ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[Wymsical]

Well, I usually have a note in my sig saying I breed by request, but it is not there right now.

 

I would hate to see things restricted this much. Perhaps make it that it is considered harrassment if you PM someone who has specifically asked that you do NOT? That way if a prize winner puts something like that in their sig it would be punishable to PM them.

Well I personally can see how the rule is extreme. It is just my opinion that if you were to make a rule like that, why should it solely be for one specific type of dragon? If people were suddenly bombarding me for requests from the dragon whose code is true, I'd surely have to end up making a special exception for him. He's nothing special beyond his code. There's also plenty of other rare dragons aside from Prizes, as well.

 

To me, personally, harassment is somebody PMing me multiple times and/or being rude/trying to guilt-trip me into giving them something. For people who just simply don't read, I'd just block them.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Commander Wymsy

[dragonpuck]

If that were to happen, it should be just be a general rule for all dragons. No asking for offspring from anything, no matter what kind of dragon it is, unless the owner publicly states that it is okay. Yeah I know Prizes are the issue at hand here, but if you were to make a rule like that it's better to just extend it to every dragon. There's more than just Prizes that people would beg for offspring from.

 

Or may be a checkbox_"I read your rules before I PM'd" Not sure either is a practical solution..because there will be those who feel entitled to break rules, a "In my case these rules don't apply" mentality.

 

A way to turn PM's off might help--- but hinder normal communications-

There may be no practical solution. But I believe that a number of Prizes proportional to the number of players helps the most.

 

The new winners should be warned of the pitfalls, especially if they are newbies. TJ could do that when he e-mails and set down the procedure for reporting "harassment"

 

 

Make them unbreedable for 3 months

 

[Fuzzbucket]

Edit: @fuzzbucket, so if you like filling out requests why not just put something about it in your profile or signature? It takes up barely any space and I can tell you, you will not get a large volume of PMs by doing so.

Please do look at my sig. (Oops the breed for free bit seems to have fallen off when I deleted the "thanks for helping my mate" the other day. One moment. It WAS there a few days ago, honest ! I'm sure someone here can verify !)

 

Thank you for pointing that out ! - I DO in principle have that in my sig ! And I do again, now.. And no - I don't get flooded, that is perfectly true.

Edited December 31, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Wymsical]

Or may be a checkbox_"I read your rules before I PM'd" Not sure either is a practical solution..because there will be those who feel entitled to break rules, a "In my case these rules don't apply" mentality.

 

A way to turn PM's off might help--- but hinder normal communications-

There may be no practical solution. But I  believe that a number of Prizes proportional to the number of players helps the most.

 

The new winners should be warned of the pitfalls, especially if they are newbies. TJ could do that when he e-mails and set down the  procedure for reporting "harassment"

 

 

Make them unbreedable for 3 months

I was about to tell you that there is a way to turn off PMs, and went to look for the option and saw it wasn't there. Guess it isn't on this version of IPB, or TJ disabled that for whatever reason.

 

Anyway, informing winners about harassment seems like a good start. To add onto this, which admittedly has nothing to do with harassment, stating more about when you'll actually get the egg. There was no ETA given, you just get it randomly with no warning or contact. Based on some of the things I read from earlier in the year, this still seems to be the case with Prizes being handed out.

 

@fuzzbucket, yeah I made sure to read your profile before saying what I did. I'd just be a massive hypocrite if I didn't, seeing as how much I don't tolerate people who can't be bothered to read simple things that are right on display for them to read.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Commander Wymsy

[Vhale]

Seems like it could be a good idea for former prize winners to form an advice thread on what they did to handle all the requests, what worked for them, what didn't. (beyond what's being discussed here)

[Fuzzbucket]

I was about to tell you that there is a way to turn off PMs, and went to look for the option and saw it wasn't there. Guess it isn't on this version of IPB, or TJ disabled that for whatever reason.

 

Anyway, informing winners about harassment seems like a good start. To add onto this, which admittedly has nothing to do with harassment, stating more about when you'll actually get the egg. There was no ETA given, you just get it randomly with no warning or contact. Based on some of the things I read from earlier in the year, this still seems to be the case with Prizes being handed out.

 

@fuzzbucket, yeah I made sure to read your profile before saying what I did. I'd just be a massive hypocrite if I didn't, seeing as how much I don't tolerate people who can't be bothered to read simple things that are right on display for them to read.

I realise you did and all is now re-added ! I'm glad you mentioned it as I never intended to delete that bit !

