Snow Angel Breed

[Fuzzbucket]

A BSA isn't "earned."

 

And one's scroll setting already influences eggs born to white angels to be gold, gold to be tri or whatever because of the scroll mechanism. This suggestion is no more weird, makes no less sense, than that which already happens. If I adopt a Chinese baby, it won't become Caucasian as soon as it enters my home - but that's what the scroll setting pretty much does for babies of white angels that arrive on my tricolour scroll..

 

 

[HeatherMarie]

TJ posted on the 2nd page, and there have been many many many posts and suggestions since then that he has not commented on, and we do not know if he has even seen. While he has directly supported a couple ideas, there is no way of knowing what ideas proposed later in the thread he may or may not support. And, while the game not having something should of course be taken into account, it does not mean that the game will never have it. At one point the game had no Teleport, or BSAs of any sort. At one point long ago you couldn't even breed from a male dragon's page, it had to be done through the female dragon's page. Back when the BSA sub-forum was still around, long ago there used to be a guideline for What Not To Suggest, and one thing was that BSAs for holiday dragons would never happen... Then we got Aegis. Just because something is not in the game at the moment doesn't mean it won't ever be. But of course it probably won't ever be if people don't speak up in support of it.

 

But anyways, yeah I'd support breeding true plus a BSA to influence to own color, if this does indeed happen. While I'd *prefer* being able to influence to any color, it seems not many people agree there.

[Fuzzbucket]

To be fair, the Aegis BSA doesn't actually affect anything except the look of a lineage.

[HeatherMarie]

Neither does the proposed SA BSA, does it? If paired with breeding true then it could possibly affect what offspring looks like, but it's still only affecting the own species' appearance, nothing more. It's not affecting actual gameplay at all.

[Fuzzbucket]

Exactly.

[Dragon_Arbock]

14 minutes ago, fuzzbucket said:

A BSA isn't "earned."

 

A BSA is absolutely earned. Otherwise you could do it from the start without the need to collect dragons to use it for you. 

 

9 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

Neither does the proposed SA BSA, does it? If paired with breeding true then it could possibly affect what offspring looks like, but it's still only affecting the own species' appearance, nothing more. It's not affecting actual gameplay at all.

Half of the lasting appeal and gameplay is lineage building, so it does affect the game in some way.

And hey, maybe a BSA will never happen at all, because you are right, Holidays aren't supposed to have a BSA. Granted, Aegis, but I'm not sure why they have one to begin with if it does so little (expect screw with lineages cause people can change them whenever). 

[Fuzzbucket]

Given that Aegis can change themselves why shouldn't angels ?

[Dragon_Arbock]

@fuzzbucket The Aegis were designed that way. You wanna let people change their SAs to whatever they want now? Sure, have at it, but I'm sure it will create just as many angry people as happy people. Anyone who built lineages with them would see their work destroyed. I haven't, I'd be happy to change my SAs. But a lot of other people wouldn't.

Not to mention there's a whole thread where people take an oath not to change their Aegis for that purpose, and anyone complaining about not wanting to work with others definitely will have a bad time. 

[LibbyLishly]

2 hours ago, Ruby Eyes said:

 

That's all I have to add. My idea stands, and so far, I've seen it mostly shouted down by a few people, and others liked it. That's the way this goes.

 

It's still my personal favorite. Cutest, simplest, lots of holiday cheer.

 

2 hours ago, Marie19R said:

Wow, so much drama going on. Why do people seem to assume they know what can and can't happen in this game? No one knows that except TJ, and so far in this thread TJ has *not* shot down any of the suggestions that are being discussed. It's frustrating when people who have no actual influence on the site act like they can shoot down suggestions just because they don't like them.

 

Personally I think having an SA hatchling able to influence it's own wing-color is completely logical, especially if explained by using their Elemental Affinity of Ice to make the feathers change color through temperature, since apparently that's how gender is influenced. Seems simple enough to me. But it seems like most people don't like that for some reason.

 

I'm still of the opinion that wing-color should simply stay scroll-coded and this suggestion shouldn't happen at all, but I'm still here trying to figure out what would be the best implementation if it does happen. Pairing "breeding true" with an adult-SA BSA seems to be the most popular option, but I still do not like the BSA-option only being able to influence to scroll color. Being able to influence to the adult's own color would be much better, since at least that way after the first year or two you'd have the ability to influence to any color you wanted.

I very much agree with all of this other than the fact that I actively want to be able to get all the colors and do think it ought to become possible one way or another.  Probably my least favorite idea is for SA eggs to breed true to the mother, as it loses a large part of the unique heritage of the breed, potential future CB acquisitions notwithstanding. As I've repeatedly stated, I'll take pretty much anything, but within that I have a hierarchy of preferences.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I really fail to see how breeding true 'ruins' them, when using a BSA to change them results in the same outcome of them not being scroll-locked. 

The only thing that would ruin the spirit of the breed was if new CBs aren't locked.

[Fuzzbucket]

We can surely agree to differ.

[Nerei]

How about a BSA like the Aegis which allows users to change the coloration of an adult, but with permanent results? Cannot be utilized over a week after maturation, meaning lineages will not be effected.

[Dragon_Arbock]

4 minutes ago, Niyaka said:

How about a BSA like the Aegis which allows users to change the coloration of an adult, but with permanent results? Cannot be utilized over a week after maturation, meaning lineages will not be effected.

