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Kirbyburn

Ascension

How should lineages work?  

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I agree with Sif. It's a good post that lines out things that I agree with entirely.

 

- 3 months

- high-fail frequent tries OR infrequent tries with high success. NOT high-fail infrequent tries

- ascension released when it is with what it has; not trying to wait until everything can. Don't keep a dragon from being released if it doesn't have an ascension ready.

- allow artists to control ascension sprites? Probably, but with preference for suggesting they allow it.

 

- as for that staggered release (as it's ready), have the original Ascension news thread wiped after the initial close and turn into a thread that's updates-only.

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I like the three months, five or six is a bit too long. Three months is a quarter of a year. Means a seasonal picked up and grown cannot ascend until the next season.

 

Also prefer instantaneous change. Breeding doesn't involve any waiting, summoning doesn't involve waiting, etc. Vamps bite an egg, we don't have to wait a day to see if the egg survived, or if one of our dragons ran off with it and dumped it in the AP. We know instantly, I don't see why we should include a delayed reaction with this.

 

I'm also of the opinion that ascended dragons should be able to breed/BSA/etc just like adults. You don't wait three months to retire a dragon into a wall fixture on your scroll. You opt to change their appearance, or opt not to change their appearance. There shouldn't be any drawbacks to the change.

 

Neutral on the failure rate, as that depends on the cool-down. Short cool-down, higher failure rate. Long cool-down, higher success rate. But neither like the GoN, as you are waiting three months to start with to ascend them.

 

And dragons should only be ascendable if/when artists have completed needed sprites. For those breeds that the artists do not want to ascend, or do not complete the sprites for, should not be ascendable, while not stopping those who do have completed sprites from getting the ascension option. Because there are some GORGEOUS sprites, and it'd be pretty unreasonable to expect every suggested dragon breed to have an ascended form ready too.

 

Not to mention that some artists are gone, taking the permission to create an ascended form for their breed with them.

Yes, but this is age. If are dragons dont just instantly go from an egg to hatchling or hatchling to adult, then why should adult to elder be an exception. For the dragons that have missing or retired artists, we should just have those not ascend rather then try and badger them about it. If the artist is still present, they should probably get around a 50% choice if it is ascending from there sprite.

 

My next conscern deals with what happens if an artist not accepting a proposed dragon from a different artist even if it is the best fitting dragon.

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Poll. o3o

 

My next conscern deals with what happens if an artist not accepting a proposed dragon from a different artist even if it is the best fitting dragon.

 

Why even have DR then? People make choices about which artist to go with and sometimes the artist doesn't want their sprite changed any further. We make compromises all the time with dragon requests and get awesome dragons out of it. The artist put the work into the dragon; it's their choice. ^^

Edited by SockPuppet Strangler

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Shiny new poll is shiny! *votes*

 

On the long/short cool down and/or high/low failure rate, I ask again, Why do we need any failure rate? It's not as if ascending will change anything about the sprite but its appearance. If the general consensus is that we shouldn't be able to just hit "Ascend" on any dragon that is old enough, then something like scroll limits (similar to the limits for freezing) makes sense, or a short cool down before you can ascend each dragon. And remember, people have already had to wait some months before that particular dragon is eligible to ascend. That's a built in penalty before we even get to cool downs and failure rates.

 

Remember, unless ascending also changes a dragon's breeding success for the better, or in some other way gives an ascended dragon an advantage over an un-ascended dragon, then it's just a matter of appearance and RP. It gives the dragon, and the player, no advantage. In other words, it makes no GAME difference if the dragon is ascended. So why limit it very much?

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I think it's fair to have no failure rate as long as there is a limit like the frozen hatchie limit. I do think that one and/or the other is necessary, because speaking as an old player I don't think it should be possible to ascend hundreds of dragons at once.

 

I think, however, that it keeps things a little interesting in terms of the roleplay explanation if there is a bit of a failure rate. I'd say no more than 25% failure, and I like the idea that someone had to have a 50% fail rate to start out and then have that increase by 5% for each fail, so that after ten tries it's 100% to keep it from being TOO frustrating if your luck is really bad. Even something like a 90% success rate would just throw in that little bit of chance and keep Ascension from being a total "oh, Dragon is six months old, lets click this button".

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Yes, but this is age. If are dragons dont just instantly go from an egg to hatchling or hatchling to adult, then why should adult to elder be an exception.

