Snow Angel Breed

[Ariento]

I do like the hatchling BSA idea. I agree that it may be just a tad OP, but the thing is, it's the holidays. It's a stressful time IRL for a lot of people. Part of the reason we have limits on grabbing CBs is to make sure that everybody has a chance and to avoid causing additional stress. Furthermore, the hatchling BSA means that you can influence SAs without relying on other people if you don't have adults of your own.

[Dragon_Arbock]

@LibbyLishly This is the way the game works. The more adult dragons you have, the more things you can do. Get more egg/growing slots, and you get to use BSAs. BSAs are clearly not meant for hatclings. There was nothing wrong with the proposed Adopt BSA, other than people are too impatient to build up their base of adult dragons before they can do anything. Too bad.

[LibbyLishly]

9 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

@LibbyLishly This is the way the game works. The more adult dragons you have, the more things you can do. Get more egg/growing slots, and you get to use BSAs. BSAs are clearly not meant for hatclings. There was nothing wrong with the proposed Adopt BSA, other than people are too impatient to build up their base of adult dragons before they can do anything. Too bad.

I am aware that is the way the game works. Only being able to have one color of SA is also the game works. Having the color of the SA based on your scroll is also how the game works, which any suggestions that the dragons breed true to their mother ignore. This is the suggestions subforum, where we can propose changes to how the game works. Why NOT give a hatchling the ability to behave it a way that will influence its color, especially a special holiday dragon that already has some very unique characteristics? Why NOT open up the game to allowing hatchlings to occasionally DO something?

 

I am all for an Adopt BSA for adults, but I'm not so married to it that I can't see the upsides to other proposals as well.

 

And if you find something too easy, you can always just not use it so that you can have a greater challenge. In a way, ALL BSAs break the balance of the game one way or another.

Edited November 21, 2017 by LibbyLishly
A word and a thought.

[TCA]

Sooo, assuming we do get a way to obtain multiple colors, such as breeding true + BSA to influence or anything else, what if instead of the hatchie sprite changing, the description changed? Instead of just "Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored."...

 

"Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored. You think you see white feathers."

"Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored. You think you see gold feathers."

"Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored. You think you see multicolored feathers."

[olympe]

I'd suggest changing the "multicolored feathers" to "feathers in three different colors", just to make it more than just clear that it's the tri-colored variant.

 

Or, alternately:

"Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored. It has golden feathers."

"Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored. You think you see some white among the golden feathers."

"Aww... It's a cute baby dragon. It's very festively colored. You think you some red and green among the golden feathers."

ETA: I just noticed that SA hatchlings have white wings. All of them.  I always thought they were golden. Oops.

 

I know that to any knowledgeable player, your descriptions are kind of obviously pointing towards one variety or another, but on the other hand, I can already see the help threads coming. "The description says my Snow Angel hatchling has white feathers. What's wrong with it?"

Edited November 21, 2017 by olympe
My own idiocy

[TCA]

Those work too. I just figure, a description change wouldn't require art changes.

[LibbyLishly]

@Dragon_Arbock

1. I think giving a hatchling a BSA makes sense. Sorry you don't.

2. Let's face it: TJ almost never implements any suggestions exactly as hammered out in this subforum, so it's not like discussion of hatchie BSAs is any more "derailment" than, say, perpetual references to an in-cave communication system. You have no idea if TJ is open to a hatchling action until he comes in and says that's not an option (and even then he's been known to change his mind).

3. Several people (not me) clearly think waiting a year is a very big downside. You can't just say it isn't and expect everyone to fall in line. I don't think a three-year rotation system has very big downsides, but I've accepted that such a thing would greatly annoy just about everyone else.

 

@TCA Honestly it would drive me nuts if the text didn't match the picture.

Edited November 21, 2017 by LibbyLishly

[Dragon_Arbock]

@LibbyLishly Waiting a year is not a downside when you'd only be using Adpot for alternating lineages. Breeding true covers every possible other need and Adopt only exists to pacify anyone who wants alternating lines. I don't even know if it would work on CBs if they come back, and I don't even know if I would want it to.

And no, I'm fairly certain giving hatchlings a BSA is not what TJ wants. It breaks the cooldown system if every egg/hatchling can do it.

[LibbyLishly]

@Dragon_Arbock Why are you trying to convince me that it's not a downside? I SUPPORT the adult BSA just as much as anything else. Other people feel that it's a downside to have to wait or to have the egg breed true to the mother instead of the scroll. Stop tagging me to defend your pet suggestion. I will take anything that gets me all three color variations and the ability to build them into lineages, from a three-year rotation to a hatchling BSA. The more control we can have the better.

 

Glad you seem to know the mind of God. Not sure how a hatchling BSA breaks the cooldown system when a hatching is inherently limited in its ability to perform an action, but okay.

