Abortion

[brairtrainer]

Yall are silly.

 

And speaking of, prairiecrow, I was watching a youtube vid of a man speaking against abortion and breaking back the case of RoevWade, saying that he was "Remembering the lost little baby that was killed when Roe gained access to have an abortion"

 

Propaganda at it's best, much like The Silent Scream. The crowned abortion propaganda.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Roe actually had her baby because of the time it takes to file a court case and for it to get to the supreme court

[Obscure_Trash]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Roe actually had her baby because of the time it takes to file a court case and for it to get to the supreme court

AFAIK, she did end up having to have birth, yes.

[brairtrainer]

AFAIK, she did end up having to have birth, yes.

So he didn't even have his facts straight wow .

 

Biggest reason I asked was because there were a pro-life group of students who (when we debated in class) used the fact that Roe gave birth to the baby as a reason why abortions shouldn't be aloud (mostly by saying the decision Roe v. Wade should have been tossed from the schedule because she'd already given birth, not sure on the time line entirely).

[edwardelricfreak]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the thought of 'what is the definition of alive' yet.

It doesn't matter what the definition really is, does it? Parasites are alive, and the fetus is a parasite:

 

-an organism that lives in or on another organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the host's expense.

-An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

 

It may seem cold to call it that, but the fetus gains nutrients from the mother and grows and lives but does NOTHING for the mother in return. So whether it's alive or not is a moot point, because parasites are alive, too, but we have no problem with killing things like larvae, tapeworms, or fleas. While a fetus isn't nearly as threatening as those examples usually are, it is still technically a parasite. It also would not be able to survive on its own before the 7th or 8th month, I think, when premature birth can happen, and even then there can be complications.

 

But if we really want to talk about the definition of life, okay.

 

The technical definition:

-the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death

-the ability to grow, change, etc., that separates plants and animals from things like water or rocks

-The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

-the condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally.

 

Some people consider a fetus to be alive when the heart starts beating, but really even that is too late. Sperm and ova are types of cells, and cells are "the smallest unit of life that can replicate independently, and are often called the 'building blocks of life'." If cells are living creatures too (which they are) then pro-lifers should probably be focusing on menstruation, nocturnal emissions, and other such things where the cells are expelled and die.

 

Also I mean if we get really technical and think that pro-lifers should be an un-hypocritical as possible, they shouldn't eat or kill a living thing. This means that, no, they can't just be vegans, but they can't eat any plants either, as plants are also living things. It would be a very poor existence but basically you'd have to only eat things that were never alive or part of a living creature.

 

If that didn't define "alive/life" then I don't know what does...

[PapaWolf]

I used to be pro life when I was young and naïve. Now that I know about the agonising pain, the high chances of post natal depression (which can easily cause the mother to kill herself and/or the child she gave birth to) now have me firmly believing in Choice with a capital C. I also find it irritating that those who are pro life are the ones who whinge and complain about benefits being used to house, feed and clothe children of the unemployed. I hope I didn't upset anyone with my post, but if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

[Fuzzbucket]

It doesn't matter what the definition really is, does it? Parasites are alive, and the fetus is a parasite.

So is a tapeworm. I wonder if pro-lifers think it's OK to get rid of those....

[prairiecrow]

I used to be pro life when I was young and naïve. Now that I know about the agonising pain, the high chances of post natal depression (which can easily cause the mother to kill herself and/or the child she gave birth to) now have me firmly believing in Choice with a capital C. I also find it irritating that those who are pro life are the ones who whinge and complain about benefits being used to house, feed and clothe children of the unemployed. I hope I didn't upset anyone with my post, but if you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

Considering you put the warning at the VERY END OF YOUR POST, it's a little bit late...

[edwardelricfreak]

So is a tapeworm. I wonder if pro-lifers think it's OK to get rid of those....

I actually brought up tapeworms! c:

 

I'm sure they would say tapeworms are super harmful or something and fetuses aren't near as bad.

