Make CB Golds **slighty** less rare

[Syphoneira]

There's only really 2 breeds that are really difficult to get right now. Coppers are relatively easy, Pyralspites seem to be coming back (at the very least I'm seeing Spessartine's as often as Green Coppers), and everything below them is trivial. Adding more true rares and implementing some way to balance out the ratios will be beneficial.

 

 

Lol, many of us DO now finally see the odd Copper, now that 'trade fodder' demand for them is reducing, although I only saw a couple of them during the Release, which is probably why I caught one.

 

But I think I've seen 3 Pyralspites in the Cave, total, ever, did manage in one period some months ago to catch several CB Blusang which I gifted to people who needed them more than I did, and I think I've seen one Silver and one Gold over the past year? - and I at least have a newer computer and probably a better connection than a lot of people here likely have.

 

 

But what's easy for some and possible for others may not be for many.

 

None of the dragons Released in recent years which have gone rare were supposed to be rare - they were unCommons, very beautiful sprites everyone wanted - and became 'trade fodder', which is the real killer, because some people are willing even to cheat to offer scrolls-full of them for other things.

 

If more true Rares are Released, how many do you think even moderately fast people - who can't catch CBs Golds regularly even when the demand for them as 'trade fodder' is at last slightly dying down - will catch when people are catching scrolls-full to offer for 2nd gen Prizes, some of whom may have no compunctions about using scripts to do so?

 

Everybody asking for more actual Rares seems to be visualizing themselves being to catch them when most others can't - yet if they can't catch the most in-demand 'trade fodder' the same as most people, why assume that it would be different in this case?

[Ribombee]

It has already happened, to some extent, with the rarer pyralspites. Yes, it meant another dragon that was difficult to catch, but for those who did catch one, it could be traded for other high-value dragons. The more TYPES of rare dragons there are, the better the chance there is of any individual being able to get one of them.

 

There's no easy answer to this. Very rares are very rare by definition, and they will always be hard to come by. However, having a few more can only help the overall situation. Might it help every individual person? Probably not. Might it help the overall community of players? Probably so.

 

Now, it is true that I have a fast connection, but I have also caught two silvers on my phone, which has a much slower connection and is much more difficult for me to catch anything good on. I caught my latest spessartine after it had been sitting in the cave for several seconds before I recognized it as something worth catching (I am so used to seeing the volcano ones, which are pretty common, that I did not click until my brain caught up with the fact that I was not in the volcano biome!). It IS possible to catch rares even on a slow connection. As far as time goes, that is another story. Unfortunately, pretty much every game I have ever come across will give the advantage to those who have more time to spend on the game than do others. It's like anything in life: the more time invested in something, the more likely an individual is to be successful at it. Obviously luck plays a part in everything, but overall, more time equals better success.

 

I spend probably far more time on this game than I should. By wheeling and dealing, I've managed to trade up for a lot of things, find people who are nice enough to breed me what I need, find great leavings in the departures thread, etc. Again, this was all before I won a prize. Obviously, I can't make time magically appear for people who have too little, but if inability to catch dragons in the caves is the main issue, there are work arounds.

[PewterEyes]

Everybody asking for more actual Rares seems to be visualizing themselves being to catch them when most others can't - yet if they can't catch the most in-demand 'trade fodder' the same as most people, why assume that it would be different in this case?

I am feeling uncomfortable disagreeing with you because, after reading many of your posts, I think you are one of the most reasonable people in the forum. But, in this case, I think you are making wrong assumptions. Tehya Faye can catch, as demonstrated by her Silvers. I can catch even if not at those levels. Opinions were given by Prize owners. As someone that likes to hunt, I can tell you: if there were other breeds at a level of rarity that would be considered fair trade by the Prize owners, I would be hunting those instead of Silvers. Or Golds.

[AnanoKimi]

It has already happened, to some extent, with the rarer pyralspites. Yes, it meant another dragon that was difficult to catch, but for those who did catch one, it could be traded for other high-value dragons. The more TYPES of rare dragons there are, the better the chance there is of any individual being able to get one of them.

 

There's no easy answer to this. Very rares are very rare by definition, and they will always be hard to come by. However, having a few more can only help the overall situation. Might it help every individual person? Probably not. Might it help the overall community of players? Probably so.

 

Now, it is true that I have a fast connection, but I have also caught two silvers on my phone, which has a much slower connection and is much more difficult for me to catch anything good on. I caught my latest spessartine after it had been sitting in the cave for several seconds before I recognized it as something worth catching (I am so used to seeing the volcano ones, which are pretty common, that I did not click until my brain caught up with the fact that I was not in the volcano biome!). It IS possible to catch rares even on a slow connection. As far as time goes, that is another story. Unfortunately, pretty much every game I have ever come across will give the advantage to those who have more time to spend on the game than do others. It's like anything in life: the more time invested in something, the more likely an individual is to be successful at it. Obviously luck plays a part in everything, but overall, more time equals better success.

 

I spend probably far more time on this game than I should.  By wheeling and dealing, I've managed to trade up for a lot of things, find people who are nice enough to breed me what I need, find great leavings in the departures thread, etc. Again, this was all before I won a prize. Obviously, I can't make time magically appear for people who have too little, but if inability to catch dragons in the caves is the main issue, there are work arounds. 

When suggestions like this happen one has to leave ones self behind and think of this as how it affects the whole. When you start thinking only of yourself and how something affects you only and individually, the suggestion becomes moot. These suggestions are made to help the game play for the community. Not for you or me specifically, but for everyone as a whole. So putting personal concerns is okay but shooting down something because you personally might not be able to achieve it due to only personal experience (which to me can be a bit narrow minded in the sense that you leave out the possibilities and experiences of everyone else) is not helping a suggestion grow.

 

Just because a fix to the suggestion doesn't benefit you specifically doesn't mean it won't benefit someone else who is having the same problem as you. And if thats the case everyone is welcome to make suggestions that may apply better to one's case (Like the shop for those who don't have the time or conncetion to hunt in cave and such.)

 

Adding in more rares has the very big possibility of diverting attention for the very tiny tiny pool of rares we have and making catching the rares we are currently having trouble with a bit easier. Scripters can only do so much and unless they have 20 different scrolls they can log in to or an endless supply of accounts to hunt the cave with, I think that everyone at some point for can have a chance once the scripters and the fast hunters have their fill.

 

Again, users can only focus on so much at one time, constantly shifting the focus and demand to new rares for a bit means a better chance at catching something nice, and once the hype dies down and everyone starts trying to get a little bit of every rare now existent in the cave the strain and demand on the tiny number of breeds will lessen and allow for far more equal opportunities.

Edited May 27, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Ribombee]

Thank you, AnonoKimi, you put that very succinctly. As much as I would love to think what is best for myself, I tend to have a very community-centric mind when it comes to games. I have been a mod and developer in so many that I am primed to think in that manner. It is certainly possible that this suggestion will not work for the community. If that is under discussion, I am very willing to talk about that. If it is a matter of "this isn't good for me" there is nothing I can offer that will help. No solution will help every single person, and most will upset at least a few people. Any suggestions I give are--hopefully (and I welcome constructive criticism!--always with the entire community in mind rather than my own interests or merely those of my friends.

[Syphoneira]

It has already happened, to some extent, with the rarer pyralspites. Yes, it meant another dragon that was difficult to catch, but for those who did catch one, it could be traded for other high-value dragons. The more TYPES of rare dragons there are, the better the chance there is of any individual being able to get one of them.

 

There's no easy answer to this. Very rares are very rare by definition, and they will always be hard to come by. However, having a few more can only help the overall situation. Might it help every individual person? Probably not. Might it help the overall community of players? Probably so.

 

Now, it is true that I have a fast connection, but I have also caught two silvers on my phone, which has a much slower connection and is much more difficult for me to catch anything good on. I caught my latest spessartine after it had been sitting in the cave for several seconds before I recognized it as something worth catching (I am so used to seeing the volcano ones, which are pretty common, that I did not click until my brain caught up with the fact that I was not in the volcano biome!). It IS possible to catch rares even on a slow connection. As far as time goes, that is another story. Unfortunately, pretty much every game I have ever come across will give the advantage to those who have more time to spend on the game than do others. It's like anything in life: the more time invested in something, the more likely an individual is to be successful at it. Obviously luck plays a part in everything, but overall, more time equals better success.

