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Ascension

How should lineages work?  

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This, especially if the limit is flexible and based off your trophy - just like how egg and hatchling limits are going to be.

That's how I'd prefer if a limit was handled, and it would make sense, too.

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I don't see why that would be a problem--ascension wouldn't be limited to a select few people or anything.  It'd be basically the same thing as lineages--some people like the way it looks more than others and thus place a higher value on it.  If the only restriction was time (and possibly getting around that with a potion), then nobody is barred from getting some themselves for too long.

Because that forces pushes people to ascend almost all their dragons.

If there is no way to keep them rather rare, then if I decide I don't want a lot of ascended dragons because I think being 'ascended' is something that should be rare, I put myself at a serious disadvantage compared to people with scrolls full of ascended dragons.

 

So it influences the way I play the game, which isn't in keeping with the 'you play as you choose' credo of DC.

 

A limit like the freezing limit would work for me too, though.

Edited by Fengari

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No, that's the players, not the game itself. Can't do anything about how other people play.

 

Why don't we set breeding limits then? People who keep breeding their blacks/metallics/etc. screw up the ratios so there are less CBs. No, we don't do that.

 

Oh, you made an edit, nvm.

Edited by RheaZen

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A limit like freezing would work for me as well. I particularly like the idea of the number being tied to scroll trophies. It rewards the longtime players a bit, and gives new players something to look forward to. It makes sense to me.

 

olympe, I'm a big fan of the potions idea, but I'm also opposed to anything as frustrating as summoning. I like the idea that any dragon can ascend (time based) but there's a potion to either a) ascend an extra past scroll limits, B) give a greater chance of success or c) ascend a dragon before it would otherwise be able to by age. Any of those three options would be loverly in my book.

Edited by Fiona BlueFire

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Because that forces pushes people to ascend almost all their dragons.

If there is no way to keep them rather rare, then if I decide I don't want a lot of ascended dragons because I think being 'ascended' is something that should be rare, I put myself at a serious disadvantage compared to people with scrolls full of ascended dragons.

 

So it influences the way I play the game, which isn't in keeping with the 'you play as you choose' credo of DC.

Well, then you could say that we should do away with lineages because they push people to breed selectively if they want to be able to trade anything. I could say that lineages have forced me to change how I play, because if I want to trade for eggs I need/want, I can't just breed my long, messy, inbred dragons since I will never get an offer for them that's as good as if I have a short, clean, and/or pretty lineage egg. By not selectively breeding, I'm at a serious disadvantage when it comes to the trade value people will place on my eggs compared to people who do put a lot of care into their breeding.

 

 

As Rhea said, that's a value the players cause, not something the game itself does.

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Completely agree with Kage on that point. I've always been firmly on the side of "nothing that interfers with the way I play, please". But Ascending would be no different then lineages in that point.

 

I could say that the very existance of rares "influences the way I play", because many people prefer to trade only for rares. But that's not how the game was set up, that's how users make it. Same thing with low-generation preferences. It doesn't mean that I can never trade anything again, simply that some people will have preferances I can't abide by.

 

Ascending won't mean that no one will ever want a non-ascended lineage. It will be a preference, just like anything else.

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Gotta admit, I haven't read the whole thread, but I felt I needed to weigh in on some things.

 

Potions vs. Aging

 

Aging, please, potions, to make any sense would at least have to be as rare as splits, and the would be in much higher demand. It would be hell getting one, and would require an inventory system. A lot of coding for a bad system. Me no want. Aging keeps the whole process streamlined, if I had to recommend a time, it would be between 3-9 months. Then an action would appear (to keep the entire thing optional) I would give it the same success rate as Bite with the same cool-down, makes it a bit special to get one but keeps the success rate reasonable.

 

Breeding

 

They should be able to breed, this isn't about getting old, it's about attempting a rite of passage. There is no reason for the dragons to suddenly be impotent. Though, with an ascended state, I could understand the dragon reusing to breed with a dragon that is not ascended. That would be a reasonable (in context) way to set a breeding restriction like that.

 

Selective Ascension:

 

Anything with a two per scroll limit (which really shouldn't include the GoN's but that's a discussion for another thread) should be excluded, as well as the jokes of DC, but that's really it.

 

Artist Permissions:

 

I know that many dragons are the brain-baby's of the artist, but what about the others? I mean if the concept is not the artists why do we need permission to make an entirely new sprite? If anything wouldn't it fall under fan-art and the like? Not meaning to start another argument on the subject but a bit confused.

 

Bleh, there's my two cents,

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Selective Ascension:

 

Anything with a two per scroll limit (which really shouldn't include the GoN's but that's a discussion for another thread) should be excluded, as well as the jokes of DC, but that's really it.

Rares?

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Why not? what logical reason would there be for golds not to ascend? (In context, not just to stop hoarding)

 

EDIT: Now that I think about it, considering Cheese's and Paper's are not living, I don't think they could attempt the rite of passage (whatever it is) so they should probably be excluded as well. rolleyes.gif

Edited by Sceptile100

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I know that many dragons are the brain-baby's of the artist, but what about the others? I mean if the concept is not the artists why do we need permission to make an entirely new sprite? If anything wouldn't it fall under fan-art and the like? Not meaning to start another argument on the subject but a bit confused.

Yeah, I'd say dragons like the Water dragons and such shouldn't require artist permission, because we wouldn't be using the sprite at all, which is the only part of the dragon that the artist owns.

 

However, I'm happy to leave anything that concerns the spriters in the spriter forum.

