Ascension

[Kirbyburn]

I still believe it should be more like vampire thing. A slight failure rate, with a cooldown of a couple of weeks, or so. It'll make it not so instant, and a bit more challenging. Good for both parts, who want it to be relatively easy or achievable, and for those looking for a greater challenge.

Thats why i suggested some dragons should have hidden types of conditions besides aging.

[Fuzzbucket]

You have absolutely no idea that that is going to come to pass anymore than any other new feature or event that has occured on DC.

^this^

We have no idea what is planned. TJ's mind is a mystery to most of us at least.

 

But you argue all the time that the potions are so much more fun than "simply clicking an action" and that we (who don't like it) have to see how great and rewarding searching endlessly for them is. Well, it isn't, not to many players.

^this too^

 

Not that I am adamantly against it; I am against anything that would require sitting on the computer 8 hours a day to be able to play like others can. Useless objects for Christmas and Hallowe'en made no real difference to the game. This would, potentially. And while OK, I can live with a bit of hoarding as long as it is optional and everything available can be achieved without it (not counting a huge collection of broken pottery and emerald bangles..) I would hate to see this as the start of a slippery slope. The prize dragons were borderline; you could never hope for a CB unless you had time to do a tree... I wasn't wild about that.

 

Because many of us like this game just because it CAN be time-thrifty !

Edited March 14, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[RheaZen]

Thats why i suggested some dragons should have hidden types of conditions besides aging.

Sounds like we're getting rather complicated...

[olympe]

Oh right, you were attacking my preference for challenge over merely staring at a clock. I prefer not to turn my brain off for my entertainment.

 

@Lyth: Please attack the argument, not the person. Insinuating that I like to turn my brain off for entertainment isn't the way to go if you want to win any argument with me.

 

And, even if you feel you have to attack an argument, please read the whole line of argument instead of repeating yourself over and over again. Just because my mind was going a few steps further without me expressly putting them into words the first time around doesn't mean the whole argument is moot. The fact that you don't like my line of argument doesn't mean it's moot, either.

#

Also, the fact that some people prefer to reward patience rather than repeating the same "interesting" action of clicking an action over and over again does not mean that their way is worse than yours. Patience is as valuable a trait as diligence. So, let me turn this around: Why do you have to be so impatient that you cannot wait for your dragons to be able to ascend naturally?

 

Also, the "ascension via magic potion" already affects the discussion about "ascension via time", which is what I hoped wouldn't happen. In order to make the search for the magic potion viable, people are now suggesting more or less severe limits on people's ability to ascend their dragons. Because search wouldn't make as much sense if you could ascend all your dragons older than X months once ascension is available. So, ascension needs to be limited to give the people with a clicking addiction a greater sense of accomplishment once they actually find the ascension potion.

 

So, yes, the discussion aboub ascension through a potion already affects the simple solution I'd like to see implemented.

 

(And, before you get started, I don't mind a limit to ascension, as long as it is within reason. 1 dragon each months is way beyond what I consider reasonable, but freezing limits for ascending just might work.)

[Kila]

Guys.

 

Step back for a second and look at the bare basics here.

 

Two methods of Ascending, both entirely optional. Both end the same way, with the dragon Ascending.

 

Method one: Age.

 

This method works well for people like DN, who dislike the use of items. It works well for myself, since I'm incredibly busy with school. It works for lazy people who just don't want to search for a speedy option.

 

Method two: Finding some sort of magic item.

 

This method works for people who are bored and don't want to wait. It works for people who have enough time to sit down and actively hunt for this item.

 

This is comparable to something I face every day. Bus routes. Now bear with me, here.

 

I have two choices to get home from school. The 270 Express, which will take me directly to my destination, or the 16/3/94, which will take me downtown to St. Paul where I'll have to transfer to the 64 to get home.

 

The 270 requires a two hour wait for me to catch it, and takes me 45 minutes to get home. The 16/3/94 route takes an hour, then the 64 takes me another hour. That's two hours total.

 

So, do I wait patiently for the 270? Or do I take the longer route that I can catch at any time? Both routes will get me home.

 

DN, while I can understand your fear of items becoming necessary, I think your logic is a little faulty. It's based on speculation. You don't know that TJ will make items a necessary part of the game, and even if an item is required for one method of ascention, there is still the other option that involves waiting. Those that choose to use items are not hurting you or forcing you to change your style of gameplay. An argument based speculation that items will be needed for other aspects of the game just because it would be a method for ascending is just a bit paranoid, in my opinion. A little paranoia never hurts, but it seems as if you're saying that it will happen, similar to Chicken Little and the whole "the sky is falling" thing. I'm 99% positive that TJ will never implement feeding, clothing, or any other item based activity (that actually affects gameplay and not badges on top of the scroll) here on DC.

