Pokemon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire

[KoalaNoob]

Yes I do and have actually won quite a few battles. I have used plenty of recommended set-ups by top competitive sites and played on the online rankings. I'm not an expert but nor am I completely stupid. I am still working on knowing things. Although I know some of the Pokèmon I said aren't the best they've performed well for me. I use Accelgor thank you, it is one of my favorite bug Pokèmon. Yes, Sylveon has bad defence as does Kiss but please don't slam me for my experiences. It took me until x and y to come out and actually battle, I didn't like it and I thought I would suck. I hate not knowing everything and it's hard to know when everyone has different opinions on Pokèmon. Forgive me sounding like I did....and outsped is the word you are looking for not outspend.

 

Perhaps I won't continue in the competitive scene in these games. I will also leave this thread.

Apologies if I offended you, that wasn't my intention. I merely disagreed with most of what you said. Honestly, I don't think I was particularly insulting? I was just sharing my opinion which happened to clash with yours and explaining why.

 

Also, I mostly use mobile, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to correct every auto-correct. It's a pain to fix, and it's just kind of annoying.

 

Oh, Kyra, X-Scissor over Twineedle or Twineedle over X-Scissor? I'm trying to make a set, but can't decide which is the better move. Subs are darn annoying, but the power could be handy? I dunno. x)

[MasterWeavile898]

Pin Missile, actually

 

Pin Missile and Twineedle have the same power, and both are guaranteed to hit at least twice, but Pin Missile can also hit more. At three hits (the most likely result) it has 75 total power, only 5 short of X-Scissor. The minor loss in accuracy is certainly worth the risk

 

Also the second set might be able to survive it OU, yes. But Beedrill itself will still be UU, because there are already OU Pokemon, namely Scizor, that do everything it can do but better

 

EDIT: Oh, almost forgot, CM Clefable is usually a special tank, not a wall, so it's kind of a totally different situation than CP. It really comes down to whether you want to run a support Clefable (Wish, Heal Bell, etc) or a flat out wall (CP, Moonlight, etc) in terms of defensive sets

Edited October 12, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[KoalaNoob]

Okay, thanks. I'm honestly not too familiar with most pokemon not in OU, UU, or Uber.

 

I have to disagree. Scizor is more of a tank, it takes hits and dishes back damage. It's too slow to be a sweeper, even it's technician bullet punch isn't enough to properly sweep. But, yeah, it is better than Beedrill overall.

 

Okay, that makes sense. In PS!, most Clefables are bulky attackers, so I guess different simulators have different people using different sets.

[MasterWeavile898]

Um, no, Scizor is generally considered a physical setup sweeper or revenge killer

 

Also BP+Bug Bite is more than enough to sweep, so long as you kill any opposing Fire types first

[KoalaNoob]

The most common sets I see are CB or AV, though? I've seen maybe one or two agility or SD sets, so pardon me if this is another case of different trends on different simulators. I still don't really see how BP and bug bite are enough to sweep, though. It doesn't have much coverage outside of Superpower and Pursuit, one of which decreases a necessary stat and the other, even with technician boost, isn't enough to OHKO much that isn't weak to it.

[MasterWeavile898]

I can't get the calculator I usually use to work, so I can't give calcs. I'll show you later

 

Never seen an AV Scizor, but I can certainly see it working

 

Since you've already stated you like Smogon: http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/scizor

 

Pretty much any set there with a Scizorite will run equally well with a Life Orb (barring the Impish one, that wouldn't handle the recoil well) Scizorite is preferred because no recoil, but sometimes you want a different mega. Personally I use the Swords Dance one with the Lum Berry option, except swapping X-Scissor for, something else I can't remember because I never need it (Also Bug Bite hits harder than X-Scissor with Technician)

Edited October 13, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[KoalaNoob]

Okay, sure. Thanks, by the way, you're so much more experienced than I am. Just a lowly newbie here. ^^;

 

AV Scizor is great. It can actually tank HP Fires from a lot of more defensive pokemon.

 

Eh, I still prefer prefer bulky Scizor. It can tank plenty of hits considering its offensive nature, and the speed, even with a powerful priority move, just doesn't do it for me. Life Orb's recoil really hurts, too, because of the bulkier builds I use. I guess it would be really good for more aggressive spreads though, since 130 atk is nothing to laugh at. Although, now that you've pointed out SD, I'm really realizing how deadly that could be if Scizor got a free turn.

