Ascension

[~!~]

You have not yet said why an option should never be.  If your playstyle involves only being on for five minutes a day, the search option does nothing to change that if it is done in tandem with an option to sit on your hands for six months.  If someone else's playstyle involves sitting at the entrance for five hours straight refreshing for a gold (which, by the way, amounts to "Find the magic potion!" only with the CB gold in place of said potion) it doesn't do anything to change that either.

I think the concern is more in changing the nature of the game, rather than requiring certain things from certain players. For instance, DC will always have Dinos, which are a distinct party of the atmosphere of the site, and might influence the way it develops (for instance, Purple Dinos, Magikarp badge, other potential video game jokes in the future) whether or not certain players choose to get Dinos.

 

I have an idea... why not have an action that is "attempt to ascend" with a cooldown (maybe a month?), and a potion that erases the cooldown? (Actually, cooldown-erasing potions would be pretty awesome for all actions (including Search ) with varying find rates of course.)

 

EDIT: Darn emoticons...

Edited March 13, 2011 by ~!~

[Fuzzbucket]

Yup. I see no problem with that, personally. We have the main cave and the AP as two alternate ways of getting eggs.

 

Someone suggested it earlier and it made sense to me. Either hunt for stuff and potentially ascend your dragon withing days of it turning adult, or wait x amount of months.

OK - I can live with that. If I am at home sick as a parrot I can hunt; while I am living a life, I can wait ! Thanks.

[Obscure_Trash]

My eyes are tired, so I probably missed this being said, but if it was an option between age or potion how would you choose this? Both options just show up and you can try either? Or you have to select which option you want to try for ascension? =o

[RheaZen]

I think the concern is more in changing the nature of the game, rather than requiring certain things from certain players. For instance, DC will always have Dinos, which are a distinct party of the atmosphere of the site, and might influence the way it develops (for instance, Purple Dinos, Magikarp badge, other potential video game jokes in the future) whether or not certain players choose to get Dinos.

 

I have an idea... why not have an action that is "attempt to ascend" with a cooldown (maybe a month?), and a potion that erases the cooldown? (Actually, cooldown-erasing potions would be pretty awesome for all actions (including Search ) with varying find rates of course.)

 

EDIT: Darn emoticons...

Eeeeeh a little iffy on that. Would prefer for such items to be a minor part of gameplay, not a major part.

 

Sick as a parrot?

[skinst]

I never wanted to make DC into an RPG. I don't, like I already stated, when I want to RP, I either join my friends, or play Dragon Age, or Oblivon (yes, Oblivion is not so much an RPG, but I have an imagination vivid enough to imagine I am actually RPG'ing).

 

Well, the people who grew bored of collecting dragons, it's obvious this game was not for them. There is nothing wrong in that. I tried HOI3 because my hubby is much into it, and after 4 games, I told him; "Sorry, but this game is just not for me", and that was it. I didn't try to force him into playing Oblivion with me, because it's not his type of game either.

 

I don't see descriptions like a Petsite thing. For example, in Halo you shoot at things, and so do you in Bad Company 2, but they are, in no possible way, even similar. Just because something shares a trait with another, means they are the same.

Not to mention, I'm not going to start a raid against descriptions, nor do I mind them at all, and I quiet find enjoyable acting as critic for descriptions.

 

As for the whole Option thing. I ask again, is it REALLY an option? What will we do with that feature? Simply collect gold nuggets and see them sit in another Easter basket like inventory?

The moment you NEED this things for something else, be it ascension, or whatever else, it's no longer optional.

And to be honest, having an option to send your dragons into collecting debris, just to look at it, makes little sense to me, and is a pointless resource eater.

 

I hadn't voiced myself before against this option because I quiet honestly thought it had been shot down. I had heard of it, but I thought it got nowhere.

This may just be me, but you come across as a bit like you're grasping at straws here. Descriptions, just as Lyth pointed out, are in every petsite I know of.

 

Also, the Easter, Halloween and Christmas Tree events WERE all optional. You don't need badges to go further in this game. All three of these events were designed for FUN, to HAVE fun.

 

So let me ask you this: If both an item for ascension as well as a time based way to ascend were available simultaneously, would this still be an issue for you?

 

Is there a particular reason why you are so utterly against the Search feature other than carrying on about DC becoming a petsite, of which it already is?

