Make CB Golds **slighty** less rare

[Tehya Faye]

Well, I mean that when the rare you want shows up you'll be more likely to get it because the competition is lower. Mostly, anyway. Inevitably there will be one breed that's more popular than the others. This has the effect of making it even easier to get the others of equal rarity, but it's just transferring the Gold problem onto another breed. This is fine as long as we're regularly introducing new rare breeds, but if we aren't then it really won't help at all.

 

Edit: If we aren't introducing rare breeds regularly I think just one new rare breed will be best. We'll double the chances of an uber rare showing up for people, and the popularity of Golds and the new breed should go back and forth as new dragons come out that look good with one or the other. I think two Gold-level rares would help, but more than that will just necessitate more and more rares. I could live with either, really (or just a general increase in Golds).

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Syphoneira]

I just think that the reduced strain on Golds will make it more likely for people to catch any of the new rares. It'll reduce the difficulty of catching rares, making the rares more available for lineage building and collections. Increasing the rate at which Golds are produced will work just fine too, I just don't think TJ would do that.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid that ANY new dragon is going to be desperately wanted by everyone - and typically in sufficient quantity for 3rd gens - and far more would be wanted by people who want to trade.

 

New Rares would cause the same sort of ruckus as did the Prizes, only scripters can't go after those as they could a Cave Release.

 

We'd probably never even see them vanish - and the people hunting the new rares would certainly not miss any opportunity of picking up any and all other CB metallics encountered as well.

 

Many of the eggs collected by active traders would likely not be raised but promptly traded for 2nd gen Prizes, future 2nd gen Hollies or whatever, so they wouldn't be egg-locked as thoroughly or for the time we would, or perhaps at all - because everyone would want the new rares, and plenty of them.

 

The feeding frenzy would be something else, and those of us not able to catch even CB Golds wouldn't have a chance.

 

An increase in the same CB Golds and Silvers would likely produce MUCH better effects, because a number of people have maxed out or eventually will on the numbers they have of these and would be looking for something else, maybe a batch of Common new Release hatchies or some such thing that they DO want/need.

 

This would also alleviate, rather than worsen current issues.

 

But I do agree that it doesn't seem likely that TJ would go along with this.

 

If the biomes moved and there was some way to prevent cheating, we'd probably all still have a chance at catching our own whatevers once in a while, but until and unless these issues can be addressed, I firmly believe that we're better off not worsening the problems we have.

[DarkEternity]

It would be cool if they had a captcha-only biome.

Solve a captcha, unlock random minutes/seconds.

Imagine Lagmonster eggies *_* I still wish we could catch them...

 

Never gonna happen though and logistics would annoy everyone

Edited May 27, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Tehya Faye]

Captcha-only biome would be interesting...though I'm worried it might be too heavily hunted. It wouldn't really be the same as the old cave because people looking for commons/uncommons would rather hunt the regular biomes, same with those looking for those dragons that are kinda rare but not generally scripter targets. So it'd just be a place for those hunting Golds/Silvers, and it might be difficult for anybody without a great computer and connection to get anything. I can manage on this old computer surprisingly well, but in there? Nope. I get nothing.

[DarkEternity]

Captcha-only biome would be interesting...though I'm worried it might be too heavily hunted. It wouldn't really be the same as the old cave because people looking for commons/uncommons would rather hunt the regular biomes, same with those looking for those dragons that are kinda rare but not generally scripter targets. So it'd just be a place for those hunting Golds/Silvers, and it might be difficult for anybody without a great computer and connection to get anything. I can manage on this old computer surprisingly well, but in there? Nope. I get nothing.

Nah I'm thinking more things like those eclipse dragons I think I saw ages ago. The beautiful sprited black/silver and black/gold ones. *dreams*

 

Like Mirage Island, kinda?

[Tehya Faye]

Oh! I get what you mean now. That would be pretty neat.

[DarkEternity]

There's a lot of pretty dragons on the completed list like ADP's guardian archangels, Fantasy, Double-Winged, Austral and Ne'Enden Easterns that I guess could be released as rare but not rare (as long as the artist wanted something like that pls don't kill me) because they are impossible to see because of connection speed, but rather you have to fulfill certain criteria to see them is what I guess I mean.

 

It's sad to see those dragons there for years and years... '-' I've wanted those dragons for years and years and years.

 

Wow that went completely off topic.

Edited May 27, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Tehya Faye]

It'd be both amazing and frustrating. But the effect is that randomly people will find themselves with this hard to get dragon without having to worry about their technical limitations.

[AnanoKimi]

Why not have both? if the ratios are adjusted or their rarity dropped, why not still add more rares. We saw what having one shiny coveted thing distributed only one a year did. It caused tremendous strain. They were given in tiny numbers, they breed uberly poor, and everyone wanted one.

 

Something similar is happening with things like golds and the such. Adding more rares might also devalue some ofthe current rares we have. Something better and shinier will win out over something old. The more rares are added in the more people will become to shift into liking more than one rare and possibly more than two or three into liking 5 or 10 or 15 causing them to spread out and try to get a bit of everything.

 

Also if rares are added regularly, not once a year, not twice a year, not 3 hiccup breeds that are rare but not really, I mean regular once every two to three months a rare is released, then attention is adverted.

