ANSWERED:Holidays Breed True All Year Round

[angelicdragonpuppy]

Eh, not a big fan. The holidays are crazy, yes, but it's that craziness that makes them so fun and different from DC normal. As much as I love my rosebuds and marrows, being able to get them all year round feels like it would sap a lot of the fun out of the frenzy. I'd also argue that, despite the once per year breeding, holidays are EASIER to make lineages with then a lot of other dragons because of the guaranteed breeding. I've felt far more satisfied making holiday lineages then I have with my bloody spirit ward x royal crimson attempts, that's for sure.

[Eos]

No support. I like that we have breeds with breeding seasons. I find myself to be most active during holiday breeding, hunting things in the AP, and would be very sad to lose that fun time of year entirely.

I agree with this post. I'm currently working on several dozen even gen holiday lineages, and although they are a pain -- I like the craziness of the holiday seasons. It doesn't bother me at all that they only breed true once a year.

[HeatherMarie]

I really like the holidays as they are now. But I could support this IF:

- Getting a holiday egg off-season is as rare as metallic breeding

- Multiclutches are still a thing in season

- Refusals are still turned off during the season

- All eggs produced during the season are holiday eggs

This is really the only way I can see this happening. I don't really like this idea, I personally *like* the holiday situation as it is now in pretty much every way, and I don't like the idea of being able to get holidays outside of their season. To me it completely ruins the *specialness* of the holiday breeds.

 

But if this were to happen, it would have to be a lower percent change, and multi-cluching during holidays would *have* to remain. For some (many) people the AP is their best shot at getting holiday eggs. Lets not take that away! And yes, refusals need to stay turned off during the holiday seasons.

[VixenDra]

the tiniest thing that can be easly done without anyone having anyhow valid reason to complain (I can't invent any really) would be to simply make the holidays breed true within the holiday 8 days(or 2 weeks maybe? like 15 days?) BUT without the limit of just 1 breeding a year (meaining: if you breed the holiday in the beginning of the holiday season, you can breed it again after 7 days, AND its offspring can also breed true in the year it was bred if it grew up still within the breeding season)

 

 

for my own reasons this would reduce the family breeding from up to 4 years of breeding only (for the sake of simplicity I'm skipping the 2 years of wait to get the MF couple of 2 newest breeds on the scroll) to 2 years. Still very long but not so riddiculusly long as now.

 

Also, for lineage buliding other players do, it's 2 eggs (again, 1 per clutch:() a year instead of 1 from the given dragon + 1generation further can be bred from it (instead of just getting e.g. 2gens, you can also breed the 2rd gens thom them in the same year) (I think this makes the time needed to build a lineage a half shorter, right? like 10years of breeding would change to 5?)

 

 

But again, I'm still mostly for the original suggestion of this thread +keeping the holiday season itself as it is...

Edited February 25, 2016 by VixenDra

[Darth Krande]

I was like "no way" but then I read hybrids... Hybrids would be AWESOME.

[Kovia]

Please no. This would completely remove the specialness of the three holiday seasons except for the release of the new species. I love the holidays around here since it makes for some awesome AP hunting and lots of forum activity.

 

Also, I feel like this might mess up the trading market. Can you imagine how much people would shell out for the children of CB Hollies and spriter's alts? People already freak out over those as it is.

 

I also imagine that no one would drop "valuable" eggs to the AP if they can breed their fancy holidays year-round. If you watch the lineages found in the AP thread during a holiday, it more or less explodes with reports of people finding 2Gs from prizes and spriter's alts, thanks to the multi-clutches. I can definitely see people refusing to breed their "valuable" dragons during a period of multi-clutching if they want to trade the eggs instead of having them abandoned.

[pinkgothic]

Unsurprisingly, given I suggested something similar, I would really like this! Here's what I said in the other thread:

 

I'd still love to see some kind of change to the way holiday breeding works, time-wise. This Valentine was absurdly stressful for me - so stressful that I've decided not to take most of my lineages any step further. That doesn't sound like much of a loss and indeed I'm not at all aching over the decision, but given one of the reason I bother breeding my Valentines is so that I can help others with their lineages, it seems like a bit of a shame. Now my stock won't expand by any further generations on most of the lines, because I can't fit all of them into the breeding window.

 

Two weeks would help, though I admit this isn't my favoured solution as it threatens to be a moving goalpost.

