Abortion

[Blear]

As someone who's not particularly happy with abortion but isn't going to shame anyone who has one for good reasons. Surely we should more be focusing on education of contraception and making condoms and the pill more easily accessible. For if there are no pregnancies that people such as myself disagree with (kids having kids, people just "chancing" it, not having the proper education etc etc). Then abortion won't have such a negative stigma, and more a one of relief as it would only be used in those more harsh situations such as rape and medical complication.

 

Edit- for the record I know that the irresponsible or lack of education based reasons are the minority when it comes to abortions but the fact that they exist and are still reasons is the part that makes me disagree with abortion.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Blear

[KageSora]

As someone who's not particularly happy with abortion but isn't going to shame anyone who has one for good reasons. Surely we should more be focusing on education of contraception and making condoms and the pill more easily accessible. For if there are no pregnancies that people such as myself disagree with (kids having kids, people just "chancing" it, not having the proper education etc etc). Then abortion won't have such a negative stigma, and more a one of relief as it would only be used in those more harsh situations such as rape and medical complication.

 

Edit- for the record I know that the irresponsible or lack of education based reasons are the minority when it comes to abortions but the fact that they exist and are still reasons is the part that makes me disagree with abortion.

I strongly think that if we did the following, abortion rates would naturally drop as the NEED for them would drop (they wouldn't stop altogether, of course, but they would drop):

• Better education--and COMPREHENSIVE. About sex, about birth control, about different types of birth control, about failure rates of each, about risks of each, about abortion, about risks of abortion, about pregnancy and the risks of pregnancy, about the COSTS of each--INCLUDING the cost of raising a child
• Much better access to multiple types of affordable birth control for males and females
• Much better medical and financial care for expecting mothers and those who have children but need help affording things and such
• Much better adoption system
• Less shaming of those who have sex and possess vaginas
• Better support for those who want to go through with a pregnancy but have no support of their own (such as those who are kicked out unless they abort--that's just as wrong as forcing them to carry to term)
• More accountability of males as it takes two to have a kid
• Reducing the effects of sexism and misogyny which will hopefully reduce the rape culture which will hopefully reduce instances of rape
• Reducing the effects of sexism and misogyny will also hopefully reduce the number of females who felt like they needed to have sex with a male for some reason

[Fuzzbucket]

I strongly think that if we did the following, abortion rates would naturally drop as the NEED for them would drop (they wouldn't stop altogether, of course, but they would drop):

 

[*]Better education--and COMPREHENSIVE. About sex, about birth control, about different types of birth control, about failure rates of each, about risks of each, about abortion, about risks of abortion, about pregnancy and the risks of pregnancy, about the COSTS of each--INCLUDING the cost of raising a child

This this this this.

 

The crap many young people - and even some grownups - believe is jawdroppingly scary. Some of it their parents have even taught them as a reason to "be good".

 

I am aware of cases where parents taught that "intercourse" would lead to babies in the gooseberry bush/cabbage patch (the girls thought that they could stay there for someone else to collect, like a harvest !!!!) - but never told them what intercourse WAS. To name but one. So they had no idea what they weren't supposed to do if they didn't want to get pregnant. How could you blame someone for asking for an abortion, given that level of education by their own parents ??? It's easy to say if you don't want a baby, don't have sex - but if you don't know what not to do.... you cannot say they are being irresponsible for having sex. They actually don't know that's what will potentially result in a baby, for bleep's sake.

 

But many schools are ordered to stop teaching the facts of life, never mind about contraception.

 

*shrieks again*

I remember years ago when my daughters' school; was setting up its sex ed programme and parents were brought it to discuss it. So many of the parents were scary stupid about it. "Tell them not to do it," they said. It was me (well, it would be ) who stood up and asked them what they wanted the school to tell them not to do.... I had a massive argument with one mother, who eventually muttered "well, intercourse..." so I pointed out that if you look THAT up in the dictionary it says something like "conversation or sexual congress..." What good does that do to a kid in search of information ?