 

You all make it sound like scripters and cheaters have like 50 different scrolls and more, that they are the sole cause of all the issues and adding anything else is only adding more into their hands. Which isnt the case. You all also make it sound like adding more rares is the equivalent of the once a year prize raffle which is also not the case. I don't want to add in prize status rares. I want to add in maybe red or brown copper status rares.

 

Again, adjust ratios/rarity to make sure rares in general drop more frequently

Add in a better method of biome movement (5 minute ap dump or percentage AP dump and the end of the hour)

Add in a more consistent amount of rares along side normal releases to keep all theshiny hunters busy while the eggs that slipout of their fingers go to the scrolls of everyone else.

And lets have the shop with reasonable prices in accordance to their set rarity not percieved rarity.

 

Also, Syphoneria, I think the userbase can handle a little chaos if it benefits them. With regularly released rares, the disheartned hunters might start to notice a shift in tides and may just start hunting again.

 

The reason I and many are disheartened is because

1) There are barely any rares to help meet the demand for something shiny and challenging so their constant demand and allure makes them hard to get by regular users with half decent connections and such. 2) With everyone else getting the shinies for wanna be prize trades, the userbase feels like they cant catch up and half blame the shiny hunters, half blame prizes/prize owners. 3) As such they either give up and hunt for what they can or leave.

 

We can fix all of those. Again, the more rares there are, the more they start to devalue as more people manage to get their hands on them, even prize owners. So they become less of a trade fodder thing that you seems to obsessed with Syph. If we start to devalue them just a smidge making them slowly more accessible to everyone, then they loose that "trade fodder" value and people will slowly start to catch up.

 

Also should these new rares be introduced and their ratios/rarity shifted to become a bit more accessible, I would imagine their price would reflect that. Instead of taking months to obtain it might take a few weeks to at most a month to reflect not only their new accessibility to the rest of DC but to also relfect that its kind of stupid to make obtaining one of lets say 20-30 new rare breeds take months.

 

So a regular release or introduction of rares to DC would potentially:

-shift focus onto another breed momentarily Allowing other rare breeds to be obtained easier

-increase the availability of all breeds of rares once the community settles down.

-keep the community on their toes for the next rare release meaning egg locking with many rares will hopefully happen less.

-Egglocking for the first few weeks with the new rare breed or a mix of new and old rare breeds means less for them more for us.

-"trade Fodder" issue would diminish since as more rares are added along side regular releases, the diversity in rare breeds means that one breed now doesnt attract all. What could have attracted a swarm of interested players now attracts a smaller crowd since each individual player will now also put in new percieved value to the new breeds.

 

With that last part, with more focus spread out amongst different breeds, instead of everyone wanting only the golds, you will have those who want golds, those who want rare #1 others will see new interest in rare #2 and #3 and not want golds. Those who want golds will still ask for them in trades but the diversity in wants with the new rares will slowly even our the playing fields and allow the now kind of easier to catch rares to be traded in a wide spectrum of ways.

 

It wont be only one or a couple breeds dominating the wants or the demands of users. It will be a wide spectrum of rares being asked for across the board allowing for a more diverse trading experience. And where some would shift focus to only one breed others will shift theit focus solely on another. So we will always have users forcused on one particular breed but there will be so many different breeds for users to focus all their energy on that it wont be such a big strain. So everyone will most definitely have a better chance at getting a rare including golds and such, meaning that all these stressed out players and such will have a far better time hunting. Couple that with improved ratios or a slightly decreased rarity, and you have rares that could appear more often than not.

 

And again should someone be so unable to hunt for whatever reason, the shop will reflect the new and regular addition of these new rare breeds and make them a bit easier to buy. Not so easy that you walk away with 4-5 of them in a week but maybe make it so the points needed to earn them can be earned in 2-3 weeks time. With such a regular and new addition of dragons every couple of months it would make sense to adjust their availability in a shop should one be added in.

Edited May 27, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[olympe]

I think you have it backwards. :/

 

Even with higher ratios, the release of more rare breeds only means more breeds the average player cannot get. The only ones who benefit are those who already are in the uppermost tier at DC.

 

ETA:

 

The focus might shift *slightly* towards other breeds, but, as the copper and pyralspite releases have shown, the effect on the official rares is negligible.

 

People won't stop being people and keep their scroll free of rares, no matter how many random rare releases you add to the game. If worse comes to worst, they'll (maybe) abandon their scrollfull of shiny. Or they'll decide to hunt on day 2.

 

How does getting egg-locked with rares mean that someone has less thereof?

 

Even since pyrals and coppers were added, golds didn't get devalued in trades. As a matter of fact, they're still considered the next best thing to currency. Sure, some people are willing to accept a (higher) number of pyrals or coppers instead of merely golds - but the effect on the availability of golds is nonexistent. Plus, this means everyone needs that many more rares to complete their scroll goals. The increased availability of rares overall doesn't even begin to compensate for the increased demand, since there are quite a few players who don't need more CB metallics, but would still feel the need to hoard the new rares.

Edited May 27, 2015 by olympe

[Dragon_Arbock]

Well, the thing about releasing more rare breeds, is it would help the ratios by trying to stop the growing gap between the number of common breeds, and the rares (which, the more commons there are, the less chance for a rare to turn up).

 

The thing is, while I don't mind new rares, I think we need a more stable solution. I still think the the rares should have a set chance of appearing; not one that wavers all the time, and not one that's dependent on how many users already own.

