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As a HM winner, I barely receive any PMs. I've literally put my username in my dragon's description, recently, so people can find me if they need things bred (though you must understand that hollies are a little bit impossible). (The code is listed in Dragoncave wikia and furthermore there used to be this underground list of prize owners being passed around secretly which sounds pretty cool.)

I could of course be wrong, Dark, but I think it's partially that your Holly is female. I actually sought you out a few days ago and nearly PM'd you to ask if I could offer something for a Hollyfail, but then I realized yours was a lady and wouldn't work with my checker. >___<

 

That being said, I doubt any CB Holly owner gets as many PMs as Prize owners, for the simple reason that they only breed true once a year.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Yeah, but then DC as well as RL becomes more stressful, because you can't just run off from your computer to join Doctors Without Borders or whatever without missing out on the Prizes, and one house move or puter crash knocks you out of the running as well.

 

Something like that would take a lot of fun out of the game, at least for some of us.

 

It'd make playing feel like an obligation and we'd get snarly and discontent, just like usual, lol.

 

(Yes, over-tired, silly and giggly, again - however did you guess?)

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I could of course be wrong, Dark, but I think it's partially that your Holly is female. I actually sought you out a few days ago and nearly PM'd you to ask if I could offer something for a Hollyfail, but then I realized yours was a lady and wouldn't work with my checker. >___<

Aww, D":

//luckily nice blusang mates

I'll admit it's female because I was a n00b back in 2010. Green behind the ears n00b.

(n00b as in *making dragons sick, abandoning frills because stripes look cooler, freezing dragons to free up scroll, can't catch anything, really can't catch a gold and silver either, afraid of PMing people for said gold and silver dragons, freezing CB holidays /sigh*)

 

Which just goes to show the fact that yes, I'd expect many newbies do win and promptly get tired of the site (I missed that summer release or something because I left DC and came back a month or two later). Though in my case, I think I came back permanently.

Edited by DarkEternity

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I'm just kind of flailing around dropping off random thoughts so here's another thing:

 

Do you know which players were most successful in getting 2g Prizes?

 

Not those who waited.

 

It was those who PM'd the prize winners immediately, before the new owners had their fill of normal player things like CB Metals and what not and started just trading with other CB Prize owners. I actually waited a few days so as to not bother, realized a ton of people had already gotten on lists by asking, finally asked someone--and got my first (and only) 2g for a handful of CB Trios. Now that the Prize owners have gotten all the normal things they want, though, it's just... all but impossible to get into that circle.

 

The only way to really water down that pressure is to increase the number of prizes, which again, I really support. I think the lotto wrecked the DC spirit of "you can get everything if you try" (yes yes, you can still get the sprites, but for the many players who work on lineages that doesn't mean as much). Obviously there are lots of other things in DC that some can never get now (sadly), but CB Prizes are unique in being impossible to get for most and completely dominating the trade market for those who get them. I really wish they could be watered down into something more obtainable... I mean, 2gs from Spriter's Alts still trade for just about anything, but at the same time getting low gens from them feels possible, which is nice.

 

And note that it's not about trade value, either. I can trade more or less easily enough for everything I want (except the aforementioned godspawn), and I even gift CB Metals, so I'm not gunning for 2gs for trading. It's just DC is, well, mostly a collection game, and I (and lots of others) like collecting lineages, and--Prizes are one of the most prominent ones we'll never be able to get. Obviously I can't work on all Snow Angel lineages and things with Frills and Old Pinks beyond the CB generation are out of the picture now, too, but at least we're all in that sad boat together rather than on the bottom peering enviously upwards. >___<

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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I'm just kind of flailing around dropping off random thoughts so here's another thing:

 

Do you know which players were most successful in getting 2g Prizes?

 

Not those who waited.

 

It was those who PM'd the prize winners immediately, before the new owners had their fill of normal player things like CB Metals and what not and started just trading with other CB Prize owners. I actually waited a few days so as to not bother, realized a ton of people had already gotten on lists by asking, finally asked someone--and got my first (and only) 2g for a handful of CB Trios. Now that the Prize owners have gotten all the normal things they want, though, it's just... all but impossible to get into that circle.

 

The only way to really water down that pressure is to increase the number of prizes, which again, I really support. I think the lotto wrecked the DC spirit of "you can get everything if you try" (yes yes, you can still get the sprites, but for the many players who work on lineages that doesn't mean as much). Obviously there are lots of other things in DC that some can never get now (sadly), but CB Prizes are unique in being impossible to get for most and completely dominating the trade market for those who get them. I really wish they could be watered down into something more obtainable... I mean, 2gs from Spriter's Alts still trade for just about anything, but at the same time getting low gens from them feels possible, which is nice.

THIS.

The people who were the most vocal and the least shy.

 

In fact, in my personal opinion, I practically accepted the first trade offered to me via PM since I had no idea of trade values at the time. (I kinda regret that, actually. Though I never really knew anyone at the time so I had no real gifting list and no real idea of how I'd be on DC for the future or what one egg a year meant.)