 

I spend probably far more time on this game than I should.  By wheeling and dealing, I've managed to trade up for a lot of things, find people who are nice enough to breed me what I need, find great leavings in the departures thread, etc. Again, this was all before I won a prize. Obviously, I can't make time magically appear for people who have too little, but if inability to catch dragons in the caves is the main issue, there are work arounds. 

 

 

 

Yes, it happened with unCommons, lol - rares are, by definition, rarer than unCommons - and having multiple hard-to-get dragons didn't appear to me to make Golds any easier to see, never mind catch, for most.

 

And with the current state of affairs, I wouldn't like to bet on having more rares make catching them any easier for regular people or even the moderately fast ones, when rares ARE what attract and spur on those willing to do anything to catch them for trade, while discouraging those who just want to collect and breed dragons they want.

 

 

The term 'rare' in this instance just means 'totally not enough to go around', hardly a bonus for a group mostly consisting mostly of people with slower systems on a family gamesite, just for those able to get them.

 

 

Also, are the ratios in categories, as in numbers of the group of rares appearing in relation to numbers of the group of Commons taken?

 

If so, there would be less of both the existing metallics and whatever new rare(s) were appearing, although I've really no idea how TJ works this...

 

 

Some slow connections are worse than others; I know nothing about this stuff myself, but it apparently depends on what area it's slow in.

 

Also, what seems slow to someone otherwise having a fast connection may actually be a faster connection than that of someone perceiving as fast a slightly better connection than the slooooow one they normally have to use.

 

In the past, I've sometimes found that I had better luck in site-wide lag, although this doesn't seem to be holding true anymore, lol. (although the lag has seemed much reduced to me since the Release - anyone else find this?)

 

But if the eggs are gone before the player gets there, they have no chance.

 

And those who haven't had to deal with very slow connections/old computers/handicaps may have no idea exactly what others may be dealing with.

 

 

Hey, some people are always going to be faster than others or have whatever advantages and that's fine, good for them.

 

But when people on a family site are being effectively shut out from parts of a game, that's not good.

 

 

We seem to have developed this wide-spread mind-set where a fair number of us automatically assume various things such as:

 

A.) that acquisition of 2nd gen Prizes are viewed as being The Main (or even only) Concern, while they are far from the only one for many (even though they typically are *one* among many for many, lol)

 

B.) that hard-to-come-by dragons should be available not for their presumably pretty new sprites (which is what many would value them for, as well as needing them for scroll completion and lineage creation/completion) but as 'trade fodder' for 2nd gen Prizes or for *something other than themselves*

 

C.) that having more true rares would somehow make it easier for them to catch these, while others couldn't

 

D.) that many CB Prize owners wouldn't be just as likely to trade for a scroll-full of any pretty new dragon as for exclusively new rare ones, even though we've just heard of this occurring

 

Edit: also that people finally catching a Alpine/Coast Pyralspite or whatever hard-to-come-by dragon would be willing to trade a dragon they need for another, lol. (There'd certainly be cold, dead hands involved in my case! )

 

We might need to think about some of these assumptions, often made even when we know better.

 

 

Why create new rares to further widen the gap between the fastest and virtually everyone else, when regular new Releases of pretty Commons and the odd unCommon works for just about everyone and a rare Release will simply place yet another straw on the backs of those already not having much fun in a game they play specifically to have fun with in their leisure time?

 

 

And I'm sure I've been utterly ninja'd 6 times over, pages back, while off fussing with the dog, lol.

 

Oh well!

Edited May 27, 2015 by Syphoneira

[AnanoKimi]

 

 

Yes, it happened with unCommons, lol - rares are, by definition, rarer than unCommons - and having multiple hard-to-get dragons didn't appear to me to make Golds any easier to see, never mind catch, for most.

 

And with the current state of affairs, I wouldn't like to bet on having more rares make catching them any easier for regular people or even the moderately fast ones, when rares ARE what attract and spur on those willing to do anything to catch them for trade, while discouraging those who just want to collect and breed dragons they want.

 

 

The term 'rare' in this instance just means 'totally not enough to go around', hardly a bonus for a group mostly consisting mostly of people with slower systems on a family gamesite, just for those able to get them.

 

 

Also, are the ratios in categories, as in numbers of the group of rares appearing in relation to numbers of the group of Commons taken?

 

If so, there would be less of both the existing metallics and whatever new rare(s) were appearing, although I've really no idea how TJ works this...

 

 

Some slow connections are worse than others; I know nothing about this stuff myself, but it apparently depends on what area it's slow in.

 

Also, what seems slow to someone otherwise having a fast connection may actually be a faster connection than that of someone perceiving as fast a slightly better connection than the slooooow one they normally have to use.

 

In the past, I've sometimes found that I had better luck in site-wide lag, although this doesn't seem to be holding true anymore, lol. (although the lag has seemed much reduced to me since the Release - anyone else find this?)

 

But if the eggs are gone before the player gets there, they have no chance.

 

And those who haven't had to deal with very slow connections/old computers/handicaps may have no idea exactly what others may be dealing with.

 

 

Hey, some people are always going to be faster than others or have whatever advantages and that's fine, good for them.

 

But when people on a family site are being effectively shut out from parts of a game, that's not good.

 

 

  We seem to have developed this wide-spread mind-set where a fair number of us automatically assume various things such as:

 

A.) that acquisition of 2nd gen Prizes are viewed as being The Main (or even only) Concern, while they are far from the only one for many (even though they typically are *one* among many for many, lol)

 

B.) that hard-to-come-by dragons should be available not for their presumably pretty new sprites (which is what many would value them for, as well as needing them for scroll completion and lineage creation/completion) but as 'trade fodder' for 2nd gen Prizes or for *something other than themselves*

 

C.) that having more true rares would somehow make it easier for them to catch these, while others couldn't

 

D.) that many CB Prize owners wouldn't be just as likely to trade for a scroll-full of any pretty new dragon as for exclusively new rare ones, even though we've just heard of this occurring

 

We might need to think about some of these assumptions, often made even when we know better.

 

 

Why create new rares to further widen the gap between the fastest and virtually everyone else, when regular new Releases of pretty Commons and the odd unCommon works for just about everyone and a rare Release will simply place yet another straw on the backs of those already not having much fun in a game they play specifically to have fun with in their leisure time?

 

 

And I'm sure I've been utterly ninja'd 6 times over, pages back, while off fussing with the dog, lol.

 

Oh well! 

Everything you are describing are mainly hypotheticals. Also notice that the phrase "it already sort of happened" was used.

 

The dragons that went rare were first of all not meant to be rare. On top of that, the ones that went rare are not as abundant as the rares themselves. So the pool of rare or 'incredibly hard to obtain' dragons is a speck compared to the number of regular uncommon and common dragons. Basing your self on such a skewed reality is obviously not the best course of action.

 

Also, for users with crippling handicaps or connections on par with dial up have the option of supporting the shop suggestion alongside this one. If you feel incapable of hunting the cave, have little to no time to hunt the cave, or are crippled/handicapped enough to be unable to properly hunt the cave, then the shop suggestion is right over there and can be implemented along side an increase of rares. For those of us with the ability, the decent connection, and the time to hunt, we would like to see new rares added to cushion the scarcity of them. Each side can have their win win with the right suggestion implemented. You, Olympe, Fuzz, etc (I'm throwing fuzz in here cuz Fuzz is old and has a slow connection. I love you Fuzz <3) who feel unable to hunt the cave can help flesh out the store suggestion which will make rares accessible to users who have any one or more of the issues stated previously.

 

The suggestion of adding more rares to spread out the demand and hopefully increase their availability isnt a cure all for everyone. That is why sometimes multiple suggestions are needed hand in hand to cater to as many people as possible in all types of circumstances.

