Abortion

[Lila]

A right-wing talk show host also mentioned horrific side effects of the pill, namely, that taking it results in thousands of tiny dead fetuses littering a woman’s uterus.

Oh I'll keep that in mind thank you right wing talk show host

/sarcasm

[KageSora]

-snip-

So, basically, it's just restating what pro-forced-birth people refuse to listen to and what common sense should tell you is the way to go about reducing abortions.

[Lady Artemis]

So, basically, it's just restating what pro-forced-birth people refuse to listen to and what common sense should tell you is the way to go about reducing abortions.

Pretty much

[Dr. Paine]

A right-wing talk show host also mentioned horrific side effects of the pill, namely, that taking it results in thousands of tiny dead fetuses littering a woman’s uterus.

 

...

 

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard in my life. I mean... I can see that being a viable thought back when they thought sperm had tiny people on them.

 

But... now?

That is some grade-A trolling or incredible ignorance right there.

[siliconrose]

...

 

That is the funniest thing I have ever heard in my life. I mean... I can see that being a viable thought back when they thought sperm had tiny people on them.

 

But... now?

That is some grade-A trolling or incredible ignorance right there.

We've got a candidate for Poe's law, here.

 

Honestly, if every fertilized egg had a soul, that would be a pretty horror house cosmos we have.

[TikindiDragon]

Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great. If a sperm get's wasted, God gets quite irate.

 

Because we needed some Monty Python silliness in here.

[PittiSing]

My little bit.

 

Teenagers are not the only people who get pregnant and then have to make a terrible decision, but since it has come up, I'd like to explore one of the reasons teenagers might get pregnant when birth control is available in most cases, at least in the U.S. Most of the time, the contraception that is the most easily available are condoms. This is not something that most girls would feel comfortable picking up in a drug store. Not only would it be horribly embarrassing to have to take it through the check-out, but have you seen the number of choices? Can you imagine standing there trying to decide with people walking around?

 

So condoms must be the responsibility of the guy, but since he doesn't get pregnant and if he is a teenager, is not always made to take on the care of the baby once it is born, he really has no motivation to get them before the "first time." In this country (US) there seems to be some idea that using one is less macho. Girls are then pressured to let him get away with not using one, or else she doesn't love him.

 

Unwanted pregnancies (unrelated to rape) would probably go down if girls really understood how to stand against that kind of pressure. Learning to recognize manipulation and to resist it would serve girls well then and throughout their lives.

 

The other way to lower the rate would be terribly wrong but sometimes the whole injustice of only one person having to take on the results of a decision entered into by two just makes me think of terrible things. This is not a serious suggestions(though if you think it is ok to tell women what to do with their bodies, perhaps...), but here it is:

1) Take and record the DNA of every little boy when he is born.

2) When an unwed teen gives birth, determine the identity of the father.

3) Take half of that boy's wealth (half his earnings or half of whatever he gets to go to college, or half of his inheritance or even have the parents pay if the boy is a dependent because parents are legally responsible for the willful actions of their children, and I don't think the sex was accidental). The boy would have to take care of the child half of the time, go to the doctor with it, you get it, half of everything that the girl is usually just automatically held responsible for. No, they wouldn't be forced to get married because that could just lead to abuse, but until boys are held to the same responsibility as the girls, many boys won't even think once before having sex without protecting himself her pregnancy.

 

Yes, I know it would be impossible and wrong in so many ways, but it is a thought that runs through my head whenever the subject of abortion vs unwanted pregnancy comes up.

[Lila]

Speaking of teenagers -- I know guys who don't even use condoms. They just pull out. And their girlfriends don't think they can pregnant from it.

[TikindiDragon]

Speaking of teenagers -- I know guys who don't even use condoms. They just pull out. And their girlfriends don't think they can pregnant from it.

Ah, but, you see that's a Church-approved method of contraception.

[PittiSing]

Speaking of teenagers -- I know guys who don't even use condoms. They just pull out. And their girlfriends don't think they can pregnant from it.

Of course they don't. No risk for them if they don't and using one is an interruption and isn't as good, right?

 

And those boys rarely have to change their lives to the extent that the girls have to. One girl at our school got into trouble and the boy was from a Very Christian family. His parents did not expect him to take on more than a bit of the financial responsibility for the birth, but absolutely were against any suggestion that he should have any more responsibility that that because it would ruin his chances to go to a fancy college and would ruin his life. Why not? Why is she the only one who hast to give up her dreams?

 

I suspect if boys got pregnant and had to have their lives ruined, things would be different. But somehow in most of the discussions, even here, when having to have the baby is the "punishment" for messing around, it is only the girl who needs to be "punished." And unfortunately that is Biblical as well, for the Bible decrees that it is all the woman's fault. Women are seductresses, going all the way back to Eve. It was that way all the way up through the Middle Ages, it is still that way today in many places. If a girl gets into trouble, it is because she tempted the man. It is not his fault she got pregnant, she make him do it...

 

And unfortunately, some men actually believe their own propaganda. You can hear it in their reasoning when they try to come up for reasons to take away choice.

