Pink Sapphire mechanism

[Yubelchen]

I didnt even think about CBs, oh dang, i am still on getting the rest but yeah, i want CB pairs of every new release variation so that will be utterly pain, even more when i try to grab my own  CB

 

Now thats some witchcraft, how the hell do i get a pink Sapphire as CB then????

[Tini]

14 minutes ago, Yubelchen said:

I didnt even think about CBs, oh dang, i am still on getting the rest but yeah, i want CB pairs of every new release variation so that will be utterly pain, even more when i try to grab my own  CB

 

Now thats some witchcraft, how the hell do i get a pink Sapphire as CB then????

I mean, now the only CBs in ap will be pink, it's not that confusing. (unless people are turning them yellow then tossing I suppose, but mostly pinks) you just got pretty lucky lol there's not be a ton of CB sapphs tossed to the ap.

[HeatherMarie]

5 hours ago, MissK. said:

@Infinis It is also intended that CB blue Sapphires will never be in the AP again then? I

 

4 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

 

1) lineage making is very popular, and requiring pinks to go through the AP means the odds of creating intentional lines with them are exceedingly slim and very, very dependent on the mercy of others;

 

 

These are my two biggest issues with this whole thing, really. It doesn't necessarily affect *me* because I don't make lineages and don't prefer CBs, but it does negatively affect a *lot* of other users. Honestly I'm much more upset by the fact that there will *never again* be a CB blue Sapphire in the AP than anything specifically with the pink ones. I just don't understand why that would be seen as a positive mechanic, I mean the CB part, the 'only turning pink when abandoned' is honestly less strange to me than an *old* type of dragon suddenly becoming completely extinct in the AP. CB blue Sapphires will eventually become much more wanted and valuable than the pinks or yellows, I bet, simply because they literally aren't possible to get in the AP anymore and ones caught in the biomes might be turned pink or yellow. 

 

And the lineage issue... A lot of players see that as the core of their gameplay. I see a *lot* of older users around here that have specifically stated in the past one of the only things that still keeps them interested in the game is making pretty lineages. The whole pink mechanic kind of tosses that concept out the window, there will be *no* way to reliably make any sort of pink-based lineage. Especially since we aren't allowed to post asking for abandoned eggs back or do that through the Hub. 

[UnicornMaiden]

I think it would be nicer if the pink mechanic worked more as an inverse to the yellow mechanic. Eggs with few views would still count as lonely.

 

Say something like:

Egg has fewer than X views = Pink

Egg has between X and Y views = Blue

Egg has more than Y views = Yellow.

 

For people who want more of a challenge it would require the extra attention of fogging at just the right time to get what they want, but more casual players could just throw the egg in a hatchery and see what they get.

[High Lord November]

Initially I thought it would be an egg hatching at a low time with low views (to counter the 'lots of views/attention'), so I fogged the second Sapphire I got when the release first started.

 

At the end of the day, this is one sprite. It isn't a gamebreaker and I enjoy having a challenge. It would be a bonus to have a 'solo' way of obtaining the Pink Sapphires though, even if difficult.

 

Are we gonna get some lore as to how/why they change colour? That's what I'm most excited about!

Edited May 26, 2021 by High Lord November

[Alymarie]

I agree with the others. I do not have a problem with the yellow mechanism (though I would prefer it if they only transform as eggs), but it would make sense for the pink sapphires to have an opposite mechanism like the one UnicornMaiden suggested. At the current time it is seriously difficult to get a CB blue or pink sapphire, not to mention this makes it harder for those who want to create lineages. I agree there should be a way for users to get pink sapphires on their own without relying on the AP. It is...chaotic to say the least. Fingers crossed I'll get at least two CB pink sapphires someday, haha. 

[UnicornMaiden]

Rethinking my own suggestion, maybe it would make more sense, lore-wise, if the fewest views were for blue, then the medium views were for pink and the most for yellow. That way every egg would start off with blue as the default color when it's brand new and has no views yet. CB eggs would still look like "a beautiful blue stone" when they're caught.

[Paradisiske]

Yellow sapphires are fine.

 

Infinis has suggested an alternative for the pinks in this thread which I find preferable. As it is now, getting pink sapphires cb or bred depends on the actions of others. Blue cb sapphires will no longer exist in the ap. Lineage building is going to get a whole lot more complicated.

 

I would be happy if we went with Infinis alternative. Otherwise we will just have to adapt to the abandoning mechanic.

 

Though it seems these cb pink sapphires are going to wreck the trading market. No offers on a cb gold and other people offering a cb stat just for the cb pink sapphires.

[Arkee]

I'm on the side that really doesn't mind pinks being that way. Lineages will be very hard to breed, sure, but it's not completely impossible. And it's not like they're rares as blues. They're just being very hyped right now.

 

Though, it would be very nice if they had, like, a slim chance of breeding true. So the easiest method to turn them pink would still be abandoning, but you could luck out and uh, they could lay an egg as lonely as they are. Anyway you would still need to trade for very long lineages, unless your CB goals are like, very large.

