Ascension

[Fuzzbucket]

I must say - I don't want it to be any more time consuming. Hadn't thought that through. I do have a life, even if I am aged and retired !!! The trick or treat was fine, but a bit of a pain to complete, as it was grandchild visiting season, for instance. If I hadn't had time to collect everything, though, it wouldn't have mattered to the game This would, in a way.

 

Then again - someone explain to me exactly what difference it would make to life if one HAD an ascended or two ? Would it mean playing differently, or are they just new shinies ? More powerful - well, OK - but what would they use it for (please don't mention batting in this context... If that ever became anything other than a totally separate sideline which did not affect the main game in any way, I would lose interest faster than I can catch a water walker...)

Edited March 13, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[DragonNighthowler]

Mainly Lineages and roleplaying. Many people RP with their dragons through the description function, giving them unique stories and personalities.

[Fuzzbucket]

Mainly Lineages and roleplaying. Many people RP with their dragons through the description function, giving them unique stories and personalities.

Thanks HEAPS. So I can quit even THINKING about it.

 

Except in terms of new shinies !

[~!~]

Has anybody said anything on the idea of leveled-up BSAs? I suggested that a while back but I think it got lost in the debate over mechanics.

[olympe]

I noticed that comment, but chose to not comment on it because I'm not sure it's a good idea. On the one hand, ascended dragon sprites are rewarding enough in my opinion. On the other hand, "better" BSAs or lower cooldown would make sense, especially if a prolonged breeding cooldown will be in effect (which is just a possibility).

 

Personally, I don't think it needs better BSAs, as better BSAs might cause some resentment in players who don't have ascendeds yet. At the same time, they'd be neat. I guess, when it comes right down to it, I'm inclined to say nay rather than yay, but I won't argue the point because it doesn't matter to me all that much.

[HeatherMarie]

I love the idea of Ascended dragons, and from what I remember back when the Ascended thread was public, I would *definitely* want to Ascend some of my dragons!

 

However, I love DragonCave for what it is. And what it is, is *not* a "find a magic potion!" type of game. That's just... that's just not DC. It simply doesn't feel right. DC is about dragons, collecting and breeding and grabbing and hunting for them... It's not about cutesy little trinkets that you spend hours and hours hunting for. That's simply not what this game is.

 

I've played those games before. Hunting for gold nuggets, silly little potions that might or might not affect your critters, and the inevitable worthless crap like trash and discarded clothes that you usually find while hunting for those good things. I hate it. I hate spending hours hunting for a silly little potion. I hate cutesy little "things" in general, when it comes to petsites. That's a big reason why I'm *here*, and not on those other sites.

 

I won't object (too much) if there was *also* a button or a different way to Ascend, for those of us who balk at the item-hunting. But if Ascending is item-only, I'd have to object very strongly.

[Kallistrate]

I fail to see how ascension would make a dragon unbreedable. [...] Ascension, therefore, is the process of reaching a new tier of power. Strength. Grandeur.

 

A stronger, more powerful dragon naturally makes a more attractive mate.  If anything, they should mate more.

I completely agree with this. I think the breeding cooldown should be shortened for Ascendeds, if it's changed at all.

 

 

Regarding time ascension, I'd like to see that it is possible for dragons to "attempt" it early on, but with some failure chance - but after a certain amount of time, the dragon should have a guarantee to ascend anyway. After all, some reptiles grow and develop quicker than others, largely depending on diet, temperature and I don't know what else.

I really like the idea of dragons being able to attempt ascension relatively quickly (maybe within 3-6 months?), but with a chance of failure that decreases over time, until it disappears entirely.

 

 

Can I bring up another pair of questionable species? Bright Pinks and Frills. Should they ascend? I mean, users like me would never be able to get them, and each ascended one of those means one less of the normal adult forever. I mean, I'm not complaining that I'd never get one, just bringing the issue to light.

I saw Lyth address the question of Ascended Frills, but not Bright Pinks. When the old thread was still public, there were Ascended Bright Pinks being worked on. I believe they had a different spriter, but one who was working with Dove's permission. I have no idea what's happened since that thread was hidden, however.

[Lythiaren]

olympe and DragnNightHowler, you've still failed to answer my question posed to the two of you.

 

Why the "If I hate it no one else should ever have it" mentality?

Edited March 13, 2011 by Lythiaren

[DragonNighthowler]

olympe and DragnNightHowler, you've still faied to answer my question posed to the two of you.

 

Why the "If I hate it no one else should ever have it" mentality?

No we didn't. We made it pretty clear.

 

Edit; Considering the poll, it's not like we're against the majority. Most people, in poll, and in forum, so far, seem to be against objects and search thing because that's crossing the border between a collecting site and a petsite. Will special items start being delivered as well in special days, like Christmas? So now we're not only hunting for eggs, but for that special potion as well?

