Notice Regarding Trading Harassment

[MedievalMystic]

I can actually see why people would be angry at you, because only giving 2nd gens to other spriters, whilst a nice gesture, completely shuts out the rest of the community from ever getting one. In my opinion, you can do whatever the hell you want with your prize, as can anyone who wins, but I know a few people who were rather annoyed at your decision. It's a bit like prizewinners saying "list is open only for 2nd gen swaps", which I know annoys a lot of people. Because that too shuts out the rest of the community from getting one. The very nature of DC is at you can get anything you want (rares, CB's, etc) by putting enough effort in (by catching, trading, etc), and prizes somewhat go against that ethos. So yes, prizes in general cause a lot of harassment, if you ask me. The way things are going, I can see us not having a raffle next year. >.>

 

I think what most people are missing when I see posts like this is that nobody, not one single user on this site, is entitled to any prize eggs..or whatever good thing someone's got that's coveted by the masses... whatsoever. At all. Nadda. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Period. Doesn't matter if you like it, doesn't matter if you approve, doesn't matter how you see it, that's what it boils down to.

 

I don't care if prize winners ONLY gift their good friends. And? What business is it of yours, or mine, or anyone's what someone else's personal decisions are? Who is anybody here to bad mouth someone in the forums for being 'greedy' with their eggs. The person complaining in public has already proved that they're greedy enough to take out their sour grapes in public. And who cares if the 'community' doesn't benefit. Is there an unspoken rule that says they must? No? Well then.

 

And that would indeed be a sorry day if raffles were eliminated because the entitled screamed, and pissed and moaned, and got their way. >_< Imho, maybe it's about damn time people started getting more aggressive, not just here, but everywhere, about standing up for themselves, instead of believing the ridiculous 'be politically correct at all times' crap. If you bug the crap out of me and make me tense and miserable, I'm going to stop it, one way or the other. If someone dogs me or harrasses me, be it online or in RL, for any reason or no reason, and makes me feel uncomfortable and/or squirmy, I'm not going to worry about how 'rude' I seem when I tell you to piss off, because you've already crossed the line.

 

Putting Do. Not. PM. Me. in my sig is the first thing I'd do if I won a prize dragon here. If someone dogs me in public because of it, or because, in their opinion, I'm not being as generous with this community as I 'should' be, and calls me names for it like a bad loser, we rumble. lol *shrug*

 

 

 

 

[Amazon_warrior]

But then there's the nice people who want to trade for a 2nd gen, that can't make NDs or catch CB Metals, but still try their hardest to be polite and get them. For the few people that could be classed as 'harassing' prizewinners, there are a lot that don't. I can actually see why people would be angry at you, because only giving 2nd gens to other spriters, whilst a nice gesture, completely shuts out the rest of the community from ever getting one. In my opinion, you can do whatever the hell you want with your prize, as can anyone who wins, but I know a few people who were rather annoyed at your decision. It's a bit like prizewinners saying "list is open only for 2nd gen swaps", which I know annoys a lot of people. Because that too shuts out the rest of the community from getting one. The very nature of DC is at you can get anything you want (rares, CB's, etc) by putting enough effort in (by catching, trading, etc), and prizes somewhat go against that ethos. So yes, prizes in general cause a lot of harassment, if you ask me. The way things are going, I can see us not having a raffle next year. >.>

...Absolute and I are, in our own ways, living proof that you do not have to have won a raffle to end up with a prize.

 

 

 

Not gonna touch on anything else in case I say something I'll later regret.

[TheGrox]

God, I think I may just give up posting in the forums. People never understand, or even try to understand what you're trying to say; people just pick apart your post and make you feel like you shouldn't have an opinion, like you shouldn't even be here.

 

Honestly, I'm coming round to the idea of getting rid of the raffle altogether. If it apparently causes this much harassment, this much bad feeling between players, then we might as well just get rid of it. It's more trouble than it's worth.

 

MedievalMusic: that wasn't my opinion, I agree that prizewinners should be able to do what they want with prizes. As I clearly said. It is just the opinion I have seen when talking to others about it. I was just trying to see the other side of the argument, is all. Which is something most people in this forum have an inability to do, it appears.

 

Amazon: I wasn't even referring to CB Prizes, but more 2nd and 3rd gens. But if you want to start about that; you and Abs are isolated cases, it's not like everyone could get a CB Prize that way. Nor would I want to, to be honest, considering some people's reaction to Abs getting one...

Edited February 21, 2013 by TheGrox

[Emeraldmay]

God, I think I may just give up posting in the forums. People never understand, or even try to understand what you're trying to say; people just pick apart your post and make you feel like you shouldn't have an opinion, like you shouldn't even be here.

