Trading Hub Feedback

[osmarks]

9 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

It does mean the OP can carry on playing without risking egglock. You don't have to offer if you have no hatchling; or you can catch in the AP and inuhatch...

 

 

Agree 100%

 

 

That's not quite the case - you need to join the forum to message about trades - but - so some trades can't work between some players. It isn't the end of the world.

 

 

As long as it was restricted to 3-4 words - like "precogged female". Yes I do mean 3-4 words.

It's deceitful. I consider only AP and cave eggs free, as you can just grab them, with no BSAs, and do whatever. It's not free if they want a hatchling, which costs much more time, and it should be labeled as not free.

 

The forum-joining thing is about the rules only being here despite (seemingly) being enforced with bans. I interpreted it that way, anyway, given the context.

 

Anyway, many trades which could happen are being blocked because of the lack of (even limited, dropdown-box-with-simple-stuff) messaging.

Edited July 24, 2018 by osmarks

[Fuzzbucket]

5 minutes ago, osmarks said:

It's deceitful. I consider only AP and cave eggs free, as you can just grab them, with no BSAs, and do whatever. It's not free if they want a hatchling, which costs much more time, and it should be labeled as not free.

 

 

An incuhatched hatchie from an AP takes a whole couple of hours. I've done it a couple of times for trades. And how is it DECEITFUL? - it is stated right up there and you don't have to offer if it bothers you. And it is the ONLY way to offer up an egg as a gift, as one ways are not allowed. What do you suggest someone who wants to gift an egg should do to make it available to people who cannot be on forum ? Kaini's suggestion of an on-site gifting area is great. Until then, it's the only option.

[osmarks]

1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

An incuhatched hatchie from an AP takes a whole couple of hours. I've done it a couple of times for trades. And how is it DECEITFUL? - it is stated right up there and you don't have to offer if it bothers you. And it is the ONLY way to offer up an egg as a gift, as one ways are not allowed. What do you suggest someone who wants to gift an egg should do to make it available to people who cannot be on forum ? Kaini's suggestion of an on-site gifting area is great. Until then, it's the only option.

Well, not astonishingly deceitful, but it has an attention-grabbing "FREE!" then isn't actually free.

 

An onsite gifting area is pointless. We have the AP.

[Fuzzbucket]

Many disagree with you, but to each their own. The AP is also full of things bred at random to earn shards. It is very hard work trawling it.

[osmarks]

Just now, Fuzzbucket said:

Many disagree with you, but to each their own. The AP is also full of things bred at random to earn shards. It is very hard work trawling it.

How would a gifting area not also end up containing things bred at random to earn shards?

[Fuzzbucket]

Because people will (I would guess) be describing them as you do in trading - at the very least - so you'd ignore that ones that said 27th gen Brimstone... - and you'd also have to use a Magi to offer it - not something people do lightly. And breeding for shards is very often done over and over, randomly, direct to the AP while egglocked.

 

BTW Have you never gone for a supermarket offer ? Free - collect 20 tokens from packets of Superchoc cookies ?

Edited July 24, 2018 by Fuzzbucket

[osmarks]

1 minute ago, Fuzzbucket said:

Because people will (I would guess) be describing them as you do in trading - at the very least - so you'd ignore that ones that said 27th gen Brimstone... - and you'd also have to use a Magi to offer it - not something people do lightly. And breeding for shards is very often done over and over, randomly, direct to the AP while egglocked.

 

BTW Have you never gone for a supermarket offer ? Free - collect 20 tokens from packets of Superchoc cookies ?

Just because real-life stores are horrendously deceitful and bait-and-switchy, doesn't mean DC has to be.

Why would gifters use a more expensive system which is basically the same as the AP?

[Lucere]

33 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

That's not quite the case - you need to join the forum to message about trades - but - so some trades can't work between some players. It isn't the end of the world.

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. What I meant was pretty much what osmark was saying, currently the only way to find out about the rules/guidelines for the trading hub is to join the forums, or at least be an "active lurker" and read topics. Even so, recent clarification on trading hub rules was made in a post that is buried deep in this particular topic. People have already been banned from public trading. In addition it seems like even some forum users (including myself) were unaware that something like "Wants: Username you are currently egglocked" would be considered "spam" and possibly a bannable offense. It may not be "the end of the world" but it can be incredibly annoying for some users if they have to join the forums just to be able to send a brief message stating "yo, this hatchie? precogged female".

