Sexism

[Kestra15]

That's Sexism 101, Kestra.

...? Sorry, I'm sexist because I believe men and women are inherently equal?

 

And the most offensive thing you can call a guy is a Schwein (pig) while the most offensive thing you can call a girl is a dumme Kuh (dumb cow).

 

As for the 'Everyday Sexism' project, some posters don't seem to understand what sexism is. For example:

 

On bus home, old man sits next to me and shoves hand down my jeans. I had lost my voice & couldn't say a word. Walked home.

at college, man reached over my shoulder violently grabbed/yanked my breast (was a new mom,really hurt) He thought it funny

A man pinched my bum in a bar last night. I obviously fell straight in love with him.

That's assault, not sexism. It's not tolerated, it's not expected, it's individuals sexually assaulting another individual.

No joke, and old man has come and sat by my feet and looked up my skirt!!!!!

Again, not sexism, just lecherous.

50% of state schools send no girls to sit Physics A level

Firstly, source. Secondly, how many girls chose to sit A-level physics? How many progress for AS to A-level? Figures are easily misinterpreted.

Just talked to an angry taxpayer who kept saying "my dear" in condescending tone. Hate that so much. Do you want my help?!

What, and men never get patronised? I really blow a fuse if some random stranger I don't know keeps calling me 'mate.'

I play rugby at school with boys ( terrible I know, I'm surprised I haven't been crushed yet by their superior strength) and the teacher says that we are allowed to play contact rugby but that the boys must be aware that 'ladies' are playing...

Yes, boys are reminded of that so that *we* don't get into trouble for accidentally grabbing at bits we shouldn't. It's generally fine for male second rows to bind with male front rows by sticking our hands up between their legs and grabbing the shorts/shirt, but if I ever did that to the *female* front row that would be indecency (as the *female* prop warned me).

Boys in my year are convinced they are just naturally better at maths because boys are 'logical' and girls are ' creative'. Clearly girls were designed to just look pretty and make pretty things.

Supported by scientific principles, to an extent. Male brains generally develop with more 'grey' matter, which is more about the logical side of cognitive function, while 'white' matter is much more dominant in the female brain than male brain, which leads to the more creative side, for example better language skills. If it's been presented in a sexist way then yes, it is somewhat sexist. However it is also a basic biological fact; on average, males have more grey matter and females have more white than the opposite sex.

BF and I hanging out washing, neighbour walks past & says ''You've got him well trained!'' We always share all the housework

Who precisely is the sexist remark aimed at there? I personally feel offended when people point out to me that I am 'well-trained' by Amerylis, even though I've always been the one to do the washing up, laundry and cleaning.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Kestra15

[St. Jimmy]

Kestra, those are all sexist actions because they're seen as normal and acceptable by the offenders (as well as a good portion of society).

[Obscure_Trash]

...? Sorry, I'm sexist because I believe men and women are inherently equal?

 

I believe Nix's reply was more along the lines of talking about privilege. The idea that men are superior to women is ingrained in society and those in privilege (males in this case) in the society have the privilege to not even realize they're being told this or even that they are probably, at some point in their life, going to act in some way that conveys this just because it's so normal in society.

 

What, and men never get patronised?

 

The point was that it was condescension (and creepiness) because she was a woman, not that some random guy addressed her in a way she didn't like.

[Fuzzbucket]

Firstly, source. Secondly, how many girls chose to sit A-level physics? How many progress for AS to A-level? Figures are easily misinterpreted.

For the record, a math teacher tried to prevent my daughter taking advanced math, because "girls don't do that - they only need general math". He was actually angry - and said so, publicly - and without a reprimand from anyone except me - when she won the county math prize against other students up to four years older than she was, and based on the same papers.

 

She did take it to A-level. But I would have totally understood if she had given up, though I would like to have persuaded her not to. (She took Physics too.)

[Kestra15]

Kestra, those are all sexist actions because they're seen as normal and acceptable by the offenders (as well as a good portion of society).

A 'good' portion of society? No, it's not a 'good' portion of society that sees it as acceptable for men to assault women.

I believe Nix's reply was more along the lines of talking about privilege. The idea that men are superior to women is ingrained in society and those in privilege (males in this case) in the society have the privilege to not even realize they're being told this or even that they are probably, at some point in their life, going to act in some way that conveys this just because it's so normal in society.

The delicious irony here being that is itself sexist.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Kestra15

[Oakash]

I'm not quite so hardcore about sexism as you guys seem to be. Yes, I get offended when someone says something that is offensive, but usually only if that person actually believes it. I laugh at the jokes that are funny. One of my pet peeves is when woman get mad at men leering at them, when honestly girls stare at guys just as much, they are just a little more discreet about it. But oh no, if a guy makes eye contact for more then 2 seconds, then he's obviously a creep who thinks he can get his way with any girl.

 

I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about women calling all men stupid, or d-bags. But if men blanket all women under needy or whiny then they obviously don't value women at all. I know that I deserve equal rights, but I don't feel the need to nit pick all the little things that men do. I also know that I am more capable of doing stuff then a lot of guys are. I mean, at my church I am the best football player there. And that is including the people who actually play the game, as opposed to me, who only plays for fun.