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Potions vs. Aging

 

Aging, please, potions, to make any sense would at least have to be as rare as splits, and the would be in much higher demand. It would be hell getting one, and would require an inventory system. A lot of coding for a bad system. Me no want. Aging keeps the whole process streamlined, if I had to recommend a time, it would be between 3-9 months. Then an action would appear (to keep the entire thing optional) I would give it the same success rate as Bite with the same cool-down, makes it a bit special to get one but keeps the success rate reasonable.

I believe the potion idea would be to go along with the Search option, which if implemented would allow a dragon to search for things for you to collect--the potions would be among those things, not dropping in the cave. Another idea was that they drop in the same way as the Easter egg hunt, or the Trick-or-Treat event--show up randomly on pages, and that way you're not competing with everybody else for 'em.

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If it was done that way I guess it would be fair, would still require an inventory system, and/or the search feature to be implemented. Would also make the process much longer and more tedious. Might just be simpler leaving it, or combining it with time

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If it was done that way I guess it would be fair, would still require an inventory system, and/or the search feature to be implemented. Would also make the process much longer and more tedious. Might just be simpler leaving it, or combining it with time

Yeah, the general preference, from what I can tell, is that if potions are used, it would be along side timing--either as an alternative, or as a way to get around a limit/lower a cooldown, but I don't think most people were in favor of potion-only ascension.

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Artist Permissions:

 

I know that many dragons are the brain-baby's of the artist, but what about the others? I mean if the concept is not the artists why do we need permission to make an entirely new sprite? If anything wouldn't it fall under fan-art and the like? Not meaning to start another argument on the subject but a bit confused.

However, the ascended sprite will be based off the adult sprite, making it a derivative from the original. Therefore, just like fanart, permission should be received. ^^

I would think if this gets implemented people will start stating in threads whether or not they want an ascended form, and an artist who won't want to work on that or let others work on that, will probably stay away from the thread. :3

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I have conflicting thoughts about the artist license.

 

As an artist myself, I can understand Sock's point.

 

However, considering a moderate ammount of DC artist have "retired" (as far as I know, which isn't much), I think that's an issue. There is little that can be done with the concept without the artists' permission, which means some things can't be done.

 

I frankly don't know what to believe. In some part, I think that since it's a new sprite, we shouldn't need the license to work on them. But for the other part, I completely understand artists' feelings, and can't go again their wishes, and their rights of ownership over their hard work.

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However, a majority of those "retired" artists can still be contacted.

 

Just because they have left DC does not mean they have left the internet forever.

 

Also, it's important to understand how the dragon would ascend. As in, what traits would the dragon gain through the ascention process. The original conceptor/artist are the people who know that best.

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However, a majority of those "retired" artists can still be contacted.

 

Just because they have left DC does not mean they have left the internet forever.

 

Also, it's important to understand how the dragon would ascend. As in, what traits would the dragon gain through the ascention process. The original conceptor/artist are the people who know that best.

I must say, that seems only fair....

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Limits on ascending: maybe we can have only several of each dragon breed on ascend on your scroll?

 

And again, should regulars rares(silver,gold) ascend or not?

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Limits on ascending: maybe we can have only several of each dragon breed on ascend on your scroll?

No thanks.

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No thanks.

What RheaZen, our SuperMember, said.

 

And why shouldn't metallics ascend ? Unless their spriters object.

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@ Socky

 

I understand but I can see that causing conflict, what if the conceptor wants an ascended version but the artist does not or can't be contacted? What happens then? In any case the sprite is based off of the original concept so really to get an ascended sprite you should only need a spriter and permission from the conceptor. Uggh brain hurts, we need a better guideline outlining spriter rights and conceptor rights, otherwise we are going to have conflict and trouble figuring stuff like this out

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In regards to what dragons should ascend, I think we should worry about that until after the how's and ifs are sorted.

 

For instance, we're not even sure TJ has approved this idea in the first place. :/

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Limits on ascending: maybe we can have only several of each dragon breed on ascend on your scroll?

 

And again, should regulars rares(silver,gold) ascend or not?

No way. Why should we limit it? It's not like some holidays where they're available for a fairly short time compared to the sheer number of people who want them, and they're not like the GoNs which are supposed to be mega epic super rare. If it's a rite of passage that any dragon can perform, why should only a certain number per scroll be permitted? It doesn't make sense.

 

 

And yes, metallics (and other rares, minus holidays naturally) should be allowed to have ascended forms--why would they not?

 

I also see what Sceptile100 is saying, and I think that it could cause conflict but it would be ideal to require permission from both the artist and the originator of the concept.

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Bleh, skinst is right, let's hammer out the detail first, worry about politics afterward.

 

Can we all agree on the following?

 

Based (at least partially) on time

Holidays, Jokes, and unbreedables exempt

Not Automatic

Unlimited per scroll

 

We need to discuss:

 

Exact methodology (Action, Potion use, etc.)

Success Rate (Action and Potion if applicable)

Cool-down (if any)

Eligibility (How long we have to wait, and if that applies with potions)

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My $0.02

 

Honestly I don't want to see an inventory system on DC.... I would prefer it just being time.

 

Maybe even on a dragon's 1st birthday?

 

It just seems like everybody is kinda over complicating it a bit is all... I mean why should we go and hunt down a Potion, use it, then (if success rates are applied and it ends up not working) and having the whole process again?, shouldn't this just be relatively simple, like the rest of DC?

 

Just after the dragon's first birthday, you are given the option (on the Actions Page, at the bottom) of Ascension. Its simple and people who have raised their dragons could be rewarded eventually for raising them in a way. It also gives you the choice if you would rather not want your dragons to Ascend.

Edited by athdaraxen

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