Sexism

[lightbird]

Jumping topics slightly, has anyone else seen the European Commission's ill-conceived attempt to encourage young woman to consider a career in science? "Science: It's a girl thing!".

Most Biology students in my University and where I went in Germany are girls to begin with.

 

 

As for the video, it makes me cringe on so many levels. :|

[Rosedamai]

Jumping topics slightly, has anyone else seen the European Commission's ill-conceived attempt to encourage young woman to consider a career in science? "Science: It's a girl thing!".

*Pukes*

 

Oh, so that's how you get a girl interested. Show them cosmetics and some sparkly stuff, sultry pouts, high heels, and of course "fashion stuff" that wouldn't look out of place in the opening theme of a badly made TV show. I see.

 

/sarcasm

 

Honestly, I'm fed up with the idea that girls will only get interested in something if there's flowers, pink, cosmetics, and other "girly" stuff. Why do people think this? I didn't get interested in LOTR because there were gaggles of giggly elf girls tossing pink and purple flowers all around. :/

 

Why does that apply to everything else?

Edited June 22, 2012 by ylangylang

[Kelkelen]

*Pukes*

 

Oh, so that's how you get a girl interested. Show them cosmetics and some sparkly stuff, sultry pouts, high heels, and of course "fashion stuff" that wouldn't look out of place in the opening theme of a badly made TV show. I see.

 

/sarcasm

ARRRRRRRRRGH.

 

Don't get me started on the direction modern Girl Scouting is going in. I am so, SO insulted and embarrassed by the National Council's latest attempts to appeal to today's girls. It's like they're changing it from a patriotic camping and survival club to a... a... sparkly charm bracelet club. AAAAAAAAAGH! There's nothing wrong with presenting a wide variety of potential activities, help everyone develop their own individual talents and interests, and if those are the sparkly pink interests, that's fine... but the bottom line is that it was nature-based, camping-based, and patriotic/pseudo-military in ways for its entire existence, and now they want to change the focus to being some kind of elite girls' club where no one has to ever wear a uniform or admit publicly that they're a girl scout, and where you earn jewelry instead of badges.

[Stripey]

ARRRRRRRRRGH.

 

Don't get me started on the direction modern Girl Scouting is going in. I am so, SO insulted and embarrassed by the National Council's latest attempts to appeal to today's girls. It's like they're changing it from a patriotic camping and survival club to a... a... sparkly charm bracelet club. AAAAAAAAAGH! There's nothing wrong with presenting a wide variety of potential activities, help everyone develop their own individual talents and interests, and if those are the sparkly pink interests, that's fine... but the bottom line is that it was nature-based, camping-based, and patriotic/pseudo-military in ways for its entire existence, and now they want to change the focus to being some kind of elite girls' club where no one has to ever wear a uniform or admit publicly that they're a girl scout, and where you earn jewelry instead of badges.

When I was little (about 20 years ago, give or take a few years), I joined Girl scouts. I wanted to do all the camping and stuff, like the boy scouts did. Boy was I ever disappointed! The troupe I was a part of basically was a "sparkly charm bracelet club" that concentrated on "womanly things" and cookie sales.

I left that quickly, and joined karate instead and had much more fun.

[Zaxian]

Same thing with entertainment. Sometimes, I just want to watch explosions and see blood and someone getting the crap beat out of them (as in a Batman way, not bully way - Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are my favorites right now). However, I don't watch to watch a drama where every character is shallow, predictable, is only interested in secrets/guys/fashion/make-up, and has a better wardrobe than the average person in their career would ever be able to afford.

 

Looks like I found one show I will be avoiding like the plague. I'll stick to Big Bang Theory for science.

Sorry, I'm not sure if I've misread your post, but just to be clear, the link I posted is not the intro to some new TV show (it perhaps would be more acceptable if it was?) - it's apparently a *serious* advertisement for European Commission's "Science: it's a girl thing!' campaign.

 

‘Science: it’s a girl thing!’ is part of the 'Women in Research and Innovation' campaign which aims to encourage girls to develop an interest in science and to engage young women in scientific research careers. Indeed, women remain largely under-represented in the science, technology and research fields in Europe, which constitutes a huge waste of talents. ‘Science: it’s a girl thing!’ will challenge stereotypes around science and show girls that science can be a great opportunity for their future. This pan-European campaign is an initiative of the European Commission’s Directorate General for Research and Innovation.