 

In ALL the countries where there is decent sex ed, teenage pregnancy rates are far far lower than in the US and UK.

 

TYPEFAILS: I AM SO the typo Queen...

 

ETA GREAT link: a poem with music...

Edited July 13, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Blear]

Sex education is terrible here in the UK, I remember back when I was in school, we were taught about puberty but absolutely nothing else. People need to know these things so there are less unwanted pregnancys out of ignorance so the abortion rate would drop to only those who really needed it, and once something like that happens to a proceedure it can be seen as any other medical process.

I know of a person who aged 13 believed that drinking Dr Pepper would lower sperm count and therefore be an adequate form of contraceptive, long story short he has now abandoned the poor girl he knocked up and plans to have no contact with her.

This kind of situation should not be happening. Abortions should be happening in cases where there will be severe complications only, because the lack of education situation should not exist.

[Fuzzbucket]

Sex education is terrible here in the UK, I remember back when I was in school, we were taught about puberty but absolutely nothing else. People need to know these things so there are less unwanted pregnancys out of ignorance so the abortion rate would drop to only those who really needed it, and once something like that happens to a proceedure it can be seen as any other medical process.

I know of a person who aged 13 believed that drinking Dr Pepper would lower sperm count and therefore be an adequate form of contraceptive, long story short he has now abandoned the poor girl he knocked up and plans to have no contact with her.

This kind of situation should not be happening. Abortions should be happening in cases where there will be severe complications only, because the lack of education situation should not exist.

Yes and no. There CAN be failures and accidents, so choice must remain - but education is key.

 

When I was at school; (also UK) over 50 years ago (cough) we got good sex ed - they brought in a nurse so that we didn't have to hear it from an embarrassed teacher who might not be able to answer everything anyway. BUT - everyone was so scared to ask questions (we got to write them down and put them in a box for her to answer) that I got to write them ALL out for EVERYONE - they were all afraid a teacher would see, and recognise their handwriting ! I of course was as shameless then as I am today

 

For that read unashamed. There is nothing wrong with talking about sex.

[Zovesta]

As someone who's not particularly happy with abortion but isn't going to shame anyone who has one for good reasons. Surely we should more be focusing on education of contraception and making condoms and the pill more easily accessible. For if there are no pregnancies that people such as myself disagree with (kids having kids, people just "chancing" it, not having the proper education etc etc). Then abortion won't have such a negative stigma, and more a one of relief as it would only be used in those more harsh situations such as rape and medical complication.

 

Edit- for the record I know that the irresponsible or lack of education based reasons are the minority when it comes to abortions but the fact that they exist and are still reasons is the part that makes me disagree with abortion.

I have to kind of agree with this. I always want abortion to be a choice, of course, but the less of a need there is for it, the better.

 

Sometimes it's hard for me to imagine how little some people know about sex and protection. I learned about sex when I was six from my sister, then my mom taught me about condoms, the pills, getting your tubes tied, etc, a few months later. There are a number of improvements we could make on the current sex ed system in the US, that's for sure. "No means no", the actual horrors of the current adoption system, more on safe sex, complications...

 

KageSora raises a number of good points as well.

[dragonfreak6132]

I've just found this article, and let me tell you. It makes me weep for the future of humanity.

10 Reasons Why Abortion is Evil

Dear all 'pro-lifers' on the page,

Lemme explain to you a thing.

Not everyone is in your religion. Being athiest (I sure hope I spelled that right. My keyboard doesn't count it as a word, though it does count Christian.) I am not Christian. So don't go forcing your opinion on everyone.

Also, to that one person in the comments that says abortion isn't tyre woman's choice.

Excuse me? Are you honestly saying that men and women I don't know can control my body?Because you are also saying women don't have rights regarding their womb. Um, no.

[Fuzzbucket]

Atheist has the e before the i !!