 

If that's the cost to get ascended dragons, then quiet frankly, I'd rather let things stay as they are.

 

I will oppose to every kind of "improvement" that turns DC closer to a Petsite. I have done it in the past (with battling, and coins, and such), and I will keep doing it, because there is a reason why I play DC, and not a petsite, or a MMORPG.

 

The same as there are reasons I'd rather play Dragon Age or Oblivion, and I don't consider Halo creators should turn their star game into an RPG.

Edited March 13, 2011 by DragonNighthowler

[SlowHornpipe172]

I understand what you're saying, Lyth, but you're coming from a WoW/Neopets/what-have-you background and that puts you in a vocal but very small minority on DC. I think there are a lot of people here who don't want to spend time on DC clicking an action on every single one of their adults. I know I personally have never wanted anything more from my adults. I like breeding and naming and describing and maybe participating in lineages, but DC isn't meant to be a game like WoW that takes up a lot of time. It's okay if people only come on once or twice a week to play, and I think that's part of what makes DC so awesome.

 

What it comes down to is, how rare do we want ascended dragons to be? Lyth was saying that by the end of a year, everyone will probably have ascended one dragon. I think my perception of ascension was that it would be normal to have way more than one ascended dragon on a scroll - that it would be conceivable to have one of every type of ascended dragon there is, perhaps, after some time but not after several years. If ascension was so hard that one a year was realistically the average, that would irritate a lot of the sprite-collectors. And I think we have a lot more sprite-collects than we do pet-site-like-Neopets-fans around here.

 

We also have to consider, if we do this time-based, how we'd implement it now. I've been around here since January 2008. I have ten dragons that are three years old. Then I left on hiatus, and came back March 09 and haven't left since, so the rest of my dragons are anywhere from two years to a day old. People have been saying that six months should be the age for ascension. About 75% (rough guess) of my dragons are older than six months. Should there be another limit, like only one dragon a month can ascend, to prevent mass ascension by older players?

[Lythiaren]

No, DNH, you haven't answered my question. All you have done is state why you don't want it to be mandatory. The question I posed was specifically asking why you're opposed to having this option offered. Do I have to blow up the word "option" to size 24 font?

 

You posited that you absolutely do not want anything remotely stimulating added to the game and you've presented the "don't like it leave" handwaving that happens with all game suggestions that, god forbid, open up floodgates for further development. Like it or not, Dragon Cave is evolving into a more immersive and more involved game. Biomes are one such change, for example. BSAs and the scavenger hunt events are, too. Clever ways to stimulate the player and give them more things they can do and more things they can collect in a game that revolves around collecting things.

 

The mad scramble for new eggs is a testament to the players' "Gotta catch 'em all" mentality. We tire quickly when there's nothing to collect. What, then, is wrong with adding a new outlet to collect things? You don't want to invest even more time into the game because you have a life? So you're insulting everyone who has a little free time on their hands now, are you? What exactly is so wrong with giving other people something else to do while bored? Is it a profound sense of entitlement, that no one should have it simply because you don't have time to do it yourself? Shall I suggest the removal of NDs because I don't have the time or motivation to go and do science?

 

Let me tell you guys about how I play WoW. I play it when I can around work and school. I'm also in a raiding guild, which means I can spend three hours or more in a dungeon with 24 of my buddies watching us die to dragons while we go after shiny things we want. Oh wait, isn't this familiar? Isn't this how a lot of DC players operate? Refreshing for several hours on end while chatting it up with their friends? The difference isn't as huge as you may think.

[~!~]

Should there be another limit, like only one dragon a month can ascend, to prevent mass ascension by older players?

I wouldn't like that, if only because I have some dragons that I've already sort of ascended in my mind.

 

Slightly OT:

Why the "If I hate it no one else should ever have it" mentality?

You haven't been hanging around here enough lately, Lyth. Everybody has this mentality when taking a stand against a new feature. If I had a dollar for every idea that got shot down for being "unnecessary," I would have enough Pokemon cards to fill up a 4-inch three ring binder.

[Lythiaren]

You haven't been hanging around here enough lately, Lyth. Everybody has this mentality when taking a stand against a new feature. If I had a dollar for every idea that got shot down for being "unnecessary," I would have enough Pokemon cards to fill up a 4-inch three ring binder.

Oh, I've been lurking. I see these things happen and yet the "unnecessary" argument magically disappears when the OP goes "What if it was an option?"

[DragonNighthowler]

Then go play WoW while you're bored. I also get free time, and I also get bored, and I don't go around trying to change other sites. While I wait for my eggs to grow, I go play Oblivion, I go read a book, I write, I paint, etc, etc, etc. It's not like there is ONLY DC to spend your free time on.

