Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

[edwardelricfreak]

Aren't they bringing back diving? I mean, they had diving in BW, and since the old R/S/E had them AND a whole CITY that was underwater I'd be surprised if they *didn't* bring it back!

 

Diving was awesome <3 Also I thought I'd already seen screenshots of underwaterness and isn't that part of the reason why the player character designs have a more swimsuit feel? I realize there's also just a lot of water in Hoenn but I mostly attributed it to having to go underwater.

 

As far as Pidgeot's stats go, keeping No Guard in mind....well first let's start with moves affected:

Hurricane

Air Slash

Toxic

Hyper Beam

Steel Wing

Giga Impact

Swagger

Fly

Air Cutter

 

(tutor moves, though only counting 5th gen ones because 6th gen is unknown)

Heat Wave

Sky Attack

Hm, lots of special moves. Pidgeot has slightly higher physical attack but maybe it will receive lots of special attack since almost all of its moves, even ones not affect by No Guard, are special.

 

Old:

HP: 83

Attack: 80

Defense: 75

Sp.Atk: 70

Sp.Def: 70

Speed: 101

Total: 479

 

New:

HP: 83

Attack: 90 (+10)

Defense: 75

Sp.Atk: 130 (+60)

Sp.Def: 70

Speed: 131 (+30)

Total: 579

 

idk just seemed like since it has No Guard it might as well go all out. :U Attacks and speed all the way. I figured it would get a passable physical attack (still does a decent amount of damage with Brave Bird, though it wishes it had Gale Wings instead!) but I see it mostly being a special attacker. It still has decent bulk imo, and thankfully it's decently fast normally so it won't have to wait too long to get even faster. Basically it's going to Hurricane the crap out of everyone, with Air Slash backup, to confuse+flinch people to death and Hurricane will even work in sun! Could lower attack with Feather Dance (or not, since that would lessen the damage they do to themselves), heal with Roost (with the benefit of the opponent damaging itself instead of attacking, giving Pidgeot a free healing turn), Whirlwind for phasing, Tailwing for team support+giving itself more speed and it a better alternative to Agility for teams (though Agility might be better in singles). Defog would be HIGHLY useful for hazard clearing though Pidgeot wishes it could retroactively remove them before coming out. Though gimmicky, Uproar could be used to prevent the opponent from using Rest while also doing decent STAB normal damage, but you're locked into the move so it might not be so useful and Soundproof/Ghost-types will put an end to it. U-Turn, Pursuit/Feint Attack, and Steel Wing could be coverage, but they aren't super useful unless on a mixed set, though Brave Bird would be the forte of that set.

 

...I think Pidgeot wishes its mega had Gale Wings. Priority Air Slashes and Hurricanes? Hell yes!

Edited October 11, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[TCA]

I feel like giving Mega Pidgeot No Guard was a bad idea because Stone Edge.

[edwardelricfreak]

yes that too! Geez GF why didn't you give it Gale Wings ;n;

[MasterWeavile898]

Honestly, they should be building it really balanced, like it was back in Gen I. Neither No Guard nor Gale Wings really fits that. I would have preferred something like Sap Sipper or Lightningrod that can act both defensively and offensively

 

EDIT: Which admittedly wouldn't make it fly much better competitively, but it would stay true t it's original design as the okay-ish all around newbie-bird

Edited October 11, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[CaesarZeppeli]

We'll have to build around the no guard, I guess. But yes that was a bad move by GF

[KoalaNoob]

I really like how nobody's paying any attention to Mega Beedril I can see why, though, Pidgeot really is more standout as an important early-game pokemon. Beedril is overtaken by Butterfree, so it's less iconic, I guess.

 

My thoughts on it are the same as with Pidgeot, though. It really can't get too good unless it gets some insanely broken ability,since even with the boost, it's stats are quite poor.

[CaesarZeppeli]

I like Beedrill but there are better bug Pokèmon out there, excluding Butterfree. It gets Adaptability when it Mega evolves which will boost all of it's Bug and Poison moves. Correct me if I'm wrong here, anyone.

 

It will be nice to have a boosted Twin Needle attack, or a boosted X-Scissor. Also a slight boost to Poison Jab would be nice.

Edited October 11, 2014 by ElementalMistressLuna

[TCA]

I'd like to see a Mega Venomoth.

[CaesarZeppeli]

Oh my! Mega Venomoth would be cool!

 

[KoalaNoob]

The thing is, Beedrill probably won't be too great even though it has Adaptability. Though its a great ability, Beedrill's STABs are both resisted by the kings of defence, steel types, and it's stats are still sub-par.

 

Mega Venemoth would be really cool though. A legitimately decent Quiver Dancer not named Volcarona? Sweet. It won't be amazing or anything, but hey, Quiver Dance. And it might even get Compound Eyes as a Mega, which I think it already has. It gets Sleep Powder, too, which is just awesome.