 

Honestly, I'm coming round to the idea of getting rid of the raffle altogether. If it apparently causes this much harassment, this much bad feeling between players, then we might as well just get rid of it. It's more trouble than it's worth.

The raffle also causes good feelings too.

 

First, the joy of actually winning this uber special prize dragon. Then, the happiness of the spriter to not only receive the dragon, but to their beautiful spriting in cave. And the joy of the people who manage to trade for these rare dragons, who get to think up new lineages, who get their first one? I can remember how amazing I felt when I caught my first vampire. The sense of achievement being on a list would give, how DC came together in the prize discussion thread, all united by these beautiful dragons. This never happens with normal releases, not this much interest. I enjoyed seeing the descriptions they were given, I'm amazingly happy just to be on a 2G fail list.

 

 

[skauble]

But then there's the nice people who want to trade for a 2nd gen, that can't make NDs or catch CB Metals, but still try their hardest to be polite and get them. For the few people that could be classed as 'harassing' prizewinners, there are a lot that don't. I can actually see why people would be angry at you, because only giving 2nd gens to other spriters, whilst a nice gesture, completely shuts out the rest of the community from ever getting one. In my opinion, you can do whatever the hell you want with your prize, as can anyone who wins, but I know a few people who were rather annoyed at your decision. It's a bit like prizewinners saying "list is open only for 2nd gen swaps", which I know annoys a lot of people. Because that too shuts out the rest of the community from getting one. The very nature of DC is at you can get anything you want (rares, CB's, etc) by putting enough effort in (by catching, trading, etc), and prizes somewhat go against that ethos. So yes, prizes in general cause a lot of harassment, if you ask me. The way things are going, I can see us not having a raffle next year. >.>

 

I'm going to preface this by saying that this is about the people you're referring to, as opposed to you.

 

The problem that I have with this is that people possibly having a reason to be upset in no way equals people having a reason to be upset with the owner of the dragon in question.

 

If people think the game is being run in a way that's unfair or that diminishes people's joy then there's a cave feedback thread for that where they can bring the complaint directly to TJ's attention. Being mad at someone who is under zero obligation to do something, expressly because they didn't do that thing they don't have to, sounds more like a problem with people's expectations than with certain dragon owners.

 

As for the nature of DC, I don't think that's quite true. You can't get CBs of holiday's you miss (unless you win the raffle, which is the same way you get the prize dragons), and we have dragons that have been pulled. People might want the game to be about everything being ultimately attainable, but that doesn't mean that's what the game actually is. Again, probably an issue best directed to the cave feedback thread if they want to see that change.

 

Also, there's a difference between being able to get a dragon and being able to get an offspring from a specific dragon. If some people are of the idea that they are entitled to collect an offspring from specific dragons, that seems a bit ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I understand making it a goal to shoot for but, again, wanting something shouldn't lead people to believe that other people are obligated to satisfy that. People have no more right to be angry with a prize winner for not making their offspring available than they would to demand that you or I make available offspring from the dragons we own for them.

 

And that's really where all of this harassment comes in - from people who can't seem to separate what they want with what they're entitled to have. If people don't like the way the game is currently set up, there are avenues to address that, but thinking that other players have a duty to compensate seems like trouble waiting to happen.

 

Also, I don't see why we wouldn't have another raffle. Even with the talk of harassment, this still seems like a very, very minor drama on the DC scale. I've seen worse over other holiday events and we keep having those.

 

God, I think I may just give up posting in the forums. People never understand, or even try to understand what you're trying to say; people just pick apart your post and make you feel like you shouldn't have an opinion, like you shouldn't even be here.

 

Honestly, I'm coming round to the idea of getting rid of the raffle altogether. If it apparently causes this much harassment, this much bad feeling between players, then we might as well just get rid of it. It's more trouble than it's worth.

 

I don't think that everyone is trying to pick apart your post to upset you, rather we're responding to what we believe you were meaning to say. And if that tends to be the way a lot of people are reading it, the problem might not be with the readers.

 

I do get where your coming from, because lots of times I have to clarify what I meant or discuss something a number of times to effectively convey what I meant, but sometimes that's part of the problem with just communicating by text as opposed to any ill will toward your posts in particular.

[Sannois]

I guess I never see the Drama, Cause I rarely trade, Just recently saw what the new prize dragons look like and do not like Tinsels. LOL

I have had some people do some generous things for me, No motive. I have nothing to offer. But I have read some really agressive negative sig lines that would make me not want to do any sort of trade with some people.

When it comes right down to it folks, these are pixels on a computer screen, And it is just for fun. Try to remember that, no one is going to die if they do not get a certain kind of dragon!