 

You can block individuals' PMs and I have done a few who bugged me. I do recall a thread asking for the facility to block all PMs and TJ nixed it - I can't remember why, but I don't think it's such a bad thing. (I know I have been frantically PMing someone whose very much wanted egg I managed to snag in the AP. If she'd had them turned off I'd have been stuck with it and she would have lost out !)

 

Seems like it could be a good idea for former prize winners to form an advice thread on what they did to handle all the requests, what worked for them, what didn't. (beyond what's being discussed here)

I would never post in such a thread - it would draw attention to my having a prize, among Those Who Might With Any Luck Have Forgotten.

Edited December 31, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Forelle]

I like Suggestion #1, #5, #6 and #7.

I'm also really happy that there's a discussion about it and hope some things will change in the future. :3

[Amazon_warrior]

I believe that is is the sheer volume of PM's that feels like harassment.

I was gifted a 2nd gen shimmer. The only way anyone else could have known was by stalking the prize owners scroll. I got a bunch of requests before it was even hatched!

I refused all the ridiculous IOU offers and finally put a don't pm me in my sig.

Even polite PMs can be overwhelming( I only blocked one player who pm'd repeatedly), but I can see how the amount could drive people to either not breed at all or to leave. They really aren't reportable , but you can feel harassed just the same.

 

Short of not having prize dragons I don't see any way to avoid some level of "harassment".

 

The people who PM asking for offspring, probably think they are being very polite. The problem is that there are 500 of them!

 

Hopefully I won't have to do that again

This, basically. It's why I don't, even now, publicise my list for 2nd gens. Also, sorry 'bout that Dragonpuck! *hugs*

 

I actually haven't had any PMs regarding Luckiest Catch that I could really call harassing or that I couldn't deal with. It's mostly the sheer volume of PMs, especially right after I announced my stroke of luck on the forum (which in retrospect was a *really* dumb thing to do). It's much better now, but only because I have to have "Don't PM me!" plastered everywhere and even then I still get the odd hopeful PM. I don't want to report those people for being hopeful, but I do tend to ignore them because, well, I've asked that people not PM me. *shrugs* It probably helps a lot that I was a fairly established forum-goer beforehand, too. I can see how a newcomer to the forums could become completely overwhelmed.

 

(I'm pondering writing The Amazon Warrior's Guide to CB Prize Ownership!)

[Vhale]

(I'm pondering writing The Amazon Warrior's Guide to CB Prize Ownership!)

It might be helpful

I'm willing to bet most go through the same people/motions/scenarios and it might help new persons avoid some learning bumps and bruises. We might even get some ideas out of it. While I support the whole prize ratio to population thing, it's not necessarily the only thing to do. I think one of the shimmerscale owners only gave away eggs on IRC for several months and one only announced on trades. People have definitely tried different things, however well they worked.

[lilacamy931]

I'm pondering writing The Amazon Warrior's Guide to CB Prize Ownership!

 

Go for it there is a need - fill it! Especially for newer users or owners

[Syphoneira]

Well, considering that the extreme rarity of the Prize dragons is what's created various issues such as:

 

the fastest people collecting perhaps literally dozens of CB Golds or Blusangs to try for 2nd gen Prize dragon lists and, relative to shortages, altering once-diverse trade threads into competitions for low-gen Prizes,

 

decreasing the odds of slower people obtaining ANY of these and creating further shortages by creating increased rarity of these other sprites among the general population,

 

and with many then regarding such dragons as merely trade fodder, rather than as dragons valued for what they are,

 

as the overall emphasis has come off collecting dragons for the sake of the dragons/lineages into a value system based on the trading value of various Prize dragons and CB Golds

 

(or the rarest of the otherwise [created uber-] rare, as with Blusangs for quite some time)

 

often apparently the the only means of gaining low-gen Prizes, other than blood swaps between Prize winners,

 

scarcity being also the source of the degree of harassment by those desperate to obtain lower gens, or, initially, any at all, of the Prize dragons, from a tiny pool of lucky winners potentially having their joy spoilt either by being unable to populate the Cave to make people happy or having a non-exploding inbox and even rude and demanding PMs,

 

my personal hopes are for a much larger, percentage-based number of Prize dragons being given out in future, with these breeding like commons and producing multi-clutches,

 

so that the Cave/trading can return to some semblance of normalcy while players actually have fun with the raffles, being sure of obtaining decent specimens at some reasonable point in the future by more than one method and a steadily growing pool of CB/low-gen owners, many of whom may tend to gift a lot.