[TCA]

Venomoth normally has the options of Shield Dust, Tinted Lens, and Wonder Skin. Of these, Tinted Lens is the best by far- it means resisted hits are neutral, double-resisted hits are only single resisted.

 

This is already a very good ability and not very commonly distributed. I'd suggest Mega Venomoth should just always have that, like how Blaziken gets Speed Boost as HA and as Mega ability. It'd mean that a Venomoth with Wonder Skin could switch in on a now-50%-accuracy status move, set up, Mega and sweep with stuff that only single-resists its attacking types becoming comparatively useless to stop it.

[MasterWeavile898]

We're ignoring Beedrill because everything about it is perfect <3

 

And while Steel types may be an issue, you're not going to be punching them without an SE move from a physical sweeper anyways, so it doesn't matter too much. Meanwhile, Poison is great for Fairies and Bug hits... Um... Dark and Psychic... Okay, Bug is not the greatest STAB, but if nothing else M-Beedrill will be about to STAB Fairies in UU

Edited October 11, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[KoalaNoob]

We're ignoring Beedrill because everything about it is perfect <3

Haha, really? Do you think it'll be viable competitively? I don't really see how it could be, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion I guess.

 

Mega Beedrill makes me want Mega Vespiquen though. That'd be cool.

[MasterWeavile898]

It has Adaptability, the ability that took Lucario from just-barely-OU/UU to Ubers (1.5 to 2 tiers) It doesn't have the awesome Fighting type STAB, but it's still a super handy ability

 

It also has access to Drill Run and Knock Off from Gen V tutors if you're really that terrified of Steel types

 

Also, as it happens, current Beedrill is viable in NU. Just because it's in a lower tier doesn't mean it can't be used

 

Honestly the only thing bad about Beedrill is its terrible BST

Edited October 11, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[KoalaNoob]

But Lucario has nice defensive typing and nice STABS, unlike Beedrill. I like that they're giving the underdogs Megas, but I still doubt that things like. Pidgeot and Beedrill will get past UU.

 

It doesn't get STAB on either of those moves, though, and neither have exceptional BP. Drill run could be useful for the speed drop, though?

 

Its typing isn't exactly wonderful, either.

[MasterWeavile898]

You're acting like having Adaptability means STAB attacks are the only things it can use :/ Adaptability just means your STAB moves are handier. And when you have a nice offensive type like Bug (admittedly not as good as it used to be because of the Flying and Fairy dominance this generation) and Poison to smash Fairies. As well as great utility and mild coverage from Knock Off. Plus %100 accurate Toxics for wearing down walls, Swords dance to boost your stats,

 

Also Speed drop? Drill Run is high-crit

 

It actually has pretty great typing.

 

Offensively Bug+Poison is NFE on 115 Pokemon and SE on 176, also it can't hit Shedinja. Adding Ground makes that NFE on 14 Pokemon. All Flying types that, if you'll pardon the pun, you should bug out of there if you see. And makes it SE on 367 Pokemon. Swapping Ground for Dark makes it 9 NFEs, most of whom are fairly common (Mawile, Klefki, Lucario...) And is only SE on 233 Pokemon (but again, Knock off is great utility)

 

Defensively you have five weaknesses and four resistances. Psychic doesn't see all the use it used to, and it has to fear your Bug attacks switching in, so that isn't a worry. Fire runs pretty rampant in UU, and that's what your main fear is going to be. Watch them Victini. Rock is really common for coverage, so there's that. And the thee main Flying types in UU are all extremely fast, so you really shouldn't be staying in on them

 

Also, you remember that Fighting type I mentioned? You only take 1/4 damage from that. Same with Grass, though that's not about much offensively. The other two types you resist are your own. And while Poison remains a handy resistance, UU still holds a want for Bug STAB (another reason Beedrill will likely land there, there aren't any others)

 

You do also happen to have that Poison typing. And guess what entry hazard sees a lot of use in UU? Toxic Spikes. This means that not only are you immune to common and annoying threat, but you take it away for the rest of your team when you enter. Sadly, you are weak to Stealth Rock, meaning that you do still have to be wary switching in

 

And again, I cannot stress that OU =/= competitively viable. I don't expect Beedrill in OU, Scizor already does its job far better. But it looks set up to land in UU, possibly as low as RU since Toxicroak and Lucario are in UU (and both are equally good at Fairies whilst having the coveted Fighting type)

 

Way too many people think as if OU is the only tier in existence, or at least the only one that gets played. This ignores the fact that most all other tiers, and even side metagames like Inverted and Little Cup, have very large followings. Not every Pokemon can be OU, that would cause there to be a whole lot of Pokemon all doing the same job

 

EDIT: Also, there's a lot of Dark types in UU

Edited October 12, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[edwardelricfreak]

I really like how nobody's paying any attention to Mega Beedril I can see why, though, Pidgeot really is more standout as an important early-game pokemon. Beedril is overtaken by Butterfree, so it's less iconic, I guess.