 

Fine, if you don't want your girl to be protected and if you don't want her to participate in Sex Ed in class, you jolly-well better sit her down and tell her the truth! If nothing else, explain to her that most of the boys want to get into her pants and that they will lie to get there. Teach her to grow a spine because if things get that far, keeping her knees together isn't going to be enough. If you are going to insist that your daughter bring to term any baby she might accidentally conceive, you need to live in the real world and teach her to absolutely insist that he wear protection and that if he tries to talk her out of it, he is only thinking of himself, no matter what pretty words are coming out of his mouth.

 

No, I don't hate guys. ^^

Edited July 23, 2013 by PittiSing

[St. Jimmy]

Not only would it be horribly embarrassing to have to take it through the check-out, but have you seen the number of choices? Can you imagine standing there trying to decide with people walking around?

If someone finds it embarassing to buy condoms, they're not mature enough to have sex, imo.

[catstaff]

If someone finds it embarassing to buy condoms, they're not mature enough to have sex, imo.

Not necessarily.

 

I'm 12 years married and old enough to be your mother, St. Jimmy, and I'm still uncomfortable on occasion when buying condoms.

 

Why? Because of the judgmental looks and sometimes even remarks from other shoppers and even store employees. I've heard everything from, "Hey, babe, if your plans don't work out, stop back here and I'll help you use those up!" to, "You're the third one in here tonight. I better not see you (prostitutes) hanging around here after dark or I'll call the cops."

 

Sure, the comments don't happen very often, but the looks of disapproval do. -shaming, pure and simple. And since it still bothers me some after over 25 years of sexual activity, I can only imagine how it could overwhelm a teenager with less self-confidence and more need for approval.

[Kestra15]

If someone finds it embarassing to buy condoms, they're not mature enough to have sex, imo.

This.

 

And please, in the same way you expect men to take dual responsibility then so should women. If anyone, male or female, feels they are ready for sex then they should take it upon themselves to ensure they have the appropriate contraception. If the guy thinks he's going to score, he should have condoms. If the girl is willing to sleep with someone, it's up to her to have condoms/pills/etc in place.

 

When my lover turned up last month she had a box of condoms in her bag, since we're active with each other, as she feels she has a responsibility to safeguard her future. Equally I feel that if I am to sleep with a woman I should have something there ready, so I too had a couple of boxes of condoms on hand. In the end she didn't have to open her box since I had mine closer to the beds

[catstaff]

And please, in the same way you expect men to take dual responsibility then so should women. If anyone, male or female, feels they are ready for sex then they should take it upon themselves to ensure they have the appropriate contraception. If the guy thinks he's going to score, he should have condoms. If the girl is willing to sleep with someone, it's up to her to have condoms/pills/etc in place.

 

Just for the record, in my post above, I wasn't saying a girl shouldn't take responsibility for contraception. Only that finding it embarrassing to buy condoms doesn't always translate into not enough maturity for sex.

 

When I was sixteen and considering having sex for the first time, I saved money from my after-school job and took myself to the local Planned Parenthood and got on the pill beforehand, specifically so I could avoid the embarrassment of buying condoms.

 

I see it as something of a privacy issue. Pills, IUDs, etc, are between you and your doctor. Even if your grandma sees you in the office, well, you might be there for a pap smear or because you have really bad menstrual cramps or something. But condoms are bought in public, and for the express purpose of having sex. A teen might worry that someone will see and tell her (or his) parents, or that the cashier will be a schoolmate and gossip about the purchase.

 

It comes down to the shaming, IMO, especially here in the US. If the shaming would stop, fewer people would be uncomfortable buying condoms.

[Kestra15]

Sorry Catstaff, I didn't make it clear that the bulk of my post was in response to PittiSing's comment that it is a male's responsibility - I was trying to highlight that it is a dual responsibility.

 

Frankly, if when it comes to jumping in the sack it turns out that one of the two hasn't put any thought into contraception then perhaps it would be best to call the whole thing off

[Fuzzbucket]

Not necessarily.

 

I'm 12 years married and old enough to be your mother, St. Jimmy, and I'm still uncomfortable on occasion when buying condoms.

 

Why? Because of the judgmental looks and sometimes even remarks from other shoppers and even store employees. I've heard everything from, "Hey, babe, if your plans don't work out, stop back here and I'll help you use those up!" to, "You're the third one in here tonight. I better not see you (prostitutes) hanging around here after dark or I'll call the cops."

 

Sure, the comments don't happen very often, but the looks of disapproval do. -shaming, pure and simple. And since it still bothers me some after over 25 years of sexual activity, I can only imagine how it could overwhelm a teenager with less self-confidence and more need for approval.

WELL - as a teenager with fluent German, when on holiday there at the age of 17, I had a sudden need.... My girl friend (also 17 and fluent) and I went into a drugstore and I realised I didn't know the word. When I said to the GUY that I wanted something made of rubber against babies, she fled. The GUY simply said "ah yes, for man or for woman ?"

 

I NEVER got this rude remarks thing. But heck, you can just put them in your cart at Walmart or even the grocery store... and they have slot machines in toilets.