[KageSora]

I'm in the "Why not have both?" camp, personally.

 

I dislike the idea of ascension being 100% potion-related, but I see no problem with a potion that gives a 100% success rate for the next ascension attempt/instantly ascends one dragon/removes a cooldown for ascension/whatever.

 

 

Why not something like this:

 

A dragon that is X months old automatically gains the action that will allow it to ascend. However, if you happen to have a potion you can ascend a dragon the moment it becomes an adult, even if it hasn't reached X months yet.

 

-or-

 

If there were, say X number of ascensions per scroll per Y weeks or something (like with freezing), a potion would give you back one ascend action.

 

-or-

 

If ascension had a chance of failure (not a huge chance, just a chance), a potion would guarantee the next ascension attempt would succeed. (Or, alternately, it would greatly increase the odds of success.)

 

-or-

 

If ascension had a chance to fail, a potion would either reduce or remove the cooldown time between ascension attempts.

 

 

 

That way people who want to have a potion option have one, and people who don't have the time to dedicate to trying to find a potion can ascend, too. Like Lythiaren said, it would be an option that way--while it gives you a benefit to use, it's by no means required nor does it make it almost impossible to not use.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: I can see where DN is going, though, I think. I get the feeling it's a fear of "Well, while this specific thing is optional, how long before we have more 'optional' things added in that really make the game highly in favor of those who participate over those who opt out?" It's like a game that gives donation-related items that are incredibly powerful--you can still technically play the game without said items, but it's so not fun or so near impossible that the game might as well be pay-to-play instead. Or games with so much extra content for "donators" that they might as well be called "pay-to-play with a free trial version". I'd hate to see DC turn into something like that down the line myself.

Edited March 13, 2011 by KageSora

[skinst]

I kind of see it like this:

 

For those who play GPX+, there are two new items that got released recently: Escape Rope and Evolutions Wonder. One item allows you to send a Pokemon to the Underground twice instead of once, and the other allows you to speed up time based evolutions.

 

Now, both of these items make playing the game easier and more awesome for those that have the items, however the effects of these items can still be found throughout the game. You can still get items from other POkemon, and you can still evolve time based pokemon. You just need to wait a little longer.

 

Now, compare that to this: You can wait for your Dragons to be able to ascend, or you can go and find the potion and speed up the process. Either way, you get the result you want.

 

So, for casual players who don't want to spend hours online, can just check the site again in, say, 3 months and ascend their dragons. While others who want to go nuts and find potions can also do that and ascend their dragons faster.

 

In the end, the result is the same.

[Fuzzbucket]

Eeeeeh a little iffy on that. Would prefer for such items to be a minor part of gameplay, not a major part.

 

Sick as a parrot?

Normal UK expression... Sorry

 

EDIT: I can see where DN is going, though, I think. I get the feeling it's a fear of "Well, while this specific thing is optional, how long before we have more 'optional' things added in that really make the game highly in favor of those who participate over those who opt out?" It's like a game that gives donation-related items that are incredibly powerful--you can still technically play the game without said items, but it's so not fun or so near impossible that the game might as well be pay-to-play instead. Or games with so much extra content for "donators" that they might as well be called "pay-to-play with a free trial version". I'd hate to see DC turn into something like that down the line myself.

^this^

[DragonNighthowler]

EDIT: I can see where DN is going, though, I think. I get the feeling it's a fear of "Well, while this specific thing is optional, how long before we have more 'optional' things added in that really make the game highly in favor of those who participate over those who opt out?" It's like a game that gives donation-related items that are incredibly powerful--you can still technically play the game without said items, but it's so not fun or so near impossible that the game might as well be pay-to-play instead. Or games with so much extra content for "donators" that they might as well be called "pay-to-play with a free trial version". I'd hate to see DC turn into something like that down the line myself.

 

This. Thanks!

[KageSora]

I think that if it's approached cautiously it could be a good option, like I said--but that worry that it will open the floodgates to suggestions that would make it basically "use this feature, or you don't get to enjoy the best of the game" or at the very least start DC down that path to becoming that way won't go away easily.

 

I'm wary of something like this myself, but change happens, and the best we can do is to try and offer our input to help guide that change in a way that is beneficial to the majority while not terribly detrimental to the opposing minority.

 

 

 

As long as it's carefully implemented to not become "use this feature or you miss out big time!" then I think it's okay. Just gotta be careful with future suggestions made if something like this were implemented.