 

Shortage situations don't work well for most, and in at least some cases, this can include the lucky winners.

 

When prosperity spreads for all, the 'economy' and happiness booms, and this is as true in DC as it is in RL.

 

If I ever won one of these, I would love it if my dragon produced multi-clutches, even if it was likely that only the fastest would get them off the AP.

 

Anyone not aware of lineages who bred a nice 2nd gen to their 14th-gen Balloon would doubtless quickly be shown the ropes the first time they offered an offspring in trade...

 

But the more people with Prize CBs and low-gens, the sooner this whole thing can become pure fun, rather than stressful for virtually all concerned, and the sooner we can start appreciating the sprites and pretty common lineages of all of the dragons we like, without wondering what they're 'worth' as a sprite in trade for one we've not obtained.

[Fuzzbucket]

I tell you one thing - if I ever won a prize dragon, I would not keep a list and I would not take requests. I would do my own thing in some weird yet to be determined way...

[Fiona]

If there are 10,000 active scrolls (a "guesstimate" based on how many scrolls are entered on one popular fansite, multiplied by 2) then giving out 100 prizes would be approximately equal to a 1 in 100 chance of winning. This seems like a reasonable enough percentage, though the chance of winning an actual prize dragon is about half that. That's considerably better chances than the odds of winning a few million in an official lottery, such as the ones fuzzbucket linked.

 

However, a 1 in 100 or 1 in 200 chance of winning a prize dragon still seems a lot like "no chance, too bad" to most of us. Maybe if the chance of winning an actual prize dragon were increased to 1 in 100, and then an equal number of HM prizes were given out we'd feel like we have a more reasonable chance. That is, link the number of prizes to the number of entries and give out 1% of that number. 10,000 entries = 100 prize dragons awarded. 15,000 entries = 150 prize dragons awarded.

 

That seems like a lot of prizes given out, yet your individual chance is still only 1 out of 100. Pretty small odds.

 

I don't believe anything can be done to convince prize winners to stay in greater numbers. It is, and always will be, individual choice whether or not to continue to play the game. Making sure they're aware of the available avenues to deal with harassment would likely help some, but to some degree the ability to cope with the eager bombardment of PMs asking for a way to get 2nd gens is an individual issue. I may brush off requests and demands more easily than another user, or be more ready to report PMs that seem over the top, where another user might be overwhelmed by them.

 

I am completely in favor of making former prize dragons available as HM prizes though, with at least one year gap between being "the prize dragon" and being available as HM. In part this opinion is due to my sadness in looking for a CB male gold tinsel owner who might be willing to arrange a trade so I could have a "proper" mate for her. There simply aren't any known male gold tinsels anymore except Apollo. Sad. So I see that already the breeding stock of cb tinsels is fading.

 

TJ has already commented, but I'd be totally opposed to any system that made your chances of winning based on how long you've been around or what dragons you've already obtained. Talk about unfair. There are enough things in life already that are inherently unfair without slanting the game that way.

 

ETA: a "Users Guide to CB Prize Dragon Ownership" would likely be received with gratitude by many, particularly as those who are not cb prize owners would see some hints about what not to do. Of course, each cb prize owner would have different approaches to sharing their 2nd gens, but suggestions from someone who's been there would only be helpful. I say, Doit, AW.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Fiona BlueFire

[Renorei]

Well the number of prizes was already doubled last year, and I think that worked better than previous years.

 

Does it need to increase again? I'm not sure.

 

I should check the number of participants last year vs this year.

Personally I think the number of prizes, relative to the amount of active scrolls, is completely fine as-is. If the number of active scrolls increases then I could see how the number of prizes given out should increase by a corresponding percentage but I would rather it never got higher than that. It's great that they are rare and special and I wouldn't want that to change.

 

I can understand why some users are against the idea of older users or users with more dragons being able to get more chances at raffle entries, but what if the way the raffle is done (for next year) is altered a bit to reward long-term usage? For example, for the year 2014, what if there was a small task to complete each month (something really really simple and easy), and if you completed the tasks for all 12 months you get a raffle entry? This would simultaneously reward users who logged into DC at least once a month for the whole year, and it would also show that they are dedicated enough to keep coming back and are probably a good person to give a prize dragon to? If that's unreasonable, perhaps users who complete 1 task could get one entry, users who complete at least 4 tasks could get 2 entries, users who complete at least 8 tasks could get 7 entries, and users who complete all 12 get 12 entries. So everyone gets entries but the rewards grow the closer you get to completing all of them.