 

But I am with you 100% - and I am not an atheist - nor am I a member of any organised religion. Religion has NO place in the law. That page is ghastly. I'm depressed too - but mercifully most CIVILISED countries do not take this view of things.

[Lila]

I'd also like to point out the argument of "well I'm the guy so the baby is half mine". Well number one, it's not property, and 2) just because you got some tail does NOT mean you're entitled to tell the woman what to do. I understand why a guy would be upset if his girlfriend aborted what could have ended up as their child, but he should acknowledge the fact that still, he's exploiting HER body to raise HIS family. It's still the same thing. If you want a baby, have sex with someone who doesn't want an abortion. Ok.

 

Because I know for a fact, if I got pregnant, there would be absolute mayhem between me and my own boyfriend. I would not hesitate to exercise my rights -- at least, if I have any left by then.

[pikapooka]

If abortion was banned, there would be a lot less teenagers getting pregnant since they can't abort. I'm so sick of the "my body" thing. Because in most cases, you chose to use your body. You chose to take that risk. And then you take a human life for your lack of common sense. It says on birth control and condums that it doesn't always work. Most of the time yes, others no.

 

I'm young. I don't believe in sex before marriage, but if I did make that mistake and got pregnant, I for sure would want to keep my baby, no matter what anybody told me.

 

And all these methods sound awful to me:

 

Early Abortion: Designed to be used as soon as a pregnancy can be chemically detected. After widening the cervix the abortionist inserts into the uterus a long flexible suction tube which is attached to a vacuum syringe. Using ultrasound, the abortionist locates the tiny human embryo in the womb and applies suction to tear the developing baby from the uterine wall.

 

Suction Aspiration/Vacuum Curettage: A powerful suction tube with a sharp cutting edge is inserted into the womb through the dilated cervix. The suction dismembers the body of the developing baby and tears the placenta from the wall of the uterus, sucking the contents into a collection bottle.

 

Dilation and Curettage (D&C): Here, the cervix is dilated or stretched to permit the insertion of a loop shaped steel knife. The body of the baby is cut into pieces and removed and the placenta is scraped off the uterine wall.

 

RU 486: The RU 486 procedure requires at least 3 trips to the abortion facility. In her first visit, the woman is given the RU486 pills, which block the action of progesterone, the natural hormone vital to maintaining the rich nutrient lining of the uterus. The developing baby starves as the nutrient lining disintegrates.

A second visit is made 36 to 48 hours later, and the woman is given a dose of artificial prostaglandins, usually misoprostol, which initiates uterine contractions to expel the body of the embryonic baby. A third visit about 2 weeks later determines if the abortion has taken place. At least 4% must return for surgical abortions.

 

Methotrexate: Another multi-visit procedure. In the first visit a woman receives an intramuscular injection of methotrexate, a powerful drug anti-metabolite which is often used to fight cancer. Methotrexate attacks the fast growing cells of the trophoblast, the tissue surrounding the embryo that eventually gives rise to the placenta. As the trophoblast breaks down, the baby dies as she is deprived of needed food, oxygen and fluids.

A prostaglandin vaginal suppository given three to seven days later triggers the expulsion of the child from the woman’s uterus. Sometimes this occurs within the next few hours but often a second dose of the prostaglandin is required. Those shown to still be pregnant in later visits (at least 1 in 25 women) are given surgical abortions.

 

Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): Forceps with sharp metal jaws are used to grasp parts of the developing baby, which are then twisted and torn away. This continues until the child’s entire body is removed from the womb. Because the baby’s skull has often hardened to bone by this time, the skull must sometimes be compressed or crushed to facilitate removal.

 

Instillation Methods: After fluid is withdrawn, chemicals are injected into the amniotic sac to kill the baby and initiate contractions. Saline poisons the child and burns the baby’s skin. Other methods such as urea and prostaglandins mainly work by initiating violent contractions, but are generally less effective than saline. Sometimes chemicals such as potassium chloride or digoxin are injected directly into the baby’s heart, triggering cardiac arrest.