[MedievalMystic]

Grox, I see the other side, too, and I wasn't trying to pick anyone, or their views, apart. It's great when people are generous and kind. It's nice when prize winners here share with the community. I think it's a beautiful thing.

 

But people here seem to be discussing 'right' and 'wrong' here, in the way winners handle their prizes, and to me, there simply is no right and wrong. It's not wrong for a prize winner to gift only to family or friends. It's not wrong not to spread the weath if you don't want to.

 

What is wrong are comments that are designed to guilt, embarrass, pressure, shame, or whatever, publicly, someone into giving up something that they have. That kind of behavior, from non prize winners...who are the ones that have all these issues and problems with what others do to begin with...is what's wrong here, imho.

[Mysfytt]

I know what you are saying, and it does seem reasonable that if it causes conflict then the raffle dragon should be removed - but it would be very sad if it were.

 

I have a nice collection of butt-ugly tinsel lines that I managed to catch myself from the AP - usually because people tossed em back 2 or 3 times because they were horrid. Still, I do have some, and would feel bad if no more super awesome raffle dragons were released because a few ruined it for the rest of us. certainly the receivers of my gifted tinsel eggs never complain - it only seems those wanting that status of low gens that do.

 

And really that is what it comes down to - a few nasty spiteful greedy people harassing and airing their sour grapes for all to take pity on them, but the poor harassed person is left wondering if the prize was worth it. This thread is to remind people that harassment is not tolerated on any level.

 

To those who are griping about my choice of not sharing 2nd gens with the greater population, maybe I will - once the hype has died down - who knows. Bug me about it and I will never breed Jewel again. People are so busy whining about their not having the chance to get that status symbol of a second gen prize, they forget that a real person is behind that CB and feelings that may be contrary to the demandee.

 

My choice was made to even the playing field - no one can have a higher status and charge those ridiculous egg prices for a 3rd gen - coz you all going to have one, no one can get lower. To me it is fair - if you think it is not, you better take a hard look at your reasons why.

[Amaterasu-sama]

Wow I didn't know what should be common sense has become a topic of warning o.O Really, what is wrong with people? There is no way you can get someone to trade with you just because you can offer them their weight in gold. If something like that happened to me I probably wouldn't even bother and put the person to ignore list. The closest I've got to "unpleasant" trading is someone PMing me to rant I'm asking for too much (which was wrong tbh) and casually slipping in the trade offer in later part of msg. My first intuition was to vent, but I could do better being an adult so I just casually responded back ignoring all the rant and accepting the offer because the offer was of something I could utilize, though not expressly needed.

 

I also agree generally shouting warnings to whole world instead of dealing with harassers only puts off potential good people from trading. Whenever I see rude warnings or language in general in trade posts it's like a slap to the face, and I simply ignore the trade even if I need the trade and I've what the person is looking for.

 

off topic, its nice to know people out there are willing to trade prize dragons for something other than cb metals or NDs. Those are all the trades I ever saw so I didn't even bother to find a trade for new prize. Maybe 10 yrs down the line I'll get a high gen offspring of each and I'd be happy with just that. <3

[Steelclaw]

It's wrong for players to harrass others for eggs,

 

But this issue will only get worse i fear. The reason for the issue is simply that the rare eggs are perhaps to rare or players are hogging eggs.

 

Some people have been here a number of years and never seen or got rare eggs. then when they find someone who has them in desperations they start asking and feel frustrated when told no.

 

These people proberly feel cheated by the game as they cant get eggs they want.

 

Though Harrassment is not a way to solve this issue. Perhaps there could be a special rare day or somesome say two times a year when the cave produces more rare eggs with a cap on the ammount that can be taken, Thus giving those frustrated players a better fairer chance of getting the eggs they want.

[Fuzzbucket]

God, I think I may just give up posting in the forums. People never understand, or even try to understand what you're trying to say; people just pick apart your post and make you feel like you shouldn't have an opinion, like you shouldn't even be here.

 

Honestly, I'm coming round to the idea of getting rid of the raffle altogether. If it apparently causes this much harassment, this much bad feeling between players, then we might as well just get rid of it. It's more trouble than it's worth.

 

MedievalMusic: that wasn't my opinion, I agree that prizewinners should be able to do what they want with prizes. As I clearly said. It is just the opinion I have seen when talking to others about it. I was just trying to see the other side of the argument, is all. Which is something most people in this forum have an inability to do, it appears.

 

Amazon: I wasn't even referring to CB Prizes, but more 2nd and 3rd gens. But if you want to start about that; you and Abs are isolated cases, it's not like everyone could get a CB Prize that way. Nor would I want to, to be honest, considering some people's reaction to Abs getting one...