 

Just because you get bored (because, quiet frankly, you're, so far, the only one complaining about getting bored of the game, which makes me wonder whether this is your type of game at all, and the reasons why you don't go play something more accordingly to your tastes instead), doesn't mean you should ruin the fun for others.

 

Which takes us to your question. Which I have responded, but can be asked directly at you. Why? Why should this be turned into a petsite simply because you find it boring?

This is what collecting is about. It's not a thrilling adventure like any RPG, or a shooter. It's calm, patient and tranquil.

 

In the end, it's all up to TJ. He won't loose, whether he turns this into a petsite, or not. There will always be people willing to play. And if he turns this into a petsite, all I can do in the end is leave, and hope I find another site such as this one, which do exist.

It's not something I want to see happen, but if it does, well... it's just a game. Not like the world will end.

 

Edit;

Let me tell you guys about how I play WoW. I play it when I can around work and school. I'm also in a raiding guild, which means I can spend three hours or more in a dungeon with 24 of my buddies watching us die to dragons while we go after shiny things we want. Oh wait, isn't this familiar? Isn't this how a lot of DC players operate? Refreshing for several hours on end while chatting it up with their friends? The difference isn't as huge as you may think.

 

Honestly. I doubt that. When I play DC, I play DC. When I go with my friends, we either go out on dinner, or play an RPG (tabletop, old school D&D, the real RPG experience), or just go for a walk, etc. I don't play DC while with my friends, considering I'm concentrated on the hunt, that's not pretty much possible.

Edited March 13, 2011 by DragonNighthowler

[~!~]

Oh, I've been lurking.  I see these things happen and yet the "unnecessary" argument magically disappears when the OP goes "What if it was an option?"

Fair enough. The only difference here is that everybody wants to be able to ascend their dragons, but don't want to have to use a potion to do it.

 

EDIT:

@DN: Ascension items will turn DC into a petsite? That's an awfully thin line, there. I think it would take a lot more to turn DC into a petsite than simply adding another layer of collectibles (items to hoard) that interact with the higher layer (like a potion that changes the sprite of dragons).

 

I'm also going to add my two cents on leveled-up breeding. I like it. I think it makes a lot more sense than making them unable to breed.

Edited March 13, 2011 by ~!~

[skinst]

I find it interesting that people keep referring to DC as not a pet site.

 

Uh. Yeah. It kinda is.

 

You click on eggs. You raise your creatures. You breed them. Just because it doesn't involve leveling up and such doesn't mean DC isn't a pet site. It's just a unique kind of pet site.

 

As for the boredom part - I think a lot of users get bored collecting dragons and not having much else to do. Because really, all we have to do aside from collecting the dragons as they come out is breeding them or making lineages.

 

So why is there a massive outcry against having other activities added to the site? :/ Hording is part of Dragon legend, too.

 

For Ascending, though, I'm still in favour of it being an age related thing rather than an item.

[DragonNighthowler]

Fair enough. The only difference here is that everybody wants to be able to ascend their dragons, but don't want to have to use a potion to do it.

The thing with the whole "optional" thing is that, it is either REALLY optional, or in the end, it'll influence gameplay.

 

For example, Earthquake. It's optional. I've never used it, never will. I won't risk killing my eggs.

 

Influence; it's optional. You can use it or not.

 

Incubate; I've used it from time to time, but it's entirely optional.

 

Search feature; Will that really be optional? I mean, do I really want a boot? Or a sapphire? What for? To keep them in my cute inventory?

In the end, it'll all be reduced to exactly that, you'll need potions, gems and whatever else to do something to your dragons, be it the same as with influence, or ascend dragons. What's next? Food and clothing?

[~!~]

I find it interesting that people keep referring to DC as not a pet site.

 

Uh. Yeah. It kinda is.

 

You click on eggs. You raise your creatures. You breed them. Just because it doesn't involve leveling up and such doesn't mean DC isn't a pet site. It's just a unique kind of pet site.E

Eh. DC is different enough from other petsites (such as UniCreatures, GPXPlus, etc.) that it deserves to be in a separate category. I'd call it a collectibles site before I'd call it a pet site. The focus is on collecting things, which is how UC and GPX started out, but while those two sites gradually evolved to have the focus on doing things, DC kept the focus on collecting. (Of course, this might have been out of necessity rather than choice; both UC and GPX have more resources than DC.)

[skinst]

Hence me saying 'kinda' and 'unique' when labeling it as such.

 

Regardless, I think using the pet site arguement is kinda moot when it comes to ascension, but that's just my opinion.

[RheaZen]

If Ascended dragons are going to have so many benefits, maybe the wait should be longer. And would it be retroactive, or everyone starts anew?