Edited October 13, 2014 by KoalaNoob

[MasterWeavile898]

Free turn? No need. So long as you can come in one a physical attacker you can just Roost away the damage after you SD. Then just BP all the things. Most stall Pokemon won't be able to take you down (Toxic immunity FTW!) and you can just SD more to take them out (Quagsire is an issue of course, but that wrecks any Scizor) You have to watch Will-O-Wisps, but if you can get off an SD you can kill most Pokemon in one or two hits, unless they're specifically a physical wall

[KoalaNoob]

Not every set runs Roost, though. That's a standard move on most bulky offence teams, but for HO, it usually goes CB or LO with SD. Also, there's a lot of physical attackers that Scizor can't really switch in on, like Talonflame and Excadrill. 70/100 defence is great for an attacker, but against some of the metagame's nukes, it doesn't suffice. Scizor onto has one weakness, but it doesn't have many important resistances either. I know it's a matter of eliminating threats and then bringing in your sweeper, but eh. Also, Rotom-W is one of the most used pokemon (I'm pretty sure it was #1 recently, but I'm not sure) and it usually carries Will-o-Wisp, quad resists BP, and can survive Bug Bite with room to spare, especially if Scizor is burned.

 

Quagsire is an issue for pretty much any setup sweeper >_>

 

Oh, and whoo, Hyperbole and a Half reference.

Edited October 13, 2014 by KoalaNoob

[MasterWeavile898]

I was referring to Scald's burns. Scizor can take it down without boosts just fine, but burns kinda screw it over

 

Rotom-W, right, forgot that one. I do believe I said just about anything with Will-O-Wisp screwed Scizor over anyways

 

Also as it happens Swords Dance sets do often run Roost (like tha tone I indicated on the Smogon page) it helps mitigate the Life Orb damage and pretty much makes you free to set up

 

I mentioned Talonflame at some point before this. Scizor isn't sweeping until all their Fire types are out (though IIRC a boosted BP does nearly %50 to Talon, so you can at least wreck that)

 

Also, you stated it doesn't have any important resistances. If so, why are you running it as a tank? The whole point of a tank is to just take hits and hit back. Important resistances are key to winning

 

Most commonly you'll see Scizor as a revenge killer with a Choice Band. But it has so many different options you really can't know until it's attacked you

 

Also, do recall that this discussion was about whether or not Scizor could outperform M-Beedrill. Does Beedrill not have all the same issues you mentioned above? Certainly it can't switch in on Talonflame or Excadrill. What does it have that hits Rotom-W hard? Does Will-O-Wisp not cripple it as well?

 

But in addition, Beedrill also needs to force something out to get off a Swords Dance, Scizor just needs something that can't kill it. Beedrill has no recovery, though it will probably be dying too fast to care, Scizor does. Scizor has priority, Beedrill doesn't (though the hopeful massive speed boost should help make up for that) Etc

 

Scizor easily outperforms it as a setup sweeper, Bug STAB user, and Fairy killer. Just because there's other things it does even better doesn't mean it can't already do Beedrill's job perfectly well. Thus, Beedrill is headed to UU where it can thrive

Edited October 14, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[edwardelricfreak]

It may have the upper stinger against Fairies but there are still the tankier ones like Sylveon and Togekiss.

Sylveon is a special wall, NOT a physical one. It might be able to take weaker hits but even fully invested probably won't save it from STAB+Adaptability Poison Jabs, especially if Beedrill DOES end up with insanely high physical attack. Even Togekiss is scared, though it's much more bulky.

I shall once more emphasize UU, no Talonflame to worry about. Crobat's Brave Birds will be the issue there

 

And I expect SD+X-Scissor/Twineedle (breaks Sashes so might be worth it)>Fell Stinger

I realize Talonflame isn't UU, but just because it isn't doesn't mean no one would use Mega Beedrill (well, that hypothetical one or even just in general) in OU, where Talonflame WOULD be. Talonflame would be the thing potentially definitely keeping Mega Beedrill UU/lower tier is what I meant. c:

 

It's not Brave Bird it's scared of so much as priority Brave Bird. Even if it DID have 135 base speed (which outspeeds Crobat, though I imagine Crobat will have a Scarf to boost speed. If it doesn't, maybe taking boosted attack instead since it needs it, M-Beedrill stands a chance), priority trumps that.

 

Well, I was thinking Fell Stinger would be a back-up move, NOT the main bug move M-Beedrill uses. It's more for revenge killing. What it lacks in priority it makes up with a +2 attack bonus. It's sort of like Moxie but it's two stages and you have to use that one attack. :U I can't really see Twineedle being used BUT it might be used in place of Fell Stinger or something. I was thinking a moveset would be something like X-Scissor, Poison Jab, Swords Dance, and then one last move of either Pursuit, Fell Stinger, Twineedle/Pin Missile (I'd rather have Twineedle for accuracy and chance of Poison, even if it isn't badly poisoning like Toxic), Knock Off (5th gen only), Drill Run (5th gen only), or U-Turn. U-Turn might not be so good, especially since all of Beedrill's buffs get wiped, but it could be nice for getting out of danger. Could use Endeavor if you REALLY wanted to be gimmicky, though I doubt Beedrill would last with low HP, or even get to low HP (I imagine it would just get KOd instead). Not sure how well it could use it since it wouldn't be all that bulky, but it also has Roost as an option.