[Bardess]

Gawd, I hate those kinds of "campaigns".

 

Because they totally, absolutely miss the point. When they advertise the "girly" aspect of some things in order to get girls and women interested - they are implying that females can only be interested in in "feminine" stuff - thus strengthening that prejudice instead of weakening it ~.ô

"Hey, you are a woman, so you can only be interested in pink, fashion and fluffy animals - right? You would be really bored if we told you about mathematics, informatics, explosive chemistry, mindboggling theories regarding spacetime, workings of electricity, meteorology, inventive biotechnology... right? You would never, ever be interested if we told you about that, because, you know, that is boy stuff. BUT science is also about girl things so perhaps maybe you'll like some aspects of it. But we know you'll never like that other stuff."

AAAAAARRRGGH!

 

 

 

Ok, so I love earrings and dress feminine, but I can totally see the fun of chemistry going "boom", I used to be a very big dinosaur fan (wearing pink princess dresses) and I love science just for the sake of it.

Reducing it to sparkly cosmetics? Meh... how boring -.- That would be perfect for keeping me right out of the way.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Bardess

[Kestra15]

Jumping topics slightly, has anyone else seen the European Commission's ill-conceived attempt to encourage young woman to consider a career in science? "Science: It's a girl thing!".

Girls were well-represented in Maths and Pharmacy, Nursing obviously... Sciences doesn't seem to be girl-deficient.

 

It is a horrendously condescending video.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Kestra15

[TikindiDragon]

When I was little (about 20 years ago, give or take a few years), I joined Girl scouts. I wanted to do all the camping and stuff, like the boy scouts did. Boy was I ever disappointed! The troupe I was a part of basically was a "sparkly charm bracelet club" that concentrated on "womanly things" and cookie sales.

I left that quickly, and joined karate instead and had much more fun.

This was my experience too (and at about the same time). I recall doing a lot of 'womanly' things - like crochet, knitting, hostessing, sewing etc. Needless to say I didn't put up with it for long.

 

So, yeah, Girl Scouts doing excessively 'womanly'/'girly' things? Really not new.

[Ashes The Second]

This was my experience too (and at about the same time). I recall doing a lot of 'womanly' things - like crochet, knitting, hostessing, sewing etc. Needless to say I didn't put up with it for long.

 

So, yeah, Girl Scouts doing excessively 'womanly'/'girly' things? Really not new.

Baha, I hate how people over-advertise women doing 'sexually oriented jobs', such as making pink, frilly, fluffy/ect things. >->

 

 

Seriously. I /hate/ the color pink. HATE IT.

[Kelkelen]

This was my experience too (and at about the same time). I recall doing a lot of 'womanly' things - like crochet, knitting, hostessing, sewing etc. Needless to say I didn't put up with it for long.

 

So, yeah, Girl Scouts doing excessively 'womanly'/'girly' things? Really not new.

Yeah, but see, the problem (from my point of view) is that before, it depended a whole lot on your specific troop. I've met loads of young women who had great experiences in Scouting, and a significant handful who had awful ones, and it seemed to depend on the attitude of the adults involved, and what programming they chose to institute. If you had terrible leaders, you still usually had the option of summer camps (or, if you had money, those Wider Ops excursions) to get you out there and doing something. The difference is that now, on an overall national level, they're changing the entire tone and purpose of the organization!

 

My Girl Scout troops were always awesome ones, and I realize I was lucky to have that, judging by the horror stories I've heard. I was in Brownies under one leader, and Juniors, Cadets, and Seniors under another one, and both women were great program planners and role models. My mother ended up as a co-leader of my troop when I was older, too. Through Scouting, I have: gone hiking on a variety of trails, gone caving (I was one of the four who went ALL the way to the farthest depths of the cave, doing belly crawls and chimneying), climbing and rappelling on a 50-foot tower, summer and winter camping in several different campsites including out-of-state ones, mountain biking along the Erie canal, cooked a turkey in a hole in the ground, slept out in the snow, taken trips to Niagara Falls, Assateague Island, Ocean City, Bethany Beach, Cape May, Toronto, Philadelphia, and to several historical battlefields and other sites in Pennsylvania, visited the U.S. Naval Academy, stayed in a decommissioned army barracks, gone on Halloween horror hikes, learned to identify a variety of plants and animals, as well as the parts of a car and how to change a tire, cleaned up highways, planted trees, volunteered at nursing homes, led flag ceremonies, held local ethnic heritage days, did Senior Leadership Development, Survival, Counselor-In-Training and Leader-In-Training courses, helped organize and run a few camp sessions, and I am pretty darn good at starting a one-match fire. I ended up being a counselor for a few years at a Girl Scout camp, and it's still my absolute favorite job to date.