 

(I'm pretty sure this didn't come out the way I wanted it too. Whatever)

[CrossingStar]

I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about women calling all men stupid, or d-bags. But if men blanket all women under needy or whiny then they obviously don't value women at all. I know that I deserve equal rights, but I don't feel the need to nit pick all the little things that men do. I also know that I am more capable of doing stuff then a lot of guys are. I mean, at my church I am the best football player there. And that is including the people who actually play the game, as opposed to me, who only plays for fun.

You have a point here, I think. Men do get a bad rep because women are - rightfully - upset about all the oppression they've had to deal with. Thus, they unfairly say things like 'men are creeps' or 'insensitive' and stuff. I usually judge people by what they say to me, for example, if some guy starts randomly hitting on me.

[kiffren]

I'm not quite so hardcore about sexism as you guys seem to be. Yes, I get offended when someone says something that is offensive, but usually only if that person actually believes it. I laugh at the jokes that are funny. One of my pet peeves is when woman get mad at men leering at them, when honestly girls stare at guys just as much, they are just a little more discreet about it. But oh no, if a guy makes eye contact for more then 2 seconds, then he's obviously a creep who thinks he can get his way with any girl.

 

I don't see anyone getting all up in arms about women calling all men stupid, or d-bags. But if men blanket all women under needy or whiny then they obviously don't value women at all. I know that I deserve equal rights, but I don't feel the need to nit pick all the little things that men do. I also know that I am more capable of doing stuff then a lot of guys are. I mean, at my church I am the best football player there. And that is including the people who actually play the game, as opposed to me, who only plays for fun.

 

(I'm pretty sure this didn't come out the way I wanted it too. Whatever)

That is a fair point about women looking, though I'd say that women don't look quite as much. There are lots of men who think it's fine to openly stare at a woman's chest. Yeah, there's no harm in a quick look, but staring? Really?

 

Sexism goes both ways. I am a larger proponent of equalism than feminism. Everyone is equal, regardless of sex, gender, age, skin color, sexual orientation, etc.

[CrossingStar]

That is a fair point about women looking, though I'd say that women don't look quite as much. There are lots of men who think it's fine to openly stare at a woman's chest. Yeah, there's no harm in a quick look, but staring? Really?

 

Sexism goes both ways. I am a larger proponent of equalism than feminism. Everyone is equal, regardless of sex, gender, age, skin color, sexual orientation, etc.

Once I accidentally zoned out in a public area and then realized that I'd been staring at some guy's chest for 15 minutes straight Very embarrassing.

[NixAyum]

...? Sorry, I'm sexist because I believe men and women are inherently equal?

 

And the most offensive thing you can call a guy is a Schwein (pig) while the most offensive thing you can call a girl is a dumme Kuh (dumb cow).

I didn't say you were sexist.

 

But the exception does not set the standard. You might think you're not sexist, and ok. But clearly that's not how the majority of other people are.

 

Not in America at least. Anything other than gratuitous cursing is brushed off as nothing unless you're attacking a girl's image or man's masculinity (and doesn't that just say so much).

 

I didn't actually read the everydaysexism site but yes assault bad. Don't you think there's a problem when something as grievous as that is so downplayed? (Consider rape reporting stats with that too.)

[CrossingStar]

Not in America at least. Anything other than gratuitous cursing is brushed off as nothing unless you're attacking a girl's image or man's masculinity (and doesn't that just say so much).

Ugh. I hate the fact that people listen to rap songs that degrade women - for the most part - and make people think it's cool to be 'dope' and whatever. This is definitely part of sexism! I hear it all the time at my school, which is primarily made up of (surprise surprise) black and Hispanic kids.

 

Now please don't get me wrong; I do not hate black people for being black. I just do not agree with the way their culture mocks all the things slaves fought for so long ago, like freedom, women's rights, etc.

[Oakash]

I didn't actually read the everydaysexism site but yes assault bad. Don't you think there's a problem when something as grievous as that is so downplayed? (Consider rape reporting stats with that too.)

I totally agree with you on this. I don't find any rape or assault joke funny. I think they're extremely harmful. Whenever I tell people that we should teach Don't Rape rather then Don't Get Raped.

[CrossingStar]

I tell people that we should teach Don't Rape rather then Don't Get Raped.

Yeah. It's strange how the blame is usually put on the victim, rather than - or simply as much as - the rapist.

[Happyface]

which is primarily made up of (surprise surprise) black and Hispanic kids.

 

Now please don't get me wrong; I do not hate black people for being black. I just do not agree with the way their culture mocks all the things slaves fought for so long ago, like freedom, women's rights, etc.

I feel like this entire part of your post is unnecessary.

I doubt that all "black culture" degrades women and freedom, and I would think that other cultures (under the broad terms of race or ethnicity) in America do things that would piss off their ancestors.

[KageSora]

I think I'm in love with The Hawkeye Initiative.

 

Basically, it's another take on the "girls in comics are posed/dressed in the most ridiculous ways" problem that plagues the industry (seriously, I don't understand how broken spines are sexy). People re-drawing ridiculous female poses with Hawkeye. Often with a similarly ridiculous outfit.