It isn't just the raffle. I have never won a prize. The worst harassment I have had was for about 10 assorted dragons - yes, metallics, but also ordinary things - skywings were involved, as I recall.

 

It wasn't the fact of the PMs and emails, it was the TONE that made me decline in the first place and in the end, block. If it had been a polite PM, saying - perhaps - if you are able to breed any of these for me, it would be nice - I'd have done it. (Indeed, I have received a few such requests after saying this more than once in this thread ! Polite ones. I have bred as requested .)

 

People don't only harass prizewinners. I would hate to see the raffles go - (as long as they stay raffles and never have a skill test and subjective judgements EVER AGAIN !) - and I say that as one who has never won, and who has scored one entire 3rd gen tin ever. I love it.

 

At this point I also have to say - Grox - I agree with skauble - your post came over that way to me too - it still does a bit.... Sorry

Edited February 21, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Dubious]

but I know a few people who were rather annoyed at your decision. It's a bit like prizewinners saying "list is open only for 2nd gen swaps", which I know annoys a lot of people. Because that too shuts out the rest of the community from getting one.

I fully agree with this. If the intention is to only gift 2nd gens to other artists then please don't announce it to the public, obviously people are going to be upset and it just comes off a bit elitist, even though I am certain that this was not in anyway the intention.

 

On the thread topic...About harassment for the prize winners....people are running around saying 'oh the poor prize winners'. Exactly what is 'poor' about them? They now have a completely exclusive dragon that none of the rest of us could ever hope to get a hold of, other then later generations....maybe...maybe six months down the road.

 

It is common sense that if you announce that you are a prize winner, you WILL get people asking or offspring. That if you are found out to be a prize winner then you WILL get people asking, it goes with the territory. So, sorry, but no I don't feel sorry for the prize winners, I would give anything to be in their shoes, we ALL would.

 

You say no to pm's you don't want and you report anyone who won't take no for an answer. As simple as that.

 

These raffles bring out the worst in people who lost, it is human nature and folks even find themselves behaving as they would not usually.

 

On another note, I have been here four years and received one glomp, no gifting of any sort. If I won a prize and suddenly people started gifting to me then I would be completely within my rights and completely justified in being suspicious. I imagine that this is the case for many prize winners. In my opinion the winners are very justified in eying every sudden gift with suspicion and speculating whether something is being expected in return, nothing wrong with that.

 

I was an advocate for a new prize dragon after last year's 2nd tinsel raffle, as it gives something to collect lineages from over the year, but the sheer amount of sorry to say, but no other way to describe it...sucking up, simpering, begging...it's cringe worthy. Sadly it is human nature and I even found myself doing it in a post or two in a thread, inspite of myself. That made me really cringe once I realised what I was doing.

 

Personally I hope that there is no raffle next year. Then we won't have such a divide in the players with 'haves' and 'have nots and can never get' and it won't bring out the worst in people and create a need for a thread such as this, which is what is happening now and is what happened after the tinsels were first released. Sure a raffle is a lovely idea, but it is pretty obvious that having a 'one of a kind' dragon on a collecting site brings out the worst in people and creates quite a bit of resentment and anger, becauise you can never 'collect 'em all.' So you have lost the game before you even started playing.

 

Cave Born released holiday dragons are a different story, it is understandable that you cannot get a CB if you were not here when they were released.Thank fully TJ has now made it so that you can still get previous holiday dragons. Being present when CB's are released to a handful of folks is entirely different.

 

The shimmerscales are so beautiful and one of the very best drawn and coloured sprites on the site, imho. It would have been so much nicer to have had them released as another rare. There are so few rares on the site. But what is done is done and done with the best of intensions behind it.

 

I am sorry if this comes off harshly, it is not intended that way or intended to cause offense to anyone. I am merely stating an opinion on this topic of harassment.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Dubious

[drabrugon]

To be honest, I like to gift.

This is the simple fact about gifting - it is fun! I have met some awesome people here because of it, long before Tinsels or Shimmers appeared on this site. Sometimes you have been the glomper, sometimes you were glomped by others. Nobody was speaking of a favour you had to return to them. Gifts were made to make another players day, even if it was a complete stranger at that moment. Gifting was made to share the love - nowadays it seems like gifting can easily discredit you.

