Coronavirus Discussion

[olympe]

33 minutes ago, Confused Cat said:

§😈

Welllll, @olympe, have you actually seen a coronavirus? And even if it exists, do you know that's what causes the symptoms?

All you know is there is suddenly a new illness, and all the governments (not trustworthy!) and mainstream media (insert a certain bad word here) say it's caused by a virus, but... is that the truth?

oOOoooOOooooo.... (spooky noises, X-Files music)

We know some sorts of waves can affect tangible objects. Microwaves can melt cheese, so maybe... radio waves can affect the human body?

oooooOOOOOOOO! (dramatic music, slowly getting louder)

What if they reprogram our cells so they start spontaneously producing viruses? Computer programs can be transmitted through radio waves, and... biological viruses work just like computer viruses.

oooooOOOOOOO!!!

...

 

(Just to be clear, I do not believe the things I just wrote. I was just contemplating whether or not one has to be stupid to believe there's a connection between covid-19 and radio waves. I found out it's rather hard to make that theory believable, but if someone spent more time creating arguments than I just did, they might sound a lot more credible, even to not-stupid people.)

I must admit that I see no reason to start a discussion like this, seriously. If someone is convinced that the stork brings all the babies, then it's absolutely useless to try and teach them how babies are made and grown and brought into the world. And I don't feel like it's a good idea to give people like that the attention they obviously crave - and a place to spread their nonsense. Because nonsense is like covid: It catches. 😕 

 

[Confused Cat]

1 hour ago, olympe said:

I must admit that I see no reason to start a discussion like this, seriously. If someone is convinced that the stork brings all the babies, then it's absolutely useless to try and teach them how babies are made and grown and brought into the world. And I don't feel like it's a good idea to give people like that the attention they obviously crave - and a place to spread their nonsense. Because nonsense is like covid: It catches. 😕 

 

Sometimes I like to try to understand what's going on in the heads of people with weird or even terrible opinions - but you are right, and I should have thought of this: even saying "the stork does not bring babies" can actually help spread the stork theory.

 

So, uh, back to topic. Sorry.

[Astreya]

4 hours ago, olympe said:

I must admit that I see no reason to start a discussion like this, seriously. If someone is convinced that the stork brings all the babies, then it's absolutely useless to try and teach them how babies are made and grown and brought into the world. And I don't feel like it's a good idea to give people like that the attention they obviously crave - and a place to spread their nonsense. Because nonsense is like covid: It catches. 😕

Remember the Covidiot Belarus President Lukashenko in his interview after an ice-hockey game that was sadly broadcast all over Belarus?

Here: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/video/2020/mar/29/there-are-no-viruses-here-belarus-president-plays-ice-hockey-amid-covid-19-pandemic-video

 

And for the record: of course a virus is too small to be seen without an electron microscope - but that doesn't mean it isn't there and dangerous!

 

 

Update:

I just stumbled over this interesting information:

Quote

A French hospital that retested old samples from pneumonia patients has discovered that it treated a man with the coronavirus as early as 27 December, nearly a month before the French government confirmed its first cases.

 

Dr Yves Cohen, head of resuscitation at the Avicenne and Jean Verdier hospitals in the northern suburbs of Paris, told BFM TV that scientists had retested samples from 24 patients treated in December and January who tested negative for flu.

 

“Of the 24, we had one who was positive for Covid-19 on 27 December,” he told the news channel on Sunday.

 

The samples had all initially been collected to detect flu using PCR tests, the same genetic screening process that can also be used to detect the presence of the coronavirus. Each sample was retested several times to ensure that there were no errors, he added.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/french-hospital-discovers-covid-19-case-december-retested

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Astreya

[trystan]

3 minutes ago, AngelsSin said:

I've read the book your reading it certainly is an interesting read.

so i'm still near the beginning, but A Stranger in the Mirror is a fictional novel about a celeb named Toby Temple.  not sure if that's the book you've read?

 

but - my younger daughter had to get Lucifer's Effect for her high school psych class, so we have it.  i might give it a read.

