Abortion

[sparkle10184]

I remember a story on the news about a man being deemed "too fat" to adopt with his wife even though they had adopted successfully before.

Excuse me? I find that completely unacceptable! The standards for adopting these day are just too high... gotta be perfect... heterosexual, married, proper weight... *sigh*

[Kith]

Excuse me? I find that completely unacceptable! The standards for adopting these day are just too high... gotta be perfect... heterosexual, married, proper weight... *sigh*

Yeah... I had a coworker who was rejected due to her fibromyalgia, and the fact that she made more money than her husband.

[Obscure_Trash]

I remember a story on the news about a man being deemed "too fat" to adopt with his wife even though they had adopted successfully before.

Dunno if this is the same story, but yeppers: Should be language free http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/fat-dis...alth-risks/3328

 

~

 

I have two main problems with overseas adoption:

-It's most likely that those adopting will really have no idea of the child's culture of where they come from and so cannot help on the front of heritage or culture when the child wonders or wants to be a part of that.

-It's most likely going to be white parents adopting children of color. And chances are that those white parents simply aren't equipped in dealing with racism. They'll have no idea how to help or even empathize with what the child will go through.

 

There's a lot of "white saviorism" in overseas adoption and I am simply not here for that.

 

I agree that a lot needs to change about the US adoption system - besides a lot needing to change about the US in general. We should be encouraging adoption and upping our sex ed and family planning and contraception accessibility and affordability. Hopefully such a system overall would improve us greatly. People mostly only having kids when ready = less kids adopted. Changed system = kids being able to be adopted more easily = and hopefully going to good families.

[Cecona]

That isn't the story because that couple is from the UK and I saw the story on the local news. And the husband from the story I remember was larger than that man.

 

But it seems that it's rather common for obese people to be denied rights to adopt on the grounds that their weight could cause problems like sleep apnea and diabetes and thus cutting their life short and probably leaving the child in a situation less than acceptable to the adoption agency despite countless more children living in a literal hell because no one wants them.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Cecona

[Pokemonfan13]

Then I hope they deny adoption to smokers. With obesity of a "parent" the child can still be healthy. With smoking parent(s) the kid gets second hand smoke!

[Cecona]

The disturbing thing is they probably don't deny smokers

[edwardelricfreak]

Then I hope they deny adoption to smokers.  With obesity of a "parent" the child can still be healthy.  With smoking parent(s) the kid gets second hand smoke!

Some smokers go outside, though, and make sure to never have their child around the smoke (or at least try to). My mom did. I don't think it's fair to deny smokers JUST because they smoke. I feel like amount they smoke and where should be the focus, though that's hard to evaluate...

 

But obesity? That's a little ridiculous. I mean, in one way, okay I can see SOME sense, because they're thinking "oh well this person leads an unhealthy lifestyle and only eats junk food so they're going to pass that on to their child" but that's a little farfetched...

 

I agree that a lot needs to change about the US adoption system - besides a lot needing to change about the US in general. We should be encouraging adoption and upping our sex ed and family planning and contraception accessibility and affordability. Hopefully such a system overall would improve us greatly. People mostly only having kids when ready = less kids adopted. Changed system = kids being able to be adopted more easily = and hopefully going to good families.

UGH ALSO JUST ALL OF MY YES.

 

All of it.

 

Here, just take my yes.

Edited November 23, 2013 by edwardelricfreak

[Brite]

Then I hope they deny adoption to smokers. With obesity of a "parent" the child can still be healthy. With smoking parent(s) the kid gets second hand smoke!

I have several friends with overweight parents, and they're healthy as a horse. Their parents actually made them eat healthy. I've seen parents that over feed their children and are proud of it. Just look up "My baby weighs over 700 lbs" on youtube. There are mothers that stuff their kids and they're not taken from them. But fat couples aren't allowed to adopt?

[hazeh]

I can't figure out if I view this as a problem or not, but I've noticed that the adoption agencies that my parents have worked with will only match us to special needs children, despite other requests from our family. We've already adopted a special needs child who requires a significant amount of money, time, and attention, and of course the next child they match to us requires even more extensive care.

I dunno, maybe it's just my issue with it, but I feel like because my moms are nurses, they state/county feels like it's totally fine to just hand us kids with medical issues, even when they expressed they didn't really want to take on another special needs child.

 

[lightbird]

Then I hope they deny adoption to smokers. With obesity of a "parent" the child can still be healthy. With smoking parent(s) the kid gets second hand smoke!