[AnanoKimi]

I think you have it backwards. :/

 

Even with higher ratios, the release of more rare breeds only means more breeds the average player cannot get. The only ones who benefit are those who already are in the uppermost tier at DC.

 

ETA:

 

The focus might shift *slightly* towards other breeds, but, as the copper and pyralspite releases have shown, the effect on the official rares is negligible.

 

People won't stop being people and keep their scroll free of rares, no matter how many random rare releases you add to the game. If worse comes to worst, they'll (maybe) abandon their scrollfull of shiny. Or they'll decide to hunt on day 2.

 

How does getting egg-locked with rares mean that someone has less thereof?

 

Even since pyrals and coppers were added, golds didn't get devalued in trades. As a matter of fact, they're still considered the next best thing to currency. Sure, some people are willing to accept a (higher) number of pyrals or coppers instead of merely golds - but the effect on the availability of golds is nonexistent. Plus, this means everyone needs that many more rares to complete their scroll goals. The increased availability of rares overall doesn't even begin to compensate for the increased demand, since there are quite a few players who don't need more CB metallics, but would still feel the need to hoard the new rares.

Thats two different breeds with 4 our of the 6 variants currently being rare. plus its not like breeds that went rare like them were released often. Tell me of all the constant releases of rares we've had and how often they've been released every year? Not uncommons that become a bit harder to get, or uncommons that went kind of rare, but actual by set definition rares. How often and how far inbetween are they being released.

 

I'm not saying one rare every year or so. I saying one rare breed every 2 or 3 months. Thats 4-6 new rare breeds every year. Not 4-6 every two or three years, I mean 4-6 every single year. So no, its not gonna be a spit of an impact like prals or coppers. Pyrals werent even meant to be rare. The focus will shift significantly for the first few days and possibly for about a week or two as users of all sorts catch up and get as much as they can hold. Then obviously things will settle down and the difference wont be noticed right away, but by the next release, and the releaseafter that, the impact will slowly take effect.

 

It sounds like everyone wants an instantaneous fix to something that would take time. On top of that adding in more rares would be coupled with something that allows biome movement like the 5 minute AP kick, a drop in rarity, and maybe even the store suggestion.

 

Of course werent devalued, four new pretty sprites isnt gonna make an impact on a super rare. Just like golds dont compare in value to prize babies to some degree. But if we regularly start trying to add things as good as golds, then gold would have other rares to compete with. Users would have other pretty things to offer along side golds instead of just golds.

 

Trades might stop looking like this:

 

Have:

x3 CB Gold

x2 CB Silvers

x1 Brown copper

 

Want:

2nd gen prize

Neglected

[insert other valuable lineage or breed]

 

and might start looking more like this:

 

Have:

x2 Golds

x1 Rare #2

x1 CB silver

 

Want:

[insert things of equal or greater value]

 

Want might also start asking for not just golds, but the other rares with it so want's may say "Golds, Rare #2, Rare #3, and/or Rare #5"

 

You have to give it time. One kind of rare dragon added in once a year or two obviously wont shift the tides. One rare breed every 2-3 months might actually do the trick. Its not more breeds the average user can't get, its more breeds to spread out the demand to make as many of the breeds including golds accessible.

[Zylara]

Well I started playing in 2008, so been around almost 7 years now. It took a few years before I set my mind to catch a CB gold, and I finally got one after a long time of hunting only that one gold. My first CB silver was a gift from a very good friend. Then several years passed and I went to experimenting to have the ability to trade for CB metals. This was a slow process but at least I was able to work towards my scroll goals this way. Then I got lucky enough to be around for the 2013 CB metal flood, which I was able to complete my scroll goals and gift to others who could not catch them. I collect a certain amount of each and every dragon type, even the ones I don't really care for. I still have problems with catching the coppers and pyrals for my goals. But I know someday they will become easier to catch. So I am not for changing the rares drop rate at all. I don't think I have traded any CB metals away, I have no 2nd gen prize dragons, I gift metals I might happen to catch to others who cant get them.

 

I would like to see 2 new pygmys added that could fix the issues with a few people seeming to get all the CB metals. If 2 "fools gold" extremely common pygmys for gold and silver were added in with the same text as golds and silvers, then everyone would have an equal chance at getting a CB metal or an extremely common cave blocker pygmy, that can not be dropped or bitten for 5 hours. This could cause a person to think before taking ALL of the CB metal text eggs that pop up for fear of getting egg locked for 5 hours....but if they do take enough to get locked then others would then have a better chance at getting a rare egg.

 

Just my 2 cents...*hugs*

[The_Bucket]

I would like to see 2 new pygmys added that could fix the issues with a few people seeming to get all the CB metals. If 2 "fools gold" extremely common pygmys for gold and silver were added in with the same text as golds and silvers, then everyone would have an equal chance at getting a CB metal or an extremely common cave blocker pygmy, that can not be dropped or bitten for 5 hours. This could cause a person to think before taking ALL of the CB metal text eggs that pop up for fear of getting egg locked for 5 hours....but if they do take enough to get locked then others would then have a better chance at getting a rare egg.

This would infuriate a great many people, but it would also basically ruin scripters. I'm torn on this. I think the sheer amount of negativity it would likely create might not even be worth it.

Edited May 27, 2015 by The_Bucket

[AnanoKimi]

This would infuriate a great many people, but it would also basically ruin scripters. I'm torn on this. I think the sheer amount of negativity it would likely create might not even be worth it.