 

I really like Socky's idea for this - that holiday dragons can breed true all year 'round, like any other dragon has a chance to breed true - with the added footnote that as others have mentioned it would be nice to have a window where the offspring is guaranteed to be of the holiday variant, and multiclutches happen, though.

 

My suggestion's also grown on me by now - that holiday dragons can breed true once a year, but whenever the breeder wants to breed them - though I understand if others are less eager, since it would be a fairly radical step, and it's not quite as convenient for IOU trading as Socky's idea. (Some perhaps recurring questions are answered here.)

[VixenDra]

I don't think that breeding anytime but just once a year is an anyhow beneficial idea... it would only take away what majority is defending here: the holiday AP hunt and the other stuff. While not anyhow making working with holidays any less discouraging or painful time wise. Just that you don't have to breed them during the holidays but well, others won't breed them when YOU can hunt them...

 

And won't help me not wasting CBs and 2gens

Edited February 25, 2016 by VixenDra

[Vhale]

I've pointed this out before, but we had an extended breeding during Halloween due to the big storm hitting. it made it much easier to get lineage trading done and was very fun. So I support adding a week to the breeding season at minimum. I'm not crazy about holidays all year for selfish reasons. It's tough enough trying to get an alt out of a holiday right now. I'd hate to have a 3rd possibility in the mix.

[Lizzyluna]

I understand your problems - I was a student and I outright neglected books to hunt for '09 Valentines! - but I also like the fact holidays have a breeding season, because otherwise my scroll would be clogged for all eternity.

 

I could support the idea if the rarity of the off-season egg was really, really, really high* (all the fails would be a feast for mate hunters) and multiclutches were kept, because I like holiday walls: such abundance fills me with joy and I spend hours checking all the pretty lines.

 

 

* On Valley of Unicorns, horses from the Valentine after-event can breed true every 29th of the month, but the % of successful breedings is quite low.

[VixenDra]

* On Valley of Unicorns, horses from the Valentine after-event can breed true every 29th of the month, but the % of successful breedings is quite low.

Maybe that's the idea for a sollution?

Like e.g. Christmas holidays can breed true on 25th of each month, Valentines on 14th of each month and Halloweens on 31st(or 30th) of each month!

This would be just perfect!

So very easy to avoid if you don't want to get an out-of-season holiday (you simply don't breed them on those particular days of the month if you want to get a non-holiday) and at those particular days holidays could have a 50%(or 25%) chance of breeding true? Or a bit lower but some reasonable chance (definitely prefer not of the Golds and Silvers, really... they refuse to breed true - even if PBed - for ages:().

 

This is exactly what would be a good compromise I beleive, I can see noone suffering (ofc as long as the regular holiday seasons themselves don't change and still have the no refusals, multiclutches and stuff). And this would even add more of "the unique" of the breeding mechanics for the holidays some players value so much!

[MadameZ]

I never knew I would say this, but I am against this idea. This would take away the uniqueness of these pretty dragons. Yes, I know it is annoying to wait a whole year to breed them, but would we really like to see heartsy dragons all mixed up with halloween dragons in the AP? What would Snow Angel dragons look like in the AP in the middle of the summer? Oh yes, to those in the Southern Hemisphere, that would be exactly like that. If holiday dragons are available year-round, then it would remove all the hype and the fun in the event seasons. Please people, show a little bit of patience. Oh yes, patience is a virtue.

[SullenCat]

+1 support to the OP's suggestion.

[pederino]

I am pretty sure you guys know my position, so I will just say why:

-Will ease the stress that comes with the holidays.

-Will give more variety. Spriters can easily take the dual gender valentines or wolidays if they want to, or there can be hybrids of holidays with normal dragons or even another holiday dragon.

-As some people have said, they may dont want or can be on DC during the holidays, so this could help with that issue.

-Can adapt to more diverse playstyles than the actual mechanic.

 

Of course, there should be limits or "rules":

-Outside of season, holidays will only breed true as very uncommon, and no multiclutches.

-There should be at least a week for each holiday in which they always breed true, they can have multiclutches, and never refuse another dragon.

-If breeding holiday x holiday, the chance to get one breed must be 50/50, regardless if its in or out season.

 

Thats it, at least for the moment.

[Tawanda001]

I also imagine that no one would drop "valuable" eggs to the AP if they can breed their fancy holidays year-round. If you watch the lineages found in the AP thread during a holiday, it more or less explodes with reports of people finding 2Gs from prizes and spriter's alts, thanks to the multi-clutches. I can definitely see people refusing to breed their "valuable" dragons during a period of multi-clutching if they want to trade the eggs instead of having them abandoned.