Tell me about it. My father has been smoking since his teens and never in my life has he bothered even opening the window while smoking in the apartment*. Imagine that such a parent could adopt a child, uugh. :/

 

 

*this is kinda off-topic, but smoking is a dealbreaker for me when it comes to dating someone

 

@SHS It is true that special-needs children have low chances of getting adopted, hence why the state might think that your moms need another one. But being able to care for one child like that doesn't mean that they can/should carry double the mental/financial load, even if they *are* nurses. If I were in that situation, I'd find this match problematic as well.

[Fuzzbucket]

The disturbing thing is they probably don't deny smokers

Actually I have heard of cases where they did.

Edited November 26, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[TCA]

Then I hope they deny adoption to smokers. With obesity of a "parent" the child can still be healthy. With smoking parent(s) the kid gets second hand smoke!

My mom's overweight (not quite obese but certainly noticeably overweight) and smokes and she adopted two kids just fine, me and my brother :3

 

She's responsible about the smoking, though, always goes outside and encourages us not to go out in the backyard while she's doing so.

[Htt71]

Some discrimination is fine, jut not out loud, but but c'mon people that was ridiculous.

 

Also , don't go judging everyone by saying people require perfection, personally I don't care about perfection. I just care about being AN ABSOLUTE MORON. Like most celebrities today.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Htt71

[OnyxKitteh]

I most certainly believe in a abortion!!!

 

I know someone who was raped and got pregnent. She was only 14 and her parents didn't believe in abortion so she commited suicide. I miss her. She was one of my best friends. :'(

 

Well anyway, no matter what you should have the right to control what happens to your body. Some people say that it isn't your body, it's the baby's body, but the baby is sucking the life and energy out of the mom's body! Even after the baby is born, you have to spend your time and energy on the baby. She should have the right to stop that.

 

Also some people say it's God's will. So God made a 14 year old pregnent? No, I do not believe in that. Anyway children have to go to school. Imagine what a baby would do to their lives! Even if they give the child up for adoption they would spend months recovering from it.

 

Even though abortion isn't the solution to lowering the world's population, I'm sure it will help if we add a few other ways to prevent the spread of even more people. I just find that a population of over 7 billion is ridiculous.

[Brite]

 

Even though abortion isn't the solution to lowering the world's population

No, but it could certainly help lower the amount of children in the system. Slightly

[Cecona]

I most certainly believe in a abortion!!!

 

I know someone who was raped and got pregnent. She was only 14 and her parents didn't believe in abortion so she commited suicide. I miss her. She was one of my best friends. :'(

 

Well anyway, no matter what you should have the right to control what happens to your body. Some people say that it isn't your body, it's the baby's body, but the baby is sucking the life and energy out of the mom's body! Even after the baby is born, you have to spend your time and energy on the baby. She should have the right to stop that.

 

Also some people say it's God's will. So God made a 14 year old pregnent? No, I do not believe in that. Anyway children have to go to school. Imagine what a baby would do to their lives! Even if they give the child up for adoption they would spend months recovering from it.

 

Even though abortion isn't the solution to lowering the world's population, I'm sure it will help if we add a few other ways to prevent the spread of even more people. I just find that a population of over 7 billion is ridiculous.

If it was God's plan to have someone rape a 14 year old in order to get her pregnant, that is no god I would ever pray to or worship.

[KageSora]

Even though abortion isn't the solution to lowering the world's population, I'm sure it will help if we add a few other ways to prevent the spread of even more people. I just find that a population of over 7 billion is ridiculous.

I don't really see it as a means of population control, more of a means of ensuring the population we DO generate has a better chance at a decent life than being chucked into an uncaring system or whatever else happens to unwanted babies.

 

If it was God's plan to have someone rape a 14 year old in order to get her pregnant, that is no god I would ever pray to or worship.

Agreed.

[edwardelricfreak]

Before abortion is the only option, however, we REALLY should be encouraging the (proper) use of birth control and actually have DECENT sex ed, that way it doesn't have to get to abortion. And then people don't have to worry about any weird grey area with killing what is essentially a parasite...

 

But yes, abortion should ALWAYS be an available option. Sometimes birth control doesn't work 100% and the person does NOT want a child or go through labor (at least not yet).

 

If God wanted to have a bunch of angels, out of the purest people, he should just make a bunch of angels and keep them instead of making them suffer through life. He's omniscient so he KNOWS who's going to be good and who will be bad. Not trying to make this religious, but I'm just saying, I think some people may say "God just wanted another angel" but having a girl raped and commit suicide is NOT the way to go about getting another. :|

Edited November 28, 2013 by edwardelricfreak

[DigitalGarden]

Lol I've learned about reproduction + its consequences at biology classes when I was... 10 maybe? Had sex ed classes a few years later, separate for boys and girls of course to not embarrass each other d: 24 and still a virgin, woot.