[Cecona]

I actually brought up tapeworms! c:

 

I'm sure they would say tapeworms are super harmful or something and fetuses aren't near as bad.

depending on the person a fetus could be considered way more harmful than a tapeworm.

[Brite]

depending on the person a fetus could be considered way more harmful than a tapeworm.

Tapeworms usually take a long time before they damage. (Though that doesn't mean I would have one in me, though I'd take a tapeworm in my body over a fetus)

 

I've told a probirther "What if the fetus is killing the woman and neither would be saved?" They ignored the question and pulled out the "She should've kept her legs closed" card.

[Shienvien]

I'm sure they would say tapeworms are super harmful or something and fetuses aren't near as bad.

Pregnancy has loads of common unhealthy side-effects, from morning sickness to swelling to nausea to hormonal imbalances to bones becoming more frail, to gestational diabetes to head- and backaches, never mind that a fetus will likewise drain nutrients and that giving birth can easily rupture things which definitely shouldn't... Considering that many people live with a tapeworm for a long time without even realizing it, suffering only some weight loss... For the sake of it, ingesting a tapeworm is an actual procedure done with the aim of losing weight in some places.

[edwardelricfreak]

I know how bad things can get during pregnancy and stuff about tapeworms. I'm talking about what a pro-lifer might say about the comparison, and I think they might say that a tapeworm is worse.

 

May not be true but that's what I think they might say. o3o Unless someone comes in and says otherwise. c:

[TCA]

I'd rather have a tapeworm than be pregnant :3

[KageSora]

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the thought of 'what is the definition of alive' yet.

We have, multiple times over the... However many pages this thread is long now, haha. It comes up every so often when people start the "IT'S MURDER BECAUSE IT'S ALIVE" argument.

 

It generally then comes up that "alive" doesn't mean "person". Like, it can be alive, but so are bacteria. The condition of being alive doesn't make one a person.

[Fuzzbucket]

We have, multiple times over the...  However many pages this thread is long now, haha.  It comes up every so often when people start the "IT'S MURDER BECAUSE IT'S ALIVE" argument.

 

It generally then comes up that "alive" doesn't mean "person".  Like, it can be alive, but so are bacteria.  The condition of being alive doesn't make one a person.

OK - so pro-lifers shouldn't take antibiotics. Think of those POOR little DARLING bacteria... Haemophilus influenzae, Staphylococcus aureus, Mycoplasma pneumoniae...

 

Have they not the right to life too ? AAAHHH....

 

Edited for spelink...

Edited December 2, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[lightbird]

OK - so pro-lifers shouldn't talk antibiotics. Think of those POOR little DARLING bacteria... Haemophilus influenzae, Staphylococcus aureus, Mycoplasma pneumoniae...

 

Have they not the right to life too ? AAAHHH....

I don't remember if that was earlier on this thread, or on another forum, but there was this description of a case where a fervent female pro-lifer was perfectly alright with having a pregnant cat spayed, even after hearing that it would kill the developing kittens.

 

/shudders at the hypocrisy

[whitebaron]

I wonder... Would anyone of you have the guts to tell a pregnant woman that she is just carrying around a parasite to her face, when she actually wanted it?

 

This thread once again reeks, as if babies are the biggest sin of them all and should at all costs be aborted. Where's the sensibility females are often attributed to? To me, it seems like its very cold and hard out in this thread, and I wonder how much is due to the anonymity of the internet.

[LascielsShadow]

I wonder... Would anyone of you have the guts to tell a pregnant woman that she is just carrying around a parasite to her face, when she actually wanted it?

 

This thread once again reeks, as if babies are the biggest sin of them all and should at all costs be aborted. Where's the sensibility females are often attributed to? To me, it seems like its very cold and hard out in this thread, and I wonder how much is due to the anonymity of the internet.