Yeah that last part of your statement is my concern. People are already murdering others because commons amongst their own ranks share descriptions. now if a super or uncommon and super rare shared descriptions and people locked themselves over and over with a "fools gold" breed, the amount of rage that would happen, I fear for TJ's life or at minimum the stability of DC.

[Tehya Faye]

I think Drake would work a bit better for a Fool's Gold since most Pygmies have mention of their small eggs in the description.

 

Edit: Yes, that is my concern. Not the outrage, not the personal irritation, but the choice of dragon type. I'm silly.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[DarkEternity]

This would infuriate a great many people, but it would also basically ruin scripters. I'm torn on this. I think the sheer amount of negativity it would likely create might not even be worth it.

Don't be so sure about that. If they've got a colour matcher on the AP then they could colour match the cave eggs too from the view link. I'd love myself some of those mercury pygmies though.

Edited May 27, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Syphoneira]

Hi, Anamokimi, just going to break this down a bit to answer.

 

 

"Why not have both? if the ratios are adjusted or their rarity dropped, why not still add more rares. We saw what having one shiny coveted thing distributed only one a year did. It caused tremendous strain. They were given in tiny numbers, they breed uberly poor, and everyone wanted one. ..."

 

 

 

Yes, we've seen the effects of this. We KNOW that with new dragons, never mind rares, everyone will want them NOW - generally in multiples, enough for lineages or, for traders, endless amounts for trades.

 

Rares are rares because there aren't many of them; only the fastest will get them and they won't breed well either, because rares generally don't.

 

People willing to cheat would have even more reason to do so, and they'd be sought after more desperately even than CB Golds, (although these would also be picked up along the way by an increased number of hunters,) so we'd be adding more frustration to an already unhappy general population and even more straws to the camel's sinking back.

 

 

 

 

"... Something similar is happening with things like golds and the such. Adding more rares might also devalue some ofthe current rares we have. Something better and shinier will win out over something old. The more rares are added in the more people will become to shift into liking more than one rare and possibly more than two or three into liking 5 or 10 or 15 causing them to spread out and try to get a bit of everything. ..."

 

 

 

Unfortunately, what would happen is that there would be more rares for the fastest to pick up and more dragons most people couldn't get. The fastest would likely trade many of theirs off for things like future 2nd gen Hollies and 2nd gen Prizes, freeing up more egg-slots for hunting, and not only would people be even more unhappy at not being able to obtain even more new dragons, but be even more shut out of the trading cycle. (Haven't even included cheaters in that.)

 

As with the Prizes, there would be tons of posts looking for or trading this suggested steady supply of new rares, crowding out other trades and making looking for other things a constant reminder to the general membership of their inability to obtain any of these dragons, so (as with the Prizes) we'd likely wind up with a separate rares thread, completing the separation between the fastest and the 2nd-class, now-segregated, not-so-fast.

 

Yes, of course everyone would want everything - and only a very few would get it.

 

Over time, fewer uber-Commons - further devalued by this and by people saving room just in case - would likely be taken to be raised, further reducing the rare supply connected with this, and the result would cycle downward from there, with ever-slowing biomes in the end probably boosted mainly by multi-scrollers having enough room to take more of the Commons.

 

The peasants are not necessarily going to stay on to raise more Commons they don't really want so that a few people can catch the odd rare, after all, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

"... Also if rares are added regularly, not once a year, not twice a year, not 3 hiccup breeds that are rare but not really, I mean regular once every two to three months a rare is released, then attention is adverted. ...'

 

 

 

I presume that you mean averted, rather than advertised? But there would be continual increasing stress and misery added to the bulk of the population, while the feeding frenzy would be worsening all of the time.

 

The clamour for the previously Released Rare dragons would still continue with the advent of new rares every 2 or 3 months, only the tenor of the site would almost certainly have become so rare-fixated (as with the Prizes) that (as with the Prizes) virtually everything would become fixated on rares alone.

 

People are not going to stay to be shut out of all of this, so the active site membership would most likely have continually shrunk, fewer Commons would be raised, so that fewer rares than ever would be produced, while the biomes would move increasingly less.

 

Readily anticipated effects cannot be ignored; this won't make them go away.

 

 

 

 

"...You all make it sound like scripters and cheaters have like 50 different scrolls and more, that they are the sole cause of all the issues and adding anything else is only adding more into their hands. Which isnt the case. You all also make it sound like adding more rares is the equivalent of the once a year prize raffle which is also not the case. I don't want to add in prize status rares. I want to add in maybe red or brown copper status rares. ..._

 

 

 

 

I would really like to see some quotes on what I actually said to indicate how you arrived at this perception?

 

Although I WAS told by someone knowledgeable that based on the numbers of downloads from just one site offering scripts (apparently among multiple such potential sources) for DC egg-catching, it was likely that several hundred scripts just from that one source could potentially exist to be used on DC, so that yes, there is a potential for scripters to be a major contributor to such issues, albeit obviously not a sole cause, and I'm unsure as to whether you mean that I suggested there are 50 scripters/other cheaters, or that you were labouring under the impression that I thought they had 50 scrolls each?

 

In the first case, it's certainly entirely possible that there are far more than 50 cheaters, but I would consider it to be extremely unlikely that they'd all specifically have in the area of 50 scrolls, lol.