Valid point.

Maybe that's the idea for a sollution?

Like e.g. Christmas holidays can breed true on 25th of each month, Valentines on 14th of each month and Halloweens on 31st(or 30th) of each month!

This would be just perfect!

I do very much like this as a compromise if the multi-clutch is kept.

Not to mention it would probably give a little bump to site traffic as people hit the AP hoping to stumble on older or rare holidays they can't breed themselves.

 

[Obscure_Trash]

IF this were to happen - and I'm not keen - would the "no holiday refusals in season" hold up ? If not - I am 1000% against, as that is SO useful.

Well, that's another possible road split. (Something I don't mind leaving up to TJ, personally.)

 

If we go the way of holidays being able to for sure breed during their holiday, it would make sense refusals are also turned off. In the spirit of the holiday and all that jazz.

 

But if they're left alone or TJ likes this idea for the more simplicity it offers, then refusals may just be something that, like with all other breedings, we have to deal with. On the plus side, if holidays aren't restricted to breeding like rares, breeding replacement mates would be easier. Of course, I'm all for removing refusals completely, so... xP

 

How would this work with Holiday x Holiday? Someone mentioned have them work like Prize x Prize, in which case I DO NOT want.  Prize x Prize only ever produces one color or the other if the same type.  And I hate that. 

Holiday x holiday can already produce both mates when bred in season, so I don't see why that should change. As well, I don't think it makes sense to change since there are mixed sib clutches already in existence. JMO

 

Without the holiday wall the holiday dragon will behave exactly like the other dragons and I can foresee people asking for CB golds and xenos for a simple holiday egg.

 

If holidays bred like rares and didn't multiclutch, then yeah, they'd trade for rares. But I personally favor them breeding common - uncommon. Breeding like rares is just one option.

 

What about one month of holiday breedibg instead of one week? Multiclutch limite could be fixed at minimum 2 eggs and max 3 every time you breed a couple of dragons. You could breed them 4 times in a month, allowing more chances to trade your best eggs and still having the right to keep it.

That's kinda what the change how holiday breeding works thread is suggesting/discussing.

 

I was like "no way" but then I read hybrids... Hybrids would be AWESOME.

 

I'm glad I was able to sway you with that possibility. =p (I got really excited for this too as I typed it out, lol.)

 

Also, I feel like this might mess up the trading market. Can you imagine how much people would shell out for the children of CB Hollies and spriter's alts? People already freak out over those as it is.

 

Again, I think this depends on how they breed. If they breed like common - uncommon, as I favor, or if multiclutches during holidays are still a possibility, as many in this thread seem to favor, I don't see this being much of a problem.

 

Alternatively, perhaps having more things to spread the rare wants out in between would help the market?

 

I also imagine that no one would drop "valuable" eggs to the AP if they can breed their fancy holidays year-round.

 

People said that about rares, too, when teleport was introduced, yet I've dropped plenty and seen some myself. As someone who does 99% of my hunting in the AP, I certainly can't tell a difference from before and after teleport.

 

Also not sure why anyone would give up all their other projects just because we can breed holidays more often. We don't just give up breeding other dragons just because a new one is released. If anything, I think more pretties would be dropped to the AP more often.

 

Yes, I know it is annoying to wait a whole year to breed them, but would we really like to see heartsy dragons all mixed up with halloween dragons in the AP? What would Snow Angel dragons look like in the AP in the middle of the summer?

 

Simple aesthetics seems like a silly reason to reject this. =p

 

Hearts aren't just a seasonal thing. They're also a pretty annual symbol of love. =p

 

If holiday dragons are available year-round, then it would remove all the hype and the fun in the event seasons.

 

I highly doubt this, considering I am not suggesting we remove holiday events or new holiday releases. Things which, I personally think, create more actual hype than breeding does. Breeding just makes the trade section busier.

 

~

 

I'll update the first post with some of the things that have been brought up here this weekend. For now, gotta shower so I can get to bed!

Edited February 26, 2016 by SockPuppet Strangler

[HeatherMarie]

I'm warming up to this suggestion more and more, especially after newly falling in love with Heartstealers this V-day. I would love to be able to get them year-round and grow my collection, even if they were to breed as rares, I'm able to breed a gold once a month or so, so that wouldn't bother me.