 

Some will say that this obviously disadvantages people who join in the middle of the year, and I'm not going to disagree with that. But at the same time, I don't think that's a reasonable argument because having CB hollies be only available in the cave in Christmas 2007 "disadvantages" someone who joined in 2011. Users who joined later can always catch or trade for a lineaged holly, just as users who join midway through the year can always catch/trade for a prize if they don't win (although they will still have a chance to get some entries so they definitely still stand a chance of winning).

 

The suggestion I have liked most of all is that prize dragons often multi-clutch prize eggs. That seems to me like a great way to keep the CB prizes just as rare as they are, while at the same time "spreading the wealth around" a bit.

 

Regarding PM harassment of CB prize owners, to be honest I think a lot of that can be prevented by the owners themselves. I've noticed the last couple of years in the raffle threads, quite a few prize winners announced that they won in the threads, which tells zealous collectors exactly who to PM if they are looking for a prize dragon egg, which probably leads to a lot of CB prize owners feeling "bothered." Here are some ways that could be mitigated a bit:

 

1. When the raffle winners get their e-mail that tells them they won, put a note in the e-mail strongly encouraging them not to publicize that they won, and also explain why.

 

2. In the first post of the raffle thread, ask users who won not to announce that they won.

 

3. When people offer an egg through Teleport, allow them to offer it anonymously. So if a CB prize owner sees a nice trade in the trading subforum, he or she can offer a 2nd gen egg without the other user being able to see their user name.

 

4. As you mentioned already, harsher penalties for PM harassment of CB prize owners. Exactly what constitutes PM harassment will need to be explained in detail. Is any contact of a CB prize owner about an egg from their dragon harassment? Or is it only harassment if you aren't "offering enough"?

 

5. Maybe each CB Prize owner could fill out a little form (like the artist usage forum for their sprites), which could be saved to an image and go in their signature, which would tell other users exactly in what circumstances it's okay to contact them (i.e. Yes/No it's okay to contact me for a gift, Yes/No it's okay to contact me for a trade, You must be offering at least X if you are trying to trade with me, I Do/Do Not accept IOUS, etc.), and if users violate that, temporarily ban them from the forums? Or whatever other punishment you had in mind?

Edited December 31, 2013 by Renorei

[Fiona]

I would personally probably post that I'd won, (or if I were fortunate enough to be one of the sprite artists on a future prize dragon it would be public knowledge) along with putting something regarding trading/gifting policies in my profile and/or sig. But I'm not all that sensitive regarding PMs, I've been around enough to have a good handle on who/how/what in the forum and am not shy about the Report button.

 

People whose nature it is to try to make everyone happy, to be generous, to hate thinking they've gotten someone else in trouble, may not cope as well with the bombardment, so for them not advertising would be best. But in their excitement of winning they seem like the most likely to advertise as well, wanting the share their good fortune. I can see these sorts being more easily overwhelmed by the begging/demanding or even polite asking. Still, it must be up to individuals to decide whether to make their good fortune known.

 

There's no simple solution, I think. Having more prizes available so the demand is spread out more helped last year. Spreading that further may help even more. (i.e. give out more prizes) We don't want the odds of winning to be so high that TJ might was well just give one to everyone.

[olympe]

You know, I think part of the harassment could be avoided if only we had an in-game "market" where our trades got publicized (if we so desired). This way, putting up trades anonymously would be possible, and prize owners wouldn't have to worry about trading away their 2nd gen eggs.

 

That being said - do prize dragons have to come in three varieties (plus spriter's alt)? Because, well, if there are fewer varieties, people won't feel like they'll have to have at least one of each. Much less having to have one of the rarest kind ASAP, no matter what it takes.

Edited December 31, 2013 by olympe

[Fuzzbucket]

I can understand why some users are against the idea of older users or users with more dragons being able to get more chances at raffle entries, but what if the way the raffle is done (for next year) is altered a bit to reward long-term usage? For example, for the year 2014, what if there was a small task to complete each month (something really really simple and easy), and if you completed the tasks for all 12 months you get a raffle entry? This would simultaneously reward users who logged into DC at least once a month for the whole year, and it would also show that they are dedicated enough to keep coming back and are probably a good person to give a prize dragon to?

NO. That makes it not a raffle. Length of playing is NOT a fair criterion. Mercifully TJ has already ruled it out.

 

A raffle is open to all on an equal basis.

