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...There are guys who pretend to be girls online, because then the other male gamers get interested in them, and buy them high-level armor and stuff...

"Welcome to the internet! Where men are boys, the women are men, and children are the FBI!"

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"Welcome to the internet! Where men are boys, the women are men, and children are the FBI!"

That made me laugh so much. xd.png

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Of course. smile.gif No offense intended. My tone probably didn't carry out too well.

 

But really, in many other communities, this sort of thing is getting out of hand. There are guys who pretend to be girls online, because then the other male gamers get interested in them, and buy them high-level armor and stuff. There's even a word for it, I believe.

 

One may argue that "hey, it's a good thing, because you're being treated nicer because you're a girl" only...it isn't. Sometimes it's done in the hopes that you'll meet them in real life. Sometimes they demand things of you. It's annoying. I'd rather that they cease interest altogether.

LOL, guys pretending to be girls to get better gear - brilliant tongue.gif

 

I'm guessing its an individual thing ylang, some girls probably like the attention and enjoy getting things for free, others dont enjoy it like you, in a same manner some guys treat everybody the same while others are nice or jerks towards girls...

 

You dont have to accept things for free,you dont have to say you're a girl/guy,you can ignore people you dont like but most importantly concentrate on having fun and dont get upset every time you meet a jerk, online or in rl, its like "great, another one, ignore and keep it moving" after all you dont even know eachother so its as insignificant as it can be...

Allowing retards to spoil your fun makes no sense, thats all Im saying dry.gif

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Allowing retards to spoil your fun makes no sense, thats all Im saying  dry.gif

Of course. It's just that it gets tiring after the millionth time tongue.gif one of the reasons that I prefer flash games. And there are cases of verbal sexual harassment while playing games, which tends to suck the game's fun right off.

 

I sorta quit MMORPGs after that. Flash games offer fun, without the other people. Lol I'm becoming more and more of a hermit, it seems. wink.gif

Edited by ylangylang

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BTW, thats funny, coz elderly are more racist, more bitter, more blunt, and just as much asses if not more... matter of fact most of those elderly ones you talk about are more likely to be more sexist than anyone from the new generation.. just think about their generation and what was it like for women....

Just like everyone else, elderly people are individuals. That said, my dad's ~80 year old uncle is a real piece of work. I love him to bits, but wow. On the other hand, my grandma is going to be 90 in a month and doesn't seem to be too stuck in her generational thinking regarding women and gays.

 

I suspect they were making the argument that it wasn't rape in the same sense over the debate on killing children in Skyrim.

 

That doesn't even make sense. It's a sentence, but then everything after "in the same sense" is just tacked on, contextless words that make no sense. Try again? So that we can have a clue what you are trying to communicate? Or better yet, please don't. I think the person who brought it up was pretty obviously tired of people attempting to explain to her why a blatantly obvious rape mod wasn't reeeeeeally a rape mod and doesn't particularly want to hear it here.

 

you dont have to say you're a girl/guy

 

It would be nice to be able to be seen as what one is while playing a multiplayer video game without having to put up with twits who will make a stink about it. I've used androgynous screen names for online games for more than a decade simply because I don't want to put up with the BS I got when I didn't. If it were just a couple of twits here and there, but it's not, Evil One. It's enough of them that I, at least, have felt the need to cover myself in a digital shroud in order to avoid them.

 

Like ylangylang said, it gets tiring after too much. And then people say someone is being oversensitive if they react to the million and oneth instance...especially interesting coming from people who would scream and shout if they ever had to put up with even ten instances :/ Like the guys who suddenly "get it" when they find themselves the targets of another man's interest.

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That doesn't even make sense. It's a sentence, but then everything after "in the same sense" is just tacked on, contextless words that make no sense. Try again? So that we can have a clue what you are trying to communicate? Or better yet, please don't. I think the person who brought it up was pretty obviously tired of people attempting to explain to her why a blatantly obvious rape mod wasn't reeeeeeally a rape mod and doesn't particularly want to hear it here.

 

It's not real? The Skyrim mod on killing children had two distinct sides: those who thought killing children in the game was the worst thing ever, and those who thought that it's similar to killing the adults.

 

 

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It's not real? The Skyrim mod on killing children had two distinct sides: those who thought killing children in the game was the worst thing ever, and those who thought that it's similar to killing the adults.

Thanks for explaining what that debate was and putting some context out there.