 

But then again, that whole thing could be negated with a little optional message thing that people could include with an offer. I agree, it doesn't need to be long (or it could even be a dropdown menu of sorts). Also maybe a similar (short 3-4 world only, or a dropdown menu of preset messages) one for when you decline. Sometimes, the only offer I get from a trade that has been in the hub for two days is from someone who is currently egglocked, and has no forum account to message them. 

 

ETA: And it may just be me but I'd totally take a 27th gen dragon .. if it were a Monarch, lol. 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Lucere

[Fuzzbucket]

8 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Just because real-life stores are horrendously deceitful and bait-and-switchy, doesn't mean DC has to be.

Why would gifters use a more expensive system which is basically the same as the AP?

 

It isn't the same at all. You can see what you'd be getting before you click in a trade thread - as you could if we had a gifting page in the game. I use magis to gift on forum - offer an egg using a teleport and with a description of the line. It may be JUST the egg whoever gets it was looking for. To drop it to the AP would probably mean the person whose lineage NEEDS S it wouldn't see it before someone else who would have been happy with ANY - say - Ridgewing egg would get it.

 

You've not been playing that long - when you really get into lineages you will see it differently, I bet.

[Ruby Eyes]

13 minutes ago, osmarks said:

Just because real-life stores are horrendously deceitful and bait-and-switchy, doesn't mean DC has to be.

Why would gifters use a more expensive system which is basically the same as the AP?

They already do - in gifting threads such theDC Community Notice Board

[Fuzzbucket]

11 minutes ago, Lucere said:

 In addition it seems like even some forum users (including myself) were unaware that something like "Wants: Username you are currently egglocked" would be considered "spam" and possibly a bannable offense. It may not be "the end of the world" but it can be incredibly annoying for some users if they have to join the forums just to be able to send a brief message stating "yo, this hatchie? precogged female".

 

But then again, that whole thing could be negated with a little optional message thing that people could include with an offer. I agree, it doesn't need to be long (or it could even be a dropdown menu of sorts). Also maybe a similar (short 3-4 world only, or a dropdown menu of preset messages) one for when you decline. Sometimes, the only offer I get from a trade that has been in the hub for two days is from someone who is currently egglocked, and has no forum account to message them. 

 

ETA: And it may just be me but I'd totally take a 27th gen dragon .. if it were a Monarch, lol. 

 

I would have thought "wants" as a box title was fairly self-explanatory

 

Does your Monarch have to be PB or tidy ? If not - I can arrange that

[osmarks]

Just now, Ruby Eyes said:

They already do - in gifting threads such theDC Community Notice Board

Okay, that's true, but compared to the AP that's not very high-volume.

2 minutes ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

It isn't the same at all. You can see what you'd be getting before you click in a trade thread - as you could if we had a gifting page in the game. I use magis to gift on forum - offer an egg using a teleport and with a description of the line. It may be JUST the egg whoever gets it was looking for. To drop it to the AP would probably mean the person whose lineage NEEDS S it wouldn't see it before someone else who would have been happy with ANY - say - Ridgewing egg would get it.

 

You've not been playing that long - when you really get into lineages you will see it differently, I bet.

I don't have no idea of how stuff works on DC just because I've only played for a month.

I'm aware that some people like nicely-lineaged ones. But with a dedicated gifting page, people just wanting any ridgewing would go there, too, and probably grab it anyway.

[Fuzzbucket]

But people LOOKING for one would have had a far better chance of seeing it in time.

[osmarks]

Just now, Fuzzbucket said:

But people LOOKING for one would have had a far better chance of seeing it in time.

Possibly. But with higher costs, there would be fewer anyway.

[Fuzzbucket]

I have an army of Magis just for this purpose. As do many of us serial gifters. Many of us actually (and yes, I know this wouldn't  fit with an on site gifting thing) search out sigs and posts with wants in them, just to glomp something that will for sure be loved. (And in reverse - I got a number of my dragons from sad posts in my sig. Kind people saw and bred for me !) Many of us like to know our stuff will go to people who particularly want it.