 

Someone who joined the day before this year's event started could be a FAR "better" winner than someone who joined in 2008 and isn't REALLY interested, just likes to try and win things, for instance.

[Sheriziya]

Unfortunately I've never won a raffle, but I've gotten nicely lineaged prize dragons from very generous gifters (no, they were not 2nd gens, but I don't care about that so much...).

 

I would like to have a higher chance to win a prize dragon though. If only to have the possibility to surprise others like other players have surprised me

 

So... here are my "two" cents on the suggestions from the OP as well some others I've read in the thread. Warning: this is a looooong post........ Sorry for that.

 

As a base point:

Personally I think many people will always complain the chances are too low to win, no matter which (combination of) suggestion(s) gets chosen. There's a certain group, (I mean in general with all kinds of lotteries!) that will always complain about the win chance. At least here everyone has a chance. I also play an MMORPG and there only people from the USA, UK, France and Germany are included in contests. All other countries (while there's a large European and Asian base!) are excluded. Apparently it's "legaly complicated". And yet, this also goes for digital only prizes. So.... I'm already very happy I can enter a raffle here without being excluded because of the country I live in

 

Also, I think people shouldn't be so greedy. Be happy with a 10th gen prize dragon instead of wanting a 2nd gen at all cost and harassing the winners of the CB prizes about it! (mind you, this is a personal pet peeve of mine although Ihaven't really voiced it here yet... Is that what it's called... a pet peeve?)

Respect their decision NOT to breed or gift to friends first before gifting to people they don't know.

 

I do realize players would like to see the new dragons (if there's a new breed). I know I'd love to see a possible new prize dragon. A solution for that could be that TJ puts the number 1, 2 and 3 on his own scroll as well to show everyone what they'll look like. That way everyone's satisfied as far knowing the look. And maybe the new eggs might suffer less from being viewbombed.

 

So... my "two cents" on the suggestions.....

 

Suggestion #1

At first glance I really, really, really like the idea of having a higher percentage of entries actually winning a prize. I don't know what the percentage previous years was, although TJ already stated last years the amount of prizes was already doubled last year. According to the wiki there was a total of 60 prize dragons last year (gold: 10; silver: 20; bronze: 30). I don't know how many participants there were, but let's say it's 1,000 (which I can imagine), than we're talking about 6% of the total entries. And than there were 40 HM (so, 4%). I do assume, though, there were a lot more participants then 1,000 players, thus making the percentages smaller. This makes for a very small chance to actually win a prize. On the other hand, if you look at the big lotteries, the chances are in fact much smaller. So.... Higher percentage, I'm all for it. BUT...... How high should it be? I don't know. Is 1% enough? is 10 % enough? Or should it be 20%? When do we think a certain percentage is enough? When will it stop the people saying they didn't have a fair chance on winning a special dragon and not being to get a special dragon from the breeders? So, although I like the idea.... I don't think this is going to solve anything persé. But it might lighten the problem.

 

Suggestion #2

I like the idea of having multiple raffles. Especially the idea where previous winners have the option to choose/vote for the dragons to be released during/around this raffle. And like it's stated, a Summer Solstice event during a time when there's not much to do can bring more action into the cave. I like it!

But at the same time.... Doesn't solve the problem at the root. It does lighten the problem, I think.

 

Suggestion #3

I think this is a nice idea too. Especially an option where we have a holiday style flood of the cave with the consolation dragon and after that the dragon is rare.

But, like others have already stated, there will always be (a lot?) of people who'll want the true prize dragon and not settle for the consolation dragon.

And.... In a raffle there are winners and loosers. With a consolation prize, how many true winners do we actually get? After all, everyone wins that way. And we do have a consolation prize, of sorts, as the Honorable Mentions. Granted, not everyone gets those, but still.... We'd have place 1, 2 and 3 (for respectively 10, 20 and 30 players), Consolation prizes in the form of Honorable Mentions (for 40 other players) AND Consolation prizes in the form of other colored prize dragons (for all other participants in the raffle).

What I expect? Everyone wins, but we'll still have massive complaints from those who didn't get place 1, 2 or 3 and can't get 2nd/3rd/4th/etc gen fast enough for their liking.

 

And I have to agree with people who really want to build lineages with the prize dragons. For those people the real prize dragon would be the one thing they're looking for.

 

So... in the basics it's an interesting idea, but I doubt if it's a true solution for the problem.