 

I am playing DC for many years now and I have collected everything I wanted. Lineages and gifting are the main aspects of this game still keeping me playing it. To be honest I am a quiet person here on the forums (mostly because of my bad English), but that doesn't mean that I am not able to visit the gifting threads or to read signatures. It makes no difference to me if I am gifting to a friend or to a stranger. As a long-time player I put no importance into value anymore, but I know the value of happiness a gift can bring into a stressful day. I was cheered up by friends AND strangers many many times and a love to share this experience with others. Seems like this attitude is old-fashioned, maybe it is because I am one of those odd adults still playing DC instead of doing something more age-appropriate with their free-time. What I wanted to say is that not everybody is selling his or her soul for pixels, but wanting to have a good time here. People who feel bothered by gifts can reject them. Everybody is posting wishlists in sigs but I never saw something like "I hate gifts, do not bother me with them". Very strange!

 

How can it be that people who received gifts (really free gifts!!!) in the past are now accusing the gifting spirit in this thread?! I really wonder were this change of mind comes from!

 

People who are expecting something bad behind everything are really killing the fun of gifting through generalisation. To me this is a sad development, but maybe I am just missing the good old times here on DC.

Edited February 21, 2013 by drabrugon

[Fuzzbucket]

but I know a few people who were rather annoyed at your decision. It's a bit like prizewinners saying "list is open only for 2nd gen swaps", which I know annoys a lot of people. Because that too shuts out the rest of the community from getting one.

I am sorry to say but I fully agree with this. If your intention is to only gift 2nd gens to other artists then please don't announce it to the public, obviously people are going to be upset and it just comes off a bit elitist, even though I am certain that this was not in anyway the intention.

 

 

I missed that bit. I can't agree. Any dragon owner has the absolute right to set their own terms for gifting/trading, and Mysfytt has said she will be offering 3rd gens - she's made that very clear. Better that than have everyone begging. Now we all know. That's fine.

 

I asked - in passing - as I was PMing the owner about something else entirely - if I could be added to the list for a 2nd gen tin the other day, and was politely refused, for similar reasons to Mysfytt's. That's fair enough. Posts saying she cannot do as she wishes are themselves part of the harassment thing.

 

On the thread topic...About harassment for the prize winners....people are running around saying 'oh the poor prize winners'. Exactly what is 'poor' about them? They now have a completely exclusive dragon that none of the rest of us could ever hope to get a hold of, other then later generations....maybe...maybe six months down the road.

 

It is common sense that if you announce that you are a prize winner, you WILL get people asking or offspring. That if you are found out to be a prize winner then you WILL get people asking, it goes with the territory. So, sorry, but no I don't feel sorry for the prize winners, I would give anything to be in their shoes, we ALL would.

Please speak for yourself. I enter raffles knowing I won't win, and I am honestly happy for the winners. I just hope I will get some further down the line. Later generations are fine with me. And not winning means I don't get harassed. Not so bad

 

Personally I hope that there is no raffle next year. Then we won't have such a divide in the players with 'haves' and 'have nots and can never get' and it won't bring out the worst in people and create a need for a thread such as this, which is what is happening now and is what happened after the tinsels were first released. Sure a raffle is a lovely idea, but it is pretty obvious that having a 'one of a kind' dragon on a collecting site brings out the worst in people and creates quite a bit of resentment and anger, because you can never 'collect 'em all.' So you have lost the game before you even started playing.   

 

The shimmerscales are so beautiful and one of the very best drawn and coloured sprites on the site, imho. It would have been so much nicer to have had them released as another rare. There are so few rares on the site. But what is done is done and done with the best of intentions behind it.

 

I am sorry if this comes off harshly, it is not intended that way or intended to cause offense to anyone. I am merely stating an opinion on this topic of harassment.

I say again - it isn't just the prize dragons that do this. There sounds to be a flush of rude begging just now - but there are silly rude demanding PMs all the time. Keep the raffle, and report harassment.

 

Oh - and just to second drabrugon - I have often been glomped. It is a lovely thing to happen. I have also glomped and the thank you PMs are lovely too. Maybe the more you glomp the more you GET glomped ?

Edited February 21, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Dubious]

Posts saying she cannot do as she wishes are themselves part of the harassment thing.

 

No one is saying she cannot post such a thing, not at all that is entirely up to her and I have to COMPLETELY disagree and be rather astounded that you would consider a polite statement of opinion like that harassment. This is where we come acropper here, people throwing around accusations of harrassment freely, that are plain nonsense. What you are saying is that I have to agree with the public post she made or I am harassing her and I am not allowed to reference of mention aforementioned post.....

You really think stating 'you cannot have this...ever!' will not ruffle a few feathers and get people upset. People are understandable upset and it would have been perhaps wiser if such a statement had not been publically made, that is ALL I am saying.

 

Please speak for yourself.

 

I AM speaking for myself. I thought that was clear in my post, my mistake.

 

I say again - it isn't just the prize dragons that do this. There sounds to be a flush of rude begging just now -

 

As I stated in a much earlier post, I have been harassed too. This thread however, is clearly here because of the raffle and the increase in harassment because of that.