I still don't see why we should have to wait so long. A week wait would be much more reasonable--it's the wait we use for hatching and maturing, after all.

 

Why not when you choose to ascend, you have one week to obtain more OVs/UVs/Clicks, and if you get enough before then you ascend, and if you don't get enough you don't ascend? Only the dragon wouldn't die if you failed--you'd just not get to ascend. I mean, if it wasn't too hard to code or something, of course. To avoid the "Well, some people have dragons with like 30k views! It'll be guaranteed to get to ascend!" why not something like only stats gained during the week you have to ascend count? I mean, if the desire for a wait is because it's another life stage, why not treat it the same way we do now?

 

 

 

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Why not when you choose to ascend, you have one week to obtain more OVs/UVs/Clicks, and if you get enough before then you ascend, and if you don't get enough you don't ascend? Only the dragon wouldn't die if you failed--you'd just not get to ascend.

Ehhh... It's a good idea, but I'm personally not in huge favor of it. I think all it will really do is clog fansites. The whole point of Ascension is like a "wise old powerful elder" type thing. A week is not very long in dragon years. Ascension also gives new players incentive to stick around for some time, which this would totally take away.

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Ehhh... It's a good idea, but I'm personally not in huge favor of it. I think all it will really do is clog fansites. The whole point of Ascension is like a "wise old powerful elder" type thing. A week is not very long in dragon years. Ascension also gives new players incentive to stick around for some time, which this would totally take away.

Mmm, I more meant that idea because it'd be a real pain to do as the TC suggested and have to wait an entire month to find out if you failed or not, when we don't have to wait that long for anything else.

 

I didn't mean that this would replace the wait to age, though--you'd still have to wait however many months or whatever to be given the option to ascend.

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Why not when you choose to ascend, you have one week to obtain more OVs/UVs/Clicks, and if you get enough before then you ascend, and if you don't get enough you don't ascend? Only the dragon wouldn't die if you failed--you'd just not get to ascend.

I don't really like this. Adults don't count views/etc anyways, so why change that just for Ascend?

 

I don't understand the whole "waiting a week" thing... We don't wait a week when we click the freeze action, or breed action, or any other action. There is *no* action where we click it and then have to twiddle our thumbs for an entire week before it actually takes effect... I don't get why it's so important for Ascends to be different in that regard.

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I don't really like this. Adults don't count views/etc anyways, so why change that just for Ascend?

 

I don't understand the whole "waiting a week" thing... We don't wait a week when we click the freeze action, or breed action, or any other action. There is *no* action where we click it and then have to twiddle our thumbs for an entire week before it actually takes effect... I don't get why it's so important for Ascends to be different in that regard.

I agree, I don't like the idea of waiting myself--I just hate the TC's idea of waiting a month after choosing to ascend to find out if it worked or not.

 

 

I mean, suppose we had a failure chance, how annoying would it be to fail several times in a row? That's several months waiting to find out. And I'd assume that a dragon wouldn't be able to breed or use a BSA during that month time, because it's off doing whatever it needs to do to ascend.

 

 

 

I see it as, the wait you have between when it reaches adulthood and when you can try to ascend is the time it spent learning and growing so it's ready to attempt to ascend.

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@Kage

 

Woah woah woah, back up, when did it become decided that there would be a month gap between the action and it's completion? That would suck! I would rather not have the action at all! Lets back up a bit. That is a horrible idea, a wait time then a SECONDARY wait time? no just no, you wait long enough, let em ascend right away

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@Kage

 

Woah woah woah, back up, when did it become decided that there would be a month gap between the action and it's completion? That would suck! I would rather not have the action at all! Lets back up a bit. That is a horrible idea, a wait time then a SECONDARY wait time? no just no, you wait long enough, let em ascend right away

No, it wasn't decided--the TC proposed such an idea, though.

 

Lemme find the post to quote it...

 

Here we go:

 

...it mighht make more sense for it to be a delayed action with it is going to have a cooldown. 6 month requirment seems way too long.

 

Example:  A new 3 month old dragon has just gain the action to ascend.  Over a 1 month period after using your dragon will try and enlighten itself.  Exactly after a month has passed, it then either fails to complete is ascendtion or it succeeds.  Using this idea, the action itself becomes a cooldown at the sametime, and then you can add in all the other ratios and limits.