 

Suggestion #4

I'm split about this. On one hand I think multiclutch prize eggs would be extremely helpful! I don't know what the actual breeding rate of the prize dragons currently is. I only have tried to breed one Tinsel with a Heartseeker once without a result (luckily it was not a refusal as the the lineage is just great!). It was the first and only time I've tried to breed a prize dragon so far. But if the wiki is correct, the producing rate will probably low (with the dragon being a rare dragon).

With the extra dragons going to the AP it would give (theoretically) more people a chance to get a (2nd or higher gen) prize dragon. I love the fact the holidays have multiclutches so that I can breed them knowing I'll be able to spread the joy of the holidays at the same time to several people

On the other hand I also see a downside to this. This year with the ability to keep more of the older holidays I've seen people actually hoarding the older holidays. And many of them did NOT hoard them to gift others who didn't have an older holiday.

I can see this happening with multiclutches from prize dragons as well. So... instead of more people getting the eggs, the eggs will be clustered with those who are fast enough clickers to hoard them from the AP..... That's my fear with this suggestion.

 

So, in the end, I'm afraid I'll have to vote against this option.

 

Suggestion #5

Having an extra level of prize dragons which would be a retired prize dragon could indeed work. Especially if they're added to the HM options once there's a new retired prize dragon. It will give HM winners a chance to get CB prize dragons too, albeit retired dragons and IF they decide to breed these dragons, more players could have a chance on getting 2nd gen prize dragons.

 

Suggestion 6

I assume you mean Prize dragons will breed ONLY prize dragons, instead of a prize one time and the other breed the other time? I also assume you don't mean prize dragons should stop producing prize dragons after the first x months?

Going on the above assumptions I think this can work. But I can imagine there are people who would like to have checkered lineages (and thus need the other breed....). This option would imply they'd have to wait longer before they can start the lineage they want.

 

Suggestion #7

This is a variation of the options named under three. I do like the way it's expanded though. I think a slight change to the original sprite and than have it added into the cave as a rare after it's been retired for about a year or two is an interesting alternative.

I know everyone thinks the spriter's alts are awesome, but it's "simply" a recognition of what they did (and mind you, I love all the spriter's alts! don't get me wrong ). The Spriter's alts isn't necessarily something people WANT (at least I don't see people "screaming" they want the spriter's alt), so a small change to the sprite and than release it to the cave could have the same...... value (is that what I'm looking for?)

It has a chance, I think.

 

New suggestion?

Perhaps suggestion 1, 5 and 7 could be combined? Like the following:

Base: Take a percentage of entries for winners instead of an absolute amount of winners and up the percentages of both 1st place, 2nd place, 3rd place and the HM

Year 1: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle

Year 2: special dragon 1 for prizes in raffle

Year 3: special dragon 2 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 retires and becomes available for HM as CB

Year 4: Same as year 3

Year 5: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 1 becomes available as a rare dragon in the cave. Special dragon 2 becomes available for HM as CB

Year 6: Special dragon 3 for prizes in raffle, Special dragon 2 is still available for HM as CB

Year 7: Special dragon 4 for prizes in raffle, special dragon 2 becomes available as a rare dragon in the cave, special dragon 3 becomes available for HM as CB.

etc.

I'm still in doubt if the sprites for the cave releases should be adjusted.

 

Granted, with this scheme it would take a while before the dragon becomes available in the cave, but it would become available. It will give the prize winners time to breed and get "rich" from breeding, it will be special for them for quite some time, before the prize dragon becomes a "normal" dragon so they'll still have the "I'm a prize winner"-feeling (I know I would ) and in the end more people will be able to get the dragon both through breeding and from in-cave catching.

 

I like Angelicdragonpuppy's comparison with winning money. It's the way I see it too. The prize dragons can breed, so why not spread the joy like we do now with the holidays? Why not let something get back to the community?

 

As for prize winners not feeling "special": what would they prefer? Feeling special because they won the prize dragon and being harrassed on a (very) regular basis about 2nd eggs into "eternity"? Or have a three/four year period in which their dragons are quite exclusive (with the risk of being harrassed) and then being harrassed less because the dragons become availabe in the cave?

 

If I were a prize dragon owner I'd go for the latter option.