[Fuzzbucket]

9 hours ago, Infinis said:

whether tj would want to add an additional mechanic i don't know. maybe if it it was the reverse of the yellow but the view count set so absurdly low for turning that you'd basically have to nd it and hope it fails to turn, such that the easiest, fastest, and primary method of achieving a pink sapph is still yeeting to the ap. neutral at best about it but any mechanic adjustments/additions would be up to tj anyway. y:

 

Yes please, to whoever would need to do this. I like to build lineages, and having to rely in the AP means I risk - at best - people suddenly deciding to kill things, and at worst never being able to find what I need - imagine trying for a 4 gen checker built from AP finds... I can't see it...

[Infinis]

so i havent read the pings and ultimately wont because i just dont have the spoons to engage in discussion, so i'm going to leave the following here and disengage:

 

---

 

1) i would like the primary/easiest method for obtaining pink sapphs to remain the ap, especially for cbs

 

2) i would be fine with an additional low view count mechanic to be added: hatch with 500 views or less. this means it pretty much has to be ultra low time to hatch. it would be essentially running an ND experiment

----> 2a) 500 suggested because to turn a yellow, the view count is ~4k; if the views to hatch a pink are much higher than 500, it might make the range for blues to stay blue too narrow, unless the min views for yellow are raised in tandem

----> 2b) this means the ap would still be the easiest/fastest/guaranteed way to get pink sapphs, but still affords some control with patience and planning

 

3) alternatively, pinks breed true some of the time. but not all of the time.

----> 3a) eliminates lineage concerns: yeah you'll probably have to breed more than once, but you won't have to yeet

----> 3b) suggested percentage chance of breeding true: 30-40%

 

4) whether tj will go for any changes, i don't know. mechanic changes at this stage are fully up to tj. 

[deleted_account]

2 (low views to hatch) seems most inclusive (allows the widest range of possibilities). One can possibly make CBs AND continue lineages on their own if they want to do the planning and waiting and prefer that over AP stalking, or simply don't have time to stalk the AP.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Meh

[Paradisiske]

As I stated before, I think what Infinis has stated is best. They want pink sapphires to still be in the AP which is fair. We should keep that imo.  Adding in suggestion 2 on top of ap pink sapphires seems best to me. This will allow for people to get cb pink sapphires without hounding the ap constantly and it will allow people to make lineages with pink sapphires. 

[Alymarie]

7 hours ago, UnicornMaiden said:

Rethinking my own suggestion, maybe it would make more sense, lore-wise, if the fewest views were for blue, then the medium views were for pink and the most for yellow. That way every egg would start off with blue as the default color when it's brand new and has no views yet. CB eggs would still look like "a beautiful blue stone" when they're caught.

This makes a lot of sense now that you bring it up. I forgot that the eggs should start blue. 

 

I like the suggestion some others are proposing. That is, perhaps the egg could turn pink if it goes 4 or 5 days without receiving views, otherwise it would stay blue (unless it reaches the threshold for yellow). I don't mind the AP mechanism, but I don't like that it's the only mechanism. 

[Silverwatermist]

I'm not going to ping Infinis directly since they said they need to disengage, but I just want to state that I really appreciate the concept artist/spriter popping in to explain their thought process behind why they prefer Pink Sapphires being collected from the AP, and even offering suggestions, alternatives, and changes they would be comfortable with concerning the mechanic for their dragon. Thanks for taking the time to do that, it's very appreciated!

[Spicedpunch]

Didn't realise yellow Sapphs could turn after they've hatched- I'm very much in favor of changing that to egg only as proposed in OP.

 

For pink Sapphs, if you're a solo player in this game getting one is incredibly difficult (as in there's no way to "make" one for yourself, you have no control as it's not something the site is 'auto-making' like current CBs either). At the moment the whole premise for it to exist in the first place requires someone else to first "make it" and the maker doesn't even get to keep it. Right now the AP might have decent pink Sapph numbers but that's due to a group of people who are going out of their way to be 'charitable' for a novel release- how long do you think that will last? I'm very much in support of adding low view count as another hatching option (option 2 proposed by Infinis), especially since it mirrors the yellow Sapph's mechanic quite nicely. You can also tell how difficult to collect a particular breed is going to be in terms of how intense release time catching is - right now I've seen multiple on-site tradings offering CB Golds, CB Silvers, 2G Prizes and even some 2G spriters alts, all of them asking for CB Pink Sapphs (yes, they're very specific about saying CB because at least with bred options, one could result from someone just not wanting the egg they made; to abandon a CB is a whole other story).

 

ETA: Special mention to angelicdragonpuppy, very solid & good points made, agree very much with them

Edited May 27, 2021 by Spicedpunch

[Keileon]

I think yellows are currently fine as is, though maybe bumping up the view threshold a tad.

 

Pinks, though, are where I really don't like the mechanic. A variant you can get by abandoning the egg is a nice, novel concept and by itself there's not much wrong with it, my issue comes from the fact that it's a pain to make lineages with them. Speaking for myself, I try to collect 8 CBs per gender per variant per breed, which is enough for a 5G checker base. With the exception of prizes and holidays, I only make checkers of my own dragons, and the lowest gen I'll go is 5. You can see why this would be a problem if I ever decided to do a pink sapphire checker, and this is the reason why I'm not even considering it.