 

 

First off, Coppers are not rares, they are unCommons which were made rare by user demand, indicating the effect this can have on even unCommons, especially when the trade fodder aspect takes over, causing various of the fastest to take far more for trade purposes than they would for their own personal use.

 

Golds and Silvers are true rares - therefore produced at far lower levels per Commons taken to be raisied/Frozen, so that there are far fewer of them produced - and they have been made far rarer than they should be, especially in the case of the CB Golds, by the trade fodder designation, being taken in bulk to trade for other things.

 

In this case, the idea of Releasing additional new rares has, going by what I've read in this thread, been promoted predominately not because of any particular sprites that were wanted but to be valuable things ONLY because most people wouldn't be able to get them, specifically in order to be traded for other valuable things by the few who could.

 

The odd unCommon is one thing, and can cause enough unhappiness on its own if it goes rare through user demand, as with the Pyrals, etc.; flooding the site with rares which under current circumstance would be immediately and chronically hunted to extinction as far as the overall membership goes is something different, and appears to be what the thread and commentary has been based on so far.

 

Many of us still rarely/never even see the Alpine/Coastal Pyrals and other unCommons made rare by user demand levels - true rares would be far worse, since their numbers would be, by definition, lower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"... Again, adjust ratios/rarity to make sure rares in general drop more frequently

Add in a better method of biome movement (5 minute ap dump or percentage AP dump and the end of the hour)

Add in a more consistent amount of rares along side normal releases to keep all theshiny hunters busy while the eggs that slipout of their fingers go to the scrolls of everyone else.

And lets have the shop with reasonable prices in accordance to their set rarity not percieved rarity.

 

Also, Syphoneria, I think the userbase can handle a little chaos if it benefits them. With regularly released rares, the disheartned hunters might start to notice a shift in tides and may just start hunting again. ..."

 

 

 

I agree with at least some of your listing above; however, I think that much of the user-base has already had more 'chaos' (lol, perhaps more a lot of boredom and discouragement for most, though,) than they care to handle in a game many play to relax and have fun with.

 

Since so many have left over the chaotic years since the Prizes and since so many long-term members have been on the verge of giving up on the site for so long, I think I may have to differ with that last statement, though.

 

And if the disheartened hunters can't catch anything either actually rare or user-made rare to perk up their hunt and playing-time, how are they supposed to catch NEW rares intensively hunted by everyone, including the fastest catchers onsite, given reason to hunt harder and more frequently than ever by the new rares? (This apart from scripters.)

 

 

 

 

"...The reason I and many are disheartened is because

1) There are barely any rares to help meet the demand for something shiny and challenging so their constant demand and allure makes them hard to get by regular users with half decent connections and such. 2) With everyone else getting the shinies for wanna be prize trades, the userbase feels like they cant catch up and half blame the shiny hunters, half blame prizes/prize owners. 3) As such they either give up and hunt for what they can or leave. ..."

 

 

 

 

Part of the issue would be improved by, as in your mention above, TJ implementing the AP dump suggestion - and by his increasing the numbers of both current rares and those made rare by user demand, even on a temporary basis, until the biomes begin to move enough, so that people in general would at last have the chance of actually experiencing the thrill of catching harder-to-get dragons themselves, or at least seeing them, lol.

 

Not everyone wants solid masses of CB Golds in trade, and the market consisting of those who did is at least beginning to be saturated, so that yes, demand is reducing for these among those who have been collecting them over the longer-term, and over time, that for the other current trade fodder dragons will as well, at which point people trading 2nd gen Prizes or whatever may well move on to other things they need/want, such as batches of hatchies, specific lineages, a variety of dragons actually needed for something specific.

 

There is no need to create more and more new 'high value' dragons to tempt people to trade - as long as we have regular New Releases of pretty new dragons, they will have new things to ask for, along with anything else available onsite.

 

But we do not need an entire separate economy for Prize or any trade, and the last thing we need to do is to worsen, rather than solve, the problems we already have, including those from the scarcity situation we've already suffered through, to the detriment of the site and much of the membership.

 

CB Prize owners will always be able to get good trades for 2nd gen babies - but if the entire site is to be modelled around them and those fast enough to catch multiple rares, it leaves room for no-one - and nothing - else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"... We can fix all of those. Again, the more rares there are, the more they start to devalue as more people manage to get their hands on them, even prize owners. So they become less of a trade fodder thing that you seems to obsessed with Syph. If we start to devalue them just a smidge making them slowly more accessible to everyone, then they loose that "trade fodder" value and people will slowly start to catch up.

 

Also should these new rares be introduced and their ratios/rarity shifted to become a bit more accessible, I would imagine their price would reflect that. Instead of taking months to obtain it might take a few weeks to at most a month to reflect not only their new accessibility to the rest of DC but to also relfect that its kind of stupid to make obtaining one of lets say 20-30 new rare breeds take months. ..."

 

 

 

Rares are rares because there are relatively few of them; Releasing new rares means that there would be a perpetual race to collect many of each not only for personal use/goals but for trade - to much of the population, they would simply be another new dragon they couldn't get and we already know what that makes people feel like.

 

Granted, our only true rares, the CB Golds and Silvers are, as already stated, far more rare than they should be, both because of unmoving biomes due to ratios creating too many dragons of types people have enough of (and often won't take unless Incuhatchable/ER,) and predominately because of the trade fodder aspect with which I'm obsessed in part because of the shifted valuation of dragons as to what they'll fetch in trade for something else, rather than for what they are, what they may mean to individuals and what they may be needed for, and in part because it is this which has made them so generally inaccessible to those not among the fastest catchers.