 

But yes to the stuff about boys abrogating responsibility and pulling the "It's so much NICER for me without one." To which my answer (had I ever been unlucky enough to hit one of Those Guys) would have been "OK, but you realise I was recently tested for genital herpes..." .

 

OK - maybe just say thrush... Kinder... and you will probably still get the sex if you want it...

 

For the record, my own abortion followed (properly used) condom failure. Just saying...

Edited July 23, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[gnomestress]

Abortions for some, miniature american flags for others.

 

 

But really, I'm glad the choice is there. I've had to take the morning after pill from condom failure before. Things happen. Luckily for me the morning after pill worked/I wasn't fertile at the time and I didn't have to get an abortion. If it hadn't worked you can bet that I would have aborted the pregnancy. I have no desire for children and pregnancy changes the female body in many irrevocable ways.

[catstaff]

@Kestra15: I figured that was likely the case. But seeing your post right after mine did make me notice how much my original post there could have come across as an excuse for not taking responsibility for contraception in general. That's why I made the second post, to point out that I wasn't saying a girl shouldn't take responsibility, just that I could easily understand her wanting to go about being responsible in a way that didn't leave her open to possible harassment.

 

@Fuzzbucket: I'm glad you had a good experience in making your on-holiday purchase. For my own experiences, well, one of those comments I mentioned was actually made at a Walmart. As to coin-op vending machines in toilets... I literally only saw one in a ladies' room in any public place in the area where I grew up, and that was in the truck stop diner that had the reputation of being where the local "working girls" looked for business. During my teen years, even being seen eating a meal there with less than a group of four would start rumors as to why you were "really" there.

[Obscure_Trash]

I had a friend who took birth control (for health reasons actually) and never wanted to go pick up her prescription alone because the male pharmacist always made snarky comments and never wanted to give her the pills without a fight. He was a little better if a friend went with her. So yeah. Comments and such happen.

 

it's up to her to have condoms/pills/etc in place.

 

Thanks for not just saying pills. I've got a lot of friends who have really expensive bc and they're just lucky that they can cover the cost. Not everyone is so lucky.

[PittiSing]

Yes, comments and such happen, and on top of that there is a double standard. Do you think the comments boys get are sharky when they buy their condoms?

 

The first time is often unplanned for a girl. It sounds like there are many people here with lots of self-confidence who would be able to stand up for themselves and who would be able to say "no-way, sorry honey, we're not ready and neither one of us has protection and we both know that once you get started you won't want to stop, so it's just too dangerous, etc, etc, etc." I'm not thinking that it is these kind of young people who are make up the largest percent of those who find themselves or their girlfriends pregnant. Girls need to be taught that once most boys see that they've got a susceptible girl alone, most of the time he will say anything to get what he wants, and that if he can get away with not using protection, he won't use it.

 

It's all well and good to keep saying what others "should" do, but wanting to be wanted is a powerful influence in the over-riding of good sense.

 

And there are many girls who wouldn't even know that they can go to their doctor for the pill.

 

Let's say for argument's sake that it is true that any girl too embarrassed to buy condoms right out there in public is not mature enough to have sex..... and? When has not being mentally/emotionally mature enough to have sex stopped those who are clearly physically mature enough?

 

Lucky are those with mature, responsible, and understanding partners who have self-control.

[Fuzzbucket]

It's all well and good to keep saying what others "should" do, but wanting to be wanted is a powerful influence in the over-riding of good sense.

 

And there are many girls who wouldn't even know that they can go to their doctor for the pill.

And their doctor would in many cases tell their parents. Ewwww

[KageSora]

Unwanted pregnancies (unrelated to rape) would probably go down if girls really understood how to stand against that kind of pressure. Learning to recognize manipulation and to resist it would serve girls well then and throughout their lives.

Another thing that will help is to reduce the -shaming issues where girls are treated like crap if they have sex. To reduce the taboo-ness of buying condoms, etc.

 

Though condoms aren't JUST for men--there are female condoms, too, but that's nowhere near as common. :/

[Goslander]

Speaking of teenagers -- I know guys who don't even use condoms. They just pull out. And their girlfriends don't think they can pregnant from it.

Well, to be fair, it's got about the same failure rate as condoms. Does nothing against STIs, but it certainly doesn't deserve to be blown off as a legitimate form of birth control.

[prpldrgnfr]

Well, to be fair, it's got about the same failure rate as condoms. Does nothing against STIs, but it certainly doesn't deserve to be blown off as a legitimate form of birth control.

It really only works if the woman knows her body well enough to know when she's most likely to be fertile, and the man actually has the self control *to* pull out. Also, if the man has sex often, his pre-ejaculate will often have live swimmers in it, making pulling it out moot as the sperm were there before he was ever in.

[Lila]

It really only works if the woman knows her body well enough to know when she's most likely to be fertile, and the man actually has the self control *to* pull out. Also, if the man has sex often, his pre-ejaculate will often have live swimmers in it, making pulling it out moot as the sperm were there before he was ever in.

I've educated myself on all of this, but most girls my age don't.