Edited May 27, 2015 by AnanoKimi

[Tehya Faye]

2nd gen prizes are mostly a concern of the forum, which is certainly not reflective of the rest of the playerbase. I want more rares because they are usually exciting to hunt for, and if all the trade demand isn't on just two dragons then maybe the players off the forum will be more likely to catch them for their collections. The new rares won't interfere with the production of old rares any more than commons interfere with them. If anything they would interfere less since they wouldn't turn into new blockers for the cave to preferentially generate instead of uncommon/rare dragons.

 

Edit: Exactly what AnanoKimi stated. The shop would be a godsend for people with slow connections or disabilities if it were implemented. Implementing the "Send Eggs to the AP" suggestion would also help the generation of rares, making it easier for the fast catches to get their fill and allow slower ones to get their chance. Adding even more rares into the mix on top of both of these should make the situation in Dragon Cave much more enjoyable for everyone.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Syphoneira]

Everything you are describing are mainly hypotheticals. Also notice that the phrase "it already sort of happened" was used.

 

The dragons that went rare were first of all not meant to be rare. On top of that, the ones that went rare are not as abundant as the rares themselves. So the pool of rare or 'incredibly hard to obtain' dragons is a speck compared to the number of regular uncommon and common dragons. Basing your self on such a skewed reality is obviously not the best course of action.

 

Also, for users with crippling handicaps or connections on par with dial up have the option of supporting the shop suggestion alongside this one. If you feel incapable of hunting the cave, have little to no time to hunt the cave, or are crippled/handicapped enough to be unable to properly hunt the cave, then the shop suggestion is right over there and can be implemented along side an increase of rares. For those of us with the ability, the decent connection, and the time to hunt, we would like to see new rares added to cushion the scarcity of them. Each side can have their win win with the right suggestion implemented. You, Olympe, Fuzz, etc (I'm throwing fuzz in here cuz Fuzz is old and has a slow connection. I love you Fuzz <3) who feel unable to hunt the cave can help flesh out the store suggestion which will make rares accessible to users who have any one or more of the issues stated previously.

 

The suggestion of adding more rares to spread out the demand and hopefully increase their availability isnt a cure all for everyone. That is why sometimes multiple suggestions are needed hand in hand to cater to as many people as possible in all types of circumstances.

 

 

 

 

Of course I'm using hypotheticals, lol - I have no idea how TJ works things!

 

Also, if you're viewing this as some sort of heated objection, that would be a mistaken perception.

 

 

Lol, the point I was making that was that we had effectively already HAD more rares added, with the unCommons going rare, even though being produced in larger quantities than actual rares would be.

 

Did we at any time find it easier, as a result of having had these virtual rares added, to catch the actual intended rares?

 

I'm not seeing signs of this having occurred - can you please show me where the presence of these virtual rares has increased chances for the people even just posting on this thread to catch CB Golds?

 

 

I think I'm also having trouble getting exactly what you mean in some cases, so if I'm wrong in any of my assumptions, please let me know.

 

 

There are very few Rares relative to the Commons Dropped in the Biomes - I don't know what the percentages are or how they're calculated - TJ keeps this stuff sekit.

 

 

But IF the number of total Rares Dropped is relative to the number of total Commons Dropped, adding to the numbers of types of rares would cut back on the individual numbers of each of the now-increased species of rares being Dropped.

 

If anyone has inside info on this, please let us know?

 

At this point, this seems to me to be something to be kept in mind.

 

 

I personally am not actually big on the idea of there being a two-tier DC, where the community as a whole is not included in consideration of Cave changes.

 

Many members are already unhappy or have wandered away because they feel shut out of too many areas as it stands - the introduction of more rares, and an increase in dragons they can't get so that a relative few can have scroll-fulls is not going to help this situation.

 

This might be fun for the fastest, but leaves most of the community being effectively told that since they can't play the game fully, go play what bits you can over there.

 

This is not just about the people commenting on here, this is about a community where many joined in part because this was something that they COULD play on old computers/with slower connections.

 

And just as things gradually begin to normalize a little, due to TJ's brilliant increase in last years Prize distribution, again boosting the 'Wall St.' aspect first intruding into the game with the advent of too few of a new dragon sprite being initially awarded doesn't strike me as something good for either the community or the site.

 

 

[Tehya Faye]

I was under the impression everything is counted separately, not in rarity groups. If a new dragon was introduced that was meant to be equally as rare as Golds are then the system will endeavor to keep both populations equal to each other while keeping them in balance with the commons.

 

To put it in numbers: If Golds are meant to be 1:100 to Canopies then the game will endeavor to both make and keep this true. If we add a new breed that is meant to be 1:1 with Golds and 1:100 to Canopies then it will be produced as frequently as Golds are. It will not replace Golds. The Cave will flood with the new breed to catch them up with the ratios, and then once everything is balanced it will produce both rares in equal numbers because every species population is counted individually.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[Syphoneira]

I was under the impression everything is counted separately, not in rarity groups. If a new dragon was introduced that was meant to be equally as rare as Golds are then the system will endeavor to keep both populations equal to each other while keeping them in balance with the commons.

 

To put it in numbers: If Golds are meant to be 1:100 to Canopies then the game will endeavor to both make and keep this true. If we add a new breed that is meant to be 1:1 with Golds and 1:100 to Canopies then it will be produced as frequently as Golds are. It will not replace Golds. The Cave will flood with the new breed to catch them up with the ratios, and then once everything is balanced it will produce both rares in equal numbers because every species population is counted individually.

 

 

 

That would certainly be better!

 

Since we've only the two real rares, it's hard to get an idea of how these are worked out.

[Tehya Faye]

Yep, if that's how things actually are then adding a new Gold-level rare would actually make it twice as likely for people to see an Uber rare. Which isn't much, of course. 2 x 0.00001 isn't terribly significant. But adding more rares in this sort of system would make it easier overall for people to catch a rare in general, and if it isn't the rare they want they could try trading it for the one they're really after.

[AnanoKimi]

 

 

 

Of course I'm using hypotheticals, lol - I have no idea how TJ works things!

 

Also, if you're viewing this as some sort of heated objection, that would be a mistaken perception.

 

 

Lol, the point I was making that was that we had effectively already HAD more rares added, with the unCommons going rare, even though being produced in larger quantities than actual rares would be.

 

Did we at any time find it easier, as a result of having had these virtual rares added, to catch the actual intended rares?

 

I'm not seeing signs of this having occurred - can you please show me where the presence of these virtual rares has increased chances for the people even just posting on this thread to catch CB Golds?

 

 

I think I'm also having trouble getting exactly what you mean in some cases, so if I'm wrong in any of my assumptions, please let me know.

 

 

There are very few Rares relative to the Commons Dropped in the Biomes - I don't know what the percentages are or how they're calculated - TJ keeps this stuff sekit.

 

 

But IF the number of total Rares Dropped is relative to the number of total Commons Dropped, adding to the numbers of types of rares would cut back on the individual numbers of each of the now-increased species of rares being Dropped.

 

If anyone has inside info on this, please let us know?

 

At this point, this seems to me to be something to be kept in mind.

 

 

I personally am not actually big on the idea of there being a two-tier DC, where the community as a whole is not included in consideration of Cave changes.

 

Many members are already unhappy or have wandered away because they feel shut out of too many areas as it stands - the introduction of more rares, and an increase in dragons they can't get so that a relative few can have scroll-fulls is not going to help this situation.

 

This might be fun for the fastest, but leaves most of the community being effectively told that since they can't play the game fully, go play what bits you can over there.

 

This is not just about the people commenting on here, this is about a community where many joined in part because this was something that they COULD play on old computers/with slower connections.

 

And just as things gradually begin to normalize a little, due to TJ's brilliant increase in last years Prize distribution, again boosting the 'Wall St.' aspect first intruding into the game with the advent of too few of a new dragon sprite being initially awarded doesn't strike me as something good for either the community or the site.

There was no change because, again, the addition of the breeds that went rare were so minimal and a one time or once in a blue moon thing that it had no chance to create an impact. That's like expecting some tiny little point 1 earthquake to bring down sky scrapers and demolish homes. That's not how it works.

