ANSWERED:Suggestions to improve the raffle

[snave]

No. Don't mess with the raffles. Prizes should be rare.

 

If the problem is that people are abusing PMs, then ban people who abuse PMs.

 

Anything else boils down to "I want a better chance to get one," and that defeats the purpose of prize dragons.

 

[Melisande]

I was away for a few years so I have not been here during a raffle, but reading the choices in the first topic I like the first and second options.

 

Having more than one raffle and having more winners. With the ever growing number of people who play DC it makes sense to have more winners than in previous years, and having more than one raffle makes it fair for people who can not participate in a winter one due to work/family obligations over the holidays.

 

The dragons would still be rare, and 2 gen would still be rare, but more people would have them. Like how a lot of people have Holly dragons now and they are still rare but more people have them.

 

I would not want to see prize dragons that are older or recolored given out to every one or in the cave... that would defeat the purpose of the raffle.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Melisande

[WraithZephyr]

Seems like it could be a good idea for former prize winners to form an advice thread on what they did to handle all the requests, what worked for them, what didn't. (beyond what's being discussed here)

I think the spriter/owner of Jewel had a pretty good strategy. I think if I remember rightly more or less said very clear up front... no 2nd gens would be traded.. only gifted to people of her choosing. 3rd gens would be auctioned off at random via the trade forums. Essentially made it clear that PMs would be useless.

[Guillotine]

No.  Don't mess with the raffles.  Prizes should be rare.

Bumping up the numbers of CB prize owners to a couple hundred people out of the several thousands that enter the raffles is hardly making them not-rare, it's just making it harder for second-gens to completely vanish when the owners of CBs lose interest in playing. CB Hollies are quite rare, and having them as HM prizes isn't doing much besides opening up the breeding pool and helping keep the breeding population from disappearing entirely as players leave (which has been mentioned in the thread as currently happening to Tinsels).

 

I don't see the problem in having retired prizes as HM choices, provided they have time between their reign in the spotlight and being reintroduced as HM options. Not everyone is going to grab one, and even if they do it's not that much of a population boost. Like, say 10000 people had an entry and 5% won something. Out of those winners, say 150 got the current prize dragon. That leaves only 350 HMs, which only looks like a lot when you don't realize that we do, in fact, have thousands of other players who got nothing. And those HMs? Aren't all going to be old prizes; people will want things like Hollies and Frills, which means that many fewer people will pick a prize. And people will want different breeds or colors more than others. It's really, really not going to make them common, or even uncommon, especially since raffle winners aren't exactly exempt from player attrition.

 

V @Syphoneira: Honestly, i'd personally prefer closer to 10% to win A Thing, or at least 5% twice a year (especially if retired prizes become HM choices), but I doubt it'll happen. Still doesn't mean much re: population, given the whole "large number of players+general attrition" thing.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Guillotine

[Lavinia]

1. Increase number of prizes per raffle.

 

Yes, please. Currently, both CB prizes and HM cool eggs are nigh-unobtainable. Even if the difference in prizes was solely an increase in the number of HMs, that would be a huge help. Lots of people, like me, just want to win something cool that we want, not necessarily become one of the few Active CB Prize Owners Who Are Pestered.

 

In fact, and everyone who knows me knows this - I'd much rather win HM than a CB prize, for many reasons.

 

In light of this, does there really have to be a separation between "winning" the raffle and "getting HM" in the raffle? Can TJ not just make a ranked list, people choose from a limited pool (say, 10 CB gold prizes, 25 CB silver prizes, 50 CB bronze prizes, 5 CB hollies, 5 CB frills, 5 CB alt blacks... [i don't know how the actual numbers would work out, just giving an example]) in order, ensuring that no one is forced to accept a prize they don't want just because it is supposedly more desirable.

 

2. Two raffles per year.

 

Two raffles per year would be awesome. I enjoy doing events, and it is a very long time from Valentine's to Halloween. Also, it gives an opportunity to people who are busier during the winter holidays than the rest of the year something they can more fully participate in. Contrary to what a few people have said in this thread, not everyone has more time for DC over the winter holiday than at other times in the year.

 

Allow some winners of the summer raffle to choose a new dragon to be added to the cave? No no no no no no. Most users (and I am one of them) have insufficient artistic training to have good taste, leave picking new releases to the people with taste and practice choosing.

 

3. Dull-colored prize dragon variant.

 

Okay, I guess? Pretty apathetic about this.