 

My thoughts on it are the same as with Pidgeot, though. It really can't get too good unless it gets some insanely broken ability,since even with the boost, it's  stats are quite poor.

I was going to move on to Beedrill after I read about it more. I know very little about Beedrill because its type is dreadful and the only thing it ever really had that was unique was Twineedle, and it's not even unique anymore.

 

HOWEVER, it MIGHT see a rise given its decent attack, speed, and special defense, which will probably be the "high"lights of its mega form. Poison STAB is amazing, though I think usually poison coverage is better due to Poison's AWFUL weakness. At least Bug typing saves Beedrill from ground moves...but not really because its physical defense is pitiful and it has nothing to kill them with.

 

*sigh* let's do this I suppose...

 

Old:

HP: 65

Attack: 90

Defense: 40

Sp.Atk: 45

Sp.Def: 80

Speed: 75

Total: 395

 

New:

HP: 65

Attack: 130 (+40)

Defense: 80 (+40)

Sp.Atk: 25 (-20)

Sp.Def: 80

Speed: 115 (+40)

Total: 495

 

Huh, well. I decided maybe Beedrill might not have its physical defense touched. It still can't really tank hits but at least it shouldn't immediately die, I suppose. I decided to take away from special attack because why does it need it?

 

Alternatively, we could also go...

 

New:

HP: 65

Attack: 150 (+60)

Defense: 40

Sp.Atk: 25 (-20)

Sp.Def: 80

Speed: 135 (+60)

Total: 495

 

All-out physical sweeper with extremely hard-hitting STABs. Who cares about the rest of its stats.

 

I'm not going to bother upping its special defense, honestly. Why bother? Psychic and Fire will still destroy it, no matter what, with those pitiful hit points.

 

However, with such high speed+attack, Fell Stinger would be a great finisher move that boosts Beedrill's insane attack even higher.

Edited October 12, 2014 by edwardelricfreak

[KoalaNoob]

I think I like the second one more. It isn't weak too any priority, and resists a few, too, so the high speed could be really useful. And that attack stat is amazing, IMO. A lot of Megas are better than it, but 150 in any stat is still insane.

 

It would require team support though, and hazards, just to weaken everything enough that it can KO them. I also don't see it able to switch in on much, but it could do great if something was sacked to give it free entrance into battle.

 

Oh, and it'd be a great check to the Lati twins. It wouldn't be able to switch in, but it could easily revenge kill them.

 

Actually, Rotom-W and Rotom-H have pathetic base HP and are still fairly competent. :3

[edwardelricfreak]

Well, the first one gives it passable defenses while still having decent attack and speed. I agree about preferring the second one, though. Might as well go for broke, right?

 

It hits hard. It hits fast. It revenge kills stuff and gets crazy high attack from Fell Stinger. Even if it resists priority it still hates it because of its insanely low physical defense. Gale Wings Talonflame is the bane of its existence.

 

At least it has Pursuit. Considering its raw power + Fell Stinger boosts, it could probably force some switches, so Pursuit is useful. Mega Beedrill really wishes it had a priority move, though, even if it isn't STAB, just to get ahead of anything that might take advantage of its low defense. It really wants Sucker Punch at the very least but it doesn't have hands, just big needles that make it hard to hold anything. :c

[KoalaNoob]

65/80/80 isn't that great anymore, though. Actually, that's almost the same as Azumarill, who technically has higher attack, better bulk and way better typing plus the ability to use an item. :c I mean, it'll help Beedrill a bit, but not against many significant threats. And, it's total lure for will-o-wisp Rotom-W. The second one would really love Tyranitar as a partner, though. SR+Talonflame counter. And, Beedrill can take the fighting moves that Tyranitar can't.

 

It has room for fell stinger, too, which is great. Despite fell stinger's lower power, I think 150 base attack more than makes up for it.

 

Yeah, and it can trap Psychics and Darks fairly well, too. This thing isn't nearly as bad as I originally thought.

Edited October 12, 2014 by KoalaNoob

[CaesarZeppeli]

Thought* (your last word)

 

It isn't bad, but there are still many other Pokèmon that can potentially one shot it. Also for speed Accelgor easily trumps it being the fastest bug in the competitve scene. Even a Protean Greninja with Aerial Ace can take it on fairly well. Greninja is in the top 15 of speedy Pokèmon when I last read during X and Y.