 

No, but really. Only cases when I accept abortion are:

a. rape

b. a sickness that is going to lead the baby and/or mother to death

 

Simple. The end.

 

If God wanted to have a bunch of angels, out of the purest people, he should just make a bunch of angels and keep them instead of making them suffer through life. He's omniscient so he KNOWS who's going to be good and who will be bad. Not trying to make this religious, but I'm just saying, I think some people may say "God just wanted another angel" but having a girl raped and commit suicide is NOT the way to go about getting another. :|

Yes lol, some people miss the most important details. God wanted to create good things. He did. Then Devil trolled humans what led them to who we are now and all that "suffering through life". He (God) didn't want us to be criminals, rapists, whatever, but he gave us free will anyway. "Well y' know, you want to rape that girl, go ahead, just be aware it's against my laws and I'll punish you". I see God's laws/ten commandments as warning signs, or road signs, something like this. You may follow them or not, however be aware of consequences of doing so. He's kind of like a teacher too - he may help you a bit in your homework, to understand the subject, but he won't do everything for you. Thus I find saying "it's all God's plan" a silly excuse for our own mistakes.

 

Blah. I don't want to overthink it and start to type too much now since it's a very fragile topic, my post is a little (very?) offtopic and I feel nobody understands what am I saying so it stops here.

[KageSora]

Lol I've learned about reproduction + its consequences at biology classes when I was... 10 maybe? Had sex ed classes a few years later, separate for boys and girls of course to not embarrass each other d: 24 and still a virgin, woot.

 

No, but really. Only cases when I accept abortion are:

a. rape

b. a sickness that is going to lead the baby and/or mother to death

 

Simple. The end.

First of all, good for you! Too bad a lot of people basically get "IF U HAVE SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE, U GET AIDS AND GO TO HELL" as their "sex ed".

 

Second, yay for you being a virgin? Not that it matters since it's not inherently better or worse to be a virgin than to not be a virgin.

 

Third, what about a mother who will be mentally traumatized and unable to love the resulting child even if she gives birth? You'd rather the child be chucked into an uncaring system where it will statistically end up abused at least once or be raised by a mother who resents and doesn't love it?

 

(I'm not even gonna comment on the religious stuff. I personally feel it has no place in the argument for bodily autonomy, since you're then effectively saying that your religion justifies the view that it's acceptable to give dead bodies more rights than living women)

[DigitalGarden]

Third, what about a mother who will be mentally traumatized and unable to love the resulting child even if she gives birth?  You'd rather the child be chucked into an uncaring system where it will statistically end up abused at least once or be raised by a mother who resents and doesn't love it?

Hmm. I think it's a reason to support abortion too, since there is no really good way out of such situation... This reminds me of my friend's situation; her dog had unplanned puppies. She had three options: give the puppies away to good homes, to a kennel or put them all down. She chose the last solution, since there were nobody who could take care of the puppies, and kennels system here is truly terrible. I feel sorry for the baby dogs, but from the other hand it's better than seeing them underfed or abused or something.

 

(I shouldn't comment in the early morning without breakfast in the first place, lol. d: )

[Fuzzbucket]

Lol I've learned about reproduction + its consequences at biology classes when I was... 10 maybe? Had sex ed classes a few years later, separate for boys and girls of course to not embarrass each other d: 24 and still a virgin, woot.

 

No, but really. Only cases when I accept abortion are:

a. rape

b. a sickness that is going to lead the baby and/or mother to death

 

Simple. The end.

Thanks for that.

 

If I had not had the abortion I did, I would not have gone on to finish my education, get a job and be a useful member of society. I might even have killed myself because of the life I would have ended up with. Nor would I have had the two daughters I went on to have - now lovely adults and contributing to the world.

 

BC failed me. Thank goodness my doctor didn't (it was a very dangerous thing to arrange in the days that mine happened.) And you are lucky to have had good sex ed. Horrifyingly, in the UK and the US sex ed is getting WORSE rather than better.

 

And - well, I don't believe in god, but if I did, he would be a pleasant and forgiving type. I have no interest in one who would condemn women to the hell of an unwanted pregnancy - however it came about.

Edited November 28, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Infinis]

Lol I've learned about reproduction + its consequences at biology classes when I was... 10 maybe? Had sex ed classes a few years later, separate for boys and girls of course to not embarrass each other d: 24 and still a virgin, woot.

 

No, but really. Only cases when I accept abortion are:

a. rape

b. a sickness that is going to lead the baby and/or mother to death

 

Simple. The end.