 

Partial-Birth Abortion: Used in the fifth and sixth months of pregnancy and sometimes later. Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist reaches into the uterus, grabs the unborn baby’s leg with forceps and pulls the baby into the birth canal, except for the head, which is deliberately kept just inside the womb (at this point in the abortion the baby is alive). Then the abortionist punctures the base of the baby’s skull with a long surgical scissors or another instrument. He enlarges the wound and inserts a catheter (tube), which is connected to a powerful suction machine that sucks the baby’s brains out. The abortionist then withdraws the now-collapsed skull from the uterus.

 

Hysterotomy: Similar to the Ceasarean Section, this method is generally used if chemical methods such as salt poisoning or prostaglandins fail. Incisions are made in the abdomen, and the uterus, the baby, placenta, and amniotic sac are removed.

 

 

 

[brairtrainer]

-snip-

 

Not everyone is a chirstian, and some times people have specific sexual needs and its better to test out with a partner before hand before getting married. If abortion were banned teen pregnancy wouldn't go down, we'd have as many conceptions as we do now and we might as well go back to having the homes for unwed mothers.

 

A lot of the problem with the amount of abortions has to do with education, offer education on everything (not just abstinance) and you'll get teens making smarter choices even if they decide to have sex, and if you are educated you might be able to get around issues that don't allow some people to take pills(like my sister and my mother).

 

Also what about married couples who already have kids and can't afford anymore, or couples who don't want kids? Should they just not have sex? Considering that sex helps people to bond, helps release stress, and many other things I don't think couples are going to stop anytime soon.

 

 

[Rosedamai]

Also what about married couples who already have kids and can't afford anymore, or couples who don't want kids? Should they just not have sex? Considering that sex helps people to bond, helps release stress, and many other things I don't think couples are going to stop anytime soon.

Added to this, what about people who want to have sex but giving birth will kill them? Should they just go through the pregnancy anyways?

[BlitzDrake]

If abortion was banned, there would be a lot less teenagers getting pregnant since they can't abort. I'm so sick of the "my body" thing. Because in most cases, you chose to use your body. You chose to take that risk. And then you take a human life for your lack of common sense. It says on birth control and condums that it doesn't always work. Most of the time yes, others no.

 

I'm young. I don't believe in sex before marriage, but if I did make that mistake and got pregnant, I for sure would want to keep my baby, no matter what anybody told me.

 

False. If abortion was banned, it would make more of the secretive ones more frequent. The ones done in secret are incredibly dangerous and harmful and there would be more deaths.

 

And don't hand me the "If you don't want to get pregnant don't have sex or use contraceptives argument" because quite frankly, those are not 100% sure of working and a lot can go wrong with it. Someone could have tampered with the BC, things could've broke, you don't know everyone's situation. Some had no choice but to abort and were deeply hurt/upset by it. As "awful" as it is, the living person quite enjoys....living and not being physically or mentally damaged.

 

And why can they not say "my body"? Tell me, who does your body belong to? Cause I sure as hell won't let anything use it without my permission. I view a "zygote, embryo, whatever we name it" a parasite. Whether you agree on not, I see anything that attaches to me and decides to feed off my body and take nutrients that are suppose to go to me without me agreeing to it. I would not feel remorse for killing a tapeworm, I would not feel remorse over terminating a "embryo, thing, creature."

 

Your argument seems to be about consensual sex, such as "before marriage" I agree with your views on that (not to do before marrying) I am not saying however that "ermegerd you haz sex, u r now pregnant but because your married you can't have an abortion". Anyways, yes, back to my original statement. If your referring to consensual, so what about rape? Abducted and pretty much had the worst thing possible happen.

 

So you'd keep it even if you were raped?

 

And thank you for those methods, I found them quite interesting btw.

[Kith]

If abortion was banned, there would be a lot less teenagers getting pregnant since they can't abort.