 

 

 

On other matters... I like the idea of a boosted breeding rate, or perhaps a boosted chance to breed, personally. Definitely like that. Or, perhaps for BSA dragons the cooldown time could be reduced a bit? I kind of like that idea, too.

[HeatherMarie]

*peeks in meekly*

 

I'll answer/ask Lyth, even though the questions weren't directed at me. I can see your point, but I'm a little confused about what you mean by "option". If Ascending can only happen by hunting for little trinkets, then there is no option. Either we spend hours hunting for the trinkets, or we don't get to use Ascend. It affects our gameplay, because Ascend is something awesome that we won't get to have.

 

However, if the trinkets are *really* just an "option", that means that there would be a different option, a different way of Ascending dragons without the trinkets. If it's *really* an option in that way, then I have no problem with it.

[skinst]

So let me ask you this: If both an item for ascension as well as a time based way to ascend were available simultaneously, would this still be an issue for you?

Quoting myself, since this wasn't addressed.

[Lythiaren]

I kind of see it like this:

 

For those who play GPX+, there are two new items that got released recently: Escape Rope and Evolutions Wonder. One item allows you to send a Pokemon to the Underground twice instead of once, and the other allows you to speed up time based evolutions.

 

Now, both of these items make playing the game easier and more awesome for those that have the items, however the effects of these items can still be found throughout the game. You can still get items from other POkemon, and you can still evolve time based pokemon. You just need to wait a little longer.

 

Now, compare that to this: You can wait for your Dragons to be able to ascend, or you can go and find the potion and speed up the process. Either way, you get the result you want.

 

So, for casual players who don't want to spend hours online, can just check the site again in, say, 3 months and ascend their dragons. While others who want to go nuts and find potions can also do that and ascend their dragons faster.

 

In the end, the result is the same.

This is exactly what I've been trying to get at. The option would exist for those who are willing to work to speed up an otherwise long boring process. This is the same principle on which incubate works, and to a lesser extent earthquake; if you want to speed up the hatching process you can use them to give it a try. It's also the principle behind the practice of biting in an attempt to jettison an unwanted CB. Don't want to wait? Bite and hope it gets a premature boot. Freezing to unlock: don't want to wait til those hatchlings grow up so you can make a trade, freeze one and you have a slot. Those are merely small tradeoffs, a couple clicks to save a day or a few hours or something. For a wait that would comparatively be really long, the amount of work involved should increase as well. In the case of a low drop search item, you better be prepared to either wait out the timer or go on what averages out to be a really brutal grind.

 

If you want to argue that it's gamebreaking to have an instant-ascension item, I'd like to kindly redirect you to my previous arguments regarding low droprates and really big numbers. If someone wants to ascend faster, their price is rolling tons of dice all the time. How is this imbalanced? Furthermore, regarding the slippery slope argument, how the heck does it relate to something as frivolous as playing dressup? I'd like to see the chain of suggestions that would lead out that way.

 

 

EDIT@Marie: Uh. The option is the choice between spending months searching for a low droprate item for an instant ascension or waiting for a timer that takes even longer. How exactly is this not an option?

Edited March 14, 2011 by Lythiaren

[klinneah]

Marie19R, the way I hope Ascension will be implemented is this:

 

Your dragon is eligible for Ascension (whether this be through age, or something else). You go to your dragons page. You click 'Actions'. On the Actions page there is a button that says "Ascend: [flavor text]". You click the button and voila! Ascension.

 

The option that it appears that we are discussing is a Potion that will allow us to ascend a dragon, either immediately, or within some other time frame that is still shorter than waiting for the dragon to be eligible by itself.

[DragonNighthowler]

Quoting myself, since this wasn't addressed.

Yes, because of this;

 

EDIT: I can see where DN is going, though, I think. I get the feeling it's a fear of "Well, while this specific thing is optional, how long before we have more 'optional' things added in that really make the game highly in favor of those who participate over those who opt out?" It's like a game that gives donation-related items that are incredibly powerful--you can still technically play the game without said items, but it's so not fun or so near impossible that the game might as well be pay-to-play instead. Or games with so much extra content for "donators" that they might as well be called "pay-to-play with a free trial version". I'd hate to see DC turn into something like that down the line myself.

 

The point is, I do not like the idea of items.