 

It may have the upper stinger against Fairies but there are still the tankier ones like Sylveon and Togekiss. Sylveon can handle a few poison type hits and Togekiss can paraflinch you with Air Slash. I have raised an entirely poison countered Sylveon, which can also go toe to toe with Tyranitar. It may not last if poisoned by Toxic, but you will never run just a fairy out if there is a poison out opposing it. Most people would run a decent dual fighting or fire type out that can remove the threat and double up on the partner.

Edited October 12, 2014 by ElementalMistressLuna

[KoalaNoob]

Yeah, most offensive pokemon can easily be OHKO'ed. The point is that they trade defenses for speed and attack/sp. atk. Heck, even a lot of defensive and stall pokemon can be OHKO'ed by the right attack from the right pokemon. And... Why would you be using Accelgor anyways? It's fast, and can set hazards fairly well, but it's down in NU for a reason. And, Greninja is outspend by the second list of stats, which happens to be the one we were mainly talking about. Besides, aerial ace is terrible. Nobody should be using a Greninja with aerial ace. Heck, nobody should be using aerial ace at all. Greninja's more of special attacker, anyways.

 

Honestly, there are about four viable fairies in OU: Clefable, Sylveon, Togekiss, and Klefki. The only one commonly seen is Clefable. Klefki is something I see maybe once in 100 battles, and it doesn't have the best defenses, anyways. Drill run=dead. Sylveon has crappy physical defense (65, if I remember correctly) and will easily die to a couple poison jabs (maybe just one, I'm too lazy to go do a damage calc). Togekiss is in the same boat as Sylveon, and though 95 is much better than 65, it's still dying to two poison jabs. Even with a scarf, it can't flinch Beedrill to death because Beedrill is faster, plus it's weak to SR and Beesrill can easily nail it on the switch. Oh, and Clefable has even less physical defense than Togekiss, and though it can run cosmic power, that set is pretty unviable. Also, people don't run toxic on sweepers. It's not a good idea.

 

And... Most people run at least one fire/fighting or one fire/psychic? Off the top of my head, I can remember one FE fire/psychic (Delphox) and two fire/fightings (Infernape and Blaziken), and neither are viable in OU and mega Blaziken is uber. Delphox is really bad, too, and outspend and OHKO'ed by both drill run and knock off.

 

Just out of curiosity, do you battle competitively? I don't mean this offensively, but what you've said shows little proof that you do much competitive battling.

[MasterWeavile898]

It hits hard. It hits fast. It revenge kills stuff and gets crazy high attack from Fell Stinger. Even if it resists priority it still hates it because of its insanely low physical defense. Gale Wings Talonflame is the bane of its existence.

 

At least it has Pursuit. Considering its raw power + Fell Stinger boosts, it could probably force some switches, so Pursuit is useful. Mega Beedrill really wishes it had a priority move, though, even if it isn't STAB, just to get ahead of anything that might take advantage of its low defense. It really wants Sucker Punch at the very least but it doesn't have hands, just big needles that make it hard to hold anything. :c

I shall once more emphasize UU, no Talonflame to worry about. Crobat's Brave Birds will be the issue there

 

And I expect SD+X-Scissor/Twineedle (breaks Sashes so might be worth it)>Fell Stinger

 

EDIT: Also, Cosmic Power Clefable is anything but unviable. Thanks to unaware and Moonlight/Wish, it can make it almost impossible to kill

Edited October 12, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[KoalaNoob]

I shall once more emphasize UU, no Talonflame to worry about. Crobat's Brave Birds will be the issue there

 

And I expect SD+X-Scissor/Twineedle (breaks Sashes so might be worth it)>Fell Stinger

Actually, the second set out speeds Crobat. I don't think it can OHKO, though, so it doesn't matter much, I guess.

 

And honestly, I think the second stat list Eef made could very well be viable in OU. It'd need support, but hey, a lot of Pokemon do anyways. You were entirely right when you said it could be pretty decent.

 

EDIT: CP Clefable is prone to getting hit by crits, though. It's generally outclassed by the CM variant, apparently, according to Smogon. I soon have much experience with Clefable personally, I trust Smogon. You're probably right though.

Edited October 12, 2014 by KoalaNoob

[CaesarZeppeli]

Yes I do and have actually won quite a few battles. I have used plenty of recommended set-ups by top competitive sites and played on the online rankings. I'm not an expert but nor am I completely stupid. I am still working on knowing things. Although I know some of the Pokèmon I said aren't the best they've performed well for me. I use Accelgor thank you, it is one of my favorite bug Pokèmon. Yes, Sylveon has bad defence as does Kiss but please don't slam me for my experiences. It took me until x and y to come out and actually battle, I didn't like it and I thought I would suck. I hate not knowing everything and it's hard to know when everyone has different opinions on Pokèmon. Forgive me sounding like I did....and outsped is the word you are looking for not outspend.

 

Perhaps I won't continue in the competitive scene in these games. I will also leave this thread.

Edited October 12, 2014 by ElementalMistressLuna