 

and - to the subject, my county's website (https://covid19-bucksgis.hub.arcgis.com/) is reporting these numbers tonight:

Total Confirmed Cases: 3,429

Recoveries: 882

Deaths:  258

 

there's a link that i found on facebook - https://www.unacast.com/covid19/social-distancing-scoreboard - where  you can search your state and county and see what grade it gets with social distancing and how far people are travelling and such.  my county gets an overall grade of D-.  wow.

[Daydreamer09]

@AngelsSin

I mainly just had an issue with that one sentence I quoted as it didn't sit right to read. Saying a stereotype is accurate was simply why I spoke up. I'm not really wanting to drag this further either.

 

I think with the steaming of clothing you mentioned they might believe the heat from the steam would kill the virus. I don't know what temperatures the virus can withstand, but I find it doubtful as well that it'd do anything. Clothing shopping is definitely one of those questionable past times right now. Back in March I heard that catching covid19 from touching fabrics hadn't been observed, but that might be outdated by now.

 

@purpledragonclaw

Thank you for the link to the sexism thread! You're awesome.

 

I found a news article of a town in Oklahoma where the mayor mandated facemasks while shopping and apparently the EMPLOYEES of stores were the one getting the backlash from it. Both physical and verbal.

https://news.yahoo.com/city-ends-face-mask-rule-205822754.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_04

[StormBirdRising]

On 5/3/2020 at 9:15 AM, ValidEmotions said:

@Astreya 

It also appears in the news that Germany has seen a rise in COVID cases after lockdown regulations were eased.
https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-germany-s-covid-19-infection-rate-rises-after-lockdown-lifted

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/germanys-coronavirus-infection-rate-has-edged-up.html

 

Which just supports what several have been saying to @StormBirdRising and @TheScorpionKing: there will be a rise in COVID Cases if US states continue to remove lockdown restrictions. We haven't even started to decline in number of new cases (let alone additional deaths) per day.

 

There is going to be a rise in cases no matter what because more people are getting tested. It appears that most of the people who test positive have no symptoms. As more and more people are tested there will be more and more positives. Are the people who tested positive carriers?, do they have antibodies?, will they develop symptoms?, can they get it again? Nobody knows.

[Fuzzbucket]

Which is exactly why distancing (and closed beaches and stores etc) needs to continue.

[Astreya]

Daily update for Oberhausen, NRW, Germany:

As of today, Tuesday, May 5, 10:00 GMT+2,  my home town (population 211 000) has 68 active cases, while 157 people have recovered. All in all there have been 226 people who suffered from Covid-19 since the beginning of the pandemic..10 persons are treated in hospitals, no one of them currently needs intensive care. 1 person sadly died. 200 persons are currently quarantined. All in all there have been 5567 Covid-19 tests in Oberhausen so far.

 

Source: https://www.oberhausen.de/de/index/rathaus/verwaltung/umwelt-gesundheit-und-mobilitat/gesundheit/aktuelle_informationen/informationen_zum_coronavirus/aktuelle_meldungen.php

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Astreya

[Raikielia]

9 hours ago, AngelsSin said:

Also there was a clip of this women who describes the testing for COVID as her brain being impaled, the person giving the test as pulling her brain out through her nose and being gripped by the back of her head like they were her lover but instead of a kiss they ripped her soul out.

 

I kinda don't like when people describe testing like this, even if they do it in a joking manner, because it seems like this would discourage people from getting tested.

[Astreya]

I just found this interesting graphic that shows how stringent the lockdowns are between countries (the darker red, the more strict)

Spoiler

Source: https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-lockdowns/

 

[Fuzzbucket]

That's fascinating. Not least the US - where people are making the most fuss - going out with GUNS !

 

As for that description of the test - STUPID. My daughter - a key worker - is having one today;  I'll let you know if her brains are pulled out...

[Ruby Eyes]

They should try a gastroscopy with failing local anesthesia, much more "fun".

 

15 hours ago, Astreya said:

And for the record: of course a virus is too small to be seen without an electron microscope - but that doesn't mean it isn't there and dangerous!