 

a building wont topple with just one tiny earthquake. it has the chance of toppling if it is barraged by many small earthquakes on a constant basis. This is my idea behind adding more rares. lets say that if for every 5 common/uncommon breeds introduced, one rare followed, we would not only have a vast cave of commons and uncommons, but a nice selection of rares to spread out the demand and occupy everyone.

 

Another note, no one is excluding anyone here. Did you not read this part of my argument?:

 

Also, for users with crippling handicaps or connections on par with dial up have the option of supporting the shop suggestion alongside this one. If you feel incapable of hunting the cave, have little to no time to hunt the cave, or are crippled/handicapped enough to be unable to properly hunt the cave, then the shop suggestion is right over there and can be implemented along side an increase of rares. For those of us with the ability, the decent connection, and the time to hunt, we would like to see new rares added to cushion the scarcity of them. Each side can have their win win with the right suggestion implemented. You, Olympe, Fuzz, etc (I'm throwing fuzz in here cuz Fuzz is old and has a slow connection. I love you Fuzz <3) who feel unable to hunt the cave can help flesh out the store suggestion which will make rares accessible to users who have any one or more of the issues stated previously.

 

The suggestion of adding more rares to spread out the demand and hopefully increase their availability isnt a cure all for everyone. That is why sometimes multiple suggestions are needed hand in hand to cater to as many people as possible in all types of circumstances.

 

Where I clearly mention that the side of the community that feels unable to hunt due to connections, time constraints, handicaps, etc can also support the shop suggestion so they can have a chance at earning rares with normal game play? Or did you completely ignore it and decide to focus on the initial part then make it seem like I was aiming to leave everyone else out of it.

 

Lets use you and me as an example. This will all by hypothetical and am using very general observations.

 

Lets say you, Syphoneria, are a player who has no rares, has a slow connection, somewhat outdated computer, and demanding job/life. This means that what little time you spend on DC is mostly used for breeding and hunting the necessary common and occasional uncommon for lineages and other breedings you have planned. This also means you have a small chance at being able to see much less catch a rare.

 

I on the other hand have a decent connection, mostly up to date computer with latest OS, and some ample time on my hands. I have the time to sit for hours and stalk the cave, catch those rares here and there and trade them off.

 

Now for me, the addition of more rares would allow me to focus on more than just golds, silvers, pyrals, etc. I would have more than just the new commons that everyone and their dog can have and something fun to trade. Its not only valuable but new and challenging to get.

 

You don't have this ability and as such you continue to focus your time on the smaller things like your scroll, your breeding, your collection of common and uncommon dragons. All of these things such as breeding, hatching, freezing, raising, incubating, etc, allows you to build up points. You may be unable to hunt the cave for rare but have just as much of a chance of obtaining one through the in cave store that allows you to trade in these points for eggs of all kinds. You've saved up enough points for a gold and a new rare breed and as such spend it as such. You might even have enough for one or two more but decide to continue saving up for maybe a prize or another small batch of rare breed eggs.

 

Do you see how both sides win? You represent the part of the community you seem to be so valiantly fighting for, the ones unable to dedicate the time or unable to hunt the caves for any number of reasons. I represent the part of the community that has the ability to hunt for these rares due to an abundance of time or good connections, etc.

 

Neither side is left out in this, but both sides do have their own ways of obtaining the same thing. This is called thinking about the whole community. I don't aim to leave anyone out, and no one here does either. But insisting that because part of the community cant hunt and as such we should never have no new rare breeds is a bit selfish when there are plenty of ways to add in new rare breeds to help lessen the demand of the tiny pool available for actual hunters, and still making them just as available to those who cannot or do not hunt the caves.

[Syphoneira]

There was no change because, again, the addition of the breeds that went rare were so minimal and a one time or once in a blue moon thing that it had no chance to create an impact. That's like expecting some tiny little point 1 earthquake to bring down sky scrapers and demolish homes. That's not how it works.

 

a building wont topple with just one tiny earthquake. it has the chance of toppling if it is barraged by many small earthquakes on a constant basis. This is my idea behind adding more rares. lets say that if for every 5 common/uncommon breeds introduced, one rare followed, we would not only have a vast cave of commons and uncommons, but a nice selection of rares to spread out the demand and occupy everyone.

 

Another note, no one is excluding anyone here. Did you not read this part of my argument?:

 

 

(Edit to add in quote which didn't copy)

QUOTE

Also, for users with crippling handicaps or connections on par with dial up have the option of supporting the shop suggestion alongside this one. If you feel incapable of hunting the cave, have little to no time to hunt the cave, or are crippled/handicapped enough to be unable to properly hunt the cave, then the shop suggestion is right over there and can be implemented along side an increase of rares. For those of us with the ability, the decent connection, and the time to hunt, we would like to see new rares added to cushion the scarcity of them. Each side can have their win win with the right suggestion implemented. You, Olympe, Fuzz, etc (I'm throwing fuzz in here cuz Fuzz is old and has a slow connection. I love you Fuzz <3) who feel unable to hunt the cave can help flesh out the store suggestion which will make rares accessible to users who have any one or more of the issues stated previously. 

 

The suggestion of adding more rares to spread out the demand and hopefully increase their availability isnt a cure all for everyone. That is why sometimes multiple suggestions are needed hand in hand to cater to as many people as possible in all types of circumstances. (End of edit)

 

 

 

Where I clearly mention that the side of the community that feels unable to hunt due to connections, time constraints, handicaps, etc can also support the shop suggestion so they can have a chance at earning rares with normal game play? Or did you completely ignore it and decide to focus on the initial part then make it seem like I was aiming to leave everyone else out of it.

 

Lets use you and me as an example. This will all by hypothetical and am using very general observations.

 

Lets say you, Syphoneria, are a player who has no rares, has a slow connection, somewhat outdated computer, and demanding job/life. This means that what little time you spend on DC is mostly used for breeding and hunting the necessary common and occasional uncommon for lineages and other breedings you have planned. This also means you have a small chance at being able to see much less catch a rare.

 

I on the other hand have a decent connection, mostly up to date computer with latest OS, and some ample time on my hands. I have the time to sit for hours and stalk the cave, catch those rares here and there and trade them off.

 

Now for me, the addition of more rares would allow me to focus on more than just golds, silvers, pyrals, etc. I would have more than just the new commons that everyone and their dog can have and something fun to trade. Its not only valuable but new and challenging to get.

 

You don't have this ability and as such you continue to focus your time on the smaller things like your scroll, your breeding, your collection of common and uncommon dragons. All of these things such as breeding, hatching, freezing, raising, incubating, etc, allows you to build up points. You may be unable to hunt the cave for rare but have just as much of a chance of obtaining one through the in cave store that allows you to trade in these points for eggs of all kinds. You've saved up enough points for a gold and a new rare breed and as such spend it as such. You might even have enough for one or two more but decide to continue saving up for maybe a prize or another small batch of rare breed eggs.

 

Do you see how both sides win? You represent the part of the community you seem to be so valiantly fighting for, the ones unable to dedicate the time or unable to hunt the caves for any number of reasons. I represent the part of the community that has the ability to hunt for these rares due to an abundance of time or good connections, etc.

 

Neither side is left out in this, but both sides do have their own ways of obtaining the same thing. This is called thinking about the whole community. I don't aim to leave anyone out, and no one here does either. But insisting that because part of the community cant hunt and as such we should never have no new rare breeds is a bit selfish when there are plenty of ways to add in new rare breeds to help lessen the demand of the tiny pool available for actual hunters, and still making them just as available to those who cannot or do not hunt the caves.

 

 

 

 

 

Ummmmm, how many rares are you planning on there being added?

 

We had Alpine Pyralspites, Coastal Pyralspites, Blusang, and 3 different Coppers in different biomes all be defined as trade fodder, there's so 6 dragons right which went rare not because they were rare, but because they were trade fodder, increasing the already high user demand enormously.