 

We also learned a ton of games, a ton of songs, and there were also more "womanly" things that we did -- there were always crafts of some kind or other when we did winter weekend trips, we did less "outdoorsy" badge work like things about theater or computers or collecting or art, and we also had sleepovers and those who wanted to played with makeup, and things like that. I endorse all those things as well. It was a great experience for me and most of the troops in my area (SW Pennsylvania, the former Loyalhanna Service Unit).

 

So, my complaint is really that, before, individual leaders could *choose* to ignore all the outdoorsy stuff, but it was part of the system -- speaking as someone who saw the inner workings of the organization, it was still at least set up to focus on the outdoors, to open meetings with a flag ceremony and close with a friendship circle, to promote democratic process, to boost esteem and competence in a wide range of activities, to build responsibility, etc. NOW, they're *seriously* changing it to something called "Studio 4B" or something that is a complete mystery name, and you literally earn sparkly charms instead of badges.

 

I am so livid.

[Ashes The Second]

I agree with the whole above post. I wanted to do girl scouts, but then realized I was more of a drama-llama girl, and my first boyfriend ever was in the same theatre class as me, and he broke up with me a month before it ended, and let's just say the scars run a little too deep for a pg-13 board. 8p

Edited June 22, 2012 by Ashes The Second

[Zaxian]

Girls were well-represented in Maths and Pharmacy, Nursing obviously... Sciences doesn't seem to be girl-deficient.

I think it very much depends on which sciences you're talking about - traditionally Biology has more girls to guys, Chemistry's near even, and Physics has more guys. Computer Science is terrible - in my uni course, about 90 students started the course, and 8 of them were girls*. By the final year, at least 3 of those had dropped out/switched courses.

 

(*I should clarify this with 'that I know about' - there are always a couple of reclusive students that only turn up to the exams, and it's possible that these were also female.)

 

This was my experience too (and at about the same time). I recall doing a lot of 'womanly' things - like crochet, knitting, hostessing, sewing etc. Needless to say I didn't put up with it for long.

 

So, yeah, Girl Scouts doing excessively 'womanly'/'girly' things? Really not new.

I was a Brownie ever so briefly as a kid. I remember the Cub scouts of the same age (my brother being one of them) doing things like going out camping, whilst we got 'indoor games' and sewing. I remember the one time they were going to let us do some woodwork (making a little box), but it turned out they'd cut out all the pieces, we were allowed to paint it and they then nailed it together. I stopped going pretty quickly. I was too old for it all by the time the UK 'boy' scouts in my area started accepting female members (some groups accepted them as early as 1991, but they didn't have to until 2007 and it seemed our local one was one of the stubborn ones).

[Rosedamai]

They took down the original video, apparently after receiving too much negative criticism.

 

So here's a new link.

[Ashes The Second]

...I just watched that video and wonder if people are insane sometimes. Or on drugs or something.

[Rosedamai]

...I just watched that video and wonder if people are insane sometimes. Or on drugs or something.

The other videos provided by this program are actually great. But as to the people who made THIS particular video...

 

*has nothing but contempt*

[Zovesta]

Jeebus. I mean, I'm a chick who actually likes doing a lot of traditionally girly things, but I'm aware that I'm not the only kind of woman there is. o_ô Was only able to skim the video because I have to get back to work now, but boy... that's just crazy. I hate crap like that.

[Obscure_Trash]

Reminder: if links don't follow board rules, you need to include a warning.

[7Deadly$ins]

I don't really remember my troupe being a sparkly bracelet club, but I only did it for a few years and I quit when I was still a Brownie.

 

I can't even begin to support the Boy Scouts though, so...