 

Oh - and just to second drabrugon - I have often been glomped. It is a lovely thing to happen. I have also glomped and the thank you PMs are lovely too. Maybe the more you glomp the more you GET glomped ?

 

I don't particularily like what you are inferring here, but to let you know I have given away 12 CB Blacks, 8 CB Winters, 8 CB Blusangs eggs and hatchies, 6 CB Ice eggs and hatchies, a CB Thunder hatchy and more in the past month in the departure thread and the Lotto.

 

I love gifting and have never ever expected anything in return, I was using that one glomp as an example of why I find it completely justifed for prize winners to be a bit suspicious and nothing more. How you managed to twist my words into a complaint about glomping is beyond me.

What is wrong are comments that are designed to guilt, embarrass, pressure, shame, or whatever, publicly, someone into giving up something that they have. That kind of behavior, from non prize winners...who are the ones that have all these issues and problems with what others do to begin with...is what's wrong here, imho.

Where is the Like Button when you need it!

The above paragraph says it all!  Exactly right!!

 

You are reading WAY too much into a few passing comments. No one has any intention of guilting etc...comments that were nothing more then expressing an opinion, not something with any sort of shady ulterior motives..

Edited February 21, 2013 by Dubious

[Evilminion]

Well, looks like this topic is just flogging the drama horse now, so I'm going to take my pro-raffles, pro-gifting, anti-arsehattery self off to the kitchen to grill up some breakfast before work.

 

From one old dog to the rest, play nice, and enjoy the game!

Edited February 21, 2013 by Evilminion

[skauble]

I fully agree with this. If the intention is to only gift 2nd gens to other artists then please don't announce it to the public, obviously people are going to be upset and it just comes off a bit elitist, even though I am certain that this was not in anyway the intention.

 

On the thread topic...About harassment for the prize winners....people are running around saying 'oh the poor prize winners'. Exactly what is 'poor' about them? They now have a completely exclusive dragon that none of the rest of us could ever hope to get a hold of, other then later generations....maybe...maybe six months down the road.

 

It is common sense that if you announce that you are a prize winner, you WILL get people asking or offspring. That if you are found out to be a prize winner then you WILL get people asking, it goes with the territory. So, sorry, but no I don't feel sorry for the prize winners, I would give anything to be in their shoes, we ALL would.

 

You say no to pm's you don't want and you report anyone who won't take no for an answer. As simple as that.

 

These raffles bring out the worst in people who lost, it is human nature and folks even find themselves behaving as they would not usually.

Except that it didn't bring out the worst in almost every person who plays. There's a certain amount of harassment, but I doubt the number of cases would even amount to half of 1% of total players.

 

Complaints tend to hang in people's minds longer than praise, so I think that's why there's this idea that so many people hate the raffle it may be removed. But if you check out the thread announcing the winners, most people were happy for those who won. Even most of the people who were sad they didn't win didn't wish that the other players hadn't won.

 

As for why people are sympathizing with the prize winners who are being harassed...it's because they're being harassed. Nothing makes that okay, and winning something nice doesn't somehow negate people's general desire to not want to be disrespected or insulted. Whether or not that behavior is simply a product of human nature is kind of immaterial because people are perfectly capable of controlling how they behave in response to their feelings. It's why rules exist - because we know that people are capable of following them.

[Amaterasu-sama]

"I can see teh future. closethreadhammer iz coming" ~ mystery cat

[Dubious]

You are reading WAY too much into a few passing comments. No one has any intention of guilting etc...

REALLY?  Then what is this thread all about?  

I reiterate, you are really reading way more then is there in the comments. Take them at face value as they are intended, stop making conspiracy theories where none exist. Because throwing around such accusations could also be considered harassment.

 

 

As for why people are sympathizing with the prize winners who are being harassed...it's because they're being harassed.  Nothing makes that okay,

 

I shall concede that point. Perhaps my post did come off too harsh and critical there.

 

On another note, I apologise if my comments came across to harshly, they were not in any way intended to offend, cause arguments or cause consiracy theories. They were just a statement of opinion.

 

The exclusive dragon owners reserve the right to state whatever they want and do whatever they want with their dragons, no one is disputing that fact, just as I and others are entitled to feel however we do about it, I would rather hope that no one is disputing that one either.

 

Harassment is very serious and of course if you are being harassed then it is good to know that you can pm a mod for help.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Dubious

[Mistress of Whispers]

As for why people are sympathizing with the prize winners who are being harassed...it's because they're being harassed.  Nothing makes that okay, and winning something nice doesn't somehow negate people's general desire to not want to be disrespected or insulted.