 

Some of these have been in a rare state (if you'll pardon the pun, lol,) since the 3 Copper species were Released in the 7 dragons in 7 days Event 2 years ago, the Blusang, since its Release in 2012, the Alpine and Coastal Pyralspites for close to a year now.

 

I would not regard these as '... minimal and a one time or once in a blue moon thing that it had no chance to create an impact ...' at all.

 

Also, because these were all unCommons, not rares, they would obviously be produced in much higher quantities than would be rares, so while I've no idea of proportions, that might count for...guessing wildly... anywhere from 8 to 12 rare species?

 

People being unable to catch these dragons has had an enormous effect on many of the large numbers of people in that position - do we really want to add to that, and even more drastically, with multiple true rares classified as trade fodder?

 

 

 

 

Actually, I look at this family site as a place where all ages play all around the world, where many joined because they did NOT need a fast system to play here.

 

People generally don't have a problem with the fact that some people are going to be faster and catch way more of the most desirable stuff, but they typically do when they're told that it's OK that they have no chance to even try to catch various dragons, and that those who currently have a faster system want to have more things that only they can catch.

 

If all of the people here who were not fast catchers quit in despair, how many would be left?

 

Enough to support the site?

 

 

It's not just people on dial-up or who have handicaps unable to catch CB Golds and Silvers or even to see them anymore; this is a large section of the site.

 

How large, I can't say, but there is a very large and growing population world-wide, in even wealthy, industrialized countries, who can not afford fast systems, and if DC get's priced out of that market by people needing to have these to play the game, it's going to eliminate a lot of revenue.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Syphoneira

[Tehya Faye]

Introducing more true rares would be a good thing, though. Your chances of seeing a specific one will remain low, but your chance of seeing any of them would be higher.

[AnanoKimi]

I've seen a handful. There's enough on both sides. I don't see blusangs as rare because I see them traded for gender swaps often. I my self have managed to nab a few here and there and even gifted one recently so there's that. And I have an awful time catching rares. Never caught one in my life. Not even a messy one. All have been gifts or trades. So there's that.

 

The coppers actually vary in rarity amongst the colors. One color seems to be more coveted than another because there are far more trades that I've seen involving reds and browns than greens.

 

Pyrals have the two now rare by demand Alpine and Coastal version and the unloved Volcano that no one wants.

 

If you want to add in the occasionally not there dragons as rares like blusangs, you might as well throw in undines, 2 headed lundwurms, blood scales, nebulas, etc.

 

The only actual rare nebula I know of are alpine nebulas so theres sort of that.

 

So lets see Golds, Silvers, Coast Pyrals, Alpine Pyrals, Green Coppers, that's pretty much it that I've seen. so thats 5 breeds, if you want to throw in maybe blusangs, nebulas, GW, and the other two copper variants which are rare but not extremely hard to get thats 10. Lets throw in 2-3 more breeds just to be on the safe side, that's 12-13 breeds that are classified as rare either through demand or preset status.

 

Now compared to the list of uncommon and common dragons? That is such a small pool of dragons that if we added in one rare only this year it would make no difference. Heck add two and its only gonna entertain people for that time. Add in one rare every 2-3 months, that's something. One or two a year is a spit to nothing to make any difference.

 

Also having two separate methods of obtaining something isn't saying,

 

"You wont ever amount to anything since you cant hunt. Here have the scraps and go to the in game store".

 

Having an in game store is saying,

 

"Hey I understand you can't really hunt much for rares because [insert one of many obstacles here] and as such here's a chance for you to catch up to everyone else by earning your eggs as you play. No fast connection required, no fast reflexes, no top of the line computers needed, just time, dedication, and patience."

 

Isn't being able to earn something through time, dedication, and patience the whole point of the game. Even if you cant earn it that way in the cave, you can earn it that way in the store. Or are you telling me now that you completely undermind the store suggestion which I have seen you so excitedly suggest on and commenting on how great it would be to have something in the game that would allow you to get rares without the competition of the cave?

 

So please get your argument together first before you come to me and start spurting how my saying "if you cant hunt then lets work to gether to improve the store suggestion but don't take away the possibility to add in new rares and hopefully more frequently" as my trying to undermind the side of the community that has a hard time hunting the caves.

 

I place these arguments before you as a user who has never, and I mean never caught her own CB gold, silver, coast pyral, alpine pyral, copper, and etc. I have never managed to nab one. I can at best nab nebulas, and occasionally should lady luck smile on me, a few blusangs every once or twice a month or so. I can nab those because I hunt extensively now. I draw, take the time to sit there and watch the cave every 5 minute shuffle and then some, and sometimes hunt for hours. So the semi rares/uncommons I've managed to catch I've caught through patience and dedication. Given I have a decent connection and a semi decent laptop going for me, but I obviously don't have it so good if I haven't caught a single gold my self.

 

Now then. lets recap.

 

12-13 rares in a sea of commons and uncommons is barely anything. Some of these rares arent even that rare seeing as some are caught more often than not which leave us at a pool of 8-10 true rares either through set status or demand status. That's still not very much if you think about it.

 

Adding in two or three rares a year or so (either on purpose or through default of demand) does not equal a huge addition and as such a huge impact on the overall population of rares when at any given year we have an addition of anywhere between 12-20 ish new uncommon and common dragons. Even if out of those 12-20 new commons/uncommons a rare results, that's still not enough to make an impact.

 

Adding in more rares on a consistent basis (maybe at a ratio of for every 5-6 new common/uncommon breeds introduced we have 1 new rare introduced) can as a matter of fact change the focus of many players and spreading it out further and further amongst all the new rares, removing some of the strain on the already dwindling breeds and allowing them to even our and create more.

 

Along side adding more rare on a more regular and consistent basis, having the addition of a store for those who are unable to properly dedicate time to hunting or are unable to hunt the cave due to one of the many issues already mentioned will allow said users to be able to obtain said rares at a nice pace and be able to participate in scroll completion goals as well as the trading 'market' because they will have access to said rares within the store.

 

Being unable to hunt the caves for any of the previously mentioned reasons does not make any user less than anyone one other user and as such offering an alternative such as an in game store where these users will have constant access to all rare both old and new is not a form of degradation or insult, but instead a hopefully happy alternative that allows them to participate in scroll completion, lineages, and trading.

 

Now then, the floor is yours Syphoneria my friend. Can I say I sometimes enjoy discusing and arguing to some degree with you? Its fun and give me a chance to think of many ways to try and explain my point of view.

[Syphoneira]

Lol, that's what a discussion is!

 

 

For many of us, most of the time, Blusangs have been appearing about as often as Golds used to when I started, far less, really - mainly, I suspect, due to the relative lack of movement in the biomes compared to that often typical of the old Cave.

 

This is why Coppers tend to most often appear in the biomes which move most in order to uncover them.

 

 

The impact has clearly been much less for you than it has for many others, which doesn't alter the fact that this HAS effected them.

 

You've seen many of these dragons offered in trade - this doesn't mean that they're not hard to obtain for most people.

 

Heck, we've all seen masses of CB Golds offered in trade, lol, and I do know people on fast enough systems that they've been able to catch several in a day, but that doesn't make them easy or even possible for all of us to do that.

 

And while you and I have both caught the odd Blusang from time to time, that doesn't mean that unCommons appear the way they did in the old Cave, so that on my antique computer, I could catch and gift Papers.

 

And a good deal of this has to do with lack of movement in the biomes, while a good deal of that has to do with ratios.

 

 

But the overwhelming problem has very much to do with the 'trade fodder' issue, the very antithesis of catching dragons to personally collect, when valuing and catching dragons only to trade for something else, something which has given as a major reason for having these rares added in.

 

 

Why else introduce more dragons more people can't catch simply in order to have something else to trade that other people can't have?

 

You may not see this as a major directional change for DC, but I do:

 

'... Now for me, the addition of more rares would allow me to focus on more than just golds, silvers, pyrals, etc. I would have more than just the new commons that everyone and their dog can have and something fun to trade. Its not only valuable but new and challenging to get.