[Tecca]

I do not support this idea. The limited time that holidays can be bred is what makes them special to me, more so than rares like metals or prizes. The excitement when you finally get to breed/catch holidays after a year of waiting since last time just can't be beat. And it's amazing to see high-gen holiday checkers that you know took 4-5 years of dedication for the breeder to create. More of a good thing is not always better.

[bluesonic1]

Overall, I don't support this idea. I appreciate that people like lineage building with certain holidays (I'm one of them, being in love with several designs), and part of me would like to make this a reality. However, the majority of me loves the fact that certain dragons can only breed during certain periods of the year; it adds interesting and different mechanics to the game without making the game itself ridiculously difficult.

 

I feel like if this mechanic was removed, it would not only detract from the excitement surrounding the holiday season, but also work towards a simple (and in my opinion, bland) general gameplay for DC as a whole.

[XiziX]

Don't Support.

 

For reasons already stated. I would prefer we kept the Holiday dragons as they are. Holiday dragons. What's the point of them if they are just like all other dragons and available all year round?

 

Rubs me the wrong way.

[Obscure_Trash]

I don't get this "being special" thing.

 

I don't think it makes them special. I think it makes them boring.

 

Tbh, I consider holiday releases the annoying stop gate that means lack of dragon releases for dragons I can actually enjoy collecting and breeding. Yes, they're very pretty, but they're kinda like leetle trees in that manner. Special to grab but then mostly just scroll decoration.

Yeah, I love my tea x lurker line, but I will always, always prize my common lineages that I've spent far more time and effort on more than my holiday line. Because I can build them more consistently. They keep my attention. I feel like I've actually put time into them. They are far more the product of dedication than my holiday line is, and therefore I am more proud of them.

 

Besides, cbs would still be limited and drop only once. I think that makes these dragons special enough.

[VixenDra]

I don't get this "being special" thing.

 

I don't think it makes them special. I think it makes them boring.

 

Tbh, I consider holiday releases the annoying stop gate that means lack of dragon releases for dragons I can actually enjoy collecting and breeding. Yes, they're very pretty, but they're kinda like leetle trees in that manner. Special to grab but then mostly just scroll decoration.

Yeah, I love my tea x lurker line, but I will always, always prize my common lineages that I've spent far more time and effort on more than my holiday line. Because I can build them more consistently. They keep my attention. I feel like I've actually put time into them. They are far more the product of dedication than my holiday line is, and therefore I am more proud of them.

-a billion times all THIS!

I personally in almost all cases hate the way dragons are 'unique/special' in DC:/ These 'unique' features almost always make the 'unique' breeds/types useless and/or frustrating compared to regular dragons... +ruining the goals you could have in mind when starting playing the game. The only exeption are BSAs...

For me only the multiclutches make holidays special and cool at the same time. Multiclutches is that rare unique feature that is not frustrating/making the dragon closer to useless/destroying the fun.

 

 

 

for the suggestion:

Full SUPPORT

 

 

From these I'm against the red and not really in favour of orange, and most desired in green:

There are some further ways to break this down:

-Holidays can still breed multiclutches during their holiday season where holiday eggs are guaranteed for pairs that produce (spreading the joy during the season and all that)

-Holiday multiclutches go away and holidays are only marked with a limited time release and (possible) event

-Holiday multiclutches go away but holidays breed true during the holiday season

 

Another possibility is that the chances of producing a holiday out of season is low (but not rare/impossible). This would perhaps be the best route to go if people would like to keep holiday multiclutches as a thing. If people are okay with doing away with multiclutches, then chances of producing a holiday out of season could be higher.

 

As for how refusals could be handled, there are a few ways to do this as well:

-Remove refusals completely, negating this conversation

-Keep the mechanic to have refusals reversed during the typical holiday season

-Have refusals reversed all year long (probably makes the post sense if the outcome of a holiday during the year is low)

-Have them react like other dragons with the typical possibility of refusal

 

 

And just in case, I'm underlining: all holidayXholiday (including the same type of holiday paired) can still produce holiday offspring all year round.

 

I'm really for once a pair is bred during the holiday season(=refusal reversal/refusal turned off), the refusal for this pairing is not to come when the pair is bred out of season... This change would be awesome and making sense. I've seen it quite a few times - players shocked and wondering why their couple who bred in holiday season now got a refusal out of a sudden. If refusals in the game are not to vanish, holidays would have a refusal turn off ability once a year during their respective breeding season.