[KageSora]

>_> I don't like chemistry because of the "girly" applications for it. I like it because holy crap it looks freakin' awesome when you make green fire, or blue fire, or have you seen

? There's so much cool crap you can do with it! Things that explode, or light on fire, etc. But, I suppose as a girl I can't like that stuff... '

[Rosedamai]

have you seen

?

That was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. <3

 

But yes, as a woman, I must know my place, and it's back to strutting, pouting, and giggling at cameras. Way of life, you know.

[Sadako]

(quote from me re: ME3)

 

I do not see a problem with that quest, to be honest. First off, there is no kidnapping involved. Not to mention the female Krogan were all willing participants in the experiments. They want to cure the genophage enough to volunteer as test subjects. You are going to Sur'Kesh to pick up the female Krogan to bring her back to her homeplanet where she will frankly be better treated. This is an alliance between groups, and all parties are willing participants.

 

Eve herself is a very strong-willed Krogan who can handle herself. She is just as excited as anyone that her race is not going into extinction. There are no forced breeding programs to be had, nor any kidnapping. Nor any forcing of any kind. A demo is supposed to give you a taste of the game. Obviously they aren't going to go into the character development and politics that went into the situation because then why would you buy the game?

 

I also don't have a problem with lowering Lara's cup size. I think it makes her less of a sex object. Putting all the other things wrong aside (the near-rape, etc), I don't have a problem with this one.

Like, daaaays late, but: none of that was detailed in the demo. Just:

 

Krogan: Let's go get those females! They're immune to genophage and I must mate with them because I are alpha male!!

 

Shep: I see no flaw in that plan! Let's go!

 

*cue fight sequence, Sadako goes 'ugh, I'd rather be playing Red Dead than bride-raiding the Salarians' and gives up on demo*

 

If anyone had ever used the term 'rescue' or 'help', it would have been a different matter, but they kept saying 'get', acquire, take, as if the females were mindless objects and wossname had every right to exert his will upon them. If the demo hadn't disgusted me so, I might have played the game and found out that this Eve character was strong-willed and/or interested in the male krogan. From the sound of it, it wasn't nearly as bad as the demo made it seem--and that is my exact problem with it. To put that tiny and apparently non-representative part of that quest in the demo that they were releasing to people to show them what the game is like, and to expect people with vaginas not to get butthurt over it--it's a bit much. It was just terrible marketing is all.

[7Deadly$ins]

Fair enough. I didn't play the demo but it doesn't really sound representative of what actually happened in the game.

[TikindiDragon]

I was a Brownie ever so briefly as a kid. I remember the Cub scouts of the same age (my brother being one of them) doing things like going out camping, whilst we got 'indoor games' and sewing. I remember the one time they were going to let us do some woodwork (making a little box), but it turned out they'd cut out all the pieces, we were allowed to paint it and they then nailed it together. I stopped going pretty quickly. I was too old for it all by the time the UK 'boy' scouts in my area started accepting female members (some groups accepted them as early as 1991, but they didn't have to until 2007 and it seemed our local one was one of the stubborn ones).

Yeah, I suppose that technically I was in the Girl Guides. I'm just not sure if that term was ever in use in the US.

 

Although once I was in my late teens/early twenties I did become involved in running a 'boy' scout troop. That was great fun.

[Rosedamai]

A person that does not get why the "Science; it's a girl thing" vid was bad

 

Unfortunately this seems to be quite prevalent, after reading some of the comments on the ad that I've seen.

[Kelkelen]

Yeah, I suppose that technically I was in the Girl Guides. I'm just not sure if that term was ever in use in the US.

U.S. = Girl Scouts. U.K. and Canada and Australia = Girl Guides.

 

Same thing more or less, but I don't really know about the differences... GSUSA was the head organization, and perhaps the regulations and structure were different for Girl Guides. (And I'm sure some things *must* have been different, like the flag ceremony/pledge of allegiance stuff, etc.)

 

Also... ylangylang, that ad? Wow. Just wow. I guess the way to appeal to women is to include models in high fashion doing a catwalk strut, striking sexy poses, popping their feet cutely, and blowing kisses. Throw in a lot of pink, lipstick, nail polish, blush, stiletto heels, add the suggestion that you will stop the hot men in their tracks when you enter the room, plus the suggestion that this is something AMAZING and daring and everyone will be in awe of you for being a female in this field, and you've got it made. >_< Not sexist AT ALL.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Kelkelen