 

It is pure gold. And I think it's a humorous way to point out how stupid it is to have such blatantly objectifying poses and clothes for the women. You can have a sexy woman who has all her organs intact and bones unbroken, y'know.

[Switch]

I think I'm in love with The Hawkeye Initiative.

 

Basically, it's another take on the "girls in comics are posed/dressed in the most ridiculous ways" problem that plagues the industry (seriously, I don't understand how broken spines are sexy). People re-drawing ridiculous female poses with Hawkeye. Often with a similarly ridiculous outfit.

 

It is pure gold. And I think it's a humorous way to point out how stupid it is to have such blatantly objectifying poses and clothes for the women. You can have a sexy woman who has all her organs intact and bones unbroken, y'know.

Yess I saw that the other day on tumblr. I love it too. <3

[KageSora]

Serious question:

 

Why is it that, at least in American culture, men can go shirtless all they want but it's taboo for a woman to?

 

I'm only looking for an answer from somebody who honestly believes that it's wrong for women to be naked from the waist up but okay for men to be.

 

If nobody around here thinks that and can answer as such, that's fine. I'm just honestly wondering about it and want to hear it from somebody on that side.

[prpldrgnfr]

I think I'm in love with The Hawkeye Initiative.

 

Basically, it's another take on the "girls in comics are posed/dressed in the most ridiculous ways" problem that plagues the industry (seriously, I don't understand how broken spines are sexy).  People re-drawing ridiculous female poses with Hawkeye.  Often with a similarly ridiculous outfit.

 

It is pure gold.  And I think it's a humorous way to point out how stupid it is to have such blatantly objectifying poses and clothes for the women.  You can have a sexy woman who has all her organs intact and bones unbroken, y'know.

You may like these sites as well, if you haven't already found them

 

Men in Sterotypical "sexy" Poses

 

Striking a Pose

 

Escher Girls

[KageSora]

I found the Hawkeye Initiative thanks to Escher Girls, that's been a favorite of mine for a while now, I love the redraws people submit and the commentary!

 

OH GOD THAT FIRST ONE THOUGH. I love them both!

[prpldrgnfr]

Me, too. The first time I saw the first one I was It really does point out how stupid "sexy" poses are.

 

I'm glad you like them

[TikindiDragon]

Y'know, there's a part of me wondering here about all those re-posings of comic book characters. Clearly we all know that the women have been drawn to (supposedly) 'look good' to the heterosexual male. And I suppose putting the male characters into those positions does, to a certain extent, serve to make a point. But it's still a pretty male-centric view. I'm under the impression (and correct me if I'm wrong) that women are finding men in those poses hillarious, rather than attractive. As a man I think I'd be rather more interested (and possibly worried, I admit) to see the characters being posed in ways that appeal to women, as opposed to simply switching the genders around.

 

Side note: One thing I don't get is why, when a female character has been posed in a vaugley 'sexy' position with a male character, the re-draw always leaves the character in the secondary position as male (indeed, often changing it to another male super-hero). Wouldn't it make more of a point to have the male character 'fawning' over a non-broken, normal looking female? Or have I missed something?

[KageSora]

I think (from what I've seen) the biggest problem that people take issue with is that the poses are actually hilarious even when it's women--they either have broken anatomy (rubber spines, legs that vanish below the knee, no room for organs in their torsos, needles for feet, etc.) or that the pose is absolutely ridiculous for the situation that the female is in. Often the two go hand in hand.

 

So a lot of them are trying to point out that even if it's women, the poses are laughably bad. I've seen some nice redraws that keep roughly the same pose, but make it much more attractive by fixing the anatomy. Of course, then you have to pick between boobs or butt, since human females don't have spines that would allow you a full view of both at once...

Edited December 4, 2012 by KageSora

[CrossingStar]

Of course, then you have to pick between boobs or butt, since human females don't have spines that would allow you a full view of both at once...

So true It's the biggest male dilemma, I think.

[Slaskia]

Sad thing here is that many of the very 'broken' women pictures in comics were mostly likely done by Rob Liefield, whom is notorious for his horrible anatomy on women, putting 'orgasm faces' on them and his apparent hatred of drawing feet in general.

 

Rob Liefield is deservedly mocked by other artists repeatedly.

[CrossingStar]

There's one issue I want to bring up now, and it may have been brought up before. If not, great, but if so, hit me. With something heavy.

 

~*Begin rant*~

 

I have always been rather unattractive for a woman. There is no shame in this, and I know it, but what about all the others who don't? So many commit suicide - especially young, sensitive teens - after getting depressed (or worse) bullied. Many have criticized how fashion and models affect young girls in America. What I'm saying is nothing new. But I still need to say it.

 

I'm the class nerd, the freak, the person who does her homework and does it well because it's the only damn chance I get to better my life. People look at me weird for not being pretty, for being white, for being a girl. All I see is stupidity and wasted talent.

 

People have said from the time I was two that I'm an 'old soul.' They're right. And I'm proud of it.

 

~*End my ****ing about life*~

 

Censor evasion

Edited December 5, 2012 by NixAyum