Uh, no, because that would be rude as hell. Unless, of course, she were the kind of woman who didn't have a problem with it. That doesn't mean that a fetus is not, technically speaking, a parasite. "Parasite" is not, in itself, a value judgement. And that question is not the gotcha you probably think it is.

 

Your bias is showing through here. What we are advocating for is that women continue to be allowed to make the decision that is best for them, whatever that may be. Plenty of women give birth, and that's awesome, provided that that was what they chose. Lots of women do, and it's great that they have the ability to access that option, again, provided that they choose to do so. Because being forced to have an abortion is as reprehensible as being forced to give birth. Both are violations of a person's right to determine what happens to/inside their own body.

 

Oh, and "the sensibility females are often attributed to"?That's a nonsense stereotype that doesn't really apply to actual human beings. Women are not special snowflake-unicorn hybrids with magical empathy or reasoning powers that make them all that different to men. I have no idea why you think women should somehow be more sympathetic/empathetic to a fetus than to actual living, born people.

Edited December 2, 2013 by LascielsShadow

[Fuzzbucket]

I wonder... Would anyone of you have the guts to tell a pregnant woman that she is just carrying around a parasite to her face, when she actually wanted it?

 

This thread once again reeks, as if babies are the biggest sin of them all and should at all costs be aborted. Where's the sensibility females are often attributed to? To me, it seems like its very cold and hard out in this thread, and I wonder how much is due to the anonymity of the internet.

No, because it would be rude. Personal comments ARE rude.

 

But if someone had said that to me when I was pregnant (and I mean the pregnancies that I wanted and carried to term) I would have been hugely amused. Not to mention the fact that when you are pregnant you DO at times feel that you have been taken over by a parasite; the exhaustion, the anaemia - the little beast did all that to you. Even in a much wanted pregnancy there are those days you wish it would GO AWAY. This is not something you will ever experience, and perhaps cannot understand.

 

Signed: The DEEPLY sensitive fuzz (and I am too and what it is so. Which is why I would never make such a remark. Or ask about the zits on someone's face, or "when's it due" to someone who - might just be FAT )

Edited December 2, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[ShinyTomato]

I wonder... Would anyone of you have the guts to tell a pregnant woman that she is just carrying around a parasite to her face, when she actually wanted it?

 

I've done it, I actually called my daughter the ickle parasite when I was pregnant with her. Did the same when we were expecting our son.

 

This thread once again reeks, as if babies are the biggest sin of them all and should at all costs be aborted.

 

No one has said that. The point is that women should have the option, and no one should be able to take it away from them.

 

I've had to listen to too many children say they should have been aborted, held children while they screamed that they're parents were too selfish and too afraid of hell to do it, I've had to go to too many funerals of children who just couldn't take it anymore not to support abortion.

 

I've also seen way too many women tricked into pregnancy, suffering with rape pregnancies, panicking because they never wanted this. I had to talk down a sixteen year old who was ready to physically cut it out because her parents told her if she had an abortion they'd throw her onto the street. I found my best friend dead because she was so staunchly pro-life she couldn't bring herself to abort but couldn't stand the feeling or the idea of the "thing" growing inside her.

 

I've had to take children away from homes where mothers have screamed at me that I should have taken them when they were born.

 

None of that takes away from having a child when you want it, whether it's planned or an accident. My loving my children, Nascha daydreaming about morning sickness (yes, that happened) does not take away from someone else's anguish and pain.

[sparkle10184]

I wonder... Would anyone of you have the guts to tell a pregnant woman that she is just carrying around a parasite to her face, when she actually wanted it?

 

This thread once again reeks, as if babies are the biggest sin of them all and should at all costs be aborted. Where's the sensibility females are often attributed to? To me, it seems like its very cold and hard out in this thread, and I wonder how much is due to the anonymity of the internet.

No, because that would be incredibly rude. Unless they're a total jerk no one is going to say that.