 

The way I see it, Search is just a way for dragons to add to their hoard. A pointless little feature, like ascention, the Leetle Trees, Splash and the holiday events. I could even argue that Incubate, Influence, and Earthquake are pointless. And I will.

 

Before those BSAs, we had to wait to see what gender our hatchling was. We had to wait for our dragons to hatch or grow. The game was still playable. Even with their addition, the game is still playable without them. The same can be said for the holiday events (excluding this Christmas, because I don't know of any backlash that might have occurred from the prize dragons). They have all been to collect pointless little items that have no impact on the game at all.

 

Sounds kind of like Search, right?

 

The only addition to Search would be that Ascention item (be it a potion, text, or what have you), which simply speeds up a process.

 

So the Ascention item is similar to Incubate. It speeds up an otherwise long process, the result of which can still be attained the old fashioned way without an item.

 

So, ignoring the "sky's about to fall" argument, I ask you this: What is so wrong with having two methods of Ascention?

[DragonNighthowler]

If it stops there. If it does not go any further, then I don't mind any more than I would mind about those who use EQ.

 

But I still fear it will go further. Maybe I'm paranoid? Maybe, but I've seen many great games ruined before due to things like these.

[Kila]

Why do you think it would go further? Members have expressed that they don't want things like clothing, feeding, etc. The last I checked, TJ doesn't want that either.

[HeatherMarie]

However, many maaaaany people were vocally against Teleport, and yet it's coming.

 

I hope TJ would never take the item thing to extremes, and I have faith that he won't totally change DC, but it's still a worry when talking about this kind of stuff.

[DarkMark3]

I feel that when a dragon acends, it should do so by having a good BSA/breeding history:

 

Bsa dragons would ascend after 7 successful BSAs(yes, including all the BSAs that have no negative effects)

 

Non-BSA dragons would ascend after 7 breedings that produced and egg of their breed

 

Non-breedables would ascend after they have been on the scroll for a month

[skinst]

However, many maaaaany people were vocally against Teleport, and yet it's coming.

That was due to assumptions about the AP, but that's another arguement.

[RheaZen]

I feel that when a dragon acends, it should do so by having a good BSA/breeding history:

 

Bsa dragons would ascend after 7 successful BSAs(yes, including all the BSAs that have no negative effects)

 

Non-BSA dragons would ascend after 7 breedings that produced and egg of their breed

 

Non-breedables would ascend after they have been on the scroll for a month

Euurrrgggh no.

 

That's essentially forcing people to use BSAs/Breed. Nada.

[HeatherMarie]

I feel that when a dragon acends, it should do so by having a good BSA/breeding history:

 

Bsa dragons would ascend after 7 successful BSAs(yes, including all the BSAs that have no negative effects)

 

Non-BSA dragons would ascend after 7 breedings that produced and egg of their breed

 

Non-breedables would ascend after they have been on the scroll for a month

No way! That would "influence playing style", as people say, way more then any of the other suggestions in this thread. What about people who don't breed? They'd be out of luck. No thanks.

[Fuzzbucket]

No way! That would "influence playing style", as people say, way more then any of the other suggestions in this thread. What about people who don't breed? They'd be out of luck. No thanks.

Exactly. As to teleport - well, let us not forget that TJ never intended to have trading (I believe) - people found a way to do it and it was so popular (and also so unreliable) that....

[DragonNighthowler]

Why do you think it would go further? Members have expressed that they don't want things like clothing, feeding, etc. The last I checked, TJ doesn't want that either.

I never said it would go down to clothing. I think I mentioned my fear was, mainly, that while now we might have 2 options (manually and potion), someday we might get a new something (maybe Super Saiyan form), which would be potion only.

 

That's my fear, that we'll be obligued to go hunting for potions in the future to get new things.

 

Edit;

I feel that when a dragon acends, it should do so by having a good BSA/breeding history:

 

Bsa dragons would ascend after 7 successful BSAs(yes, including all the BSAs that have no negative effects)

 

Non-BSA dragons would ascend after 7 breedings that produced and egg of their breed

 

Non-breedables would ascend after they have been on the scroll for a month

 

No, just NO. Everyone has the right to play however they wish. AND we don't need AP clogged with common eggs because of it.

Edited March 15, 2011 by DragonNighthowler

[Fuzzbucket]

Absolutely no way anything should happen automatically. Especially not holidays, with the 2 per scroll limit - I want them to stay as they ARE on my scroll ! Others may want them ascended - but we MUST have the choice whether they do or don't.

 

And DNH - good point about the results of a breeding requirement ! I hadn't thought of that.