 

I agree that a month gap would be a horrible idea--I was just proposing a one-week delay thing as a less-bothersome alternative, but I'm completely against the idea of having a second delay myself. I just figure if we had one, a week would make more sense than a month, considering a week is what we use for the other stages of life, if ascension is viewed as another life-stage.

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Enlightenment strikes when it strikes - the preparation is made, the dragon is ready to ascend (or not, if we must have a failure rate, though that doesn't seem logically necessary to me) and why should it take more than the twinkling of an eye for Ascension to occur?

 

If it's assumed to take time, then I suppose we'd actually need forty-'leven sprites to show a gradual change, but... why have restrictions apparently for the sake of restrictions?

 

If we accept the concept of the Ascension of dragons, why would it not be instantly apparent?

 

It seems to me that something that dramatic could hardly be in doubt, and it seriously would interfere with game play if dragons were to be tied up at all, whether for a week or a month, especially if the dragons had a waiting list for progeny and therefor couldn't ever be Ascended.

 

Introducing a wait period after the wait period virtually guarantees frustration which will result in the action being commonly regarded in a similar light to the GoN - sucking the fun right out of it.

 

And most of us play DC to get away from stress and frustration - we get plenty of that in RL as it is.

 

With inflation, that's my 20 cents, for whatever that's worth...

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Rats!

 

I was trying to vote for a poll option nobody had voted for yet. Turns out "8 months" isn't so ridiculous after all.

 

I think the "ascend" ability should show up at 6 months, but have a very high fail rate until 8 months. Then maybe after a year, it could go down even more.

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Although I'd prefer a one-year wait, I voted for 6 months because I think it's a good enough compromise. *shrugs* Since the wait is pretty long already, I feel that a failure rate is not necessary at all. I'd much rather be able to ascend the dragons I want to ascend than to settle for any other dragon to replace it as an ascended. Plus, if we already have to implement any limits, let's not do it with a failure rate, but with scroll-limits. (I'd prefer no limits at all, though.)

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Enlightenment strikes when it strikes - the preparation is made, the dragon is ready to ascend (or not, if we must have a failure rate, though that doesn't seem logically necessary to me) and why should it take more than the twinkling of an eye for Ascension to occur?

 

If it's assumed to take time, then I suppose we'd actually need forty-'leven sprites to show a gradual change, but... why have restrictions apparently for the sake of restrictions?

 

If we accept the concept of the Ascension of dragons, why would it not be instantly apparent?

 

It seems to me that something that dramatic could hardly be in doubt, and it seriously would interfere with game play if dragons were to be tied up at all, whether for a week or a month, especially if the dragons had a waiting list for progeny and therefor couldn't ever be Ascended.

 

Introducing a wait period after the wait period virtually guarantees frustration which will result in the action being commonly regarded in a similar light to the GoN - sucking the fun right out of it.

 

And most of us play DC to get away from stress and frustration - we get plenty of that in RL as it is.

 

With inflation, that's my 20 cents, for whatever that's worth...

Well, I was just adding some more ideas. A month long wait does a seem a little to long, so im going with 2 weeks. Im also choosing that with this, there is no fail, cause doesnt make much sense at all. But, maybe it can be something like, "you can only send up to x dragons on there right of passage at this time, please wait till one comes back.

 

 

My final arguement on 6 months. I still don't think the majority of you are thinking of the time. One year is a big no, but six month means im gonna graduate and start college before I my dragons can even begin to ascend. Im pretty sure, new players might just quit out of boredom at this rate, for we already have enough excessively long cooldowns. This thread isnt even a month old. Six months ago takes us back to beat the heat release. And we dont even know if TJ will release thing in a year.

 

If it takes a dragon 8 days to age, then it should take it twice as long to ascend. Not 26 weeks...Thats around 20 ish generations?!?

 

School time, peaceout.

Edited by Kirbyburn

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Well, I was just adding some more ideas. A month long wait does a seem a little to long, so im going with 2 weeks. Im also choosing that with this, there is no fail, cause doesnt make much sense at all. But, maybe it can be something like, "you can only send up to x dragons on there right of passage at this time, please wait till one comes back.