 

No one is saying that... We want the choice of abortion, not for it to be mandatory. Please don't twist people's words

[whitebaron]

Please don't twist people's words

I gave my perception. That's all, no twisting. This thread and the attitude seems very hostile towards babies at general.

 

Besides: please change your avatar. The Lighting from the laserpointer nearly triggered an attack with my work colleague.

 

 

@lasciel: I had to laugh, very hard, at that unicorn snowflake. my colleague as well, she's a trained killing machine and far from standard female, so i let her read that. ;-) But the issue is not sensitivity towards the fetus, but towards other people. Calling something a parasite, that may be loved... its just very rude, and in my opinion not only if you say it to someone in person.

 

also, children ensure the continuing of our race. without children, there'd be no humans within 60-80 years anymore. No parasites have that much of an influence.

[Syaoransbear]

I wonder... Would anyone of you have the guts to tell a pregnant woman that she is just carrying around a parasite to her face, when she actually wanted it?

 

This thread once again reeks, as if babies are the biggest sin of them all and should at all costs be aborted. Where's the sensibility females are often attributed to? To me, it seems like its very cold and hard out in this thread, and I wonder how much is due to the anonymity of the internet.

It's not a parasitic relationship if the mother wants it. If she wants it, she's benefiting from the fetus.

[Fuzzbucket]

I gave my perception. That's all, no twisting. This thread and the attitude seems very hostile towards babies at general.

 

Cobblers I love babies. So do a lot of people here - even those who wouldn't want to bear one.

 

This thread is (mostly) hostile towards people who want to take away a woman's right to choose. I loved my children. I had an abortion before I had them. The two are in NO way comparable.

 

But my daughters WERE parasites while I was pregnant. They fed off me. That is what a parasite is. The word has just come to have totally negative meaning is all.

 

also, children ensure the continuing of our race. without children, there'd be no humans within 60-80 years anymore. No parasites have that much of an influence.

Unborn babies ARE parasites. You prefer other terms, which is fine - but technically that is exactly what they are.

 

Besides: please change your avatar. The Lighting from the laserpointer nearly triggered an attack with my work colleague.

You shouldn't be on here if you are at work. Just saying.

 

[edwardelricfreak]

I gave my perception. That's all, no twisting. This thread and the attitude seems very hostile towards babies at general.

 

Besides: please change your avatar. The Lighting from the laserpointer nearly triggered an attack with my work colleague.

 

 

@lasciel: I had to laugh, very hard, at that unicorn snowflake. my colleague as well, she's a trained killing machine and far from standard female, so i let her read that. ;-) But the issue is not sensitivity towards the fetus, but towards other people. Calling something a parasite, that may be loved... its just very rude, and in my opinion not only if you say it to someone in person.

 

also, children ensure the continuing of our race. without children, there'd be no humans within 60-80 years anymore. No parasites have that much of an influence.

What? There is no hostility towards babies at all. I'm just calling fetuses what they technically are. I have no problem with babies.

 

I'm calling a fetus a parasite for the reason that pro-lifers are against killing a fetus but not other parasites. That is the argument I made. I NEVER said "Babies MUST die! They're just parasites! They should be aborted!" because I DON'T believe that. I believe the mother should be able to decide if she wants the child aborted or not.

 

They may have whatever avatar they want. You also have an option of turning off viewing avatars. Perhaps you could use that option while at work.

 

Again, you say "standard female", implying that most females are sensitive and thus stereotyping.

 

You know what else are parasites? Parasitic wasps. But I absolutely LOVE those! They're specific types of wasps that specialize in killing certain types of pest insects and they are awesome. But they're parasites, too. I'd say they have a LOT of influence.

 

I'm not calling anyone a parasite in a derogatory sense. I'm calling a fetus what it technically is, by the definition of parasite.

 

So yes, it does seem like you twisted our words around and implied a different meaning. Please try to read what we wrote, not what you think we wrote.

Edited December 2, 2013 by edwardelricfreak