 

As for Renorei's suggestion to have "your number of raffle tickets should be influenced at least somewhat by either how long you've been a member of DC, how many dragons you have, or both.". Personally I think that's a very bad idea. Looking at my own scroll, I've been a member here since August 2009. I've got about 400 dragons. I have been on- and offline due to Real Life issues and other interests. Does this mean I'd get more or less tickets than someone who's just started here a few weeks ago? Also, people who have thousands of dragons (I believe DC records has listed someone with 6k dragons) who've been here for years do show they can take of their dragons. But are they giving to the community? (Don't know any of them (well) so I can't say) Will they indeed stay once they've won the coveted dragon? And will they share their joy, in other words: will they breed and send eggs to the AP? Or will they breed for a small select group of friends and not share their joy in any other way? Or will they quit now they've got what they want? There's no way we can tell for sure.

So, I'd definitely say NO to that option.

As for the other suggestion about long-term users having more raffle entries as a reward for small tasks, I don't like that either. It still means people who'd just joined will have a (much) smaller chance to enter the raffle. I do agree that when you've just joined, you simply won't have all the dragons you'd like to have straight from the beginning, but like someone else already said, the raffle in DC is fun, but also not quite in the original spirit of DC. Yes, I like the raffles (and yes, I have never won a raffle up until (and including ) today). And yes, I'm a "long-term" player with quite some offtime as well. I don't feel I should be rewarded in a raffle for being a long-term player. In DC I think everyone should have the same equal chance.

 

Like Fuzzbucket already said, TJ ruled out this way of ticketing for raffles for now:

That said, I'm still against the idea of a raffle in which users don't have equal opportunity to get entries (i.e. users can earn extra chances, but all users have the same potential).

 

Then again, like TJ himself said earlier:

I reserve the right to revise past stances/decisions. That's why I almost never speak in absolutes--it seems my word gets taken as law (which isn't unreasonable, I guess)--so if I speak as if something is guaranteed, then it becomes definite in the minds of users.

 

As for the amount of winners:

Does it need to increase again? I'm not sure.

I think it would be more effective to make a percentage of the entries instead of an absolute number. Granted, like others said, you might get more work as the admin, but it would automatically up the chances for players to get a prize dragon.

 

(I'm pondering writing The Amazon Warrior's Guide to CB Prize Ownership!)

Oh, that would be very helpful, I think! Tips from prize-owners (and 2nd gen owners) is something everyone can use, I think. Especially newbies who were extremely lucky and just won a prize.

 

This I wholeheartedly support!:

Regarding PM harassment of CB prize owners, to be honest I think a lot of that can be prevented by the owners themselves.  I've noticed the last couple of years in the raffle threads, quite a few prize winners announced that they won in the threads, which tells zealous collectors exactly who to PM if they are looking for a prize dragon egg, which probably leads to a lot of CB prize owners feeling "bothered."  Here are some ways that could be mitigated a bit:

 

1.  When the raffle winners get their e-mail that tells them they won, put a note in the e-mail strongly encouraging them not to publicize that they won, and also explain why.

 

2.  In the first post of the raffle thread, ask users who won not to announce that they won.

 

3.  When people offer an egg through Teleport, allow them to offer it anonymously.  So if a CB prize owner sees a nice trade in the trading subforum, he or she can offer a 2nd gen egg without the other user being able to see their user name. 

 

4.  As you mentioned already, harsher penalties for PM harassment of CB prize owners.  Exactly what constitutes PM harassment will need to be explained in detail.  Is any contact of a CB prize owner about an egg from their dragon harassment?  Or is it only harassment if you aren't "offering enough"? 

 

5.  Maybe each CB Prize owner could fill out a little form (like the artist usage forum for their sprites), which could be saved to an image and go in their signature, which would tell other users exactly in what circumstances it's okay to contact them (i.e. Yes/No it's okay to contact me for a gift, Yes/No it's okay to contact me for a trade, You must be offering at least X if you are trying to trade with me, I Do/Do Not accept IOUS, etc.), and if users violate that, temporarily ban them from the forums?  Or whatever other punishment you had in mind?

 

Okay..... I think this is the end.... for now. Have fun this new year's eve, everyone!

[Nakuru]

Suggestion #1: It would be great, specially if the HM are the one increased the most. That way there would be enough prizes to make more players happy, but without making the Prize Dragons less and less rare.

 

Suggestion #2: I don't know why, but I can't really like this option. I guess it's because there isn't a good festivity known for the presents to have another raffle during that date, while December/January fits perfectly for it.

 

Suggestion #3 & #7: TBH I like that prize Dragons are that, prizes; having them in the cave (or different colored versions) would change that completely.

I'm also not sure they would count as a real "consolation prize" as they would be almost as appreciated as the normal prizes (or even more at first, since they would be new and other Prizes have been here for a while), because there would be still few of them at first and people would try to get as many (short) lineages as they can.