 

 

My final arguement on 6 months. I still don't think the majority of you are thinking of the time. One year is a big no, but six month means im gonna graduate and start college before I my dragons can even begin to ascend. Im pretty sure, new players might just quit out of boredom at this rate, for we already have enough excessively long cooldowns. This thread isnt even a month old. Six months ago takes us back to beat the heat release. And we dont even know if TJ will release thing in a year.

 

If it takes a dragon 8 days to age, then it should take it twice as long to ascend. Not 26 weeks...Thats around 20 ish generations?!?

 

School time, peaceout.

And in six months I'll still be in college. It's honestly not as big a deal as you're making it out to be :/ If waiting for Ascension takes six months and you don't want to just wait, why not work on those college classes you'll be taking? There's more to life than just DC.

 

But look at it this way...

 

When you start off in the working world you're never the best in your field. You start at the bottom and work your way up. I'm going to draw from culinary, since that's my major, but you don't master a cuisine in a single month. It takes months, even years of training and practice to master a cuisine.

 

I am twenty right now. I have just started culinary school. It will likely be another ten or twenty years before I become established in my field (women are usually underrated in culinary, but that's a different can of worms).

 

While real life takes place on a grander scale than DC, Ascension should still be something you have to work for.

 

I also don't think it should have a fail rate, either. You've waited for the option to Ascend, and new players can be kept busy building their own scrolls while waiting, or some might take a long break from the game and come back in a few months time (it happened to me back when I was new), so why bother fiddling around with a cool down when you already have to wait for the action?

 

Six months is a reasonable compromise. It's not too long of a wait, when you really think about it. New players who join at the start of fall still have to wait over half a year to collect a summer dragon, after all.

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I think that the wait time should negate any reason for a fail rate. And I agree that 6 months old sounds good. And if new players are in the argument, I say they need to wait too. Ascension will be proof that the player has stayed interested in the sight long enough to ascend. So even scrolls with fewer dragons have could visual proof of being a bit older than "just joined". A trivial matter, but oh well. DC takes time, period. There is waiting. Waiting for eggs to hatch, waiting for hatchies to grow up, waiting a week to breed aain from that last failure, waiting two weeks for that dead egg to go away, waiting a month to bite again and increase your vamp army, et cetera. And -, but saying you'll graduate something in X time really doesn't hold much water. If it was right before summer vacation, you could say something like "Two weeks?! I'll be graduated by then! Why do I have to wait?" rolleyes.gif

 

Now, I'm not saying the wait time should be absurdly long, but it should be long enough to prove you were dedicated enough to wait. Not like you even have to do much. Someone could join, grab random dragon X and raise it, be gone for 6 months and come back for their ascended. Still proves that they cared enough to come back for it.

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I'm just going to say that I voted for a year time and was about to vote for more than a year. I don't see a year as being very long at all. I guess to the younger people it would seem a long time, but as you age things just don't seem to last as long. I can agree to it being 6 month wait tie though. Six months seems more reasonable to the collector (which is what DC is about anyway); they can ascend their dragon sprites and go back for more non ascended dragons and have them replaced in 6 months.

 

I also think Ascended dragons should be able to breed. But as for being able to breed something that can automatically ascend, that doesn't make sense. I've seen people speak of something like that in this thread. If the dragons have to age to achieve that status, then all dragons have to age to achieve that status. Being a child of an ascended dragon does not make it automatically ascend when it becomes an adult. I dunno, maybe I misread something around here...

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And in six months I'll still be in college. It's honestly not as big a deal as you're making it out to be :/ If waiting for Ascension takes six months and you don't want to just wait, why not work on those college classes you'll be taking? There's more to life than just DC.

 

But look at it this way...

 

When you start off in the working world you're never the best in your field. You start at the bottom and work your way up. I'm going to draw from culinary, since that's my major, but you don't master a cuisine in a single month. It takes months, even years of training and practice to master a cuisine.

 

I am twenty right now. I have just started culinary school. It will likely be another ten or twenty years before I become established in my field (women are usually underrated in culinary, but that's a different can of worms).

 

While real life takes place on a grander scale than DC, Ascension should still be something you have to work for.

 

I also don't think it should have a fail rate, either. You've waited for the option to Ascend, and new players can be kept busy building their own scrolls while waiting, or some might take a long break from the game and come back in a few months time (it happened to me back when I was new), so why bother fiddling around with a cool down when you already have to wait for the action?