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It would be nice to be able to be seen as what one is while playing a multiplayer video game without having to put up with twits who will make a stink about it.  I've used androgynous screen names for online games for more than a decade simply because I don't want to put up with the BS I got when I didn't.  If it were just a couple of twits here and there, but it's not, Evil One.  It's enough of them that I, at least, have felt the need to cover myself in a digital shroud in order to avoid them.

 

Like ylangylang said, it gets tiring after too much.  And then people say someone is being oversensitive if they react to the million and oneth instance...especially interesting coming from people who would scream and shout if they ever had to put up with even ten instances :/  Like the guys who suddenly "get it" when they find themselves the targets of another man's interest.

First of all you have to decide whether you're playing a multiplayer game for the social aspect of making friends or merely for enjoying the game in a way thats different from solo-ing it.

 

If you're in it for the social aspect then ofc you'll deal with the same stuff you're dealing with in rl when socializing with people, some of it will be bad some nice...

 

I play diablo with ylangylang, I dont have the slightest idea whether its a he or a she, ylangylang sounds Asian to me but thats about it, it can be some book character or a nickname or whatever, we're playing diablo, dps, hp, strategies and in game experiences are the only things that concern me, i dont care about whether ylangylang is 13 or 58, a girl or a guy and whoever is playing a multiplayer game for the sake of playing the game doesnt care about those things either.

 

second part...

 

If people say its oversensitive to react thats not true, there are a few possible reactions :

 

1. fire back, tear him/her a new one, not oversensitive at all, maybe slightly childish but I dont mind doing that at all coz Im not gonna take no BS from anyone, especially not from some pathetic censorkip.gif** who feels overpowered while hiding behind his/her computer screen.

2. ignore him/her, probably a more peaceful and a smarter move, you just ignore the comment as it didnt happen, dont get upset over it coz after all lets face it that random guy/girl you've encountered once on the internet is almost as significant to you as some random bug in Africa...

3. lose faith in humanity and gaming community and stop playing the games you actually had fun playing.. That reaction makes no sense, if you let some censorkip.gif** you dont even know spoil the fun for you, shame on you ! to that reaction I could say oversensitive but I would much rather go with unacceptable !!!

To allow some random creep such power over something thats fun for you ? If you cant handle retards on the internet how you gonna handle anything in life at all dry.gif

 

So ylanylang, when you say you have moved on to flesh games coz of it, I say WTF is wrong with you ? Is that who you wanna be ?

You are a girl, living in a world where we make all the rules and you choose to run away ? If you ever wanna be a strong independant woman you need to put that rhino skin on and be tough as a nail (on the inside, on the outside its up to you what you do) coz unlike us guys you will have to prove yourself over and over again, you need to flourish in those exact environments where you will be bugged 33 million times a day, thats where you build your character thats where you test yourself, thats where you succeed, and no matter whats thrown your way you keep taking it with a bloody smile on, in threads like this one where 99% of the feedback you'll get is supportive you dont really get to overcome adversity and all this equality talk is great but if your actions of backin it up are "I face a non friendly situation so I just run away" well thats like failing in life period...

 

If this offends/upsets you, GOOD !!! you know why ? coz 90% of the people wont care whether you're upset or offended, so get mad, stand your ground and give them hell coz either you put people in their place and receive their respect for it or you let them run you over, your choice, it is what it is whether you like it or not....

Edited by The Evil Doer

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I do definitely agree with TheEvilDoer's statement that there's no point in letting one or two nasty voices ruin your fun.

 

The sad fact is that women run into this kind of nastiness -- insults, belittling, sexual come-ons, racist sexism, bullying -- very, very frequently in the *majority* of online gaming groups. Sure, it may be just a few people in each group, but they're vocal, and it's all over. There is a real problem with that. Especially because you can't just up and find another group and say, "well, that was one bad egg, but now I'm done with it!" It's something a woman has to enter any new gaming group *braced for.* Isn't there something the matter, when this behavior is so closely woven into the fabric of the hobby?

 

Sure, a tough skin is important to have, but isn't it sad that women really couldn't enjoy this hobby easily without one? It's also not the women's job to teach or force the men to respect them! People are responsible for their own behavior!

