Snow Angel Breed

[Fuzzbucket]

11 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

I don't really want a non-holiday breed to have control over how snow angel colors work. To me, snow angels and other Xmas  dragons have pretty powerful magic that a regular dragon couldn't compete  with. Also, while the idea of letting people influence their snowbutt's colors from the get-go sounds neat, it kind of ruins it for everyone else who had their colors decided for them by their scroll. As you all know, I'm in favor of the initial CB snow angel being the scroll locked color and then all other adults carry the ability to influence their colors as well. So you can influence to the scroll color or the colors of the mom/other adults as wanted. Of course, that's if we go with an adult bsa.

 

 

This, a bit. I do think CBs should stay scroll tied. Cuz HISTORY and TRADITION. There is a place for that stuff.

[olympe]

Personally, I'm fine with that, too.

I'd also be fine with only being able to influence an egg towards your scroll color, but I'm afraid that might be too complicated for TJ's liking. ("I used my tri-colored Snow Angel to influence a Snow Angel egg - not that egg turned into a white-tipped adult. Why?" Trust me, it's gonna happen.)

[Jazeki]

3 minutes ago, olympe said:

Personally, I'm fine with that, too.

I'd also be fine with only being able to influence an egg towards your scroll color, but I'm afraid that might be too complicated for TJ's liking. ("I used my tri-colored Snow Angel to influence a Snow Angel egg - not that egg turned into a white-tipped adult. Why?" Trust me, it's gonna happen.)

I'd be fine with that, too. Really, I'm sure that whatever happens with snow angels is gonna come with a lot of questions. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

I don't care about CBs either way. Having all three as CB would be nice, but I can understand the 'tradition' part of it too. My main goal is to be able to pick up lineage eggs and now have them be immediately ruined cause of my default scroll color.

Still gonna say no to the hatchling 'play in  snow BSA'. Not sure why people keep saying 'oh Nebulas pick their own color as hatchlings' when that's not actually a thing we have any control over. If you want the hatchlings.  And I only see it being brought up by people who don't want to wait a year to have adults of every color. This game is the king of waiting games. I've sure people don't like having to wait years to finish a 3rd or 4th gen lineage either, but you can live with it. It'll be much better than what we have now and I think people fail to see that.

[Fuzzbucket]

If there is to be a way to pick wing colour, whatever it is (and I don't actually CARE what way it is !) I can't see any reason at all for it to be one colour per year.

[Dragon_Arbock]

@fuzzbucket It wouldn't be one color per year, it would be if you have no adults, or only have one adult color your first year (like most people will have), that's the only color you would be able to 'influence' them to. But everyone's at the same disadvantage here, so I see no issue.

[Jazeki]

1 hour ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

@fuzzbucket It wouldn't be one color per year, it would be if you have no adults, or only have one adult color your first year (like most people will have), that's the only color you would be able to 'influence' them to. But everyone's at the same disadvantage here, so I see no issue.

This is true. I think if people have incubate and can pick up snow angels early in the season, those could grow up and influence new adults to be different colors. And it's not like anyone would be at an advantage because you can't breed a second batch.

 

 The only suggestion of one per year, which I think Fuzz was maybe referring to, was TJ's suggestion to alternate scroll colors per year. But that doesn't have to do with influencing. 

Edited November 26, 2017 by Jazeki

[HeatherMarie]

Hmm. Okay, responding to the ideas in the latest posts... I still really like the idea of the hatchling being able to influence it's own wing colors, but I see not many others like that, and that's fine. I would be fine with SAs breeding true *and* having SA adults able to influence, but I do *not* want the influence to be limited to scroll-color. That really seems needlessly restrictive... If we are going to change such a huge mechanic in the first place, why change it in a way that will frustrate so many people and really not help much at all the first year? If I grab an egg with a gold-winged parent, but my scroll is coded for gold-wings, that means I can't actually influence it at all? What a waste. If we are going to assume that adult SAs have the ability to influence wing color, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have the ability to influence wing color to any of the three options.

[Jazeki]

1 minute ago, Marie19R said:

Hmm. Okay, responding to the ideas in the latest posts... I still really like the idea of the hatchling being able to influence it's own wing colors, but I see not many others like that, and that's fine. I would be fine with SAs breeding true *and* having SA adults able to influence, but I do *not* want the influence to be limited to scroll-color. That really seems needlessly restrictive... If we are going to change such a huge mechanic in the first place, why change it in a way that will frustrate so many people and really not help much at all the first year? If I grab an egg with a gold-winged parent, but my scroll is coded for gold-wings, that means I can't actually influence it at all? What a waste. If we are going to assume that adult SAs have the ability to influence wing color, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have the ability to influence wing color to any of the three options.