I still feel this is a tad strong, but at least it would be an adult and not a hatchling doing it.

Wonder how to explain that existing SAs can't do it, but at least if only new ones can do it, it can't break anything.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Dragon_Arbock

[Nerei]

3 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

I still feel this is a tad strong, but at least it would be an adult and not a hatchling doing it.

Wonder how to explain that existing SAs can't do it, but at least if only new ones can do it, it can't break anything.

 

I don't feel any explanation would be required other than that it would not disrupt lineages. In-game, perhaps older snow angels are just satisfied with their accustomed appearance.

 

I've got to ask though, whatever do you mean by too strong?

Edited November 27, 2017 by Niyaka

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Again I'm fine with anything except alternating years or completely random results.

 

My personal preference is that SAs breed true but hatchies can be influenced by adult SAs to the SAs color. 

 

@Marie19R temperature influencing gender is a real world thing for some reptiles, whereas I don't think feather development is (although I guess you could apply the same logic). Personally I'd fancy an adopt BSA either works by ~magic~ or by SA adults guiding the hatchies to eat foods that help influence feather development. Our scroll's "normal" color shows what foods are most common in the area. Heck, maybe it's a combo of both! Note that this has no actual bearing on what suggestions I think work, it's just fun to puzzle over ^^

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Niyaka I mean the BSA has no 'cost' to use- like if you want to influence or incubate, fertility, etc.. the cost is having an adult dragon with the BSA, that isn't the dragon you're using it on, then that action needs real time to cool down That's all.

[Nerei]

3 minutes ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

@Niyaka I mean the BSA has no 'cost' to use- like if you want to influence or incubate, fertility, etc.. the cost is having an adult dragon with the BSA, that isn't the dragon you're using it on, then that action needs real time to cool down That's all.

 

The difference here is that the only benefit of this BSA is purely aesthetic. It is also irreversible and has no impact on gameplay. To me at least, it seems reasonable for SAs to use magic to decide how they'd like to look, without any need for input from another breed.

[High Lord November]

I don't see why it couldn't just be that CB eggs picked up are limited to one colour per scroll, but past that offspring maintains its parent's colours regardless of who's scroll they're on. I'm also personally ok with how it is currently. It's nice to not always be able to choose what you get - I really didn't like the white-winged SA at first, but I've come to really appreciate it and think of it as mine.

[Dragon_Arbock]

Just now, Niyaka said:

 

The difference here is that the only benefit of this BSA is purely aesthetic. It is also irreversible and has no impact on gameplay. To me at least, it seems reasonable for SAs to use magic to decide how they'd like to look, without any need for input from another breed.

Well, if it's adults I can sorta understand it. Hatchlings using it was not something I would think them capable of- and it'd be weird if hatchlings could change, but not adults.

 

@High Lord November And My problem with SAs is even if the variant I have is not my favorite, the sprite is still nice- but I can't lineage build with them at all the way they are now. Any nice Gold or White-wing I touch is ruined by my scroll.

[Jazeki]

50 minutes ago, Niyaka said:

How about a BSA like the Aegis which allows users to change the coloration of an adult, but with permanent results? Cannot be utilized over a week after maturation, meaning lineages will not be effected.

I'd be okay with this on any 2017 cb or 2017-bred snow angels. I also want to emphasize that I don't want the option to retroactively go back and change older ones.

[olympe]

Well, I once came up with a (semi-)logical explanation for how an "Adopt" BSA for Snow Angels could work.

Assume that the coloration of the feathers is influenced by pheromones. Yes, pheromones. Each type exudes the pheromones that correspond with their respective wing color.

(Our first Snow Angels colored a certain way due to chance - because, well, probably the environment (= our scroll) favored a certain coloration.)

Now, if an egg gets "adopted" by an adult Snow Angel (and snuggled and kept warm and be cared for by the very same surrogate mother), the adult would ooze its own pheromones all over the egg, thereby influencing the coloration of the hatchling inside that egg.

 

Even breeding true could be partially explained with this mechanism - if the mother laying the egg rubs some of her (pheromone-loaded) scent onto the egg. 

[Fuzzbucket]

18 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

I'd be okay with this on any 2017 cb or 2017-bred snow angels. I also want to emphasize that I don't want the option to retroactively go back and change older ones.

Oh god yes, I agree with this. Absolutely no backsies. Even though my gut suddenly says mine could be WHITE after all !

[Sazandora]

1 hour ago, Niyaka said:

How about a BSA like the Aegis which allows users to change the coloration of an adult, but with permanent results? Cannot be utilized over a week after maturation, meaning lineages will not be effected.

Seconding this.

[Dragon_Arbock]

I think this can go both ways- if you want to explain it by 'magic' then only adults should be able to do that because their magic is much stronger and more controlled than a hatchling's.

If you want to explain it by logic or science, then it's something the adults do to stimulate a change in the hatchlings. Either way the BSA would only be usable by an adult, it's just a question of if the target is the adult itself, or a hatchling/egg in its care.

 

I think an adult using a BSA on another growing thing is still more likely to get implemented than a self-targeting BSA, but we'll have to see.

[LibbyLishly]

1 hour ago, Niyaka said:

How about a BSA like the Aegis which allows users to change the coloration of an adult, but with permanent results? Cannot be utilized over a week after maturation, meaning lineages will not be effected.

I'd be happy with that.