 

At the low rates with which new rares would be produced, why should people stick around for perhaps decades until the 2nd-class citizens get a chance at them, because the fastest have finally saturated the market for them?

 

Most people come here to relax and have fun, away from a world shrinking around them; not being able to catch dragons they need/want is not fun - catching them and being able to have/breed them is.

 

Initial rarity compounded by user-driven rarity would make these dragons - regardless of their sprites - disappear even faster than unCommons made rare by user demand, except that fewer would have them at this point, since rares are obviously more rare than unCommons, so that filling any major portion of that demand would take a very long time, even if nobody else joined and a lot of people left.

 

 

 

 

 

 

:... So a regular release or introduction of rares to DC would potentially:

-shift focus onto another breed momentarily Allowing other rare breeds to be obtained easier

-increase the availability of all breeds of rares once the community settles down.

-keep the community on their toes for the next rare release meaning egg locking with many rares will hopefully happen less.

-Egglocking for the first few weeks with the new rare breed or a mix of new and old rare breeds means less for them more for us.

-"trade Fodder" issue would diminish since as more rares are added along side regular releases, the diversity in rare breeds means that one breed now doesnt attract all. What could have attracted a swarm of interested players now attracts a smaller crowd since each individual player will now also put in new percieved value to the new breeds. ..."

 

 

 

 

Certainly the feeding frenzy over new rares would be something else, but the fastest hunters would certainly not stop picking up other desirable dragons along the way while looking for them.

 

These are people who will automatically react - before thought - when any description within their wanted range appears, not people likely to miss anything coming up simply because they are focused mainly on one dragon.

 

Out of the super-fast hunters onsite, with the vastly lower egg supply from a rare Release (would we even get a 3 minute Flood?) and with even a few willing to multi/script, how many eggs would the average OK catcher - never mind the slow - have a chance at?

 

Trade fodder interest would increase as more rares appeared; they'd have taken over a big chunk of the game, as Prizes did, and more people interested in catching and collecting, rather than trading, dragons would be playing less/leaving, accelerating the shift to Wall St. we're just beginning to get away from.

 

People at DC always want them ALL, ASAP - we're a group of fanatic dragon collectors, lol.

 

Look at some Release threads to see what happens when people can't catch new dragons, and how happy everyone is when they can...

 

 

 

 

 

"... With that last part, with more focus spread out amongst different breeds, instead of everyone wanting only the golds, you will have those who want golds, those who want rare #1 others will see new interest in rare #2 and #3 and not want golds. Those who want golds will still ask for them in trades but the diversity in wants with the new rares will slowly even our the playing fields and allow the now kind of easier to catch rares to be traded in a wide spectrum of ways.

 

It wont be only one or a couple breeds dominating the wants or the demands of users. It will be a wide spectrum of rares being asked for across the board allowing for a more diverse trading experience. And where some would shift focus to only one breed others will shift theit focus solely on another. So we will always have users forcused on one particular breed but there will be so many different breeds for users to focus all their energy on that it wont be such a big strain. So everyone will most definitely have a better chance at getting a rare including golds and such, meaning that all these stressed out players and such will have a far better time hunting. Couple that with improved ratios or a slightly decreased rarity, and you have rares that could appear more often than not. ..."

 

 

 

Where rares are concerned, the difficulty in obtaining enough for lineages and mates ensures that there will always be many people wanting more, at least up to a certain point, knowing that they might need a few extra pairs down the road and not be able to get them at the time.

 

And because they're rares, there will never be enough CBs of any kind to go around.

 

DC is FAR more than just a collecting site - lineages are a big deal to many people and there will always be lines/lineages where CBs are needed to start/continue them.

 

With this multiplied by a steady influx of new rares, the limited numbers of caught rares offered for trade will be easily absorbed by a relative few, since the supply consists of, well, rares.

 

People able to trade for them are likely to take whatever they can get of any rare, even if the emphasis is likely to be on the newest ones.

 

And we are always told that there are far more people off-forum than on - who can nonetheless trade - so that the rares must supply a fast/'wealthy'-enough group among how many thousands of people?

 

 

 

 

 

And again should someone be so unable to hunt for whatever reason, the shop will reflect the new and regular addition of these new rare breeds and make them a bit easier to buy. Not so easy that you walk away with 4-5 of them in a week but maybe make it so the points needed to earn them can be earned in 2-3 weeks time. With such a regular and new addition of dragons every couple of months it would make sense to adjust their availability in a shop should one be added in.

 

This post has been edited by AnanoKimi on May 27 2015, 10:13 AM

 

 

 

 

As far as I know, the shop hasn't been stated by TJ to be a thing at all; even if it does get accepted, we have no idea how many of what might be considered acceptable by TJ to be offered, and the points system, as far as I know, is still looking more in the area of perhaps several dragons per year, depending on what they are.

 

What was offered there would also, no doubt, be applied in accordance with ratios so that even if Cave Rares were to be made available via the Store, they would most likely not be available very often or in quantity.

 

Also, most people want to hunt and catch their own dragons, wherever at all possible.

 

The thrill of catching one which is harder to come by is entirely different from the process of trade and was one of the things about DC people used to like, back when it was possible to do so - at least I found this myself, and comments from others said much the same.