I don't mind the hatchie one, but as others have noted, it has a limited window of time. Also, the influence to scroll color seems to be that if you pick up any other color wings' offspring, the babies will automatically become those colors unless you influence it to be your scroll color. Then it's not so restrictive. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

See, the original idea I thought was that an adult of x color can influence an egg to be that color. Limiting it to only be your scroll color, like some have suggested, is almost defeating the purpose (and will still cut you out from doing 'alternating' lineages without trading). For CBs, that would be a different story, but I'm all for as much control as possible.

[Fuzzbucket]

33 minutes ago, Jazeki said:

This is true. I think if people have incubate and can pick up snow angels early in the season, those could grow up and influence new adults to be different colors. And it's not like anyone would be at an advantage because you can't breed a second batch.

 

 The only suggestion of one per year, which I think Fuzz was maybe referring to, was TJ's suggestion to alternate scroll colors per year. But that doesn't have to do with influencing. 

 

That was exactly what I was referring to.  Since TJ has the CONTROL I thought it was worth mentioning again !

 

11 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

Hmm. Okay, responding to the ideas in the latest posts... I still really like the idea of the hatchling being able to influence it's own wing colors, but I see not many others like that, and that's fine. I would be fine with SAs breeding true *and* having SA adults able to influence, but I do *not* want the influence to be limited to scroll-color. That really seems needlessly restrictive... If we are going to change such a huge mechanic in the first place, why change it in a way that will frustrate so many people and really not help much at all the first year? If I grab an egg with a gold-winged parent, but my scroll is coded for gold-wings, that means I can't actually influence it at all? What a waste. If we are going to assume that adult SAs have the ability to influence wing color, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't have the ability to influence wing color to any of the three options.

 

I'd certainly prefer that. And I'm OK with a hatchling BSA - but I'm not sure about one that it can use on itself.

[HeatherMarie]

I would *much* prefer an adult to be able to influence to their own color instead of restricted to scroll-color. I mean, I'd like it if they could influence to *any* color, but influencing to their own color is a lot better then just scroll-color. Scroll-color only is indeed fairly restrictive, since it will make it impossible to make successful alternating-color lineages unless cooperating with multiple people with different scroll-colors, and isn't that why some of the other suggestions have been shot down? As I said, if I got an egg with gold-winged parent, and my scroll was gold-winged coded, I could do nothing. That would be very frustrating.

[Jazeki]

@Dragon_Arbock, I was simply interpreting how it probably works.  I disagree that it's restrictive.  I dunno. Like if I picked up a 3rd gen snow whose mom was tri-color and whose grandma was white, I could influence it to be gold (my scroll) and then have all three colors in the lineage. 

[Dragon_Arbock]

@Jazeki Yeah, you could, but that's already possible under our current system. I'm referring to people who want to make alternating lineages all by themselves.I have no use for that, but other people seem to care about that.

[Jazeki]

@Dragon_Arbock This is true. I don't particularly care either, but to each their own. Either way, I am in agreement with @fuzzbucket and don't really want an alternate year wing surprise. 

[Fuzzbucket]

10 minutes ago, Marie19R said:

I would *much* prefer an adult to be able to influence to their own color instead of restricted to scroll-color. I mean, I'd like it if they could influence to *any* color, but influencing to their own color is a lot better then just scroll-color. Scroll-color only is indeed fairly restrictive, since it will make it impossible to make successful alternating-color lineages unless cooperating with multiple people with different scroll-colors, and isn't that why some of the other suggestions have been shot down? As I said, if I got an egg with gold-winged parent, and my scroll was gold-winged coded, I could do nothing. That would be very frustrating.

 

But how would you get the adult of another colour on your scroll in the first place ?

[HeatherMarie]

It'd go along with breeding-true, so you'd have to get eggs from different-colored parents and raise them to adults. Which obviously means that you probably wouldn't be able to influence much, or at all, the 1st year of this change, which is a reason I support having adults influence to *any* color, so you don't have to wait a year to have adults of different colors. But it's an option.

[Fuzzbucket]

Ah - got you, Marie. I can hack that.

[Lurhstaap]

I would like to see this happen in some form, too, but I don't think it will. I've gotten used to gold wings, but I'll always pine for tris on some level. Sigh. It just wasn't a well thought out decision imo. One of those things a designer does because they can without thinking through whether it's a good idea. 