[Lythiaren]

Then go play WoW while you're bored. I also get free time, and I also get bored, and I don't go around trying to change other sites. While I wait for my eggs to grow, I go play Oblivion, I go read a book, I write, I paint, etc, etc, etc. It's not like there is ONLY DC to spend your free time on.

 

Just because you get bored (because, quiet frankly, you're, so far, the only one complaining about getting bored of the game, which makes me wonder whether this is your type of game at all, and the reasons why you don't go play something more accordingly to your tastes instead), doesn't mean you should ruin the fun for others.

 

Which takes us to your question. Which I have responded, but can be asked directly at you. Why? Why should this be turned into a petsite simply because you find it boring?

This is what collecting is about. It's not a thrilling adventure like any RPG, or a shooter. It's calm, patient and tranquil.

 

In the end, it's all up to TJ. He won't loose, whether he turns this into a petsite, or not. There will always be people willing to play. And if he turns this into a petsite, all I can do in the end is leave, and hope I find another site such as this one, which do exist.

It's not something I want to see happen, but if it does, well... it's just a game. Not like the world will end.

I would if I didn't have midterms. But hey, this is also why I'm the slowest spriter in existence. And I know I'm not the only person who's tired of this. I'm just the only one to say anything because this forum has a massive Borg mentality. Everyone else who's gotten tired of it has left or is afraid to get eaten by the masses. Not so with me.

 

When I tire of a game I do what I've already done with DC. I stop playing and I chill on the forum to see if there's anything left to support. Those two eggs I have on my scroll were picked up yesterday as a result of me seeing if I could still grab anything from the entrance and oh look, a cheese and a blue. I'll probably dump them later. But I digress. Search has been up and about for years now, and you're the first person to actually puff up with vehement refusal to ever have anything like it ever ever ever. How is an option ruining the fun for anyone?

 

You have not yet said why an option should never be. If your playstyle involves only being on for five minutes a day, the search option does nothing to change that if it is done in tandem with an option to sit on your hands for six months. If someone else's playstyle involves sitting at the entrance for five hours straight refreshing for a gold (which, by the way, amounts to "Find the magic potion!" only with the CB gold in place of said potion) it doesn't do anything to change that either.

 

I'm seeing that you keep comparing this option to making the site into a petsite, but I'm going to stand up here and argue that descriptions make this site into more of a petsite than search does. Because you know what petsite has pet descriptions? All the petsites. All of them. I'm the last person you'll ever see advocating feeding, and I've been an active opponent of a battle system for many years. Search, however, is what I see as just another means of collection. A loose tie-in with an ascension method is merely a mechanic I would like to see. In fact, if you want to go to the RP method, as I've seen you mention RPers, why would a person just want to raise dragons forever for? And why would there only be one way for a dragon to reach his or her full potential?

[SlowHornpipe172]

I am cool with having search AND age-related ascension. Options are good.

[DragonNighthowler]

I never wanted to make DC into an RPG. I don't, like I already stated, when I want to RP, I either join my friends, or play Dragon Age, or Oblivon (yes, Oblivion is not so much an RPG, but I have an imagination vivid enough to imagine I am actually RPG'ing).

 

Well, the people who grew bored of collecting dragons, it's obvious this game was not for them. There is nothing wrong in that. I tried HOI3 because my hubby is much into it, and after 4 games, I told him; "Sorry, but this game is just not for me", and that was it. I didn't try to force him into playing Oblivion with me, because it's not his type of game either.

 

I don't see descriptions like a Petsite thing. For example, in Halo you shoot at things, and so do you in Bad Company 2, but they are, in no possible way, even similar. Just because something shares a trait with another, means they are the same.

Not to mention, I'm not going to start a raid against descriptions, nor do I mind them at all, and I quiet find enjoyable acting as critic for descriptions.

 

As for the whole Option thing. I ask again, is it REALLY an option? What will we do with that feature? Simply collect gold nuggets and see them sit in another Easter basket like inventory?

The moment you NEED this things for something else, be it ascension, or whatever else, it's no longer optional.

And to be honest, having an option to send your dragons into collecting debris, just to look at it, makes little sense to me, and is a pointless resource eater.

 

I hadn't voiced myself before against this option because I quiet honestly thought it had been shot down. I had heard of it, but I thought it got nowhere.

[Fuzzbucket]

I am cool with having search AND age-related ascension. Options are good.

What - two alternative ways to achieve the same end ? (not arguing, just asking.)

[SlowHornpipe172]

What - two alternative ways to achieve the same end ? (not arguing, just asking.)

Yup. I see no problem with that, personally. We have the main cave and the AP as two alternate ways of getting eggs.

 

Someone suggested it earlier and it made sense to me. Either hunt for stuff and potentially ascend your dragon withing days of it turning adult, or wait x amount of months.