 

In this way, the people who are rewarded are the least reserved and the least *concerned* about the possible opposition of others to receiving PMs. I personally think that that aspect is ethically wrong. Shouldn't the most considerate people towards others be rewarded, rather than the least considerate people?

Edited by DarkEternity

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THIS.

The people who were the most vocal and the least shy.

 

In fact, in my personal opinion, I practically accepted the first trade offered to me via PM since I had no idea of trade values at the time. (I kinda regret that, actually. Though I never really knew anyone at the time so I had no real gifting list and no real idea of how I'd be on DC for the future or what one egg a year meant.)

 

In this way, the people who are rewarded are the least reserved and the least *concerned* about the possible opposition of others to receiving PMs. I personally think that that aspect is ethically wrong. Shouldn't the most considerate people towards others be rewarded, rather than the least considerate people?

Completely agree. But the more considerate people are the quiet ones that don't want to bother. How will those be noticed if they aren't the first to shower the winners with cb golds? I did like how one of the winners this year randomly gifted people who instead of right away offering trades, gave advice and congratulations. And there was one winner that gifted every single offspring their dragon had in the dc lotto as well (even though some people were mean, imo, to that person). It doesn't make them better than the other winners of course, but it was nice gesture towards the other users

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I like #4 and #6, though with the multiclutch thing maybe let the owner keep all the eggs instead of dumping all but one in the AP for sake of controlling where they go. Also if they planned to keep a few 2nd gens then it wouldnt take as long as taking multiple weeks of collecting them first and /then/ breeding for others.

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I mean, 2gs from Spriter's Alts still trade for just about anything

That's not necessarily true. It depends on just how many of those 2nd gens from that particular flavor of spriter's alts there are out there. My golden shadow walkers, for example, do still trade for some nice things, but they aren't really considered rare because I'm quite active in gifting and trading them.

 

By the same token, if you look at certain tinsel lines they are considered less rare because there are more of that line out among the general population. Therefore they have less "trade value" - a completely subjective valuation that nonetheless influences what you can do with the egg.

 

Like DarkEternity, I don't get bombarded with requests for eggs from my Shadows. I do get the occasional PM, and I have a line in my sig that garners a few PMs. I also find a few trade posts that specifically say "2nd gens from spriter's alts but no Shadow Walkers." They aren't considered all that rare anymore. (which is fine by me)

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I support more people being able to win the raffle. And... that's about it.

 

Every single Prize Dragon I have on my scroll is either crazy-lineaged or 5+gen. And I'm fine with that, because I have Tinsels and (a) Shimmer on my scroll. I don't care about being the first one to have an offspring... I don't want to get anywhere near *that* mess.

 

I guess I'm just saying... I don't understand the big deal. I'd *like* more people to be able to win in the first place, but if that can't happen... Just be patient. Tinsels are dang near common now.

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I definitely think a fixed percentage would be nice. I like 20-25% of participants to be winners (including honored mentions).

 

The breakdown could be something like:

1% - Gold

3% - Silver

6% - Bronze (That number is weird but it would have meant Gold being 2%, Silver being 4%, going into decimal-percentages, or having 11-16% for HM. I'll let the weirdness be here, as it at least doubles from Silver.)

10-15% - HM

 

I guess you could push it down to only 10-15% of participants...

 

1% - Gold

2% - Silver

3% - Bronze

5-10% - HM

 

1% may seem small but with lots of participants it's really not that bad. 20% would be a fifth of the entrants and 25% would be a whopping fourth (though really it's only an increase of HMs), which is why I suggested a lower amount of 10-15%. 10% would be a tenth, which is still fairly a lot but seems pretty fair. 15% is a weird number but would give more HMs.

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There is, actually, a fairly perfect event that could be used as a 2nd raffle event. DC's birthday is May 20. Though that isn't exactly 6 months from December 25, it's close. It's an annual occurrence that we already celebrate to some extent.

 

I don't know how TJ would feel about having a 2nd annual raffle to celebrate DC's birthday, but if we were going to do it that would be a natural choice.

But not being a Holiday means many players may not even have time to be here for that day and may miss any raffle, which is not an issue during December/January.

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But not being a Holiday means many players may not even have time to be here for that day and may miss any raffle, which is not an issue during December/January.

That's rather what I was thinking.... I know I am very often on the road then, and without internet; it's hard enough to pick up the new releases, never mind another raffle.

 

But I would willingly agree that the fact that we all have different lifestyles isn't a reason to rule out any particular time of year for raffles - just - Christmas seems to work as so many of us are home for the holiday - especially as TJ keeps it all running for several days. I can't think of another time of year that has so many of us "available"....

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Maybe have the entries for the raffle open for a week or so beforehand? I'm all for more raffles, but the timing is an issue if you only have entries open for the one day.