 

With that said, it really wouldn't be that hard to make a one time change to people's scrolls. Code a page with a menu. The menu has the three options shown - tips, gold, and tri. It would say, "You may now choose your Snow Angel wing color. You get to do this ONCE EVER, so think it through!" Then you'd click on your choice and press the Confirm button. A pop-up would ask, "Are you sure?" If so, you'd hit Okay, if not, Cancel. If you hit Okay, a script runs that changes the variable on the scroll which controls the SA variant. Boom. Set it up so that a scroll that already used the page will see "You've chosen your Snow Angel alt!" And nothing else. Done. As coding jobs go, that shouldn't be that big a deal at all.

 

That, plus a Snow Angel BSA that let us collect bred examples of the other two alts, would be my ultimate DC Christmas fantasy. Buuuuut it's never going to happen. *weeps softly*

 

I will, however, be delighted to at last have CBs if the holiday biome is a thing. I like the tris best but I can work with goldwing.

[Fuzzbucket]

And there I wanted white

[angelicdragonpuppy]

@Lurhstaap TJ actually posted being open to allowing multiple wing colors in this thread not long ago (that's why discussion has been so energetic!), so it might at last be within reach!

[Ruby Eyes]

5 hours ago, Dragon_Arbock said:

Still gonna say no to the hatchling 'play in  snow BSA'. Not sure why people keep saying 'oh Nebulas pick their own color as hatchlings' when that's not actually a thing we have any control over. If you want the hatchlings.  And I only see it being brought up by people who don't want to wait a year to have adults of every color.

That has nothing to do with each other, really. Fact is, it would be *simple*, and it wouldn't need other dragons for it - only the one which you actually want to be a certain type. Everything else needs an explanation, it's not really intuitive.

 

- BSA on adult Snow Angels? Let's figure out what it does. Why does it say I have no eligible eggs/hatchies for it? Oh, it only works on Snow Angel babies, where do I get them? Oh, it's a holiday-only thing? (That's just some of the questions I'd imagine on the forums for that.)

- BSA on some other dragon: same issue as BSA on Snow Angels, really.

- Snow Angels breeding true? Yes, that's simple as almost every other dragon does that - but it disallows continuation of mixed colour lineages.

- rotating per year? Basically means waiting THREE seasons for every pure-colouring lineage you want to create. I don't see the breed winning more fans for that.

 

If you need it to be that complicated, why not leave it like it is and deal with your scroll colour, period?

[olympe]

The BSA on adult Snow Angels could be greyed out outside the breeding window +1 week (for eggs). With the helpful hint that "This BSA cannot be used at the moment.See help page for more info."

During the time frame it can be used and the player actually has at least one un-influenced Snow Angel egg on their scroll, make the BSA available. (Similar to how Summon works for Zyus.)

[Jazeki]

8 minutes ago, olympe said:

The BSA on adult Snow Angels could be greyed out outside the breeding window +1 week (for eggs). With the helpful hint that "This BSA cannot be used at the moment.See help page for more info."

During the time frame it can be used and the player actually has at least one un-influenced Snow Angel egg on their scroll, make the BSA available. (Similar to how Summon works for Zyus.)

Or it could have a disclaimer like the celestials do.

[Dragon_Arbock]

27 minutes ago, Ruby Eyes said:

That has nothing to do with each other, really. Fact is, it would be *simple*, and it wouldn't need other dragons for it - only the one which you actually want to be a certain type. Everything else needs an explanation, it's not really intuitive.

 

- BSA on adult Snow Angels? Let's figure out what it does. Why does it say I have no eligible eggs/hatchies for it? Oh, it only works on Snow Angel babies, where do I get them? Oh, it's a holiday-only thing? (That's just some of the questions I'd imagine on the forums for that.)

- BSA on some other dragon: same issue as BSA on Snow Angels, really.

- Snow Angels breeding true? Yes, that's simple as almost every other dragon does that - but it disallows continuation of mixed colour lineages.

- rotating per year? Basically means waiting THREE seasons for every pure-colouring lineage you want to create. I don't see the breed winning more fans for that.

 

If you need it to be that complicated, why not leave it like it is and deal with your scroll colour, period?

I hardly see how that's complicated at all. I'm not going to retract a suggestion when people can go to the wiki or ask another human what it does very easily (if the BSA doesn't already say what it does right on the site, which it probably would).