As we can see from the articles on people who go to unscrupulous individuals for dangerous procedures - or try unsafe things themselves - to end a pregnancy, I don't believe this is actually true. Education about sex and contraceptive methods, and maximum accessibility for as many contraceptives as possible, would do much more to bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies.

 

I don't believe in sex before marriage, but if I did make that mistake and got pregnant, I for sure would want to keep my baby, no matter what anybody told me.

 

And that's totally okay. Nobody's telling you that you shouldn't.

[LascielsShadow]

If abortion was banned, there would be a lot less teenagers getting pregnant since they can't abort.

 

Just like nobody smokes weed or does other drugs because they're illegal, sure. Like nobody drank booze during Prohibition. Like nobody had abortions before Roe V. Wade.

 

The only thing outlawing abortion will do is kill more women and create more people like Gosnell. People won't stop having abortions if it's illegal, they'll just stop having safe ones.

 

It says on birth control and condums that it doesn't always work. Most of the time yes, others no.

 

And this means what, exactly? That people who were trying very hard to not get pregnant should just have a child they don't want because they got unlucky?

 

I'm young. I don't believe in sex before marriage, but if I did make that mistake and got pregnant, I for sure would want to keep my baby, no matter what anybody told me.

 

Good for you. That would be your choice. Please extend others the courtesy of allowing them to make their own.

 

And all these methods sound awful to me

Then don't think about them. Nobody is asking you to watch a procedure being done. Giving birth sounds utterly horrifying to me (episiotomies? placentas? All the other assorted lovely things the female body can do? NO, thanks.) but that doesn't mean my personal birth-squick is grounds for making law. Thinking they sound awful means exactly nothing.

 

Also, you're getting descriptions from some biased pro-birth site. Of course they're going to make it sound awful. It's way harder to get people screaming at women about being baby-killers if they use scientific terms and accurate descriptions.

Edited July 15, 2013 by LascielsShadow

[Rosedamai]

As we can see from the articles on people who go to unscrupulous individuals for dangerous procedures - or try unsafe things themselves - to end a pregnancy, I don't believe this is actually true. Education about sex and contraceptive methods, and maximum accessibility for as many contraceptives as possible, would do much more to bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies.

YES. Modern society has made it possible for abortions to be safer and easier to access. There are records of people throwing themselves down stairs, stick sharp objects into vaginas, falling from trees, eating toxic plants and killing themselves, etc., in the past when we did not have such luxury.

 

Why people want to go back to those times is beyond me.

[KageSora]

If abortion was banned, there would be a lot less teenagers getting pregnant since they can't abort. I'm so sick of the "my body" thing. Because in most cases, you chose to use your body. You chose to take that risk. And then you take a human life for your lack of common sense. It says on birth control and condums that it doesn't always work. Most of the time yes, others no.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

 

MAKING ABORTION ILLEGAL WILL NOT STOP ABORTIONS. IT WILL JUST DRIVE UP DEATHS FROM ILLEGAL METHODS.

 

People will resort to back-alley clinics, to ramming objects inside themselves in an effort to kill the fetuses, to poisoning themselves, etc.

 

ABORTION DID NOT START WHEN IT WAS LEGALIZED. Legalizing it just allowed an EXISTING PRACTICE to be done in a safe environment with professional care.

 

What part of "sex is for more than babies" and "people end up pregnant from more than just having unprotected sex" do you not get?

 

What about rape? What then? What about those who use birth control but have it tampered with? It's not always a lack of common sense. And, quite honestly, this repeated insisting that it is very worrying. It either means that the pro-forced-birthers have really crappy reading comprehension, or, worse are intentionally remaining willfully ignorant of this by essentially stuffing their fingers in their ears and going "LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALALA MAKING IT ILLEGAL IS THE ANSWER LALALALA".