 

But we're not going to see eye to eye on this one.

[HeatherMarie]

A one-way 'gifting' counterpart to the trading hub would be *awesome* and would definitely be used by many people, like the many many people who already use the departures thread. Some of us really like that sort of thing, putting up interesting gifts for people to take, and no it's not the same as the AP at all... Normally if someone is looking at the departures thread and grab a gift from there, they *want* that gift. Normally gifts offered there are things that others will actually want, since using up a Magi for what you think is garbage is not really something that most people will do. Much different from the AP that is often filled with stuff no one wants, stuff bred without care, and you have to sit there refreshing for hours and hours in the hopes of finding that one thing you actually want. Of course if someone feels that it's the same thing as the AP, they don't have to use it.

[LadyLyzar]

The one way gift thing is a nice idea, but I find it somewhat redundant as the AP has a similar purpose.  If I remember correctly, the Departures thread predates Teleport and at that time, it was used to mention when things went to the AP.

 

With regards to the AP I usually breed when egglocked to send out amusing lineages to anyone who may find them.  However, that's neither here nor there - this is about the Trading Hub.  Also, nothing can be "free" on the Hub since it is 2 way trades only.  When someone uses the word "Free" that tells me that they will take almost anything as a dummy.  It's a "gift" in that they are not looking to get anything special in return. 

 

However, I don't really consider it to be abuse of the system.  Abuse of the system would be spam messages, posting trades for conversations, etc.  While doing things like song lyrics and asking for things that don't exist may be funny, it's still spam and doesn't belong on the Hub.  The Hub isn't meant to be used as a chatroom.

 

Personally, I think the Trading Hub is a great start, but it could use improvements.

 

1. The ability for the initial trader to send a private message to people offering.  This would clear up the reposted trades that say, "I'd like to trade but you're locked."  However, the person who posted the trade should be the only one who can initiate these conversations to prevent an offerer spamming "Accept my trade plz!" when their offer doesn't match what is wanted.

 

2. The optional ability to select up to four specific dragons wanted, with an and/or option if the trader is looking for multiple dragons.  The poster would be able to select breed (also a ? egg/hatchling for "Any"), growth stage (egg/hatchling/any), origin (caveborn/bred), and gender (if applicable).  You would not be able to offer on the trade unless you have at least one creature that matches the request.  So, if I wanted a CB female Undine hatchling, I could actually specify that, and someone who didn't have one could not make an offer.

 

3. Flood control.  I've seen lots of people deleting and reposting the exact same trade minutes later to keep theirs near the top.  That's not fair to others.  As such, I think time frame between new trades should be set to at least 15 minutes for identical dragons.

Edited July 24, 2018 by LadyLyzar

[Whirlaway]

11 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

3. Flood control.  I've seen lots of people deleting and reposting the exact same trade minutes later to keep theirs near the top.  That's not fair to others.  As such, I think time frame between new trades should be set to at least 15 minutes for identical dragons.

 

Pagination would help with this too...

[Jazeki]

12 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

The one way gift thing is a nice idea, but I find it somewhat redundant as the AP has a similar purpose.  If I remember correctly, the Departures thread predates Teleport and at that time, it was used to mention when things went to the AP.

 

With regards to the AP I usually breed when egglocked to send out amusing lineages to anyone who may find them.  However, that's neither here nor there - this is about the Trading Hub.  Also, nothing can be "free" on the Hub since it is 2 way trades only.  When someone uses the word "Free" that tells me that they will take almost anything as a dummy.  It's a "gift" in that they are not looking to get anything special in return. 

 

However, I don't really consider it to be abuse of the system.  Abuse of the system would be spam messages, posting trades for conversations, etc.  While doing things like song lyrics and asking for things that don't exist may be funny, it's still spam and doesn't belong on the Hub.  The Hub isn't meant to be used as a chatroom.

 

Personally, I think the Trading Hub is a great start, but it could use improvements.