 

4. Multiclutch prizes.

 

I played back in the era of multiclutch being a regular mechanic, and I enjoyed it. I also play now, where multiclutch is only for holidays, and I enjoy it. I don't have strong feelings about this, but I think the userbase will adjust to it just fine if implemented.

 

5. Add retired prizes to the list of HM prizes.

 

In general, definitely. Keeping them in circulation would be great, especially as users come and go from the website in general. I think there are not many downsides to this.

 

However, please do not add "another level of prize where Tinsels are given out, keeping HM prizes as they are." This only works if you find a CB Tinsel as the next-best thing to winning a CB shimmer in this raffle. This is not true for many of us! If put in this category, I would be utterly pissed that a CB Tinsel was being forced upon me instead of letting me choose an HM prize like I would have wanted. Please do not make assumptions on which dragons certain users do or do not want. DC players have many different playstyles.

 

6. New prizes only produce prize eggs at first.

 

I think that introduces some disturbing precedent to this website. Please no.

 

7. Add retired prizes to the cave as rares.

 

I'm sure this is very popular with the frustrated lineage-creators who just want their pretty checkers or whatnot. I'm okay with this suggestion but don't care much about it.

[Syphoneira]

If there are 10,000 active scrolls (a "guesstimate" based on how many scrolls are entered on one popular fansite, multiplied by 2) then giving out 100 prizes would be approximately equal to a 1 in 100 chance of winning. This seems like a reasonable enough percentage, though the chance of winning an actual prize dragon is about half that. That's considerably better chances than the odds of winning a few million in an official lottery, such as the ones fuzzbucket linked.

 

However, a 1 in 100 or 1 in 200 chance of winning a prize dragon still seems a lot like "no chance, too bad" to most of us. Maybe if the chance of winning an actual prize dragon were increased to 1 in 100, and then an equal number of HM prizes were given out we'd feel like we have a more reasonable chance. That is, link the number of prizes to the number of entries and give out 1% of that number. 10,000 entries = 100 prize dragons awarded. 15,000 entries = 150 prize dragons awarded.

 

That seems like a lot of prizes given out, yet your individual chance is still only 1 out of 100. Pretty small odds. ...

 

 

... I am completely in favor of making former prize dragons available as HM prizes though, with at least one year gap between being "the prize dragon" and being available as HM. In part this opinion is due to my sadness in looking for a CB male gold tinsel owner who might be willing to arrange a trade so I could have a "proper" mate for her. There simply aren't any known male gold tinsels anymore except Apollo. Sad. So I see that already the breeding stock of cb tinsels is fading. ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Parts of Fiona's post above, and part of one of mine, somewhat rewritten, down here:

 

 

 

 

My personal hopes are for a much larger, percentage-based number of Prize dragons being given out in future, with these breeding like commons and producing multi-clutches,

 

so that the Cave/trading can return to some semblance of normalcy while players actually have fun with the raffles, being sure of obtaining decent specimens at some reasonable point in the future by more than one method and a steadily growing pool of CB/low-gen owners, many of whom may tend to gift a lot.

 

Acute shortage situations don't work well for most, and in at least some cases, this can include the lucky winners.

 

A policy of scarcity breeds instability, and segregation of the population into economic layers which increasingly separate as disparity increases as the bottom layers are shut off, progressively further away from the fortunate few.

 

When prosperity spreads for all, the 'economy' and happiness booms, and this is as true in DC as it is in RL.

 

The more people with Prize CBs and low-gens, the sooner this whole thing can become pure fun, rather than stressful for virtually all concerned, and the sooner we can start appreciating the sprites and pretty common lineages of all of the dragons we like, without wondering what they're 'worth' as a sprite in trade for one we've not obtained.

[Mew_1]

1. Increase number of prizes per raffle.

 

Yes, please. Currently, both CB prizes and HM cool eggs are nigh-unobtainable. Even if the difference in prizes was solely an increase in the number of HMs, that would be a huge help. Lots of people, like me, just want to win something cool that we want, not necessarily become one of the few Active CB Prize Owners Who Are Pestered.

 

In fact, and everyone who knows me knows this - I'd much rather win HM than a CB prize, for many reasons.

 

In light of this, does there really have to be a separation between "winning" the raffle and "getting HM" in the raffle? Can TJ not just make a ranked list, people choose from a limited pool (say, 10 CB gold prizes, 25 CB silver prizes, 50 CB bronze prizes, 5 CB hollies, 5 CB frills, 5 CB alt blacks... [i don't know how the actual numbers would work out, just giving an example]) in order, ensuring that no one is forced to accept a prize they don't want just because it is supposedly more desirable.