 

If I had to change the mechanics at all, it would be all of the following:

- Keep the abandon mechanic, or make it a chance upon abandoning to allow CB blues to exist in the AP

- Make them breed true, give a 1/6 chance of tossing blues like you see with same-color Spinels

- Give a Siyat-like mechanic where they have to hatch with less than 2 days

 

Obviously it isn't up to me, but from the perspective of someone who usually just sticks to her own projects and doesn't bother with the AP at all, this is how I'd handle it.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Keileon

[Fuzzbucket]

11 hours ago, Infinis said:

1) i would like the primary/easiest method for obtaining pink sapphs to remain the ap, especially for cbs

 

2) i would be fine with an additional low view count mechanic to be added: hatch with 500 views or less. this means it pretty much has to be ultra low time to hatch. it would be essentially running an ND experiment

----> 2a) 500 suggested because to turn a yellow, the view count is ~4k; if the views to hatch a pink are much higher than 500, it might make the range for blues to stay blue too narrow, unless the min views for yellow are raised in tandem

----> 2b) this means the ap would still be the easiest/fastest/guaranteed way to get pink sapphs, but still affords some control with patience and planning

 

3) alternatively, pinks breed true some of the time. but not all of the time.

----> 3a) eliminates lineage concerns: yeah you'll probably have to breed more than once, but you won't have to yeet

----> 3b) suggested percentage chance of breeding true: 30-40%

 

4) whether tj will go for any changes, i don't know. mechanic changes at this stage are fully up to tj. 

 

Thank you for listening, Infi. And 2 would be my chosen "solution". (Oddly enough a relative thought is might be the way things would be, and has one fogged to test ! I guess I ill tell him to let it out !)

But 3 would be nice too.

 

4 hours ago, Silverwatermist said:

I'm not going to ping Infinis directly since they said they need to disengage, but I just want to state that I really appreciate the concept artist/spriter popping in to explain their thought process behind why they prefer Pink Sapphires being collected from the AP, and even offering suggestions, alternatives, and changes they would be comfortable with concerning the mechanic for their dragon. Thanks for taking the time to do that, it's very appreciated!

 

Yes indeed  

[sorenna]

I can't lie, I'm pretty upset that I'm never going to be able to find a CB blue Sapphire in the AP ever again (I have a lineage project that uses them, but I also just like them because they're pretty).  I'd support changing or tweaking the mechanism so that at least some CB Sapphires can make it to the AP without changing color.

[dragongrrl]

2 hours ago, sorenna said:

I can't lie, I'm pretty upset that I'm never going to be able to find a CB blue Sapphire in the AP ever again (I have a lineage project that uses them, but I also just like them because they're pretty).  I'd support changing or tweaking the mechanism so that at least some CB Sapphires can make it to the AP without changing color.

The 2 Sapphires I autoed to the AP on the 25th are still showing as blue eggs. Anything autoed will still be blue.

 

ETA: yes, CBs will still be an issue. I think 2 of my 4 CBs are from the AP, as are my 6 EG Sapphires.

Edited May 27, 2021 by dragongrrl

[purplehaze]

37 minutes ago, dragongrrl said:

Anything autoed will still be blue.

But you can't auto CBs, which is what Sorenna needs. Of course CBs are still available in the biomes, but there are advantages to finding them in the AP.

[sorenna]

Purplehaze beat me to it!  Yes, my problem is that the current mechanism means that CB blue Sapphs will never appear in the AP.  Other things are temporary, like Sapphs being hard to get, or are part of the game that can be worked around, like needing other players (there are trading posts and forum posts for swapping Cantors to get orange ones), but this is the first time a CB has been 'deleted' from some part of the site.

 

Maybe there could be a time split - Sapphires abandoned within 1 day of laying/catching turn pink, while Sapphires abandoned after that stay blue? 

Edited May 27, 2021 by sorenna

[schenanigans]

Just here to point out the paradox of both panic because "nobody is going to abandon CB sapphires!" while simultaneously "oh no now we can never get CB blue ones in the AP!"

[Infinis]

I don't really like the idea of manual abandon resulting in both colors... manual abandon is intended to result only pink - yes, this means cb blues are no longer possible in the ap, but I don't think it's really terrible that players need to hunt the biomes (sapphires appear in all biomes) or buy from the market for cb blues. AP will still contain autoabandoned bred blue sapphires.

[sorenna]

2 minutes ago, schenanigans said:

Just here to point out the paradox of both panic because "nobody is going to abandon CB sapphires!" while simultaneously "oh no now we can never get CB blue ones in the AP!"

 

 

The people panicking over CB Sapphires never hitting the AP because they're rare right now aren't the same ones upset that blue ones will never hit the AP at all because of a permanent game mechanic.  The former can wait out the rarity hike, which will level out when the next big release comes along; the latter have no solution except "suck it up and deal" or hoping that the mechanic may be changed.