 

1. The ability for the initial trader to send a private message to people offering.  This would clear up the reposted trades that say, "I'd like to trade but you're locked."  However, the person who posted the trade should be the only one who can initiate these conversations to prevent an offerer spamming "Accept my trade plz!" when their offer doesn't match what is wanted.

 

2. The optional ability to select up to four specific dragons wanted, with an and/or option if the trader is looking for multiple dragons.  The poster would be able to select breed (also a ? egg/hatchling for "Any"), growth stage (egg/hatchling/any), origin (caveborn/bred), and gender (if applicable).  You would not be able to offer on the trade unless you have at least one creature that matches the request.  So, if I wanted a CB female Undine hatchling, I could actually specify that, and someone who didn't have one could not make an offer.

 

3. Flood control.  I've seen lots of people deleting and reposting the exact same trade minutes later to keep theirs near the top.  That's not fair to others.  As such, I think time frame between new trades should be set to at least 15 minutes for identical dragons.

I would appreciate all of these things. I often want to accept offers, but people are locked. I also worry about flood control. I breed lots of goodies at once (like say several silver prizes or multiple coppers) and I worry that my multiple similar offers clog the hub.

 

I also would appreciate updated clear rules on the site.

[LadyLyzar]

Flood control would only kick in for different dragons.  If I had say, multiple CB Golds (a mod can dream, right?) and wanted to post a different trade for each one, that would be fine.

 

However, if I canceled a trade, I could not repost the exact same trade for awhile.

[Shadowdrake]

Pagination would be great for that because right now people repost approx every hour because they're no longer visible with the high influx of trades and low space available.

[HeatherMarie]

21 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

1. The ability for the initial trader to send a private message to people offering.  This would clear up the reposted trades that say, "I'd like to trade but you're locked."  However, the person who posted the trade should be the only one who can initiate these conversations to prevent an offerer spamming "Accept my trade plz!" when their offer doesn't match what is wanted.

 

2. The optional ability to select up to four specific dragons wanted, with an and/or option if the trader is looking for multiple dragons.  The poster would be able to select breed (also a ? egg/hatchling for "Any"), growth stage (egg/hatchling/any), origin (caveborn/bred), and gender (if applicable).  You would not be able to offer on the trade unless you have at least one creature that matches the request.  So, if I wanted a CB female Undine hatchling, I could actually specify that, and someone who didn't have one could not make an offer.

 

 

I have to comment on these... I would most definitely want an option to disable/disallow any sort of private messages if #1 were to happen. I don't care if my offer doesn't get accepted or why it isn't accepted, I do *not* want to be messaged in-game by another member. For any reason. Period. 

 

I really really don't like the idea of just completely blocking people from offering on a trade simply because the offer wasn't specified by the trader. While I totally get that it's annoying to be offered something that is totally the opposite of what you are asking for (I've had plenty of those offers myself!), imo that's just a 'necessary evil' and it's not actually something that hurts you in any way. It takes less then two seconds to hit 'decline' if the offer is not what you want. I personally think that it would be very discouraging and create a very negative atmosphere to completely block someone's offer just because it wasn't specified by the trader. If the trader doesn't like the offer they can decline. If the offerer has something really awesome that the trader didn't specify, it might be something the trader would totally want but will totally miss out on because it can't even be offered (for example, I know multiple users who 'go low' when listing wants, not thinking their trade is worth more then those certain dragons, but they'd be thrilled if something of higher value was actually offered!). 

[Lucere]

56 minutes ago, LadyLyzar said:

1. The ability for the initial trader to send a private message to people offering.  This would clear up the reposted trades that say, "I'd like to trade but you're locked."  However, the person who posted the trade should be the only one who can initiate these conversations to prevent an offerer spamming "Accept my trade plz!" when their offer doesn't match what is wanted.

 

2. The optional ability to select up to four specific dragons wanted, with an and/or option if the trader is looking for multiple dragons.  The poster would be able to select breed (also a ? egg/hatchling for "Any"), growth stage (egg/hatchling/any), origin (caveborn/bred), and gender (if applicable).  You would not be able to offer on the trade unless you have at least one creature that matches the request.  So, if I wanted a CB female Undine hatchling, I could actually specify that, and someone who didn't have one could not make an offer.