If I remember correctly, those who won gold, silver or bronze place in the past raffles had the ability to choose honourable mention prizes...and if they chose to do so, an honourable mention person would be bumped up, so that there would be the same amount of prize dragons being sent out as originally intended.

[Fiona]

ensuring that no one is forced to accept a prize they don't want just because it is supposedly more desirable.

 

...<snip>

 

If put in this category, I would be utterly pissed that a CB Tinsel was being forced upon me instead of letting me choose an HM prize like I would have wanted. 

Um. If I understood the post correctly concerning prize dragons, no one was "forced" to take a prize dragon if they preferred an Honorable Mention eligible dragon instead. The "higher" winners could choose to take whichever they wanted.

 

So that's already true. No one "has" to accept something they don't want. If say a gold prize winner choose to take a cb holly instead, they could and all the others below in the queue would move up so the same number of prize dragons would be given out.

[Lavinia]

Mew and Fiona: thanks for letting me know, that's wonderful news. I'm still not thrilled with the assumption that some prizes are more valuable than others, but eh, it's acceptable.

 

Although this brings up an interesting point: I am active on the forums, and on IRC, and I don't know these things about the raffle. I doubt most casual users of the site have more than a vague idea about how the raffle runs. Could there be a page introduced on the help menu to cover basic facts about the raffle, now that it is an annual tradition?

[TCA]

I think 1%-5% of total entries is completely fair and keeps things rare but obtainable. I think the prize owners would be very relieved to have less people pouncing each individual for trades, but they'd still be able to get their fill of nice things for low-gens. And this isn't just whining about not being able to have these rare dragons, I did manage to trade for a second-gen shimmer right out of the gate (my favorite color and from my favorite common, even).

 

A second raffle would be lovely too, as would old prizes eventually circulating back in somehow, as HMs or as first prizes again.

Edited January 2, 2014 by TheCompleteAnimorph

[LadyAmlaruil2]

No.  Don't mess with the raffles.  Prizes should be rare.

 

If the problem is that people are abusing PMs, then ban people who abuse PMs.

 

Anything else boils down to "I want a better chance to get one," and that defeats the purpose of prize dragons.

I completely agree.... Increasing the number of prizes given out will not "fix" things - because then people will want more of the more.... it is a cyclical problem that can't be fixed that way.

 

By keeping the number of prizes low, like last year, makes the thrill of winning that much better - and although I have seen a few previous prize winners mention being hounded, I think there are enough systems in place to handle that issue at this point, as long as those involved use those methods!

[SolarCat]

That said, I'm still against the idea of a raffle in which users don't have equal opportunity to get entries (i.e. users can earn extra chances, but all users have the same potential).

Just jumping in here to say that adding additional methods to obtain chances in the drawing, while not a good judge of how long a user will REMAIN at the site, IS a decent measure of how active a person is CURRENTLY - as long as the extra methods for obtaining the additional drawing chances are not set up to also disadvantage those who spend less time at the computer during the holidays than in normal times.

 

For example:

- Logging in once per day for a chance - benefits those who aren't doing holiday things, doesn't really measure accurately who is active overall - BAD

- Reaching every 10th level in the snow fight (with all 50 levels available at the start) - benefits those who are overall active without placing limits on WHEN the activity must occur - GOOD

 

Both require only a few minutes periodically, but the one states WHEN it must occur (once per day, only a few seconds, doesn't really require a lot of thought or time), the other requires more time spent on the site than the first but doesn't limit WHEN it must occur (rewarding those who participate and spend time on the site but also accommodating those who have lives).

 

So I think adding additional chances, when done properly, could help greatly. (And of course nobody could win twice, not that the odds are even likely, but nonetheless...)

I also like the addition of extra Honorable Mentions could be something worth considering.

[Renorei]

Thinking about it more, I think the best possible suggestion is for prize dragons to frequently multi-clutch prize eggs.

 

This way, the number of CB prize dragons can stay they same so they can still be just as special and rare as they are now, which quite a few of us are in favor of.

 

But, it will still give people a chance to get low-gen prize dragons without having to fork over an arm and a leg for it, and it will increase the total prize dragon population quickly.

 

Periodically re-issuing a particular breed as a prize for a different year or allowing people to select old prizes as HM prizes (after, say, a 2 year waiting period) will mean that there will always be a (small) supply of CB owners of a particular prize breed. Even with attrition, there will always be new owners.