 

Bad reading comprehension can be improved, or you can have the point shoved in your face until you finally get it. But if you're willfully ignoring this, willfully denying this because it will undermine your standpoint... Well, that's a much, much worse problem.

 

 

Or are YOU personally planning to pay to support all those people who would suddenly be giving birth to kids they can't afford? And you're personally going to pay for the healthcare of those who have their health permanently harmed because their bodies are not physically ready for a pregnancy at their age? Are you going to personally help abused females escape their abusive partners, which becomes much harder with a pregnancy? Especially if they can sue for visitation rights and custody?

 

 

You don't want an abortion? Awesome for you! You don't have to get one! But if I end up in a situation where I'm pregnant, I WILL need one.

Edited July 15, 2013 by KageSora

[catstaff]

I'm young. I don't believe in sex before marriage, but if I did make that mistake and got pregnant, I for sure would want to keep my baby, no matter what anybody told me.

You do realize that the whole idea behind being pro-choice is in the word CHOICE, right?

 

If you (specific as well as general) were to get pregnant, no one here is going to try to force you to abort if YOU make the CHOICE to continue the pregnancy. Your body, your life, your choice.

 

Abortions have been done since prehistory. Making them illegal again will simply bring back the bad old days of DIY abortions done with coat hangars and knitting needles. Girls and women dying of infections due to unsanitary conditions or complications like a perforated uterus. Women finding out ten years later when they have trouble getting pregnant that they no longer can get pregnant or carry to term, because of the trauma caused by an unsafe illegal abortion.

 

Not to mention, it would likely cause an upsurge in babies left to die in trash cans and other unsafe and unsanitary places by girls who've hidden their pregnancies to escape shame and/or punishment from their families. (And this happens even in places with safe-haven laws, wherein a woman can anonymously drop a newborn at a hospital or fire station or other designated place without fear of prosecution for child abandonment.) What's the lesser evil in that case, a first-trimester abortion before the embryo is developed enough to process and feel pain, or the death of a living, breathing, independent person?

 

(edited to clarify a thought)

Edited July 15, 2013 by catstaff

[BlitzDrake]

Alright, I have a question for people on both the pro sides.

What makes a person a person?

 

And to the pro-life side; Is there any argument that you can make about abortion other than a religious one or with your opinion in it? (as in can you make medical facts as to why abortion should be banned)

 

For the pro-choice side. Pro-choice people argue that the lack of consensus about when life begins implies that abortion should be legal until birth. By why only until birth? Why not after birth--that is, why do we not allow infanticide?

Edited July 15, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[KageSora]

For the pro-choice side. Pro-choice people argue that the lack of consensus about when life begins implies that abortion should be legal until birth. By why only until birth? Why not after birth--that is, why do we not allow infanticide?

To me, that's simple.

 

A fetus exists by leeching off the body of the host. Without the host body, it will die--after the point of viability, it maybe be able to survive outside of the host body if delivered early.

 

However, until such time as it is existing on it's own outside the host body, it is merely a parasite.

 

Once it is born, however, it exists without leeching off the body of a host. That's where I draw the line.

[catstaff]

Alright, I have a question for people on both the pro sides.

What makes a person a person?

 

For the pro-choice side. Pro-choice people argue that the lack of consensus about when life begins implies that abortion should be legal until birth. By why only until birth? Why not after birth--that is, why do we not allow infanticide?

I'm pretty much with KageSora on this one.

 

A person is an independently living human being; that is to say, one which has been born. One which no longer must draw its sustenance from its host. When it is no longer encased within the body of another person, it becomes a person.

 

 

[LascielsShadow]

 

For the pro-choice side. Pro-choice people argue that the lack of consensus about when life begins implies that abortion should be legal until birth. By why only until birth? Why not after birth--that is, why do we not allow infanticide?

...Seriously? Because after birth, the fetus becomes an infant. It is, at that point, an independent person, no longer exclusively dependent on the person carrying it for nourishment. It is a separate being, no longer housed within another human being's body. Infanticide is murder. Abortion is not.