 

You don't have this ability and as such you continue to focus your time on the smaller things like your scroll, your breeding, your collection of common and uncommon dragons. All of these things such as breeding, hatching, freezing, raising, incubating, etc, allows you to build up points. ...'

 

 

But a truly inclusive family-site collecting game of this nature is one where everyone has a chance, however slim, to catch themselves any dragon, as it was when I first started.

 

And seriously, if you say you have '... never, and I mean never caught her own CB gold, silver, coast pyral, alpine pyral, copper, and etc. ...' how do you expect to catch NEW rares which *everyone* would be frantically trying to catch and which the fastest would be hoarding both for themselves AND for use as 'trade fodder'?

 

 

You'd be left out as badly as the rest of us - and I HAVE caught the odd Copper, (I saw two during the Release and caught one I spent room on) and of the 3 Pyralspites I've seen, I actually caught one in Alpine, (was lucky in the hourly lag that the screen froze with the dragons ON, for a change, rather than blank or with only one dragon showing on the far end, as usual) but stupidly dropped it by mistake for the other Volcano one which was locking me and had been up in another window when I needed to make room in a hurry and was grossly overtired. (It was darn close to hatching, too, lol, and I did not catch the only 2 others I've seen; very slow refreshes precluded my seeing most things, especially since the skin change, until this Release.)

 

 

So technically, I suppose you could say that even I might have a slightly better chance of catching an actual new rare than you, especially since the lag seems (knocks my wood-head to take the jinx off, lol) to have died down since this Release began and the Refreshes aren't nearly as slow for me now.

 

Do you want to wind up in a situation where multiple new rares are being Released and you can't catch them either?

 

I seriously doubt that anyone does.

 

Not catching things you want/need isn't fun.

[Tehya Faye]

The more rares there are in the cave the more likely you are to see a rare. You may not get it, but the fast catchers will get themselves egglocked more quickly than they do now. This allows other groups of people to get these rares who wouldn't have gotten them before. Adding more rares puts more rares into the hands of people who don't have a chance now because the group of legitimately fast catchers won't have the space to nab most of them.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Tehya Faye

[AnanoKimi]

I think you are failing to see the point. Lets recap this a bit simpler.

 

All inclusive family game. Yes everyone has a chance no matter what. You don't have to do the in game store, but you your self have already stated that there are users who cannot hunt due to time constraints, handicaps, or lack of modern or fast equipment. So Yeah these people have a chance. They have a chance now. A very, very slim one, but they have it. Now then. WHat you fail to see is that not adding new rares doesn't make their chances any better.

 

And seriously, if you say you have '... never, and I mean never caught her own CB gold, silver, coast pyral, alpine pyral, copper, and etc. ...' how do you expect to catch NEW rares which *everyone* would be frantically trying to catch and which the fastest would be hoarding both for themselves AND for use as 'trade fodder'?

 

Let me make this simple for you:

 

The more of something there is to spread out someone elses attention, the better chance others have a chance of getting something from it.

 

Lets say there was only one rare, Golds, 20 uncommons, and 40 commons. Everyone can get a common any day of the week, so hardly anyone gets them, Uncommons are nice, they're a bit more challenging, but not quite there. Golds, everyone wants golds. They want them so much the mommy dragons that supply the cave can't poop em out fast enough so there are very little. The few that do get pooped out are pounced on by hundreds of hunters until one emerges from the dog pile screaming in success and running away before anyone else notices.

 

every month, new common mommy dragons and uncommon mommy dragons appear and poop out new eggs. They're nice and all but we don;t have any new mommy dragons as rare as Golds, so everyone still wants golds. Old people, new people, slow people, and handicapped people cannot compete with the strong able hunters that all pile on and fight for the golds. Suddeny a change. Every two or three months a new rare mommy dragon appears and starts pooping out new, shiny, rare eggs. All the hunters see this and run off to get them. Soon the group is divided and so frantic to get the new shiny eggs and the old shiny eggs that in the confusion a gold egg or a shiny egg slips out of their hands. It rolls far away enough from the mess that a once sad hunter with no chance at fighting off the big strong hunters notices it and gleams with joy. The big strong hunters are so frantic trying to decide whether to get golds or the new shiny dragon that they let one slip through the fingers.

 

Soon more and more slip out. Not many, but enough that the few unfortunate souls who had but a sliver of a chance now have new hope. As the hunters settle down a month and a half later, things start to look like they may return to normal and the unfortunate hunters dread the imminent lack of once available shiny dragons. Two shiny dragons aren't enough. A few weeks later a new mommy dragon appears. Shes a new shiny and is pooping out all new rare shiny eggs. The mess and frantic struggle begins again. The Strong hunters barely had a chance to settle down and try to get the shinies they wanted and trade, another shiny so soon? Its chaos, and in the chaos, more shiny eggs roll away from the fray and to the feet of the less able bodied hunters. Its such a mess, the strong hunters cant decide if to hunt for golds, hunt for shiny #1 or the all new Shiny #2. They run back and forth, bumping into each other, missing the shiny egg and maybe grabbing an uncommon, in all this mess, the less fortunate hunters slink in and either nab some of the shinies from the nearby or simply let them roll away from the strong hunters who are busy wondering where to even start.

 

The cycle continues, the big hunters settle down a bit after a month or so of frenzy, the weaker hunters revel in their momentary fortune, and a few weeks to a month later, the strong hunters get frenzied again, trying to get at Shiny #3, letting some of the newer and older eggs once again slip through their fingers.

 

Some of the older hunters are too slow or too weak to even try and hunt in the cave. But fear not, a kind gentlman and his wife are expert hunters, even better than the strong hunters frenzied in the biome caves. These older, now feeble hunters offer the expert hunter some currency and in exchange the gentleman offers them a shiny gold dragon. This is the fourth shiny the feeble hunter has been able to buy ever since the gentleman appeared month back. The feeble hunter not only gets to avoid all the rough and tumble of the biome cave hunting, but they get to have their shinies if they work hard enough and earn enough currency. Let the younglings slink and tumble for the new eggs, this old timer is gonna sit back and enjoy the peace and quiet of his own cave while being paid to look for the dragons.

 

Do you see how it all works out? The more rares are added in, the better chance there is one slipping through someone's fingers either because they were too busy look elsewhere, or because they egglocked them selves. Once enough people egg lock themselves, the less able user can swoop in and snatch up the shinies. And even if they cant. The rest of the user base will be so focused in trying to get the new rare that breeds like golds, silvers, pyrals, etc will be neglected long enough to nab one up. On top of that should we add in the AP kick suggestion where after 5 minutes an egg gets kicked to the AP, the new biome movement, plus the focus in rare collection being else where means that the rares we once couldn't touch, become just that much more attainable.

 

Finally, with the shop in place, should a user's connection or condition be so bad that they can't effective hunt in the cave, they have the option of earning the currency and getting any rare they want from the shop which indefinitely houses all the rares and all the dragons currently in existence. So 5 Minute AP kick for biome movement, new rares every 2-3 months to spread out the shiny demand, a slight drop in rarity of all rare breeds, plus the shop for the truly unable to hunt, should equal a pretty damn good system if you ask me.

[Ribombee]

Story time with Anono! *Sit down and listens intently!*

 

This is exactly what I envision, as well. :3 Say there are 10 people in a biome at any given time (a pretty fair average other than during release weeks). Let's say all 10 of them are specifically hunting for rares. If the best rares to drop in the biome are silvers and golds, that is two possibilities for 10 people to fight over trying to be the fastest to click. Let's say 3 of those people are specifically looking for silvers, 5 are specifically looking for golds, and 2 are just hanging around looking for anything interesting. Now a person with a slower connection comes in, looking for gold. They have to compete with 5 other people who are primed to the gold description, 2 people who will click anything nice, and 3 people who will still probably go for gold if they happen to see the description in time. The 5 people who are specifically looking for golds are the most likely to notice them and click fastest.

 

Now, we have added in the alpine pyrals. Now of those 10 people, let's say even only ONE shifts from looking specifically for gold to looking for the pyral. Slower connection person comes in, and they only have to fight against 4 people who are specifically looking for that description.