 

 

 

One thing that I don't think has been mentioned, or at least hasn't been mentioned much, is the possibility that maybe instead of there being three tiers of increasing rarity for prize dragons (bronze, silver, gold) maybe there could be three tiers that are all equal in rarity with none being obviously "better" than the other? Like, move away from the metallic system, and just give out 10 red prizes, 10 green prizes, and 10 golds? Or however many. That would be appropriate anyway since those are Christmas-y colors, and it would make it where it isn't dramatically harder to get a low-gen of one color than it is to get a low-gen of another color, and attrition wouldn't be as big of an issue for one particular color type. As some have pointed out, user attrition of CB prize owners is a bigger deal for Gold Tinsels than Bronze Tinsels since there are only 10 Gold Tinsels total, whereas there are 30(?) bronze tinsels.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Renorei

[EscapistLore]

Ok, my thoughts... Starting on harrassment. I'll admit, when I just joined, I fell in love with silver shimmers and still am. I have a dream, of having a silver shimmer spiral with royal crimsons. So I PMed a CB silver shimmer owner. I didn't know at that point that CB shimmers were prizes or that 2Gs were very much sought after, or that I should read profiles before PMing. So I got a reply, essentially, never PM me, etc. I tried replying with a sincere apology, and.. found I was blocked. (BTW, if you remember me, I am sorry!). Well, point is, blocking the annoying or naive users is an option. Not all of us mean to annoy you, but we do neverless. One PM shouldnt be reportworthy, whereas several should be. Blocking can solve the issue. I'm not a CB owner and likely never will be, so its doubtful I understand the frustration, but at least upping prizes should reduce it.

 

Ok, onto the suggestions.

 

#1- More prizes.

 

Please. I would like to feel I have a chance at least, whereas right now? Pshaw, not gonna happen. I have no expectations of winning (and I'm ok with that), and I'm entered because I enjoyed the snow fort game. I'd be over the moon if I did, of course, but with such low numbers..

 

I just joined a few months ago, and I've seen a trend in trading. You have a CB or 2G Prize? You can get -anything- you want. You don't? Its much harder to get what you want unless you have fast internet. IMO, I dislike this. Exclusive is all well and good, but in such low numbers... its bad. This is a game where I think a major strong point is the ability to get whatever you want if you work hard enough. Adding more would, perhaps, reduce the price. I don't see how this is necessarily a bad thing.

 

#2- More raffles.

 

It'd be nice, but.. I dunno. No opinion, really.

 

#3- Consolation Prize.

 

I like, but only if the release is similar to holidays (drops for a few days, only them, then never again). It'd be different as anyone who wants to participate can get them, and make at least some version more common. Its not as random. And I don't see people complaining that they werent there for Hollies, and so they should redrop all the time. (Adding in this as a Hm prize, too).

 

#4- Multiclutch.

 

No, no, and please. No. If I win, I will be trading very very rarely, keeping two or three, and then gifting the rest to people I know and like, and people whom I see are often giving and helping the community. I would want control over who gets them, as I'd want to give them myself. I'd maybe AP a few, but it'd be my choice. And if someone doesnt want to have 'everyone' have a 2G, its their choice. If there was a time limit, as in the first month they multiclutched... I'd wait to breed (selfish, I know, but I want control over who gets them). The other dragons who can breed true year round don't, prizes shouldnt. Holidays breed true -once- a year, so ok. If prizes multiclutch, they should only breed true once a year.

 

#5- Adding retired prizes to HM.

 

This would keep the pool open of CBs, and they won't die out. In favor. And it'd keep hope about getting prizes.

 

#6- Prizes breeding true for the first month.

 

What about the people who like fails? And it'd take the fun away. No, thank you.

 

#7- Adding retired prizes (altered) to the cave.

 

If noticebly altered and all CBs bred true to their sprite, I'd like. Pretty lineages galore...

 

Thanks for reading! Its been really interesting to read all your opinions, and really made me think about all your points. There are so many sides, and I can imagine how hard TJ has it over these raffles.

[Melisande]

I completely agree....  Increasing the number of prizes given out will not "fix" things - because then people will want more of the more.... it is a cyclical problem that can't be fixed that way. 

 

By keeping the number of prizes low, like last year, makes the thrill of winning that much better - and although I have seen a few previous prize winners mention being hounded, I think there are enough systems in place to handle that issue at this point, as long as those involved use those methods!