 

Six months is a reasonable compromise. It's not too long of a wait, when you really think about it. New players who join at the start of fall still have to wait over half a year to collect a summer dragon, after all.

Yes, but this is waiting. Your not doing anything, an im not saying that it should be easy to get ascension, but im tired of delays on here. This is the reason why I am against this being just about age, because the only thing your doing is waiting. Seasonals can be easy to get depending on when you join, so that can't really be a valid point. What I see is your saying that "working for something equals = patience. But situation here is more like you work so you can wait then you can get what your earned/waited for. There are already so many things in DC that are based off waiting, why do we need to add more!?

 

Also, the cooldown isnt really a cooldown. I just added that so it feels like something much more real.

 

@Wookie

 

Because a year is obviously not a long time...

Edited by Kirbyburn

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Yes, but this is waiting. Your not doing anything, an im not saying that it should be easy to get ascension, but im tired of delays on here. This is the reason why I am against this being just about age, because the only thing your doing is waiting. Seasonals can be easy to get depending on when you join, so that can't really be a valid point. What I see is your saying that "working for something equals = patience. But situation here is more like you work so you can wait then you can get what your earned/waited for. There are already so many things in DC that are based off waiting, why do we need to add more!?

 

Also, the cooldown isnt really a cooldown. I just added that so it feels like something much more real.

 

@Wookie

 

Because a year is obviously not a long time...

Season Dragons are easy to get, you're right. They're common.

 

But if you join in summer and want a spring you have to wait. You have to wait, let's see, June, July, August, Spetember, October, November, December, January, February, and part of March. That's a little over nine months.

 

Nine months of waiting for a seasonal vs six months of waiting to ascend.

 

The thing it, you're not just waiting. You're doing other things while you wait. I can guarentee that when I post this you won't just be waiting for someone to reply. You'll probably have been doing something else. Life does not revolve around DC. DC is great because you can wait. I can get eggs, pop them in hatcheries, check back in a few days, and go do something else. People can breed while they wait, or they can collect new dragons, they can start lineages; my point is, you are never just strictly waiting.

 

Six months flies by when you're busy. Take this from people who have life experience.

 

Your point on working only to wait is a little bit moot. Popping dragons into hatcheries is hardly work. Raising dragons since the fan sites came around has been a piece of cake, and this is coming from someone who barely has time to eat during finals.

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The thing it, you're not just waiting. You're doing other things while you wait.

And this is why I would prefer a year. It's something to really look forward to and honestly, no one is going to be sitting in from of their screen waiting for the time their dragon can ascend. A year wait is not that long. I waited about 9 months for a movie I wanted to see to finally come out and I passed that time doing things, like work, school, and I dunno, going to the zoo on occasion. I actually forgot about the movie until I saw a "coming soon" poster somewhere.

Six months to me almost seems too short.

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The posts above me are stating the exact reasons why I feel 6 months is the absolute minimum. A new player can't possibly get a complete scroll in much less than a year. There's the seasonals you can only get during their season, there's holiday releases you can only get during their breeding period, and so forth. That is why I originally stated I would like a year, I thought ascension would be a nice thing for those who have already completed their goals.

 

But 6 months might be better because it could be a good thing to have to do while you are waiting for those few breeds you still want to acquire to come around again.

 

And, like others have pointed out, it's not like when it gets implemented, everybody has to wait 6 months before they can start ascending dragons. Most people will have a lot of 6-month-old or older dragons on their scroll at that moment, so will be able to start ascending right away. You just won't be able to ascend all of them, which is in my opinion the way it should be.

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Well, I think that some waiting - even for a longer period of time - is absolutely okay. I've waited a year to try to grab a pumpkin since I didn't get one when they were first released. Now, I'm waiting another year since I didn't manage to grab any last Halloween, either. Same for hollies. I waited over a year for a V-day 09, too, and I'm still waiting for a GoN. (Although, truth to be told, I'm not trying all that often because I don't believe in good luck.) If you consider that, 6 months isn't all that long, and even a year - with a guarantee of success afterwards - sounds okay to me. Also, a one-year-wait would make the potion idea much better because a year is time enough to get really impatient (if you're the type), and you can always try to circumvent the prerequisite by finding that elusive potion.

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I give up. smile.gif

 

How long should the cooldown be for fails.

Edited by Kirbyburn

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