 

It's not inherently better to be or not to be a virgin. Frankly I never understood the hype about virginity or lack thereof, and I still don't. I find the fact that it's still kind of obsessed over fairly strange, and honestly, rather creepy. What goes on in my business is MY business and no one else's.

 

It's never that simple. Abortion as a whole is an extremely complex and fragile issue that is really more tied in with women's rights and bodily autonomy than it is to the life of a fetus. Simply put, there are people out there who would have a corpse have more rights than a living woman, and that is so backwards and wrong.

 

You've also failed to consider, in your cases to accept abortion, medical problems. There are simply some defects not compatible with life or defects that would significantly reduce quality of life, or even defects that are invariably fatal even if the fetus makes it to birth. It is a cruel and unusual punishment to have women birth children that are going to die anyway, and it is equally cruel and unusual to force a fetus to be born into a world where it will suffer for a time and die anyway. There are a whole host of things that can go wrong between fertilization and birth medically, from fatal defects to failure to implant in the correct area, and all of these have to be considered.

 

I'm glad your sex ed was reasonable, but in so many places it's absolutely awful. Religion and its taboo on sex and sex-related things is still so entrenched in our society that parents AND schools drop the ball when it comes to teaching them. I had woefully poor sex ed that consisted mostly of "what STDs can you get from sex?" discussions. No talk of birth control, abortion, other options, what it's like to be a parent, nothing relevant. Only the negatives. (And yet so many still fail to see the irony: that some people have to have sex to have children.)

 

Hmm. I think it's a reason to support abortion too, since there is no really good way out of such situation... This reminds me of my friend's situation; her dog had unplanned puppies. She had three options: give the puppies away to good homes, to a kennel or put them all down. She chose the last solution, since there were nobody who could take care of the puppies, and kennels system here is truly terrible. I feel sorry for the baby dogs, but from the other hand it's better than seeing them underfed or abused or something.

 

Suddenly an almost exact parallel with humans: the adoption and foster system is really kind of horrible. Also, prohibitively expensive on both ends, and it's hard to adopt even for families that WANT to adopt. There are some things in the first post of this thread that are worth reading regarding this.

 

So think about this: how fair and nice is it to give up a baby for adoption and put it into a system where it is: likely to never be adopted out; likely to be abused in some manner in at least one foster home it goes through; likely to attempt to commit suicide; and likely to emerge from the system at any age with psychological problems?

 

Some things to think about.

[Obscure_Trash]

Hmm. I think it's a reason to support abortion too, since there is no really good way out of such situation... This reminds me of my friend's situation; her dog had unplanned puppies. She had three options: give the puppies away to good homes, to a kennel or put them all down. She chose the last solution, since there were nobody who could take care of the puppies, and kennels system here is truly terrible. I feel sorry for the baby dogs, but from the other hand it's better than seeing them underfed or abused or something.

 

(I shouldn't comment in the early morning without breakfast in the first place, lol. d: )

So, out of curiosity, then, what if:

 

-It's for financial reasons (the person/couple is not in a state where they can afford any option except abortion)

-The person isn't ready to begin a family (and likely knows they can't handle adoption)

-The person just doesn't want to be pregnant (they may not be as bad as some of us who would kill ourselves, but they know they don't want to be pregnant)

 

All kinds of things can happen. BC can fail, an abusive partner may mess with contraception, perhaps there are health reasons for which the couple is avoiding contraception, financial reasons have prevented getting good contraception, or their education isn't as good as yours was and they think they can't get pregnant (too old, too young, they had sex according to one of the dozens of myths on how you can't get pregnant if you do sex x way, etc.). Or even a mix of any of the above.

[HeatherMarie]

I honestly don't understand people who say abortion is acceptable "only in these instances". If you don't personally know the woman, you don't know their situation, and therefore your own personal opinion of what is "acceptable" should carry no weight whatsoever.

 

As others have stated, there are *tons* of reasons a woman might opt for an abortion, and many of those reasons simply aren't taken into account by those "only on these terms" people. Financial status almost *never* gets taken into account, and yet it's HUGELY expensive to carry a fetus to term (doctor's visits, and prenatal meds you need to take, and of course the actual hospital bills). Forget taking care of a child for 18 years, many people can't even afford to carry it for 9 months! I know I personally couldn't.

 

And to anyone who says "all those other reasons are preventable" ('cause that's said a lot in here), birth control can and does fail. Both parties can be completely responsible and things can still go wrong. A woman accidentally getting pregnant does NOT mean "it was either rape or they were irresponsible/lazy/etc".