 

But for that, rare dragons need to be only harder to come by, not often impossible for many to even see.

[AnanoKimi]

I'll give to a good number of points, but lets say a mixture of uncommon/semi rare dragons as well as true rare dragons are introduced as well as a biome moving suggestion like the 5 minute AP, then we are talking about more than just one or two breeds taking the full brunt of a high demand user base.

 

Ofcourse users will always want more, that's why rares are hard to get, but relying on only two rares to keep the user base interested is complete and utter doom. Only two maybe 5-6 breeds being pumped pumped out to a userbase of possibly thousands is not going to suffice.

 

I can understand that this concern of "only the fastes will get all the eggs" but there are only so many fast people in this world let alone this site. Unless half the site is comprised of super fast robot like humans then I think we can be safe to think that they will eventually lock themselves with not only golds but like golds and three or four new rares should more regular rares be added, meaning more for the community.

 

Everyone makes it sound like everyone is either completely slow and useless or extremely fast in the most inhuman ways possible. Yes there are slow users, and there are extremely fast users. But adding in more rares to balance out the only two true rares we have the the rest of the pseudo rares wont automatically give fast clickers or scripters endless egg slots, so they will[/i] fill up eventually, and when they do others will have a chance. Again no one has a chance because there are only a handfull of rares. Of course all the fast clickers have them, there are only a slight amount that are already hard to find. SHould there be a few more added more often then instead of again only focusing on just one or two breeds they will evetually have 3-4 new breeds they will want to get their hands on.

 

And lets say a gold and a new rare appear side by side, the hunter will have to choose what to click first. If they want the new rare they risk loosing the other one. I doubt someone is fast enough to click both links with enough equal time to ensure they get both. the few seconds it takes them to shift from ctrl clicking one egg, the other egg will be gone, possibly to a user who once hadn't had a chance at even seeing a rare.

 

The change will be slow, but it will most definitely happen. Adding more rares would add diversity, new challenges, and best of all decrease the demand that was once focused on a small handfull of breeds.

 

 

[Syphoneira]

I'll give to a good number of points, but lets say a mixture of uncommon/semi rare dragons as well as true rare dragons are introduced as well as a biome moving suggestion like the 5 minute AP, then we are talking about more than just one or two breeds taking the full brunt of a high demand user base.

 

Ofcourse users will always want more, that's why rares are hard to get, but relying on only two rares to keep the user base interested is complete and utter doom. Only two maybe 5-6 breeds being pumped pumped out to a userbase of possibly thousands is not going to suffice.

 

I can understand that this concern of "only the fastes will get all the eggs" but there are only so many fast people in this world let alone this site. Unless half the site is comprised of super fast robot like humans then I think we can be safe to think that they will eventually lock themselves with not only golds but like golds and three or four new rares should more regular rares be added, meaning more for the community.

 

Everyone makes it sound like everyone is either completely slow and useless or extremely fast in the most inhuman ways possible. Yes there are slow users, and there are extremely fast users. But adding in more rares to balance out the only two true rares we have the the rest of the pseudo rares wont automatically give fast clickers or scripters endless egg slots, so they will[/i] fill up eventually, and when they do others will have a chance. Again no one has a chance because there are only a handfull of rares. Of course all the fast clickers have them, there are only a slight amount that are already hard to find. SHould there be a few more added more often then instead of again only focusing on just one or two breeds they will evetually have 3-4 new breeds they will want to get their hands on.

 

And lets say a gold and a new rare appear side by side, the hunter will have to choose what to click first. If they want the new rare they risk loosing the other one. I doubt someone is fast enough to click both links with enough equal time to ensure they get both. the few seconds it takes them to shift from ctrl clicking one egg, the other egg will be gone, possibly to a user who once hadn't had a chance at even seeing a rare.

 

The change will be slow, but it will most definitely happen. Adding more rares would add diversity, new challenges, and best of all decrease the demand that was once focused on a small handfull of breeds.

 

 

 

Honestly, at the moment, I'd say that Releasing anything hard to catch would be a major error - waaaaay too many people are already terribly discouraged with Refusals and difficulties breeding, biomes where people may endlessly Refresh over the same/similar eggs they already have enough of without ever even seeing anything interesting enough to break up the monotony and other issues varying from one person to the next, but often shared by many.

 

Ask a few long-term players if they've noticed a lot of attrition or not - it's certainly been a subject of discussion among people I talk to, even though more of those I used to talk to don't seem to be on anymore.

 

The last two Releases both had periods where the flow of eggs suddenly shifted to a trickle - the atmosphere change was enormous, but improved as soon as the egg supply did.

 

One long-term player in that last Release thread announced in a politely discouraged fashion that she'd been losing interest for some time and the apparent rarity of the eggs indicated by their abrupt virtual disappearance was the last straw - it wasn't worth-while.

 

People often don't bother to mention they give up, just softly and silently vanish away...

 

 

 

A lot of people are worn out by an increasingly sucky RL; they want - need - amusement and relaxation in their time off, which DC has the capacity to provide for a very large segment of the population.

 

Releases where people can't catch quickly and easily and get off to the RL stuff they need to do or settle down on the thread happily prepared to speculate aren't much fun for many.

 

You can easily see this on Release threads.

 

And concerns about being able to catch New Releases afterward are a major preoccupation.

 

Time and again, people will say that they dread another Pyral/Blusang, etc. issue arising - which would be much worse with rares...