A fart is invisible, too, yet it still has the power to make someone gag. I guess nobody ever farted into that guy's face ...

 

@Fuzzbucket below: Goal for the day achieved

Edited May 5, 2020 by Ruby Eyes

[Fuzzbucket]

RUBY ! I am SHOCKED  

[purplehaze]

9 hours ago, Daydreamer09 said:

 

I found a news article of a town in Oklahoma where the mayor mandated facemasks while shopping and apparently the EMPLOYEES of stores were the one getting the backlash from it. Both physical and verbal.

https://news.yahoo.com/city-ends-face-mask-rule-205822754.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_04

There was a case in Michigan where a store guard was shot to death because he told someone they needed a face mask to enter a store.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/us/michigan-security-guard-mask-killing-trnd/index.html

[olympe]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

That's fascinating. Not least the US - where people are making the most fuss - going out with GUNS !

 

As for that description of the test - STUPID. My daughter - a key worker - is having one today;  I'll let you know if her brains are pulled out...

Well, I can tell you that mine wasn't like that at all. I hard to gargle with a NaCl solution (probably 0.9%, it wasn't all that salty. A little less salty than what I use for cooking pasta) and then spit it out again. That was it.

Sooo awful. /sarcasm

 

Regarding discomfort: Try having a bone marrow sample taken from you with only local anesthesia. The needle (which is several millimeters thick, I think it ws 3 or 4 mm) needs to go into the middle of the bone (iliac crest, in my case) and the anesthesia hardly works at all below the periosteum. And, for the LOLs, have that done twice in one sitting because the doctor didn't get the "red marrow" he needed in the first try. Only to find out that you have absolutely no red iron complex in your marrow at all (total iron depletion). The second probe looked to me like the first, only with some red blood mixed in. I didn't dare say so in fear of having the procedure done for a third time. *grumbles* That was 23 years ago, and I still remember it vividly.

[Lagie]

Our Minister of Health resigned yesterday.   We're doomed.  Well, not quite doomed, but he was a very intelligent well-spoken actual doctor which was most reassuring at this time, and the incident he resigned over appears to have been a set-up.

[Raikielia]

I'm a big wimp when it comes to pain and I wouldn't call the test 'painful', it was more just a kind of sharp feeling, if that makes sense. It was unpleasant, but the test was quick and the discomfort didn't last long at all.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have my fillings done with no needles (except for root canal). That person was a wimp.

[ValidEmotions]

Maybe they are a "wimp" and maybe they're not. It's sometimes easy to forget but everyone has different thresholds for pain, and that threshold isn't even uniform across one body. But it's not the individual's fault, it's just something their body is born with. Additionally, not everyone experiences pain/discomfort the same way. You might have a higher or lower pain tolerance. Or, for example, my sister didn't feel anything when getting a tattoo behind her ear while feeling some discomfort on the back of her calf but I felt a ton of discomfort when getting something done behind my ear but not one trickle of sensation when the bottom of my foot was being dug into with a scalpel without a numbing agent. Yet, I'll cry like a toddler when stung by a wasp.

Edited May 5, 2020 by ValidEmotions

[Raikielia]

40 minutes ago, ValidEmotions said:

Maybe they are a "wimp" and maybe they're not. It's sometimes easy to forget but everyone has different thresholds for pain, and that threshold isn't even uniform across one body. But it's not the individual's fault, it's just something their body is born with. Additionally, not everyone experiences pain/discomfort the same way. You might have a higher or lower pain tolerance. Or, for example, my sister didn't feel anything when getting a tattoo behind her ear while feeling some discomfort on the back of her calf but I felt a ton of discomfort when getting something done behind my ear but not one trickle of sensation when the bottom of my foot was being dug into with a scalpel without a numbing agent. Yet, I'll cry like a toddler when stung by a wasp.

 

Maybe, but they need to keep it to themselves and/or not over exaggerate the experience. This is something that we need people to not be afraid of, and things like that can scare people or discourage them from getting it done.