[olympe]

See? That's the actual downside of making it a hatchling-only BSA. Because, let's face it, you'll never be able to influence the first Angel egg of any season. Just something to keep in mind. (Unless, of course, it would be a BSA for frozen hatchlings only - which, in turn, would kind of force players to actually freeze hatchlings.)  Another reason why this is not really a good idea, because all hatchlings have the same white wings at S2.

[Jazeki]

I'd be okay with a tweak to hatchie descriptions without wing color changes. Even better if we could somehow make them work on S1 hatchies. As I said before, the earlier I know the color the better.

 

Edit: please nothing that requires me to freeze a hatchie to use it. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jazeki

[olympe]

Uhm, @Dragon_Arbock, I think you have it backwards. 

 

With making this a hatchling-only BSA, you'll always need a hatchling ready to influence an egg you might not have had, much less needed to influence, when you got the older baby dragon in the first place. Second, the chances of you just happening to have a hatchling of the correct variety for influencing a certain egg is... not exactly pretty low, but definitely not 100%. Plus, since those of us involved in holiday lineages usually try to speed-raise everything, timing can be more than just problematic. Because hatchlings do grow up. (If, on the other hand, you intend to give the BSA to frozen hatchlings, the situation is no different than with adults.)

 

If you give the BSAs to adults, on the other hand, you'll be able to "save up" enough of each variety in order to never run out of influences of any kind, even if you decide to collect snow angels exclusively. Just like many of us have gazillion reds and pinks to never run out of their respective BSAs.

 

It's quite simple, really. Hatchling-BSA means that you need to be prescient in order to have the hatchlings ready when you need them (since these critters tend to grow up), which limits the use of their BSA severely.

Limited to adults, however, gives you practically endless use of the BSA if you collect enough of them. But once you have done so, you're set.

[Shadowdrake]

I assumed the hatchling BSA thing was having the hatchling choose its own wing color? Is this wrong?

[stagazer_7]

Uhm... my 2 cents on the subject. While I'm among the playerbase that didn't get their favorite SA color, I grew very fond of mine and enjoy the challenge of creating lineages with them. I'm firmly against any suggestions that would enable already grown adults to change their color, because that would mess up a whole score of lineages (it would devastate lines like this) and be more troublesome then not. I'm also against yearly rotations of colors, that would cause way too many problems - in case we'll be getting CB's, some players would have to wait for up to 3 years in order to get their chosen Angel and as for bred eggs, we'd also have to wait for years in order to be able to breed perfect checkers, a downgrade from what we currently have. As for the 'breeding true' idea... also no thanks, this would mean you couldn't do alternating lines any more (which would be a shame, because there are many pretty ones out there). Also no random colors variants on growing up - scroll-fixed colors worked so far, it's very predictable, I know what I'm getting and that's the way I like it.

 

A BSA that would give me the power to influence not yet hatched eggs to be of a wing-color of my choosing is the best option so far. I also wouldn't really care if hatchling got a BSA to control their own wing color, I haven't noticed it'd been stated anywhere that hatchlings can't have a BSA, it's just something that's never been implemented yet... frankly, I don't see what's so gamebreaking about it. Adult or hatchling BSA, I wouldn't care either way, both are good. And the BSA's effect should wear off when abandoning the egg, but not the influenced hatchie (like withe the Pink's BSA)..

[Ruby Eyes]

2 hours ago, Shadowdrake said:

I assumed the hatchling BSA thing was having the hatchling choose its own wing color? Is this wrong?

That was my idea, at least. I don't understand how it could be read as changing some other egg's colours or anything. Like Enrage/Pacify or Corporealize, it would only change the dragon in question itself - and only hatchlings, as they are actually able to *do* anything (other than eggs), and as adults doing so would destroy lineages (plus, they are too mature to do stuff like playing in snow).

 

You have at least 3 days, minimum 4 if you stun, to use such a BSA. Plenty of time to look at the lineage and decide what you want.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Ruby Eyes

[LadyLyzar]

There is no reason whatsoever to bring drama and personal attacks into a debate.  This is a game.  If you feel riled up, step away.

 

This topic is now locked while I go through it.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I really like the idea of SAs breeding true but adults being able to influence to the scroll color. It's very simple and covers everyone's needs right from the get go. Preferably the action would stick once used, so if CBs return people can swap them to get their ideal CB color.

 

Also think the description change makes a lot of sense. Just say you see a FEW golden / red and green feathers (to signify gold wings nd tricolors--whites need no such text) and justify it as them being so scarce they aren't visible on our tiny scroll drawings, just to us. Getting ready to molt to their final adult colors! Of course I wouldn't mind s2 sprite tweaks, but description changes are all the easier to do.

[Tini]

I'd just like to hop in in support of the breeding true to the mom, as well as a BSA to influence the color. Though I admit the mental image of the hatchling playing in the snow to change its own color is adorable and I'm not against that either.