I think the problem is more that last year if there were 4,000+ entries (as an example) in the raffle and only 100 prizes, that's a .025% chance to get a prize, with less of those being actual prize dragons because of the HMs. We have no idea how many people were entered in it this year... could be more, could be less... but if it is more, and significantly more (like double it say 8,000 entries) having 100 prizes divided between 8,000 people dose not really seem fair to me... (100 out of 4,000 seems really, really low % to me as well)

 

You also have to take into account the facts that not all winners use the forums so may not trade at all, and some may no longer be active players on DC those prizes, people who have for one reason or another killed / abandoned dragons, or may even have had their scroll burnt. So there -may- be less than then the actual number that was give out as prizes in the breeding pools.

 

Increasing the number of prizes given out to reflect the current active player base entered in the raffle would be only be fair. How much it is increased would be decided by TJ and any staff he chose to consult, but seeing as the population of DC has grown since last year the prize base for the raffle should grow as well to reflect that.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Melisande

[whitebaron]

where did you get the information of 4000 entries? in the first contest for prize dragons (tree decorating / xmas 2010), there were already more than 8000 entries.

[DarkEternity]

Yeah. To be absolutely honest, I'm glad I put a lot of effort into the tree decorating one because the raffles are literally impossible to win (since nothing you can do will basically make you more likely to win).

 

In between the highly probable multiaccounting for tickets and the incredibly simple task with a huge entry period (I completed the snow fort one in a day and the raffle ended practically two weeks later :/) most everyone would be pretty lucky if they won once before they died of old age if they participated every year.

 

I realise that this is rapidly getting old, but maybe changing the raffle into an event with some difficulty (like quite a high level in the snowforts, for example, which needed more participation/online time) and then giving all the people who completed the challenge an account bound prize would be more useful, rather than waving the 'You coouullddd have a 0.00000001% chance of getting a prize" flag in front of people's faces.

 

Of course, I know that people are opposed to the above, but I think it at least merits consideration that a single enhanced effort in a year, sort of like the lines of what GPX Plus have monthly, would be more efficient then doing simple tasks year after year after year without any result because of the aforementioned 0.00000001% chance of a prize.

Edited January 3, 2014 by DarkEternity

[Melisande]

where did you get the information of 4000 entries? in the first contest for prize dragons (tree decorating / xmas 2010), there were already more than 8000 entries.

4,000 was just a low estimate, to show the probability of getting a prize with that many people, which is extremely low. The actual number was most likely a lot higher so the chance of actually winning would be a lot smaller.

 

 

[whitebaron]

I would not be opposed to a skill-based event, either.

Only thing i'd despise would be a voting like with the trees. There should be fixed rules, ones that are set up before, and that you can fullfill without being an artist, musician or ultra-fast clicker, just "hard" work.

[Syphoneira]

Why not just increase the chances of winning?

 

I suspect that most people likely joined to collect dragons, not to maximize high trade prices for a lucky few, and the extreme rarity of the low-gen Prizes (and variously others in high demand such as Blusang and Golds, predominately and additionally so of late in relation to the number pursued and required by the fastest often not for themselves but to obtain low-gen Prizes) has drastically altered not only trading but the general attitude shift from caring about the dragons to caring about the trade value of the dragons.

 

Is DC intended to become merely a marketplace in which only those able to afford the 'Gold standard' equipment enabling them to accumulate the quantities of the 'coin' typically demanded for low-gen Shimmers can trade within a situation of created great scarcity among a group obsessive about being able to 'collect them all'?

 

While the concept of the raffle is great, trade and trade value now forms a priority - in almost every situation, it seems to arise - and the dragons themselves have lost intrinsic value relative to the trade value of whatever CB/low-gen sprite is currently virtually unobtainable for most.

 

Personally, I'd like to see a return to an interest in the dragons, away and apart from the 'stock market mentality', something which will not occur until the pressure is reduced, something which will not occur while such intense degrees of scarcity obtain.

 

When there are 30 or 60 or even a hundred dragons (which may not breed well or produce multi-clutches) presented to a literal few among a group of however many thousand people, all obsessive about collecting, and unable to happily gift or trade dragons now devalued because not among the rarest of the rare - low-gen Shimmers and the Golds or whichever other dragons currently form acceptable 'coin' to purchase them, deemed valuable because unattainable for most - the whole direction of the group becomes restricted to the hope of gaining of that which is only obtainable for the few.