[Fuzzbucket]

39 minutes ago, Raikielia said:

 

Maybe, but they need to keep it to themselves and/or not over exaggerate the experience. This is something that we need people to not be afraid of, and things like that can scare people or discourage them from getting it done.

 

Exactly this. There is no possible way the test can feel like that, though.

 

ETA just got email from the daughter. The test (in the UK anyway) is like this:

 

Quote

It was VERY exciting. Like some sort of post-apocalyptic dystopian thing (except everyone was very helpful). It was a series of drive-through stations. (My son - who was driving) had to show my QR code and I had to show my photo ID (all through the windows which we were not allowed to open). He also had to disable his dashcam. We then drove onto station 2 where we had to show the QR code and ID again. A bag with the test in was put under the windscreen wiper and we drove to point three. This was more of a portacabin arrangement. Someone took the bag and held up a laminated sheet telling us to ring a mobile. I had to put on gloves and open my window slightly so a plastic envelope could be dropped onto my lap. The envelope contained the test bag, a sheet or barcodes and a specimen envelope for the test to go into. He gave me instructions on how to do the test then sent us forward to queue. If we became confused at any point or had any other problems we had to put on our hazard lights. The next port of call was where I did the test, put a stickers on the tube, put the tube in the specimen bag (but DIDN'T seal it) and put another sticker on the bag. Final stop I had to phone another mobile number and was instructed to take the test pot out of the bag so he could check it had a barcode, put it back in, let him check the barcode on the bag itself then seal the bag. He then placed a bin by my window and stood 2 meters back so I could throw my test into the bin and roll up my window. Job done. It was all quite entertaining, very efficient and, in my view, somewhat overstaffed!!

 

Doesn't quote match NO-ONE held her head like a lover or ripper at her brains.... Just saying.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Fuzzbucket

[olympe]

1 hour ago, Fuzzbucket said:

I have my fillings done with no needles (except for root canal).

Well, I don't. I may be a wimp, but I know it. Plus, I always ask for a little bit extra local anesthetic because my body tends to neutralize it quickly. Same goes for my mom and my daughter, so it's probably genetic. Anyway, during my last dentist visit, I got one filling. The anesthesia stayed through the drilling and left almost completely during the filling process. After he was done, my dentist told me that the tingling sensation should stop in around an hour... I told him it was long gone, and that I had regained part of my feeling already. He looked kinda surprised. I just hope he believed me.  

Edited May 5, 2020 by olympe

[RainDear]

My opinion, just my opinion. Not intending to speak for anyone else.

 

It seems to me we are at war (WWIII?). Every country in the world is being invaded by an insidious enemy.  We can't fight this enemy with guns, or bombs. The military can't fight it for us. The Who, NIH, and medical experts are not the enemy. The people mandating the lockdowns are not the enemy. Those enforcing the lockdowns are not the enemy. Donald Trump, The governors, Prime Ministers or other officials are not the enemy. Nor are the Democrats or Republicans nor any other political party. COVID-19 is the enemy. The only way we have to fight it is to practice the protocols we have been given by the experts. Each one of us has to decide for ourselves "The buck stops here. This thing will not use me as a stepping stone to its next victim." Each of us has to do this.

 

If anyone thinks, "Well I'm young and strong. It only kills the sick, old or weak. Weeding them out will make everyone else stronger." Think about it...Are you sure there are no sick, weak or elderly persons in your life that you want to spend another Christmas or other holiday with?? We know now that many survivors come out of this with organ damage that could be permanent. Are you sure you are ready to risk that?  We have already had places where temporary shelters were erected for patients because the healthcare system was overloaded with COVID patients. If we don't reduce the numbers of new cases, we could have people dying from easily treated illnesses or injuries just because they can't get treatment in an over loaded healthcare system.

 

I may be wrong on some points, but the way I see this now, there are three possible outcomes in our future:

 

1. Most (all?) of us will take this threat seriously and begin to use the recommended protocols to the best of our ability and give COVID fewer and fewer victims until it has been contained and eventually fades back into the woodwork at least for a time. This will give our researchers a chance to develop a vaccine or treatment protocol to be ready if it comes back.