I just want to second this. Of course people are disappointed or even upset that they did not win. And of course almost everyone is eager to get a low-gen Shimmer offspring. But nothing makes it okay to harass other people. And over a bunch of virtual dragons too? I know that DC has a lot of serious players, but really: people trump pixels.

 

Say it with me! People trump pixels.

[ZzelaBusya]

Pretty sure it's not the best decision of mine to post here because I feel like I am among a pack of wolves in this situation (mostly)...

 

But what I do not get is why people cannot be simply...kinder? At least a bit?

 

I am not defending people who deliberately PM others to MAKE them do what they want despite everything. But even if someone like that PMs you, now what? Is it so difficult to say "no, sorry" and keep going?

 

To me, harassment is when you are cheated on, insulted and when the person threatens to post your home address on the forum... Or something like that, something that actually puts your safety in danger. Then it's absolutely clear such a case needs to be reported and looked into. But PMs about dragons?? Come on, this is kindergarten, I cannot find a better expression.

 

I am used to getting PMs with dragon requests and am used to sending PMs to others...that's just what I have always done, what I have always seen as normal and natural and also as a way to get to know more people around the site, because even if you are told a no to several questions you ask about a certain thing, this topic can be left and the conversation can go on about something completely different, I have made some contacts like that before and it would have sucked majorly if they had decided to ignore me or report me instead, you know... And to be honest it's a surprise to me how a person can be SO annoyed by it. The recent issue (this thread that is) has made me worry a lot more about messages and things along the line.

 

People can interpret things so differently. Even though I do PM people, what I do is always ask questions. It doesn't mean I DEMAND a trade or EXPECT someone to trade with me. Heck, sometimes I PM people who have lists with questions about dragons which *I do not even need* myself, just out of interest to know what they used to ask for offsprings and such, to have an idea of how different users value dragons of certain types. And sometimes it creates a wrong impression that if I write a message to someone it means I definitely request something and want them to do something for me.

 

I am fairly certain I am not the only user on the site who does this, so I mentioned my case because this is an example of how things can be misinterpreted.

 

Ignoring messages is a very bitter topic for me. To be honest, maybe it's wrong but I've been raised to have a clear understanding that shutting a door in front of someone, hanging up during a conversation or turning away from someone while they are talking to you is just as inappropriate as actually saying something rude.

 

If a person PMs you in a way you do not like, it does not give you the right to turn into a rude person as well. At least that's how I have always thought about it. No matter who PMs me, it's not a big problem to me to say I am not interested. if they PM me again, I can repeat. If they become rude with me, I will TELL them they appear to be rude to me and therefore I do not want to communicate.

 

Of course I always try to be polite with everyone I get in touch with, but the lines above mean that, to be honest, if a person I wrote to thinks that I am not worth talking to for any reason, I would highly prefer if they simply told me, "You know, I do not want to talk to you because of this and that." Yes, that hurts, too, especially if you considered that person a friend for example, but it is much better than PMing them and getting cold silence in return. THIS is the worst thing. To me, of course.

 

Sooo...yeah. Now feel free to tell me what a terrible person I am because I am actually ready to TALK to people instead of getting everything over to moderators and try to be nice with others despite everything. ='/

Edited February 21, 2013 by ZzelaBusya

[MedievalMystic]

I fully agree with this. If the intention is to only gift 2nd gens to other artists then please don't announce it to the public, obviously people are going to be upset and it just comes off a bit elitist, even though I am certain that this was not in anyway the intention.

 

Well, yeah. If a prize winner goes into the forum and like a two year old starts coming off like 'I have a prize egg, and YOU can't have one, na nah' and coming off like they're rubbing it in people's faces that way, then yeah, they deserve to be called on it. That's as bad as someone harrassing them.

 

At the same time, I think that prize winners should be able to express excitement, happiness, and joy at the win, and freely talk about the egg and dragon, without having to fear a deluge of sour grapes, or a sea of PMs from sore losers or beggers.

 

 

It is common sense that if you announce that you are a prize winner, you WILL get people asking or offspring. That if you are found out to be a prize winner then you WILL get people asking, it goes with the territory. So, sorry, but no I don't feel sorry for the prize winners, I would give anything to be in their shoes, we ALL would.

 

And it's normal for the winners to want to express their excitement without having to worry about listening to the 'woe is me' from people who claim that they're entire year/life/existence is now ruined because of the winner's good fortune and the fact that THEY weren't as fortunate, and shriek about the unfairness of it all from the rooftops.