[~!~]

The point is, I do not like the idea of items.

So, as I gather, the bottom line is that you don't want to play a game that has items in it, even if the use of those items is not necessary to complete any other goals of the game?

[Kirbyburn]

Maybe we should just have one potion drop every month.

[skinst]

The point is, I do not like the idea of items.

Then what's the point of you posting if you're not open to ideas? It's like you're not even reading posts and steamrolling ahead with your own agenda.

[DragonNighthowler]

So, as I gather, the bottom line is that you don't want to play a game that has items in it, even if the use of those items is not necessary to complete any other goals of the game?

Not exactly that.

 

I think KageSora explained it very well. The point is, right now we introduce potions to make ascended dragons. It's a very inocent add on, it's not neccesary at all because you can choose whether to do it by potion, or to do it by waiting the 6 months.

 

How long until items DO become neccesary? How long until we suddenly have a Super Saiyan form and we do need the potion for it?

 

Or a magick lamp with a djini dragon in it?

 

Or maybe GoNs will become breedable only through a potion?

 

Or... so on.

 

It's a risk I'd rather not take, personally.

 

In another note, if by waiting 6 months we get the ascended option, why a potion? Why not a BSA? Just like we wait 4 days for the egg to hatch, but can reduce it to three in the case of Incubate.

 

Maybe it could be a BSA for ascended dragons. I'm willing to start from scratch (instead of having the option in all my old dragons), for equality's sake.

 

That's mainly the reason I'm not too fond of items. That, and because I just don't see the point in hoarding a bunch of old boots, gold nuggets, rings and other trash. In petsites, these things have a reason, however stupid some are. You can sell them for money you use for something else, give your monsters superpowers, food, clothing, and so on.

How long until DC goes that exact way? Why have a gold nugget if you can't use it? Only to look at it?

Why have an apple you can't use?

 

So those are mainly my thoughts on the topic. I'm not completely No-No in the idea, I just don't trust the thing will stop just there, giving us two possible options.

 

EDIT;

 

Skinst. I am not opposing to ideas. People have suggested longer cooldown, a fail rate, so on. I did not oppose to that, actually, I do think there should be a bit of a fail rate, however not as frustrating as Summon. Something closer to vampires. you get some kills, you get some tosses out, but in the end, and after hard work, you get your vampire army. Until I got my first female (my first vamp was a lucky catch, a male), I spent two kills and one toss out, three months.

Well, I was not unhappy with that. Sure, you get annoyed the first five minutes, but right now I have about 7 or 8 vamps (haven't counted them), and I don't have more because I'm not biting. From time to time I bite just to toss to the AP for others to grab.

 

Anyways, I am open to ideas. Just read back and see, because frankly, it seems like you who is not reading. Maybe my non english native thing is the problem at not making myself clear but, until the whole potion thing was brought up, I did not disagreed vehemently to any idea, and actually contributed with my very own.

 

However, others have usually better ideas than me, so maybe I'm not voicing myself so strongly in that aspect.

 

I have agreed it should be a click only thing, the six months sound great, or maybe a BSA (I think I suggested that somewhere in the thread).

 

So no, I'm not closing myself to every idea. I'm merely closing myself to the idea of items due to what I have already explained. Do I need to repeat myself endlessly?

Can we actually just go on with the real topic here?

Edited March 14, 2011 by DragonNighthowler

[skinst]

So then I suppose you didn't like the Easter, Halloween or Christmas events either, since those are also items you can't use.

 

I suppose you don't like Leetle Trees either, because they too have no use.

 

Case in point is that your arguement is rather invalid. It's chock full of wild assumptions that the minute a potion is introduced, suddenly a bunch more items with uses are going to come to pass.

 

Do you really think TJ is that silly?

 

You have absolutely no idea that that is going to come to pass anymore than any other new feature or event that has occured on DC.

[Kirbyburn]

Well looking at the poll, it looks like the general public here is in favor of just aging. Temporarly shifting the focus, can we figure out if the action is going to have a cooldown, and if so, how long should it be.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Kirbyburn

[~!~]

I would be all for leaving items out of the equation until Search/Hoarding is closer to finished. (Continuing resolution, what?)

[DragonNighthowler]

So then I suppose you didn't like the Easter, Halloween or Christmas events either, since those are also items you can't use.