Edited March 12, 2016 by VixenDra

[bluesonic1]

I don't get this "being special" thing.

 

I don't think it makes them special. I think it makes them boring.

 

Tbh, I consider holiday releases the annoying stop gate that means lack of dragon releases for dragons I can actually enjoy collecting and breeding. Yes, they're very pretty, but they're kinda like leetle trees in that manner. Special to grab but then mostly just scroll decoration.

Yeah, I love my tea x lurker line, but I will always, always prize my common lineages that I've spent far more time and effort on more than my holiday line. Because I can build them more consistently. They keep my attention. I feel like I've actually put time into them. They are far more the product of dedication than my holiday line is, and therefore I am more proud of them.

 

Besides, cbs would still be limited and drop only once. I think that makes these dragons special enough.

Obviously I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not entirely about them being special. As I said previously, part me would actually like this to be a reality because several of my favourite dragons are holiday ones. But for me, the overall gameplay of DC is more important than my favourite dragons list.

 

It's kinda like the age old debate of "old school" video games vs "modern day" ones I keep hearing of; what do you prefer? One that's easy to play, where everything is catered to you with minimal effort, or do you like to play a game that you recognise has challenge to it and while that annoys you on some level, you relish in playing anyway due to rising to the game's challenge?

 

All this aside, what about respecting the wishes of the artists for the various holiday dragons? The majority of them submitted the designs knowing what it would mean for the dragon, much in the same way many people pick their designs to be "rare" in the Dragon/Completed Requests board(s). Personally I'm on the fence on this and have no opinion- I'm literally just stating it in case others haven't considered the notion yet. Not to mention, artists aside, what do holiday dragons mean to TJ in terms of DC's lore? Again, no side picking from me, just putting ideas out there (and this is particularly directed at the post above me and similar ones that previous to this that "hate the way dragons are 'unique/special' in DC").

Edited March 12, 2016 by bluesonic1

[Fuzzbucket]

Obviously I can't speak for others, but for me, it's not entirely about them being special. As I said previously, part me would actually like this to be a reality because several of my favourite dragons are holiday ones. But for me, the overall gameplay of DC is more important than my favourite dragons list.

 

It's kinda like the age old debate of "old school" video games vs "modern day" ones I keep hearing of; what do you prefer? One that's easy to play, where everything is catered to you with minimal effort, or do you like to play a game that you recognise has challenge to it and while that annoys you on some level, you relish in playing anyway due to rising to the game's challenge?

 

All this aside, what about respecting the wishes of the artists for the various holiday dragons? The majority of them submitted the designs knowing what it would mean for the dragon, much in the same way many people pick their designs to be "rare" in the Dragon/Completed Requests board(s). Personally I'm on the fence on this and have no opinion- I'm literally just stating it in case others haven't considered the notion yet. Not to mention, artists aside, what do holiday dragons mean to TJ in terms of DC's lore? Again, no side picking from me, just putting ideas out there.

I'm with bluesonic. It's not the specialfulness, it's the game mechanic.

 

And I would fight to the death against losing the guaranteed eggs in season (no refusals) and the multiclutches.

 

It's actually not that much worse than waiting for seasonals or for the RIGHT lunar. And actually - for those who remember the year when winter eggs simply didn't happen.... but we lived through it.

[Fiona]

Since bluesonic brought it up let's think about the issue of the spriters' wishes, ok? While it's true that they were sprited with a certain expectation about the mechanics, as artists we need to come to grips with the fact that our art is being used as an asset in a game which is not static. Mechanics change periodically. They must if the game is to grow and flourish. I don't think we should have the luxury of vetoing a change in mechanics just because it changes a breed we envisioned.

 

Some of you are going to recognize that this is a change of mind for me. When the idea of re-releasing old holidays came up I was completely opposed, but have come to understand since then that changing things that we once considered "set in stone" may be best for the game. We need to accept that what's best for the game takes precedence over our personal attachment to a breed we envisioned.

 

Therefore, I don't personally think "respecting the artists' wishes" is a valid argument against this idea. It should come down to "Is this best for the long term health of the game?"

 

This doesn't mean I'm for the suggestion. It also doesn't mean I'm against it. I simply haven't made up my mind yet. But while I appreciate the idea of respecting artists' wishes for the breeds we created, I think it's best to consider only whether this suggested change is better for the game than the way we do it now.