 

2. Enough of us will get serious enough about following the procedures to reduce the number of new cases so that our healthcare system will be able to cope. Again the scientists will be able to get a vaccine or treatment ready to help get it under control.

 

3. We'll keep on the way we are going now. The virus will keep spreading like wildfire and a lot more people will die than would have ever been necessary. We may still get a vaccine or treatment, but an awful lot of us will never be able to profit by it.

 

The enemy is real, even if you can't see, smell or taste it. Please don't wait for more deaths before you decide to fight back.

Edited May 5, 2020 by RainDear
corrections

[purpledragonclaw]

Thank you RainDear! As always, you know just what to say. 

 

On a chloroquine update, a whistleblower complaint came out today from someone who used to be part of BARDA. It's worth a read. And anti-vaxxers are already coming out against a coronavirus vaccine.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by purpledragonclaw
Forgot the WaPo article.

[Astreya]

2 hours ago, olympe said:

Well, I don't. I may be a wimp, but I know it. Plus, I always ask for a little bit extra local anesthetic because my body tends to neutralize it quickly. Same goes for my mom and my daughter, so it's probably genetic. Anyway, during my last dentist visit, I got one filling. The anesthesia stayed through the drilling and left almost completely during the filling process. After he was done, my dentist told me that the tingling sensation should stop in around an hour... I told him it was long gone, and that I had regained part of my feeling already. He looked kinda surprised. I just hope he believed me.  

That's interesting. I always need tons of local anaesthetic until I don't feel anything any more, too. That's since I was a little kid - I still remember when I was in primary school and I had some warts on my hands and the Doc tried to get them out with a "sharp spoon" (a small surgical tool) it still hurt like hell and the doc didn't understand it as he already gave me a much higher dosage than normal. When I had a root treatment at the dentist's much later, he had to put six or seven loads of the local anaesthetic into me until it worked. He actually wondered whether I was a drug addict, but frankly, I suspect that I probably wouldn't really feel anything from drug.

 

Plus I have strange side-effects from all pain meds I ever tried (my body temperature suddenly dropped to below the minimum temperature of the old mercury thermometer I used then - 33 or 34°C, that is - you see it's been a while since I last tried them XD), so I never every used anything like acetylsalicylic acid, paracetamol or ibuprofen ever since. Thus when I got my appendix out when I was in the twenties, I told the surgeon he should better place a wood hammer next to the surgical table in case the anaesthetic would stop working during the surgery, but it seems the anaesthetist took my worry seriously and chose the right stuff that properly knocked me out  XD).

 

I always thought it was me who was so strange, but about 6 or 7 weeks ago, I talked with my brother who had to under go a procedure under local anaesthesia for the first time, and he mentioned to me that the local anaesthesia didn't seems to work with him (and the doctor at first didn't believe him), so there might be some genetic connection after all (even though none of our parents experienced the same).

 

As for Covid-19, there are some hints that it might be that there are some genetic peculiarities in people that make them more susceptible to the virus, too. But as many things with SARS-CoV-2, this is still under investigation.

 

Which reminds me, there is a new study (not peer-reviewed yet) that the virus which is currently the most prevalent one is slightly different from the original one that first showed up in Wuhan: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.29.069054v1

 

The SARS-Cov-2 pathogen that was originally sequenced by the scientists in Wuhan in the beginning of January was the original strain which has a slightly different spike protein and which is less transmissible than the newer second strain which is more prevalent in Europe and North America now. There are some worries that the current vaccine research with the originally sequenced genome of the virus might run into a dead end and the resulting vaccine possibly could not work against the newer strand.

 

Additionally the researchers have a hypothesis that the people who got a second Covid-19 infection, originally might have had the first strain and build an immunity against that, but then encountered the newer second strain and thus were not immune against the mutated version of the virus. If this is indeed correct, it could be more difficult to come up with a working vaccine than expected.