 

 

I agree, it's nice to answer PMs that are polite, and it's good to be polite, but sometimes it's not that easy. On another game I play, I literally have hundreds of people on a waiting list for offspring from my breeding pairs. Over 500 people on my reserve list at last count. I get PMs all the time. Every single day. Especially on days when I have babies due. I do try and answer as many PMs as I can, but when people don't like the answer and it turns into this back and forth debate on my decisions, it does get annoying. I have users PMing me to blast me because a baby they wanted and was just going to buy got snapped up by someone else, and now they'll NEVER get one, because I released that pair since they were at their max number of babies, and they've waited a YEAR for that baby, and... I mean, really? What do I say? I just got to the point where I don't answer those kinds of PMs anymore. People do think I'm 'rude'. I call it self defense. lol I imagine it's the same with prize winners. They get swamped. If they answered every single PM they'd sit here for hours...or days even.

Edited February 21, 2013 by MedievalMystic

[Dubious]

Ignoring messages is a very bitter topic for me. To be honest, maybe it's wrong but I've been raised to have a clear understanding that shutting a door in front of someone, hanging up during a conversation or turning away from someone while they are talking to you is just as inappropriate as actually saying something rude.

 

If a person PMs you in a way you do not like, it does not give you the right to turn into a rude person as well. At least that's how I have always thought about it. No matter who PMs me, it's not a big problem to me to say I am not interested. if they PM me again, I can repeat. If they become rude with me, I will TELL them they appear to be rude to me and therefore I do not want to communicate.

 

Of course I always try to be polite with everyone I get in touch with, but the lines above mean that, to be honest, if a person I wrote to thinks that I am not worth talking to for any reason, I would highly appreciate it if they simply told me, "You know, I do not want to talk to you because of this and that." Yes, that hurts, too, especially if you considered that person a friend for example, but it is much better than PMing them and getting cold silence in return. THIS is the worst thing. To me, of course.

You are most definitely not alone in thinking this. I completely agree.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Dubious

[Starscream]

I am going to say this. I do not want to see this thread becoming the new raffle argument thread. I do not wish to see this thread locked if it does this.

 

Now for my comments that I've been thinking about regarding gifting.

 

Where it is true that many gifts are simply that, gifts, it is not entirely uncommon for people to give things with the intent of some sort of "kickback". The expectation is very very common. Which is why the discomfort is being noted

 

Examples I have are:

 

My sister works as a planner for a city. She's pretty high up there. So occasionally she is sent "gifts" from people who she has interactions for. But these gifts she has to refuse because it becomes a "conflict of interests". Gifts she has told me she has been given are tickets to shows or games, flowers, chocolates....

 

Chef Marr has mentioned some examples in class recently and said they are tempting, but she too has to refuse. Her examples included people who shipped groceries to the restaurants she worked for, sending a loaded christmas card. When she finally opened hers she found a significant wad of money in it. She sealed it up and sent it back and apparently, she was the only one who did.

 

IRL,I personally dislike being given or have gifts of things forced on me, and some people have a hard time taking a polite sorry I can't as an answer. I feel bad if I do not take the gift because I was taught to accept graciously. I try to reciprocate as best as I can.

 

Being that I am low income, at Christmas I would much rather not be given gifts because there is an expectation to be given gifts in return.

 

I would advise any prize owner, who is suddenly being swampped with gifts, who have either very set plans on how they wish to distribute eggs, or not distribute eggs to avoid taking gifts on the above example grounds "conflict of interests"

 

I feel bad for the people who gift with genuine intent because there are those who do have an ulterior motive. And those who can say, well I gave you a vampire, give me XXX in return! - I have not had this yet.

 

I used to gift more in the past until it became apparent to me people started to expect me to gift them stuff. Which took that pleasure of giving away from me because really, as I said before, I am low income, and this is the only way I can satisfy my desire to be as generous as I can be.

 

I would be all for an anonymous gifting system if it would allow people to give and receive gifts with no uncomfortable feelings.

 

 

[Ruby Eyes]

To be honest I am a quiet person here on the forums (mostly because of my bad English)

Your English doesn't look so bad to me, actually. Either way, now it's my turn to display bad English skills:

Oh - and just to second drabrugon - I have often been glomped. It is a lovely thing to happen. I have also glomped and the thank you PMs are lovely too. Maybe the more you glomp the more you GET glomped ?

... you jump-hugged someone? That's what my dictionary tells me about glomping!

 

 

Regarding suspicious gifts to winners:

I hope I don't have to check people's scrolls for the most recent prize dragons before offering gifts of dragons from their own wishlist ... I mean, seriously? Would I make myself suspicious of harassment just because someone happened to be lucky at some point? I only snuck in for reading the last few pages of this thread, but now I'm somewhat scared.

 

edit: and the above post didn't help at all with that feeling.

*seals her scroll*

Edited February 21, 2013 by Ruby Eyes