 

3. Flood control.  I've seen lots of people deleting and reposting the exact same trade minutes later to keep theirs near the top.  That's not fair to others.  As such, I think time frame between new trades should be set to at least 15 minutes for identical dragons.

 

1. I didn't think about the whole making it optional thing, but yeah that would be a great addition to being able to send a small 3-4 word message when offering/declining. I understand not everyone wants scroll-to-scroll messaging, but sometimes it's nice to have something there when you decline to let the other person know that you'd like to accept but you/they are egglocked, or if you're offering an s1 hatchie but would like to tell them it's been precogged/influenced a certain gender. Making it optional might be a good compromise.

 

2. While I understand that getting offers you don't want is frustrating (I've put up trades in the past where I got a gazillion offers, and absolutely none of them included what I specifically asked for in my wants), I'm not sure if this is the best way to go about it. It's pretty easy to select "decline" -- almost too easy in fact since I've definitely almost declined offers that I actually wanted (definitely should have to enter password to decline, lol). And yeah, I've definitely had times where it was one user who kept offering me the same things that I didn't want multiple times, or those who kept offering me everything else they had on their scroll, and they are a bit annoying. However, as HeatherMarie pointed out, sometimes you do get nice offers that are of a higher value than what you initially asked for. And yeah, I'm definitely one of those people who low-ball their wants because I just want quick trades, lol.

 

3. Personally, as someone who tends to trade rares and semi-rares quite a bit, I'd strongly dislike any sort of "flood control" system as long as we don't have pagination. Once my ND/Gold/Dino/whatever falls off the "front" (well, only) page, it gets no offers whatsoever (not even "garbage" offers), so I have to keep re-bumping the trade until someone sees it and has what I want. Depending on how fast the trade hub moves, 15 minutes may be too long / too short. Sometimes I can put up a trade and it'll stay on the front page for 30+ minutes. Other times it is 5 minutes. Once we do get pagination, then yeah sure, introduce a "flood control" system of a specified number of time. But, not with the way it is now. Please.

 

Also, sometimes I put typos/mistakes in my trade wants (like marking a 3G as a 2G ... whoops). Having to wait a whole 15 minutes just to repost it with the proper wants is a bit annoying. I already get annoyed when I have to wait 90 seconds or whatever just to use the search function again on the forums because I can't spell properly, lol.

[HeatherMarie]

26 minutes ago, Lucere said:

 

3. Personally, as someone who tends to trade rares and semi-rares quite a bit, I'd strongly dislike any sort of "flood control" system as long as we don't have pagination. Once my ND/Gold/Dino/whatever falls off the "front" (well, only) page, it gets no offers whatsoever (not even "garbage" offers), so I have to keep re-bumping the trade until someone sees it and has what I want. Depending on how fast the trade hub moves, 15 minutes may be too long / too short. Sometimes I can put up a trade and it'll stay on the front page for 30+ minutes. Other times it is 5 minutes. Once we do get pagination, then yeah sure, introduce a "flood control" system of a specified number of time. But, not with the way it is now. Please.

 

Also, sometimes I put typos/mistakes in my trade wants (like marking a 3G as a 2G ... whoops). Having to wait a whole 15 minutes just to repost it with the proper wants is a bit annoying. I already get annoyed when I have to wait 90 seconds or whatever just to use the search function again on the forums because I can't spell properly, lol.

 

Yeah, unfortunately the current trend of rapid-bumping is sort of *necessary* to make up for the lack of pagination. If your trade falls off the front/only page there is no way for anyone to see it unless they specifically filter for it. I've had trades sit there for hours with no offers at all, but when I remade the trade completely the same there were offers within minutes... And it takes very little time for trades to become completely unseeable with how fast the hub moves. Right now, for example, it's 7:42 in-cave and the bottom trade visible is from 7:17.... That's less then a half hour. So yeah, please no sort of limits/penalties on re-making trades until pagination is implemented.

[Starscream]

3 hours ago, Fuzzbucket said:

 

I would have thought "wants" as a box title was fairly self-explanatory

So self explanatory that I am not even sure why its used in other ways and really why its difficult to understand when actions happen regarding it. Some message to the effect as to why its disabled would be good though.