 

I'm always overwhelmed by how prevalent this kind of sexual bullying is when I try to imagine having a daughter and how on earth I would go about preparing her for what she would see and hear. And then, preparing her to stand up for herself, knowing that the backlash for speaking up instead of staying quiet could be on the scale of those Feminist Frequency journal responses. And I certainly wouldn't be doing her any favors by telling her it wasn't a big deal, that it's just words, that things like trafficking of women are much bigger, more "real" forms of sexism, so she shouldn't even bother trying to change the atmosphere of the gaming hobby...

 

It's a problem that somehow needs to be addressed by more than just 'the women should be tough and speak up when it happens.'

Edited by Kelkelen

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@ TheEvilDoer (again) - You can only fight back so much, and you can only ignore so much. I decided to take the route of no longer playing games online, but still enjoy them with my friends at their house. Personally, I prefer it that way, anyway. More social interaction. And throwing popcorn at your friend while they're trying to concentrate is hilarious.

 

You've got to remember - the phrase "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is a complete lie. There are things that people can say to you that you just can't get over or let go. It's not being "oversensitive" or "unacceptable," it's called feeling. If something hurts your feelings, you can't just brush it off and be all "Whatever..." if it really upset you. Someone can spoil your fun, and it does happen. I can tolerate 100 censorkip.gif***s trying to spoil my fun, making jokes about my strategies and how I play, but I can't tolerate 101 censorkip.gif***s. It's just drawing the line at what you can and can't handle.

Its not a lie at all, words harm only if you choose to let them, if its people you know and care about, getting hurt by their words is cool coz after all they know you and what they think of you is important to you, but if you allow me to hurt your feelings, a person who knows nothing about you, thats kinda your choice which falls into the category of your self esteem , there is nothing you can say that will hurt my feelings, there is plenty you can say that can make me angry but the only people who can hurt my feelings are the ones I care about...

 

It's just drawing the line at what you can and can't handle.

 

I suggest you start thinking in terms of, "there is nothing anybody can throw my way that I cant handle" coz you dont wanna draw lines on what you cant handle or cant do or anything along those lines...

 

edit - Kelkelen, all people need to toughen up, not only women, world of animals and men is ruled by the simple rule "survival of the fittest" it doesnt matter if you have a girl or a boy you will need to teach both of them to bite back coz weak ones get eaten by the wolves... as simple as that, be a wolf wink.gif

Edited by The Evil Doer

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One or two, no, but dozens? :/ It's like, after you encounter so many jerks, you don't want to play anymore because you know that it won't be fun because of the jerks. It's kinda like that friend you used to play with at school when you were a kid who just HAD to 1 up you and insult you whenever they did. You brush it off the first few times, and, by the end of the year, you don't want to play with them anymore. (I'd find a better allusion, but I feel as if though this is one that most people can relate to.)

Entonces, see the rest of my post. smile.gif

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Silly me. I did read your post, but it didn't click until I reread the last part.

 

It's a problem that somehow needs to be addressed by more than just 'the women should be tough and speak up when it happens.'

Yeah... I tried in that second paragraph to explain what I think you did much more clearly: that it isn't just a rare voice or two, and thus easy to tune out. It's SO common that there's really no getting away from it, which means it's a real problem. A lot of male gamers' reactions to any discussion of sexism in the gaming community really just boil down to repetitions of the same crappy stereotypes; if women are upset by the way the men behave, it's because the women are "being too sensitive," not because the men ought to change their behavior. Ugh!

 

**Disclaimer!!!**

 

Though I DO want to add that this is not my opinion of ALL men or all male gamers. Just to be clear. I love rpgs, board games, and card games, worked in a store that sold them plus comics for 5 years straight, my co-workers were all male and were all very good to women, and most of my male friends are gamers of some form or other. So, while I'm pointing out what I see as a very real problem of misogyny in gaming, I'm NOT trying to accuse ALL men of anything. Just a disclaimer for anyone of the male persuasion who feels uncomfortable when we all start talking about something that *is* predominantly done by men to women.

 

It stinks any time you have to look at something rotten that is done by a group you are affiliated with, whether by sex, gender, ethnicity, religion, nationality, or any other factor. But you get to be the good guy/girl, any time you can step back and assess it as neutrally as possible, and do what you can to remedy the problem, either by changing your own behavior if you find out that you might need to, or by attempting to stop the problem and stand up for what's right. I know that I often find it unpleasant to discuss bad things that some groups of women do, or that some groups of Americans do, but I have to remind myself that it isn't personal unless it *does* describe something that I do, personally; and that I can be part of the solution, if I engage with it fully.