 

Suggestion #4: This, TBH, it's a suggestion I love even if the chances for multiclutches were low or a temporal thing (either for a few months or only on certain dates).

 

Suggestion #5: Another suggestion I love, because it would mean previous CB Prize Dragons won't end disappearing as players go inactive.

 

Suggestion #6: Seeing as how low gens are desired not matter how much time passes, I don't think it would change things that much. Yes, CB prize's owners would be able to gift them to their friends and fulfill any IOU faster and all, but that's it. In the end, it wouldn't change things enough to be called an improvement.

 

 

Also...

You know, I think part of the harassment could be avoided if only we had an in-game "market" where our trades got publicized (if we so desired). This way, putting up trades anonymously would be possible, and prize owners wouldn't have to worry about trading away their 2nd gen eggs.

IA with this so much.

 

I would make thing better for prize owners and I think it could (depending on how it's done) make trading an easier thing that going though posts on the trading forum. Win/Win.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Nakuru

[Renorei]

NO. That makes it not a raffle. Length of playing is NOT a fair criterion. Mercifully TJ has already ruled it out.

 

A raffle is open to all on an equal basis.

 

Someone who joined the day before this year's event started could be a FAR "better" winner than someone who joined in 2008 and isn't REALLY interested, just likes to try and win things, for instance.

The criterion isn't length of playing, though. The criterion is completing the tasks. Thus it is open to everyone on an equal basis because everyone gets to make their own choice about when/if they join DC and whether they participate in tasks. It's very much equal opportunity, it's just equal opportunity stretched over a whole year rather than just the few weeks surround the holiday raffle. Nobody is stopping anyone from joining DC if they haven't already.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Renorei

[Fuzzbucket]

I am SURE there were more than 1000 entries last year. WAY more.

 

The criterion isn't length of playing, though.  The criterion is completing the tasks.  Thus it is open to everyone on an equal basis because everyone gets to make their own choice about when/if they join DC and whether they participate in tasks.  It's very much equal opportunity, it's just equal opportunity stretched over a whole year rather than just the few weeks surround the holiday raffle.  Nobody is stopping anyone from joining DC if they haven't already.

If someone only heard about DC two days before an event, they didn't "make the choice" to join only then, they joined the instant they heard about the game - and I don't think they should be disadvantaged for not knowing the game existed.

 

I'd have been here from day 1 if I had known about it. I could equally well say it's your fault I don't have a CB Holly from 2008, because you didn't tell me the game was there for me to get one...

 

Both these are absurd arguments in my view.

Edited December 31, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Wymsical]

The criterion isn't length of playing, though. The criterion is completing the tasks. Thus it is open to everyone on an equal basis because everyone gets to make their own choice about when/if they join DC and whether they participate in tasks. It's very much equal opportunity, it's just equal opportunity stretched over a whole year rather than just the few weeks surround the holiday raffle. Nobody is stopping anyone from joining DC if they haven't already.

The very nature of your suggestion works on the length of time the individual has been playing. You can say all you want that it doesn't, but it does.

[DragonLady86]

Suggestion #1

. I don't know what the percentage previous years was, although TJ already stated last years the amount of prizes was already doubled last year. According to the wiki there was a total of 60 prize dragons last year (gold: 10; silver: 20; bronze: 30). I don't know how many participants there were, but let's say it's 1,000 (which I can imagine), than we're talking about 6% of the total entries.

 

I don't know about last year. but the first year there were over 9,000 trees entered and only 30 prizes given out. plus 20 HM. so, a very very little percentage.

[Fiona]

Suggestion #2: I don't know why, but I can't really like this option. I guess it's because there isn't a good festivity known for the presents to have another raffle during that date, while December/January fits perfectly for it.

There is, actually, a fairly perfect event that could be used as a 2nd raffle event. DC's birthday is May 20. Though that isn't exactly 6 months from December 25, it's close. It's an annual occurrence that we already celebrate to some extent.

 

I don't know how TJ would feel about having a 2nd annual raffle to celebrate DC's birthday, but if we were going to do it that would be a natural choice.

[Fuzzbucket]

I don't know about last year. but the first year there were over 9,000 trees entered and only 30 prizes given out. plus 20 HM. so, a very very little percentage.

Thanks. That was the kind of figure I thought. 1% of participants getting prizes would seem fair to me. That would have given 90 in total, that year. Not TOO many, I thjnk