 

If we add in another very rare, perhaps this number drops to 3. If the new very rare is the latest, hottest thing, that number will probably drop even lower, with more people looking specifically for the new very rare instead of golds. Now the person with the slow connection has the best possible chance to grab a gold that pops up while everyone else is primed to look for the description of the new very rare. Even evil scripters are probably going to be focusing on the new one.

 

Yes, that means that it will be pretty much impossible to get the new one...for a while. When the next latest and greatest comes out, it will be easier to get. It's exactly as someone (I think Syphoneira?) mentioned before with the blacks. They used to be the big thing to try to get, and now they are possible to get from the caves and even the AP (where they still go pretty darn fast!) because other things have become more popular. Yes, people with a slow connection will always be behind the times (again, this is why the store would be a lovely addition), but they CAN eventually get the very rares IF, and only if, people are diverted with something else. If the same very rares continue to be the only tip top of the line thing to get, there will never be a chance to get them at all for anyone but the fastest, best biome hunters.

 

This is me speaking from the perspective of an avid biome hunter. I could trade for pretty much anything I want, I have done so, and I really do not ever need to do so again, as things stand. I really don't actually need any more CBs of anything save for some common and uncommons that I am working on lineages with. I have 11 CB blusangs, 17 CB brown coppers, 13 CB red coppers, 6 CB green coppers (can you see the reflection of the actual rarities of coppers in my scroll), 18 CB red dorsals, 16 CB golden wyverns, 32 CB ices, 16 CB magmas, 21 CB tan ridgewings, and 29 CB thunders. I would say about 3/4 of these are ones I have caught myself. This is not a list to brag about how good of a hunter I am or wave it in anyone's face. This is to point out that I REALLY don't NEED to trade for any CB of anything (I have plenty of silvers and golds, too, though recent trades have bumped those numbers up to more than I have caught on my own). This being said, if a new very rare came out, I would very likely trade for THOSE, as would probably a reasonable percentage of prize owners, experimenters, and other people with high-value trade eggs simply because they DO have enough of everything else. The focus would shift to these new eggs, and while yes, it might still be difficult to catch golds, it would be EASIER when everyone else was scrambling to get the new eggs.

 

I am primed to see silvers, ices, and coppers, as these are what I most frequently hunt in the AP. I do not hunt magmas and golds as frequently, so when I spot them in the AP, I sometimes miss them entirely. I almost never miss an ice. I sometimes miss coppers because there are a lot of other people primed to see them, too. I more frequently miss silvers for the same reason, but I still get them pretty often when I do see them. This is exactly what I mean by people being primed to catch a certain thing, with most people who are hunting for trades looking for golds.

 

Also, people keep forgetting experimenting as a way to get very rares. It's a way that anyone can get an extremely valuable dragon as trade fodder (I heard that some people have been getting multiple CB metals for neglecteds recently), even if they can't cave hunt worth beans. Yes, it takes work, trial and error, and dedication. The same is true of becoming a good cave hunter. When I first started catching in the caves, I was TERRIBLE. As my scroll can attest, I have become a much better cave hunter, and that is through practice and development of that instinctual click at the right descriptions. Yes, I still need the fast computer/connection, but my point is that anything worth having takes practice and patience to develop the skill needed to get it. Some people spend the time becoming good cave hunters, others have become really good at getting neglecteds, and still others are amazing at trading up for what they want. I mean, I'm pretty good at getting trades, but some people just floor me with the amazing deals they manage to fanagle! In the trade question thread, someone just mentioned they got a 2nd gen prize for a CB silver and a CB almandine. Jaw on the floor.

 

There are multiple ways to skin a cat, to use a really horrid expression. Adding a store will only give players one more option to complete their scroll goals. One more that, from the discussion in that thread, will be easier than getting lucky and winning a prize, becoming a great cave hunter, or developing the skills needed to be an experimenter (I'm convinced it's magic).

 

The coppers actually vary in rarity amongst the colors. One color seems to be more coveted than another because there are far more trades that I've seen involving reds and browns than greens.

 

Pyrals have the two now rare by demand Alpine and Coastal version and the unloved Volcano that no one wants.

It's not just demand. I am an avid biome hunter, and I see the red and brown coppers way more than the green coppers. Same with the red pyrals. They pop up like commons. The other pyrals don't even pop up that often, though the spessartines seem a bit more common than the almandines.

 

GWs I don't think are rare either by actual drop or by demand. They're pretty hard to trade away for any other rares, and they tend to sit in the caves for several seconds, even minutes.

 

I don't really think it is entirely due to which biomes are moving, either, because there are generally less people in the desert and volcano (where the brown/red coppers and red pyrals are found), which means less movement. New releases in these biomes change this, of course, until everyone has them. However, I consistently see more people in the alpine and coast than anywhere else, yes the alpine and coast pyrals still show up less. It is not a matter of others grabbing them. I am there are the refreshes, but the pyrals are not. The next most frequented biome (again, not including right around a release) is generally the jungle. Forest viewers usually goes up right at the start of a season then tapers off. Desert and volcano are consistently the lowest viewed (again, with the exception of releases in those two). Those are almost always where I hunt for golds or silvers, unless I am specifically looking for something that only drops elsewhere.

 

So I would definitely classify green coppers are truly more rare, not just rare due to demand. I have caught most of my own coppers, and while I have a TON of browns and a fair amount of reds, my greens are quite lower in number, despite having specifically set out to catch greens. I have not specifically pyral hunted (They are fine as is, but I have not found a checker I really like them with yet), but having been in the biomes they drop in quite a bit, I can comment on how often I actually see them compared to other rares. Until very recently (past week or so, after the new release), I have seen silvers and golds more frequently than I have seen spessartine and almandine pyrals, whereas I see the red pyropes about as often as I see seasonals in the forest, if not more so. Perhaps this is an artifact of so many people loving the sprites that they breed a zillion of them and keep them and throwing off the ratios for CBs (though then I would expect to see them popping up in the AP once in the while, at least from accidental APing) or they are actually just very low drop rates.

[DarkEternity]

Rares should be introduced in a different way. For example, rares that are only obtainable through raising (and not trading for) a ton of common dragons.

 

- an unknown required number which results in a prize awarded to the catchers

or

- a prize which is only awarded to the top common collectors.

 

Adding more rares is only going to give people exactly the same handicap as before.

 

Playstyle for catchers - fast internet speed, good reflexes (rarest = 2g hollies, cb golds) <- most of the sub rares go here

Playstyle for current prizewinners - punctual and very lucky (rarest = cb prizes)

Playstyle for spriters - design a holiday dragon (rarest = unique spriter alt)

Playstyle for 'dailies' - remember to summon (rarest = GoN which most people get eventually)

Playstyle for patience - and the very mathematical/punctual (rarest = ND)

 

In my humble opinion it's the last two categories which are in the most need of buffing. GoNs can't be traded/aren't relatively rare-unobtainable and making NDs isn't really for everyone. (heck, having to identify the ToD is like trying to drive a sharp icicle into my brain, for mathematically incapable people.)

 

And really, really, if there's a prize dragon, say account bound, for 'you must collect these common dragons and can't trade for them' -- that's not cheatable.

 

More diverse ways of obtaining something - be it hybrid, or crafting or the dragon 'store' suggestion or summoning or collecting. That's really what need to be added, not more rares, which as some people have already said, can be exploited or is really just benefiting people with that particular playstyle.

Edited May 27, 2015 by DarkEternity

[Syphoneira]

AnanoKimi, I don't think you're getting my point either.

 

There are a lot of people already extremely discouraged over a lot of things, both in RL and at DC, where they come to get away from further discouragement.

 

Probably (I'd say almost certainly) most of the people here joined specifically because they could play DC without having fast systems and because it was non-competitive and allowed for individual playstyles; back in '08, everyone had some chance to catch whatever, with enough time and effort put in, and a lot of people joined then and stayed on through the years, despite numerous issues, always fighting for improvements.

 

Naturally, not everyone wants the same things, but look at what happens when we have dragons Released that everyone can catch reasonably quickly, and how miserable members get when they can't.

