2024-03-24 - March Dragon Release

[seventeendeer]

@KageSora Not having a rule in place to prevent unfortunate pairings is not the same as having a whole gameplay mechanic built around encouraging unfortunate pairings.

 

Imagine if we got a dragon that could only breed true with its own family members. That would be a huge leap from simply allowing inbreeding.

 

Gameplay and lore segregation in these types of games largely come down to having a consistent tone and interacting with the suspension of disbelief in the same way each time it's tested. Once you start applying real world logic, it gets very "CinemaSins" very quickly. Not a productive angle for effective analysis.

[Animals65]

Okay so just to make sure I'm understanding all of this: The only way to get different sprites of the Spotted dragons is to use their unique BSA which changes their size? Am I getting this correctly?

[blinkdog]

I love the new BSA!!!!!!!! Very fun and different! Can’t wait to work with it ❤️

[Oleler]

1 hour ago, KageSora said:

So it seems a bit strange to try and apply human morality on one thing that would be a problem IRL but not a different one.

in my opinion, it's not all that strange. locking inbreeding away could and would harm some lineage builders, and the other is purely lore based (mostly meaning drakeXdragon) which allows us to think more about ethics. i think it is completely fair to ignore inbreeding for the sake of gameplay.

in the end, dragon cave is a very simple game, with very simple gameplay. locking specific things away due to lore reasons while keeping the others for gameplay reasons is not unheard of.

[Tini]

7 hours ago, Jazeki said:

Do the pygmy versions have dimorphism? 

Nope! which implies there will be specific pygmy hatchies from the pygmy egg

[Lagie]

1 hour ago, Animals65 said:

Okay so just to make sure I'm understanding all of this: The only way to get different sprites of the Spotted dragons is to use their unique BSA which changes their size? Am I getting this correctly?

That does seem to be the case!

[UnicornMaiden]

2 hours ago, Shokomon said:

Hell Yes Fire Leviathans.

 

We have Fire Leviathans, Air Leviathans, and Water (normal) Leviathans! All we need is Earth then we'll have all the elements! 

 

Technically they are Earth Leviathans too because they swim in Lava and melt the ground to swim, but my brain is like "Heat = Fire." Lol

 

Also new mechanic! Yaaas.

  Reveal hidden contents

Now we have the only dragon allowed to breed across subgroups.

 

What I will probably do is have one that breeds exclusively with pygmies and the other with normals. 

 

I am glad they have pygmy-sized eggs because a female non-Delta pygmy is going to have a real tough time with a normal sized egg.  Just saying.

 

Thank you for all the lovely dragons, @Munin, @Hawaiianbabidoll, and @JOTB!

 

Aren't the Arrakyma Dragons earth leviathans?

[Gluria]

I cannot believe we are discussing the morals of (in)breeding pixel dragons ... what is going on ... seriously ...

[seventeendeer]

47 minutes ago, Gluria said:

I cannot believe we are discussing the morals of (in)breeding pixel dragons ... what is going on ... seriously ...

 

I don't think the discussion is really about the "ethics", so much as it's about what makes sense tonally for a game like this. It's not about morals, but about effective storytelling and the places it overlaps with gameplay. 👍

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, I just realized the Deltas would look extremely cute in a lineage with Pumpkins ... I've always been a bit sad that Pumpkins have such big sprites compared to other pygmies, because I love them, but they look a bit mismatched next to the smaller sprites, IMO. But with Deltas, I could turn the Deltas back to full size so the sprite sizes would match! Plus, the color combo would be adorable. ;w; ❤️ 

[Elery.]

Thank you for the new dragons ❤️

[Animals65]

1 hour ago, Lagie said:

That does seem to be the case!

Okay I hope so! I just wanna make sure I am understanding this before the thread gets locked that's all! Because idk who else to turn to for answers.

[Fuzzbucket]

There's TLQ - you can ask anything there.

[Sylviadragon]

oh fun! there are all sorts of cool linage things you could do with that. Deltas could basically act as a bridge to have pygmies with a linage of large dragons in their past, or visa versa. or have a delta shrink to breed with a pygmy then enlarge again later so you have a big and small parent! what a unique bsa.

 

im also really loving the lava shark vibe from the other NR. i think that one is my personal favorite.

[laevsk]

What a fun idea for the Deltas! I love it. I'll probably keep a group of standard sized and a group of pygmy sized.

 

On the inbreeding topic - people who are developing a lineage of dogs, for example, use linebreeding (i.e. inbreeding) carefully to develop certain traits they want in their line (like body shape, coat type, etc). This can work really well if done right.  It can also be a disaster as it can increase problems, like genetic health issues and other unwanted traits. So good breeders do all the serious health testing and know all they can about the dogs they breed before they choose to do this. My last chow, an amazingly intelligent and good-tempered girl who lived a healthy life to 16 years old, had linebreeding a few places in her pedigree.  The breeders who developed the line were devoted to producing healthy, quality dogs.

 

So in the animal world, inbreeding is not an issue like it is in the human world.  I don't do any inbreeding in my dragons line because I just don't like it. But as far as morality goes, there's no logical reason to find it a problem, especially since our dragons have no health issues and tend to breed true to type ..😁. It's just a personal choice.