 

And the game becomes generally less and less fun for most, and more and more stressful, and ultimately it's not really a collecting game anymore, just the suckier parts of RL in a game we play to get away from these things.

 

Killing hope in our spare time without even being paid for it just isn't that appealing to a lot of those who came here to collect dragons.

 

It'd be a lot more fun for a lot more people with a higher percentage of CB Prizes presented, and with good breeding rates and multiclutches from the CBs.

 

At least then there'd be some degree of a trickle-down effect, unlike in RL, lol.

[whitebaron]

my shimmers (linked in sig) have almost no trade value. People rarely want them, even if I give them away for a mere 2 crimson hatchies. so this perception at least is wrong. they were hard to come by, expensive to trade for, and trade value did play not much consideration there.

 

 

as for multiclutch only cbs: that idea sits not very well with me. If dragons multiclutch, it should be for every dragon of a breed. Its not a mega-mum able to spit out massive hordes and the offspring is infertile, they are all the same - cb or not does not play a role.

[Amazon_warrior]

On the subject of multi-clutches - There seems to be an assumption that each breeding will result in a multi-clutch of four eggs and of course each multi-clutch will be mostly or even 100% Shimmers. Well, I counted up the number of Shimmers Luckiest Catch has breed in almost a year's worth of breedings (approximately once a week), and she has produced 15 shiny eggs in that time (plus one more that died after I AP'ed it and the person who caught it didn't fog it). So.... if the above assumptions were correct, that's four, maaaaybe five multi-clutches of three to four Shimmer eggs? Then nothing for the rest of the year, plus I wouldn't have been able to share as many diverse lineages with as many people as I have done? Ummm, no thanks. In any case, I imagine that a Shimmer multi-clutch, based on my experience, would probably be mostly, if not entirely, the breed of the mate unless you're breeding with Holidays.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Amazon_warrior

[Syphoneira]

my shimmers (linked in sig) have almost no trade value. People rarely want them, even if I give them away for a mere 2 crimson hatchies. so this perception at least is wrong. they were hard to come by, expensive to trade for, and trade value did play not much consideration there.

 

 

as for multiclutch only cbs: that idea sits not very well with me. If dragons multiclutch, it should be for every dragon of a breed. Its not a mega-mum able to spit out massive hordes and the offspring is infertile, they are all the same - cb or not does not play a role.

Yup, it seems that typically and very generally speaking, 4th gens are still rather expensive to get, but 5th gens are considered to be of relatively little value, because they produce 6 gens, which are of less value and anything over that is worthless.

 

The value drops fast - in great part because the value of 2nd and 3rd gen Shimmers is so inflated due to the excessive rarity of such low-gens because of the excessive rarity of the CBs.

 

 

Edit: hi, Amazon_warrior.

 

I think a lot of people breed enough to understand this, that being why I think Prize dragons should breed like commons, lol, or at any rate well, because they certainly don't!

 

But I've seen the massive changes in DC since the first appearance of the Prize dragons and I do feel that the only way to alleviate these effects is to increase - by whatever means - the CBs/lower-gens available.

 

No modern societal/economic structure can weather well for very long a situation where by design 'wealth' concentrates at the top - and this is something we play for fun, lol.

 

I'd like to keep the more depressing aspects of RL out of DC, drat it!

Edited January 3, 2014 by Syphoneira

[whitebaron]

Yup, it seems that typically and very generally speaking, 4th gens are still rather expensive to get, but 5th gens are considered to be of relatively little value, because they produce 6 gens, which are of less value and anything over that is worthless.

 

The value drops fast - in great part because the value of 2nd and 3rd gen Shimmers is so inflated due to the excessive rarity of such low-gens because of the excessive rarity of the CBs.

make no mistake - I own the 3gs and some of the 2gs.

 

Still, the 4gs are not much of a trade bait. I just gave them as an example that not all people go for trade value first and foremost.

[Syphoneira]

make no mistake - I own the 3gs and some of the 2gs.

 

Still, the 4gs are not much of a trade bait. I just gave them as an example that not all people go for trade value first and foremost.

 

 

Oh, I certainly do agree with you there - but speaking generally, there has been a massive emphasis shift to trade value which was never before so prevalent in DC.

 

 

Edit: so then it was actually the 2nd and 3rd gens which produced the 4th gens which "...were hard to come by, expensive to trade for, and trade value did play not much consideration there. ..."?

 

I confooze easily...

Edited January 3, 2014 by Syphoneira