 

I'm so excited at the prospect of being able to get both of the other colors I prefer

[LibbyLishly]

8 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

Also think the description change makes a lot of sense. Just say you see a FEW golden / red and green feathers (to signify gold wings nd tricolors--whites need no such text) and justify it as them being so scarce they aren't visible on our tiny scroll drawings, just to us. Getting ready to molt to their final adult colors! Of course I wouldn't mind s2 sprite tweaks, but description changes are all the easier to do.

 

That's a good point! I take back my earlier objection to the description not matching.

[olympe]

8 hours ago, angelicdragonpuppy said:

I really like the idea of SAs breeding true but adults being able to influence to the scroll color. It's very simple and covers everyone's needs right from the get go. Preferably the action would stick once used, so if CBs return people can swap them to get their ideal CB color.

 

Also think the description change makes a lot of sense. Just say you see a FEW golden / red and green feathers (to signify gold wings nd tricolors--whites need no such text) and justify it as them being so scarce they aren't visible on our tiny scroll drawings, just to us. Getting ready to molt to their final adult colors! Of course I wouldn't mind s2 sprite tweaks, but description changes are all the easier to do.

This is my favorite, too - with one tiny little difference: Adults should be able to influence to their own color, not the scroll color. It's true that, in the first year, there won't be any difference. But, starting with the second year, you'll be able to influence to any of the non-scroll colors (if you have adults in the respective colors), which will make things much easier down the road.

[Ruby Eyes]

10 minutes ago, olympe said:

It's true that, in the first year, there won't be any difference.

That's why I'd prefer if hatchlings would be able to pick their own colouring (similar to Nebulas, but with their owner encouraging them to do so). DC may be along-term game, especially with holiday breedings, but there's no need to delay things even further ...

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I'm not against a hatchie BSA, but I don't think adults would make such a big difference even year 1. Firstly, the proportion of SAs you catch that you both don't want to be their bred color and your own scroll color is likely to be pretty slim. Secondly, if you really do want that third color, you can come to the forums and ask for help. Yes, this will impact non socializing players for the first year--but they are already getting a huge bonus to the game without much change (if they want their SAs to all be their color as normal, they only have to breed or adopt; then extra colors plucked from the AP is just an unexpected surprise). 

 

Again I don't think it's a terribly big deal (magic and some suspension of disbelief is required either way), but having adults influencing hatchlings and giving your native color a bit more oomph from the get go feels more "right."

 

I do like Olympes idea of the SAs color sticking with adopt rather than the scrolls, although on the other hand it would be a bit sad to see the original scroll color mechanic basically entirely erased. It was a frustrating mechanic for years, yes, but at the same time now that other colors seem an option, I wouldn't mind a bit of a callback to it as a way of remembering the breed's unique history.

[kiramaru7]

I've been reading through this thread & I'm about 1/2 through & I saw someone had suggested (I'm not sure who it was) the idea of a BSA for Snow Angels to change the wing color to get the color you'd want. I think one needed to have a Snow Angel to do this. What if instead of having an existing Snow Angel to do this, you had a common dragon that had a special BSA that only worked during the holiday season? Set it up like fertility, where you pick the dragon you wanted & in this case it would be one of the three wing colors.  It'd be like Summon, in that once you used it, it's gone until next year. I think it would give some love to a dragon that most peeps overlook during the year cuz they think it's a cave blocker or they're meh about the sprite, but have a few just to have "everything." That way new players who find Snow Angels in the in the special biome can get the color they want from the start. And if it works well enough, then MAYBE this can be a year round BSA so those who make lineages with things like Nebula's can use it to make sure they get the colors they need.

 

That's just my two cents tossed in here. *goes back to reading the thread*

[olympe]

I don't know. It seems a little far-fetched for any one breed that's not a holiday breed to affect Snow Angels in any way, shape or form. Using Snow Angels themselves seems like a better idea, since the BSA only affects them (like Enrage/Pacify or Corporealize).

 

Scroll-coded color is still very dominant, and will be for years to come. First of all, it would affect (un-influenced) CB eggs, provided we'll get a holiday biome again. Second of all, which color do all your adult Snow Angels have right now? Right, your scroll color. So, what is the color you can "enforce" on your scroll in the beginning? Right, your scroll color. And which color is most likely to stay the majority for quite a while yet? Once again, it's your scroll color.

[Jazeki]

I don't really want a non-holiday breed to have control over how snow angel colors work. To me, snow angels and other Xmas  dragons have pretty powerful magic that a regular dragon couldn't compete  with. Also, while the idea of letting people influence their snowbutt's colors from the get-go sounds neat, it kind of ruins it for everyone else who had their colors decided for them by their scroll. As you all know, I'm in favor of the initial CB snow angel being the scroll locked color and then all other adults carry the ability to influence their colors as well. So you can influence to the scroll color or the colors of the mom/other adults as wanted. Of course, that's if we go with an adult bsa.

 

Edit: to clarify, babies would inherit mom or scroll color unless influenced. So, if you pick up a tri-color offspring, it would grow up that color unless the bsa was used. CB angels would be scroll color unless you had an adult of another color to change it.

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Jazeki