[sparkle10184]

For the pro-choice side. Pro-choice people argue that the lack of consensus about when life begins implies that abortion should be legal until birth. By why only until birth? Why not after birth--that is, why do we not allow infanticide?

Infanticide is murder. Abortion is not. A fetus is not a person because it is living inside of some one and it depends completely upon that person. Babies are independent (to an extent) and they are their own person. They are living, breathing people with emotions and thoughts. That is the difference.

[BlitzDrake]

Yea...sorry guys, I'm was trying to make something where both sides have something to answer so it doesn't seem like I'm attacking anyone's side. I went on a webpage for the pro-choice question...which...after reading it, I think was a pro-life site to ask pro choice.... And now that I read it again.. ._. it was a terrible question to ask..well at least stupid imo. Alright, I just want an answer from the pro-life side beings that's pretty much why I did this ..

 

Is there any argument that you can make about abortion other than a religious one or with your opinion in it? (as in can you make medical facts as to why abortion should be banned)

Edited July 15, 2013 by BlightWyvern

[Infinis]

If abortion was banned, there would be a lot less teenagers getting pregnant since they can't abort. I'm so sick of the "my body" thing. Because in most cases, you chose to use your body. You chose to take that risk. And then you take a human life for your lack of common sense. It says on birth control and condums that it doesn't always work. Most of the time yes, others no.

 

Do you know why teenagers have sex and take the risk of getting pregnant? Because a large part of being a teenager is to experiment, you know, to try and find your place in the world, to try new things. Lack of education about sex, contraception, and related things also plays a large part in it. Banning abortion will not stop teenage experimentation with sex, nor will it stop abortion in general. In fact, it will drive abortion underground and drive women to seek dangerous and unsanitary abortions, from self induced to dangerous operations carried out by untrained people. Most of the time when a woman wants an abortion, she knows that it is the right thing for her, and if a woman wants an abortion badly enough she will find a way regardless of legality.

 

Why are you tired of the "my body" thing? I can't fathom why - I imagine you enjoy bodily autonomy as much as the next person. Why would you want to deny that to others?

 

It is not always a "lack of common sense" that leads women to abortion, and I feel that it is hateful to generalize it to that.

 

On a related note, not everyone is Christian, not everyone believes in a god or gods, some people are atheist. As for choice, I believe in God, but I do not believe that he would have given us choice if He wanted us to blindly follow.

 

I'm young. I don't believe in sex before marriage, but if I did make that mistake and got pregnant, I for sure would want to keep my baby, no matter what anybody told me.

 

I do not believe that it is a bad idea to try it before marrying. Incidentally, a lot of people don't believe in abstinence until marriage. It's good that you do, but many don't, and if you want your choices respected you should also respect the choices of others.

 

You would keep it even if your family told you to abort or leave? Because that's a thing, too. What if the baby has some defect incompatible with life? Could you really carry to term knowing your baby will die soon after birth, which I believe is an extreme cruelty, especially if it's going to suffer?

 

Of course those methods sound bad. But no one is forcing you to have them. This is the beauty of being pro-choice: we are not asking you to follow out beliefs. We are not asking you to have an abortion. All we are asking is that you respect and uphold out right to choice.

 

Alright, I have a question for people on both the pro sides.

What makes a person a person?

 

For the pro-choice side. Pro-choice people argue that the lack of consensus about when life begins implies that abortion should be legal until birth. By why only until birth? Why not after birth--that is, why do we not allow infanticide?

 

As to the first one, life experience. A fetus in the womb is alive, but I do not consider it a person. It has no personality, no life experience.

 

As to the second one, because infanticide refers to the murder of an infant that is already born.

 

Is there any argument that you can make about abortion other than a religious one or with your opinion in it? (as in can you make medical facts as to why abortion should be banned)

 

I am honestly not sure there is one; surely I've never heard such an argument, but I'm curious too if one can be made.