 

Were you on the threads when the last two Releases suddenly thinned out part-way, which was the last straw for some who'd been here years and had already been losing interest in the game since the Wall St. thing took over?

 

I dunno if any checked back to see that whatever glitch had been corrected, but many members come here to relax and have fun collecting dragons in their time off, and too many impediments and disappointments aren't things they want to deal with when they're looking for a break from these.

 

If we get a bunch more rares Released and go more heavily into the two-tier trade fodder Wall St thing, MORE people are going to give up and go away.

 

And the type of people who want a fast-paced competitive game aren't going to be happy with DC's basic set-up either, which generally consumes a week per step for many actions, so how long until they get sick of just grabbing and trading and go on their way?

 

6, 7, 8 years, potentially a life-time, like those being lost to this commercialization of DC dragons and the division into those RL wealthy/lucky-enough-to-have-fast-equipment and the RL unable-to-afford-fast-systems DC 2nd-class citizen?

 

That may be fine from your perspective, but what happens if the site winds up losing too many people and and isn't worth TJ's while any more?

 

 

And I really didn't want to bring up the scripters again, but they wouldn't do it if it weren't worth their while, and with enough of those on, we'll continue not even seeing anything labelled as trade fodder - more rares will encourage more scripts and extra scrolls to hold them, and the people using them likely wouldn't care about having a bunch burnt the way people who've put years of time and effort into building theirs would.

 

With this many people on the edge and so many people going on hiatus, or outright saying they they've lost interest, I'd say the last thing we need right now are more actual rares for people to not be able to get, while having their concerns dismissed because they're 'feeble hunters' who should not have a chance to catch new dragons themselves because the faster people want dragons only they can catch.

 

No concerns over any particular sprite - just ones that most other people won't be able to get, so that they can be traded for something else.

 

That's not a game I'd waste time on, and I say this after playing obsessively since '08.

 

 

[olympe]

Right now there are trades in Prize Central asking for new releases. I think that two CB Prize owners just posted and was said earlier by someone that she has all the Golds and Silvers that she needs for now. I'm thinking that their interest on rare new releases could forecast an opportunity, for example, broadening the trading market.

 

Afterthought on this suggestion: OK, I understand that cui bono does not apply in your case. What about cui malo? Bad for whom?

Bad for people with bad hunting luck and a scroll goal that includes several CB of *ever* breed? Probably the majority of players...

 

Adding in more rares has the very big possibility of diverting attention for the very tiny tiny pool of rares we have and making catching the rares we are currently having trouble with a bit easier. Scripters can only do so much and unless they have 20 different scrolls they can log in to or an endless supply of accounts to hunt the cave with, I think that everyone at some point for can have a chance once the scripters and the fast hunters have their fill.

I'm afraid that this would only mean that there are many more sprites I cannot get. I only have CB green coppers because I decided to grab them on the release day. The same goes for rainbow coppers, although I did manage one more since the release. With such an ample base, breeding lineages with these is a moot point for me, too, cutting me out of another important part of the game in regards to this breed. If there are more rares, I'd probably be unable to get enough of them to use them properly, too.

 

The dragons that went rare were first of all not meant to be rare. On top of that, the ones that went rare are not as abundant as the rares themselves. So the pool of rare or 'incredibly hard to obtain' dragons is a speck compared to the number of regular uncommon and common dragons. Basing your self on such a skewed reality is obviously not the best course of action.

Let's see. We have around 115 different eggs, give or take a few, that drop in the cave at any given time. Of those, golds, silvers, red and green coppers as well as pink and orange pyralspites are very hard to get. That's 6 out of 115. When I started, we had about 40 or so different eggs dropping in the cave, 5 of which were considered hard to get: golds, silvers, blacks and vines due to alts, and stripes. Splits and unbreedables were considered uncommon back then. Back when it was 5 out of 40 (12.5%), I couldn't catch them for the life of me then, so the percentage of rare breeds would need to be higher than that.

 

Right now, we have 5.2% rare breeds. That number would have to be tripled, at least, in order to change anything. And even then, it would still cut me out effectively of all of the then new rare breeds, both for catching and doing lineages - and that would have to be 18 breeds or so.

 

Thus, I'd rather see the number of the current rares increase to three times their current amoung than see three times as many rare breeds. The amount of rare eggs in the cave would be the same, yet it's fewer breeds way too many people can't get, while achieving the same chance for them of actually obtaining a rare as increasing the number of rare breeds.

 

Besides, with only two rare breeds, chances are that the market will get saturated in the long run.

 

Also, for users with crippling handicaps or connections on par with dial up have the option of supporting the shop suggestion alongside this one. If you feel incapable of hunting the cave, have little to no time to hunt the cave, or are crippled/handicapped enough to be unable to properly hunt the cave, then the shop suggestion is right over there and can be implemented along side an increase of rares.

Yeah, only getting enough rares to reach whatever one's scroll goal is will take three times as long if there are three times as many rares, while keeping the number of rare breeds even will allow people to reach their goals faster. (And I'm still talking about years, since current suggestions range from the ability to buy 1 to 2 rares a year from the shop.) So this suggestion comes across as incredibly generous and thoughtful. /irony You ask for a cake for players like yourself, but are willing to offer mere crumbs to be distributed among the rest.

 

The more rares there are in the cave the more likely you are to see a rare. You may not get it, but the fast catchers will get themselves egglocked more quickly than they do now. This allows other groups of people to get these rares who wouldn't have gotten them before. Adding more rares puts more rares into the hands of people who don't have a chance now because the group of legitimately fast catchers won't have the space to nab most of them.

Increasing the ratios fo the existing rares will have the very same effect. We might not get it, but the fast catchers will get themselves egglocked more quickly than they do now. This allows other groups of people to get these rares. Increasing the ratios of rares puts more rares into the hands of people who don't have a chance now. But it won't cut out big sections of the player base from whole breeds.

 

So, to make it simple for certain people who feel like making things simple for their opposition:

• Increasing the number of rare breeds by a certain amount would reap the same benefits as increasing the ratio of incave rares by the same amount. The chances for slower players to actually catch any rare are pretty much the same in both scenarios - if, indeed, the ratios are defined per breed and not per rarity group. If they're defined per rarity group, then the situation will only worsen with more rares, as the existing rares would become even rarer.

  numbers/examples: If ratios go 1 gold : 20 canopies, and you add another breed (gold2), it will change to 1 gold : 1 gold2 : 20 canopies, doubling the number of rares.

  If the ratios go 1 rare : 500 commons, and you add the rare breed gold2, only half of your rares will be golds, making golds themselves harder to obtain. And gold2s will be just as hard to obtain.

   

  Increasing the ratios of golds from 1 gold : 100 canopies to 2 golds : 20 canopies will double the amount of rares.

• Adding more rare breeds will keep a substantial part of the player base from being able to catch enough of them, much less breed lineages from them. Increasing the rare ratio won't do that, but will help players to finally get these rares.

• Friendly reminder: Being unable to catch a dragon you need/want is no fun. And frustrated players are more likely to leave. What do you think will happen if those players who're practically forced to raise mostly commons will leave in droves? Who will raise the commons needed to provide you with rares?

• A shop doesn't help much if the number of rare breeds gets increased, because with the shop, it will take a very long time of actively playing to be able to afford just one rare. If, for example, I'd need 4 years to get to my scroll goals with the current number of rare breeds, I'd need 8 years for twice that number of rare breeds. So, no, the shop idea doesn't make up for more rare breeds. Besides, who is to know whether TJ would implement the shop suggestion to "make up" for adding more rare breeds? There's no guarantee, so please don't tell anybody to flesh out another suggestion and leave you to this one without opposition.

[Tehya Faye]

I just think that the reduced strain on Golds will make it more likely for people to catch any of the new rares. It'll reduce the difficulty of catching rares, making the rares more available for lineage building and collections. Increasing the rate at which Golds are produced will work just fine too, I just don't think TJ would do that.

[DarkEternity]

You'd probably just end up with more miscellaneous rares that don't fit into the lineage you're trying to achieve, that's all.