 

I suppose you don't like Leetle Trees either, because they too have no use.

 

Case in point is that your arguement is rather invalid. It's chock full of wild assumptions that the minute a potion is introduced, suddenly a bunch more items with uses are going to come to pass.

 

Do you really think TJ is that silly?

 

You have absolutely no idea that that is going to come to pass anymore than any other new feature or event that has occured on DC.

So just because I disagree to the idea of items, only you a Lyth are vehemently deffending, my argument is rendered invalid? O_O

 

Ok...

 

Concerning your... comparison, nor did I agree to the egg hunt, nor did I disagree to it. I find it pointless, and I do have voiced myself against the endless badged for like every little event out there. Not because I mind them, but because in 4 years from now, we'll have a load of badges on top of our scrolls.

 

Concerning the Christmas event, I was not too happy about it either, but it was done already so why should I voice my discomfort and create drama? It would do no good at all, since it would not make the event gone, but it would instead cause unnecesary conmotion on the web.

Quiet frankly, I feel a little stupid now. Except against battling, and this item thing, I've never complained about DC, not even with the whole Snow Angel drama, which I actually tried to soothe by giving my support to the spriters and TJ himself. Nor have I dramaed with Lyth's frills, or Dove's "threat" to retire her sprites (which I quiet understood). But you're making me feel like I'm against items for the sake of conmotion.

 

What should I do? Agree with you for peace's sake? Should I simply become a tranquil lamb, and wait for things to happen, with no say in it?

 

It's true, I don't know what's going to happen from now on. Nor do I think TJ is silly. I think quiet the contrary, he's very smart and will do what the site needs. And over all, he's the owner, and you and I mere players with no real weight over the outcome of things, so our opinions will not exactly balance the situation one way or another.

But I do believe it is a risk to take into consideration. One I'd rather not take. That's my opinion. I think the site is fine without an inventory. It would be fine without badges either, of which I see no point. It would be fine all the same without easter egg hunt, candy hunt, and so on. But that's already done, and I should not start a battle against them, because that'd cause chaos and drama which is highly unnecesary right now. Specially as it does not bother me the least, easter eggs do nothing to affect my gameplay, nor do the halloween candies.

 

I just don't think easter eggs are comparable to a fully functional potion. I don't think it'll just stop there, giving us two options.

Edited March 14, 2011 by DragonNighthowler

[arlymaye]

So then I suppose you didn't like the Easter, Halloween or Christmas events either, since those are also items you can't use.

 

I suppose you don't like Leetle Trees either, because they too have no use.

 

Case in point is that your arguement is rather invalid. It's chock full of wild assumptions that the minute a potion is introduced, suddenly a bunch more items with uses are going to come to pass.

 

Do you really think TJ is that silly?

 

You have absolutely no idea that that is going to come to pass anymore than any other new feature or event that has occured on DC.

TBH, I don't think DragonNighthowler's *assumption* is invalid. First, the Easter egg hunt set the precedence for the Halloween Candy Hunt. And there are already talks about a different contest for Chrismas this year. So all in all, what takes place (changes) now do in fact set pace for what is to come.

 

Therefore, assuming that this potion search will also lead to other potion dependent function down the road is quite valid. Of course, we do not know how DC will evolve or how this game as we know it will change. But, to completely break apart someone else's argument as invalid isn't really the most constructive way to deal with the current situation.

 

Back on topic, if we are given a potion option along with the time option for ascension, then I see no harm in it. However, relying on potion alone, this, I am not fond of at all.

[skinst]

For the record, I meant the part about wild theories resulting from one usable item was invalid, which was the arguement I quoted. :|

 

So just because I disagree to the idea of items, only you a Lyth are vehemently deffending, my argument is rendered invalid? O_O

 

See above.

 

What should I do? Agree with you for peace's sake? Should I simply become a tranquil lamb, and wait for things to happen, with no say in it?

 

I think that you should voice your opinions, but back them up with something other than wild assumptions, that's all.

 

Also to the general populus: Had the Easter event been a giant flop, I guarentee that the following Halloween and Christmas events wouldn't have happened. Should the potion idea, if implemented, be a giant flop, or too unfair for users, or create too large of an advantage, what have you, I very much doubt items of its nature are going to re-appear.

 

Regardless, I still haven't really seen a concise reason as to why both a potion and a time based ascension can't co-exist.