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Just because a raffle might be centered around DC's birthday doesn't mean TJ couldn't/wouldn't make sure there was a solid week for the raffle event. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that he would. The DC birthday celebration this year lasted a week. For an online game, to turn 7 years old is pretty impressive. Turning 7+ would also be pretty impressive, so why not take a week to celebrate it?

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Maybe have the entries for the raffle open for a week or so beforehand? I'm all for more raffles, but the timing is an issue if you only have entries open for the one day.

...There isn't just one day to enter the raffle. Entries are determined based on participation in whatever the Christmas event is, which, I believe, goes on for 1-2 weeks. Plenty of time to get an entry in.

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...There isn't just one day to enter the raffle. Entries are determined based on participation in whatever the Christmas event is, which, I believe, goes on for 1-2 weeks. Plenty of time to get an entry in.

They are talking about a potential raffle around dc's birthday

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They are talking about a potential raffle around dc's birthday

My bad. laugh.gif Then yeah, I agree that having entries open for at least a week would be the most fair option.

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But not being a Holiday means many players may not even have time to be here for that day and may miss any raffle, which is not an issue during December/January.

I'd argue that the opposite is more true; a lot of people are off visiting family / friends on Holidays, and might not have the time (or even the internet access!) to get on during 'em. Whereas a general day in... late Summer, right? Shouldn't be that big a deal, especially if it's a week-long event.

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I'd argue that the opposite is more true; a lot of people are off visiting family / friends on Holidays, and might not have the time (or even the internet access!) to get on during 'em. Whereas a general day in... late Summer, right? Shouldn't be that big a deal, especially if it's a week-long event.

And also things like cooking/Christmas dish preparing for holidays.

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In favor of:

Suggestion 1: Increased number of prizes:

I can see this one. While it would make the prizes worth less to a degree, the odds of winning are better and that would make more folks happy. Winning an end of season raffle would not seem such an impossible feat.

 

Suggestion 5: Retired prizes to the HM list

I am in favor of this.

 

Impartial to:

Suggestion 4: multi-clutch

That could be fun, but I would make the chance of siblings uncommon. Most of the time breed the single egg, with a chance now and again for twins, just as a surprise.

 

Nope, don't do it:

Suggestion 6: prizes drop their eggs for a set time

Not wild about that. Some of the fun of breeding is not knowing which breed the egg will be, even if it's frustrating.

 

Sugestion 3: dull variants for everyone.

No. Prize dragons are special because they're rare and are received at random. Having everyone suddenly get one makes them seem less special, and personally, as the actual prize winner of that year, I would feel somewhat cheated. As a rare in the cave, this could mean people can grab as many that they want, and while user A has six or seven, user B has none and that still really doesn't solve anything about spreading the prize dragon love. I would rather have a gen 9 prize six months from now, than be taunted with a CB I can never catch.

 

Suggestion 7: retired becomes in-cave rares

No. Please no. They will loose specialness. Do not add past prizes to the cave. What then is the point of a special raffle with special dragons, if in a few years everyone can have one? Adding them to the HM list (suggestion 5) will make them like Hollies: special to have, and gradually more common without going overboard.

 

I don't understand this big outcry that everyone has to have a prize dragon. It's a PRIZE for crying out loud in a random game. Not everyone wins. And not everyone should win. I haven't won. I don't have any 2nd gens or even 3rd gen prize breeds, but that doesn't make me any less happy for the people who did win that special prize and covet their darling. It's their right. They got luck and WON the honor by chance.

 

I tell you one thing - if I ever won a prize dragon, I would not keep a list and I would not take requests. I would do my own thing in some weird yet to be determined way...

That totally made me laugh laugh.gif If I won I know exactly what I'm going to do with my dragon. I have a list and a plan. cool.gif But we agree about the status of requests.

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I'd argue that the opposite is more true; a lot of people are off visiting family / friends on Holidays, and might not have the time (or even the internet access!) to get on during 'em. Whereas a general day in... late Summer, right? Shouldn't be that big a deal, especially if it's a week-long event.

Christmas one tends to be - yes with family and so on, and with loads to DO - but in places with internet. Holiday season can mean in a campsite miles from anywhere. In Australia this fall, I had internet for three days out of a month.

 

Not that I'm saying that means my life should dictate the date xd.png, just pointing out that summer is in many ways more problematic.

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Just because a raffle might be centered around DC's birthday doesn't mean TJ couldn't/wouldn't make sure there was a solid week for the raffle event. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that he would. The DC birthday celebration this year lasted a week. For an online game, to turn 7 years old is pretty impressive. Turning 7+ would also be pretty impressive, so why not take a week to celebrate it?

 

 

I must say that I rather like this idea...

 

Especially if it was annual, and there were draws also including each type of older Prize dragons, with older ones as additional prizes to the HM, as a means of potentially adding in replacements for players/CB Prize dragons going missing...

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