Edited March 15, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[annageckos]

I feel that when a dragon acends, it should do so by having a good BSA/breeding history:

 

Bsa dragons would ascend after 7 successful BSAs(yes, including all the BSAs that have no negative effects)

 

Non-BSA dragons would ascend after 7 breedings that produced and egg of their breed

 

Non-breedables would ascend after they have been on the scroll for a month

Please no. I do not like this one at all. First I want to choose which dragons I want to ascend, not have it done automatically. I also do not use all BSAs, like EQ, I have never used it. Also, what if I use a certain dragon's BSA, but I don't want that dragon to ascend? What? Would I have to stop using that one? As for breeding, I don't breed all my dragons, or even most. In fact I breed very few. Some I do not think should be bred, others I don't need/want more of that type of dragon, or want unrelated dragons. I think this would encourage more breeding and dropping, clogging the AP with unwanted eggs. I am still in favor of having it time based and in addition to that having some type of item, like was discussed earlier.

[Kakaru_of_DOOM]

I think it might help balance if there where multiple ways to ascend a dragon, but only one could be active at a time. To prevent people from cheating by flipping back and forth, after a swap there would be a one-day period where it would not let you use any method to ascend. Regardless, one option should be 'no ascending' for the people who do not want to deal with the feature.

Here are the options I've thought up:

- no ascension

- Search for ascension-item (with baubles)

- all dragons

- some dragons

- individually activated

- Search for ascension-item (no baubles)

- all dragons

- some dragons

- individually activated

- time-based random ascension

- all dragons

- select dragons

- time-based random ascension with bauble-finding

- all dragons

- select dragons

 

What about ascending frozen dragons? I did not see the idea mentioned. Would they stay young, grow up, or be unable to ascend? Would they have different chance rates?

[~!~]

What about ascending frozen dragons? I did not see the idea mentioned. Would they stay young, grow up, or be unable to ascend? Would they have different chance rates?

I may be the only one who likes the idea of using an ascension potion to advance a frozen hatchling to adulthood. However, I don't think the option should show up naturally (as it would for adults). Also, perhaps such "frozen adults" would be sterile?

[DragonNighthowler]

Hum... I don't really see it, frankly. I mean, I wouldn't mind if it was done (as I don't have frozen hatchies, except my baby yule which was just THAT cute!), but I don't see why it should be allowed. I mean, when you freeze a hatchie it's to prevent it from growing up, so why would it suddenly be allowed to let them grow?

 

I'm not making sense... ugh, headache!

[Shanthaia]

I may be the only one who likes the idea of using an ascension potion to advance a frozen hatchling to adulthood. However, I don't think the option should show up naturally (as it would for adults). Also, perhaps such "frozen adults" would be sterile?

I think in the BSA suggestion thread (when there was only one at that time) - "unfreezing" was suggested and shot down by TJ as something that will never happen

[Rally Vincent]

I am against an ascension potion, and be it only due to the different results in searching because of the random results. If I look at GoN summoning; there are people who failed for a whole year. I summoned a GoN with my first try. When it comes to finding usuable items, some people always will have the short end of the stick and will be frustrated when 200-dragon scrolls find five potions, while a 400-dragon scroll may go empty-handed.

 

The only reason in favor of an ascension potion I can think of is that it will allow newer players to have ascended dragons without having to play a year (or whatever the age-based ascension time is).

 

But even then: if potions were to be introduced, you better tie the potions into the ascension limit. By that, the potions will only give one advantage (not having to wait the age-ascension-time), not two (insta-ascension and bypassing the limit). Otherwise ascension limits may not be worth the paper it is written on code it is coded in.

 

And finally - no trading of ascension potions, please.

[~!~]

I think in the BSA suggestion thread (when there was only one at that time) - "unfreezing" was suggested and shot down by TJ as something that will never happen

Well, if the adults were sterile and couldn't use BSAs, it wouldn't be as gamebreaking as plain unfreezing.

 

Of course, I'd actually prefer an ascended hatchling form only accessible to frozen hatchlings, but as a user I'm not allowed to suggest things that would create work for other people that I wouldn't be allowed to share.

[olympe]

I don't think an ascended version of a hatchling would make sense. Because, quite frankly, they are hatchlings. Before they can turn into a venerable (or upgraded) something, they should reach maturity (=adult stage) first IMHO.

 

(I might be biased, though, as I don't freeze.)

[Fuzzbucket]

If anyone is going to ascend it should be my most deserving first ever frozen hatchie.

 

She was frozen over a year ago:

 

Lily Marlene is a martyr. When almost grown, she volunteered to be abandoned when the cave was offered a magma egg at a time when there were four hatchlings growing up. As she already had a name, this was not possible, so she insisted on being frozen for the good of the cave. She is much loved by all the family, and the others visit her daily to pay homage to her self-sacrifice.

[KageSora]

Mmmm, I agree that hatchlings shouldn't ascend. I mean, as olympe said, it would just make sense that they'd need to reach adulthood first, and getting them to be adults then ascended would possibly qualify as "unfreezing".