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Sorry to change the subject, but I need some advice.

 

How does a male break through that first initial "you sexist pig" reaction and make someone realise that they are not, actually, sexist? Further, when someone after that snap decision, decides you're an abusive *** that you're not actually an abusive ***?

 

I just get so sick of this. I get so tired of people calling me a male chauvinist, a sexist pig, an abusive ***, a "tool of oppression". It's really infuriating -- and I'm not easy to make angry.

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If someone is that far against you, there probably isn't much you can do, to be honest. Especially since, IIRC, you are in a polyarmorous relationship. This is something very firmly ingrained against in many parts of society, so a lot of people are going to have a problem with it, consenting adults or not.

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Sorry to change the subject, but I need some advice.

 

How does a male break through that first initial "you sexist pig" reaction and make someone realise that they are not, actually, sexist? Further, when someone after that snap decision, decides you're an abusive *** that you're not actually an abusive ***?

 

I just get so sick of this. I get so tired of people calling me a male chauvinist, a sexist pig, an abusive ***, a "tool of oppression". It's really infuriating -- and I'm not easy to make angry.

Approach them in a polite manner and ask them why do they feel the way they do, try to be honest and tell them that you really wanna know coz if you're doing something wrong you would like to change it, ask them to help make you a better person no strings attached ofc, most decent girls will be glad to help out as long as you are honest about it....

Edited by The Evil Doer

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If someone is that far against you, there probably isn't much you can do, to be honest. Especially since, IIRC, you are in a polyarmorous relationship. This is something very firmly ingrained against in many parts of society, so a lot of people are going to have a problem with it, consenting adults or not.

The really annoying thing is that it's not just one person. I can be getting along lovely with someone, and then one or both of the girls show up -- and suddenly I'm a sexist pig -- not just because of the polyamory, but because both Aish and Nin cover their heads.

 

So....I'm a sexist, abusive censorkip.gif*** and their just experiencing Stockholm, because I...let them wear what they want?

 

I mean I at least understand the concept of me being a sexist censorkip.gif*** because people see me with two wives and therefore, I don't care about women's rights. I can see where that comes from, especially if I say I wouldn't be comfortable with either of them bring in another man.

 

It's not true-- but I understand where the idea comes from. It's the "I don't rule their wardrobe, therefore I'm sexist" thing I don't get.

 

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The really annoying thing is that it's not just one person. I can be getting along lovely with someone, and then one or both of the girls show up -- and suddenly I'm a sexist pig -- not just because of the polyamory, but because both Aish and Nin cover their heads.

 

So....I'm a sexist, abusive censorkip.gif*** and their just experiencing Stockholm, because I...let them wear what they want?

 

I mean I at least understand the concept of me being a sexist censorkip.gif*** because people see me with two wives and therefore, I don't care about women's rights. I can see where that comes from, especially if I say I wouldn't be comfortable with either of them bring in another man.

 

It's not true-- but I understand where the idea comes from. It's the "I don't rule their wardrobe, therefore I'm sexist" thing I don't get.

People have a tough time understanding other people's cultures, western people see your way of living as abnormal hence disrespectful in a same manner Im guessing some of your countrymen view western dress code as ****ty... its all about culture differences...

 

edit - covering female's heads originated as a means to prevent males from getting horny hence the concept of it is viewed as sexist, the fact they choose to cover their heads is dependant on their culture which is viewed as sexist by the western world, as their husband you are the "enforcer" of that culture hence you represnt it and its your fault coz of it....

Edited by The Evil Doer

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People have a tough time understanding other people's cultures, western people see your way of living as abnormal hence disrespectful in a same manner Im guessing some of your countrymen view western dress code as ****ty... its all about culture differences...

 

I'm an English guy in Texas.

 

covering female's heads originated as a means to prevent males from getting horny hence the concept of it is viewed as sexist, the fact they choose to cover their heads is dependant on their culture

 

Not according to the girls, but that's probably what people think, yeah.

Edited by greylight

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I'm an English guy in Texas.

 

 

 

Not according to the girls, but that's probably what people think, yeah.

Well Goddamnit man, you should move to Utah tongue.gif

 

Well, the origin of the law is from Quran and thats what it serves, I dont know what they think it is about but western people see it as a sexist thing to do coz basically its making women change coz men cant handle "themselves"

 

In case of your wives its really a problematic matter coz they were raised in a certain manner.. Its hard to change fundametal things after a few decades...