 

 

If there are 3 super-fast people on a biome and two desirable eggs appear, it's quite possible that even just the person with the fastest connection and reactions could get both before those of us with slower refreshes even see them, leaving the other two that much more hyped to go, lol.

 

It really boils down to whoever sees it and gets on it first and fastest.

 

(I can vaguely recall doing that myself years back, got two eggs by clicking one, refreshing immediately, and clicking the one next to it, and I'm not super-fast and was on an old computer. But if I recall correctly, these were Blacks at a point they'd gone rare, not shinies, and I hadn't realized that people could get two like that when I first did it, either, hoping for one.)

 

And the more new the rare/unCommon dragons, as well as the more new rare/unCommon dragons, the more incentive the fastest have to be hunting longer and harder to get them.

 

 

There don't have to be many super-fast people on to catch any hard-to-get eggs that come up, but there will typically be a mix on of various abilities generally most affected by computer/connection speeds.

 

You can't catch what you don't see, and slow refreshes can ensure that you never see anything taken quickly.

 

 

 

Thing is, the addition of more new rares doesn't split/divert interest in other rares to 'share the load', it just increases the numbers of objects of interest in those fast enough to take anything of high trade value that comes along, and makes it that much more worth their while to put extra time in - along with everyone else.

 

And those hunting for trade would be trading multiple rares for things and making space with every trade - not raising them, as we more likely would, for our scrolls - so egg-lock would be far less likely to affect them than us.

 

 

[Tehya Faye]

It takes time to find trades. I've been trying to trade for a CB Gold fruitlessly for close to 3 weeks. Do I have enough Silvers to get one? Yes. Is anybody interested? No. I'm not currently egglocked, so it doesn't really make much of a difference, but trades don't necessarily happen in the blink of an eye.

[pederino]

Syphoneira, I think you should start to write a bit less and say more with fewer words. Not because of something important, but because is difficult to read all those words and retain the topic of what you are saying intact, making more difficult to get to your point. Also, some people might not even try to read that. Just a suggestion, of course.

 

In any case, I do think Ananokimi is right, is pointless to have just 2 true rares, and only 8 more or less rares vs almost 90 commons/uncommons, on an userbase that exceeds the ten thousands players (I am guessing here, sorry if I got a number too small or big). Also, and mainly, because we can add a bunch of "metals" and rares, we have pygmies, 2-headed, wyverns, eastern, western, lyndwurm, drakes and sea monsters; we could add at least a gold and silver of each kind; but they doesnt have to be metal, we could also add more rares that look like "normal" dragons, just that their species is very difficult to see/encounter. And we can do it little by little, just as Ananokimi said, every 2 or 3 months add 1, or every 5 commons/uncommons.

Edited May 28, 2015 by pederino

[Syphoneira]

Well, they say the devil is often in the details - and it's often the details that provide necessary pieces of the puzzle.

 

I know a lot of people probably won't read it and may even have concentration issues, but unfortunately, people who don't read explanatory comments don't understand the explanation, lol, and all I can do is try to provide the information.

 

That and I'm generally too tired to be concise.

 

 

 

Edit: very true that it takes time to make trades, Tehya Faye, although I suspect that anyone trading new rares would have plenty of fast offers, even if IOUs were involved.

 

As a group, we tend to be pretty fanatic about new dragons, even when Common, as you know, lol.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Ribombee]

Edit: very true that it takes time to make trades, Tehya Faye, although I suspect that anyone trading new rares would have plenty of fast offers, even if IOUs were involved.

 

As a group, we tend to be pretty fanatic about new dragons, even when Common, as you know, lol.

While this is true, again, it still takes some of the load off of the older rares. Even common new releases get much better trade offers on them while everyone is trying to load up on them. Every new release I see people offering rares in exchange for multiple of the new release, even after the new release has been shown to not be a super rare.

 

It is not just the catchers who are distracted by the new but the community as a whole. It is already much easier to find rares and even to trade for them during a new release. As a prize owner, I make it a point to never breed a 3rd gen prize that I want to trade during a new release because my offers (which are normally multiple and right away) trickle to NOTHING. Everyone is locked with the new release, and the only trades that really go like hotcakes involve new release eggs/hatchies. Meanwhile, I have found it is a FANTASTIC time to get deals on other things because people want to make room or can't find a trade for an egg they have and are desperate to trade it for SOMETHING they want, even if it is not what they were originally hoping for.

 

The best time for me to hunt for silvers is also during a new release. I avoid the biomes with the new release and go to the ones with the fewest people in them. I just check every 5 minute refresh, and even on my much slower phone, I can sometimes nab them. The silvers I did catch from my phone were during releases when everyone else was going crazy over new dragons. Meanwhile, I was nagging up the shinies.

[olympe]

I'll give to a good number of points, but lets say a mixture of uncommon/semi rare dragons as well as true rare dragons are introduced as well as a biome moving suggestion like the 5 minute AP, then we are talking about more than just one or two breeds taking the full brunt of a high demand user base.

If that happens, I know I, at least, will leave. No kidding. I'm sure I'm not the only one. If this site starts to only cater to those players who only want rares, let just those players have the whole site - and deal with the resulting issues. Let them be forced to raise their own commons so they have a chance at rares. Eventually, this policy would probably kill the site - but at least for some time, some people would have more fun, because there would be new challenges and a new thrill to hunting.