[tjekan]

2 hours ago, laevsk said:

What a fun idea for the Deltas! I love it. I'll probably keep a group of standard sized and a group of pygmy sized.

 

On the inbreeding topic - people who are developing a lineage of dogs, for example, use linebreeding (i.e. inbreeding) carefully to develop certain traits they want in their line (like body shape, coat type, etc). This can work really well if done right.  It can also be a disaster as it can increase problems, like genetic health issues and other unwanted traits. So good breeders do all the serious health testing and know all they can about the dogs they breed before they choose to do this. My last chow, an amazingly intelligent and good-tempered girl who lived a healthy life to 16 years old, had linebreeding a few places in her pedigree.  The breeders who developed the line were devoted to producing healthy, quality dogs.

 

So in the animal world, inbreeding is not an issue like it is in the human world.  I don't do any inbreeding in my dragons line because I just don't like it. But as far as morality goes, there's no logical reason to find it a problem, especially since our dragons have no health issues and tend to breed true to type ..😁. It's just a personal choice.

Though I understand what you are saying about real world animal husbandry, the original argument was precisely that dragons are NOT animals-- rather that they have human intelligence, and their own society and culture, and therefore they would not choose to mate with drakes (which are animals) any more than humans would.

As for inbreeding, my opinion is that since dragons are as intelligent as humans, can speak, write, cast magic, etc., then if they became inbred it must be more like Targaryens than like linebred Pomeranians!

Edited March 29 by tjekan

[Moondragon007]

If dragon inbreeding bothers you, try Flight Rising. The game doesn't permit inbreeding; it's literally impossible. Which is frustrating when you find a male and a female with nice colors, and then find out they're siblings! ☹️

[Alskasaur]

Is it possible to get CB frozen pygmy Deltas? Or do you have to breed two pygmy Deltas to get a pygmy hatchling?

[ealbiest]

Oh my the Currently being released wiki has a pic of the S/2 pygmy hatchling and it's adorable!

And the wiki states that the Delta "Has 'Shrink' and 'Enlarge' BSA that allows adults to switch between standard and pygmy size. 7 day cooldown." Meaning, the size will remain as such unless one changes it - which is perfect! Thank you so much for this interesting twist!

Edited March 29 by ealbiest

[D-wing]

Oh 2H 2A, so the pygmy s1 is different too? great, more variants to collect!  Is the time to find some interesting pairing for freeze.

[Moonlightelf]

54 minutes ago, Alskasaur said:

Is it possible to get CB frozen pygmy Deltas? Or do you have to breed two pygmy Deltas to get a pygmy hatchling?

With current information that we have, CB frozen pygmy deltas are impossible, unless the cave suddenly begins to drop pygmy-sized eggs at some point.

[Darth Krande]

Yay! It seems I was right...?

Gimme a pygmy Dorkface! Pygmy grandchild of prize dragons! 

 

But have I missed something or does the new BSA need inbreeding? Or what's the connection why inbreeding is so actively being discussed in the new release topic?

[PokeCat]

51 minutes ago, Darth Krande said:

But have I missed something or does the new BSA need inbreeding? Or what's the connection why inbreeding is so actively being discussed in the new release topic?

 

Nah, people are just talking about it because for the first time in 17 (Almost 18!) years, we can have a dragon crossbreed between breeding groups, so people were talking about standard x two-head or standard x drake being a thing, but drakes have lore reasons that they're more animalistic in nature vs standard dragons/pygmies/two-heads having more human-like intelligence so the conversation of morality came up and here we are. 

 

The dragons switch with a BSA and breed to the respective groups as normal, no inbreeding required. 

[Aurora-Silver]

While I like the concept of the Delta and the BSA, I don't like it when one of the eggs is breed exclusive.

 

I actually don't like having bred dragons on my scroll although for the encyclopedia I try to fill it all, but I'd prefer to have CB Eggs in the cave.

They could randomly pop up with a different description to be able to see wether its a pygmy or a normal dragon.

 

I'd be all in for a CB cave drop.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

I'm a bit surprised that there's no confirmation page to shrink Deltas like there is Corporealize and Metachrosis. I was 100% expecting to hit a 'continue' button.

[laevsk]

10 hours ago, tjekan said:

Though I understand what you are saying about real world animal husbandry, the original argument was precisely that dragons are NOT animals-- rather that they have human intelligence, and their own society and culture, and therefore they would not choose to mate with drakes (which are animals) any more than humans would.

As for inbreeding, my opinion is that since dragons are as intelligent as humans, can speak, write, cast magic, etc., then if they became inbred it must be more like Targaryens than like linebred Pomeranians!

 

Ahhh, but if they are as intelligent and capable as humans, why do we own them, choose their mates, choose when they die, etc.?  Regardless of what's said about them in the lore, the "reality" of this game is that these are animals owned by us humans, to do with as we wish (within the boundaries of the game, of course).

 

But the actual reality is that they are little pictures on our screens and limited by the game, so what's the point of arguing about inbreeding? It's not actual inbreeding. It's an open choice allowed by the game we are playing. Nothing immoral, illegal or unethical about it.

 

I still won't inbreed.  That's MY choice. 

 

By the way, modern humans (species: Homo) bred with Neandertals and DenIsovans, who were less advanced and probab!y more animalistic. This shows up in many people's DNA.