 

In western world as long sa you have two wives who cover themselves on top of everything, you will be a sexist dude... Its just what it is....

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Well, the origin of the law is from Quran and thats what it serves

 

Technically, it originated in the Old Testament, but.

 

I dont know what they think it is about

 

Complicated. The formerly-Muslim pagan views it as a homage to the goddess Manāt , who is always pictured with her head covered.

 

The formerly Haredi Jew-pagan views it as a symbol of womanhood and femininity. (And pretty, she says, I musn't forget pretty.)

 

In western world as long sa you have two wives who cover themselves on top of everything, you will be a sexist dude... Its just what it is....

 

Sigh. And if I ordered them to not cover -- well. They'd kick my butt. And I really would be sexist.

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Not according to the girls, but that's probably what people think, yeah.

Given that it is likely what people are thinking, now you have a point at which you can explain to them that your wives are exercising their rights to choose their own attire and you've got nothing to do with what they wear. If these people don't believe you when introduced to something that challenges their sexist attitudes of assuming that every woman who covers her head has been forced to, then...write them off as sexist?

 

Coz one of our best feats is adaptiveness, you can sit and hope it will all work out or you can adopt to the situation and take control

 

Next time you run into a patch of poison oak, adapt to it and take control instead of showing your weakness by walking away from it. Definitely don't go get the Round-Up, because after all, poison oak just happens and there's nothing anyone can do about it, so you better just toughen up and fight fire with fire.

 

If you come back saying "it's different", I'll say...no, not really. Poison oak is overtly offensive to keep things away from it. Sexist jerks in video games are often like that so they can defend their territory from incursions by anything different than themselves, so they can have their "man caves" free from having to think about respecting others. They sure ain't like that so as to be welcoming.

 

the fact that they werent brave enough to ask for help

 

Based on what you've said here, I wouldn't have asked you for help when I was suicidally depressed simply because I would have perceived asking you as asking for yet another kick while I was down. Keep that in mind while you are judging the departed for being cowardly. Be angry with people who have committed suicide. It's an understandable reaction. Just be careful with that anger.

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Warning for non-PG-13 site: notinthekitchenanymore.com/

 

A very good site where a female gamer recorded all the times she got sexually harassed. She bites back, though smile.gif

 

Oops, sorry, Sock. I'd forgotten to put in the warning.

Edited by ylangylang

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I have been reading through the two websites that have been posted up farther on this page, one which the sensors won't allow and notinthekitchenanymore.com

 

Although I find it completely disgusting and straight out cruel and crude, I had to laugh at the women who bit back. Even though I know this rarely solves the problem, and when it does hundreds more pile up, it still goes for a good laugh every now and again. I have to say, I quite enjoy messing with the male gendered gamers who mess with women (I refuse to call them men). When more than just a woman stands up for women, guys every once in a while start to listen, or at least ragequit and don't bother the group anymore.

 

On the other side of the arguement, I absolutely cannot stand when a woman claims sexism constantly, but when it comes to anything she does not want to do, she claims she can't because she's a woman. (We have a girl like this in our school) I wouldn't have a problem if she said she wasn't capable of performing what was being asked of her, but she pegs it on it being something for guys. For example, she constantly talks about how she doesn't ever want to pay for anything in a relationship, doesn't want to work at a high level, and/or doesn't want to take care of the children even if she wasn't working, but says that if she gets payed less than her husband, crap will hit the fan. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against equal payment and equal rights, but there are women who cling to those statements, but in all honestly, only want to be equal when they would be shorted. They play the system and try to come ahead wherever they can and if they fail or would come out behind, cling to equal rights and equal payment.

 

All in all, sexism is wrong, whether it comes from the male side or the female. Even Bibically speaking, sexism isn't accounted for or justified. The Bible says, wives should submit to their husbands, but husbands should respect their wives.

 

There we go. I can cross multi-sided rant off of my todo list today.

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Actually, funnily enough, having poked through that blog there is a comment from someone else she posted that I have found to be true - it's never seemed, to me, to be half so bad on the PC as it is on the XboX. Bearing in mind that I've been gaming for far, far longer than I've been openly identifying as male.

 

Dunno wether that's part of a difference between XboX and PC gamers (the guys on the PC games don't seem to be so douchy towards each other, either) but, yeah. That has been my experience of it. Commentry on different types of gamers perhaps.

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