 

------

 

I do think that second set M-Beedrill would be absolutely stunning in UU. It's free of competition from Scizor and the terror of Talonflame, though I do think on the right teams it's good for OU, but it itself is definitely UU.

[KoalaNoob]

I honestly saw it more as a revenge killer/late game sweeper. Scizor cleans better, but I do think Beedrill is the superior sweeper.

 

Personally, I'd say it'd be banned to BL pretty quick. There are just a few key reasons why it might not be OU material, but unless were missing something vital in our theorymon, it'd tear UU apart. The only thing that could sort of counter it is scarf crobat, and pretty much any rock type can deal with it.

[MasterWeavile898]

Aerodactyl is base 130 and a Rock type, also M-Aerodactyl is faster, has better attack, better defenses, Stealth Rock, and tops Crobat. If M-Aerodactyl is UU, Beedrill will be fine. Any physical tank can probably one or two shot it (assuming the faster one) or there will be plenty of things that outspeed/tie with it (assuming slower, bulkier one)

 

Also I think you forget that tiers outside Ubers are based on usage, KN, so since Scizor outperforms Beedrill, Beedrill won't get used as much, Beedrill will be in a lower tier

 

And yeah, I know it will get used in OU at least some, even Charizard got used in OU (and not just by people mimicking Red, by people seriously using it)

 

Beedrill is going to need some good tutors to stay useful though

 

Also, let me do some slightly mangled math for you, Sci (lots of approximations because I don't want to do this with one thousand turns of random samples. Plus I still can't get that damage calculator to work):

Assuming Pin Missile gets three twos(%30), three threes(%30), two fours(%20), and two fives(%20), and misses on a turn it would have gotten five(%5), across ten turns(%100) it's power would be as follows:

3*50 (three turns of two hits)

+

3*75 (three turns of three hits)

+

2*100 (two turns of four hits)

+

1*125 (two turns of five hits with one miss, so one turn of five hits)

=

700 Total Power

 

Twineedle across ten turns with no misses:

500 Total Power + 2 Poisons (assuming it triggered exactly %20 of the time)

 

Obviously it won't go exactly like that every time, but you can clearly see how much better Pin Missile is. Poison certainly isn't to be laughed at, but considering you'll probably be doing a lot more than 1/8th of their HP with an extra 25 power (unless they're a wall, in which case why is Beedrill attacking them anyways?)

 

A %5 miss chance isn't worth much when you get an ~%40 power boost (I'd actually round it down since it's per attack that those percentages get used and %20 is rounded up from %16.7, I'd say it's actually closer to a %30 power boost)

 

EDIT: Oh, and just so you know, you'd have to get nine two hits with one miss to do less damage than Pin Missile (Technically eight two-hits and one three-hit works as well) Since Two and three have equal likelihood, the chances of this happening are miniscule

 

Also, these are average damages. I guess if you have terrible luck and miss %5 chances a lot then you could avoid Pin Missile, but in that case go X-Scissor 80>50, even with Poison

Edited October 14, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[KoalaNoob]

Um, no? I was talking about the second list of stats. Mega Aerodactyl is still faster, but Beedrill has higher attack. Mega Aerodactyl's offensive moves don't have great power unless they're rock type, too.

[MasterWeavile898]

Oh, my apologies, I forgot quite how high Sci put it's attack. Even so, I'm fairly certain Tough Claws means Aerodactyl hits just fine, even with 15 less base attack. I mean, Excadrill has the same attack stat and doesn't have Tough Claws, and it's one of the best sweepers in the game

 

And even then, M-Aerodactyl still trumps it in every other way. Better typing, better defenses, better Speed, better movepool, Tough Claws... If M-Aerodactyl isn't wrecking UU (Esp with all the Fire types there) /M-Beedrill will be perfectly fine

 

Also did I mention that literally every Fire type except maybe Houdoom is a major threat to Beedrill? And that UU has a ton of them?

 

Oh, and one last thing I'd like to address

I honestly saw it more as a revenge killer/late game sweeper

Last generation Scizor was considered to be the best revenge killer in OU, and as far as I know it hasn't lost that title either. As far as being a sweeper, if Scizor is going to be it, then you want it to be late game, since you have to make certain all threats are eliminated first

 

I see Beedrill running very similar to SD Blaziken

[edwardelricfreak]

Oh that's right, I've forgotten how rampant fire types are in UU (simply because there are too many really really good fire types that do the jobs even better in higher tiers...). I'm not really super involved in the competitive area so I don't always know, but I do know there are several UU fire types. I think Beedrill using Poison Jab will be its main way of dealing with them, though may not necessarily kill them. The poison damage from it might, though.

 

Beedrill really wishes it had priority moves and other moves to help cover its weaknesses. :c

 

Hey I don't think I did Rayquaza yet

 

Old:

HP: 105

Attack: 150

Defense: 90

Sp.Atk: 150

Sp.Def: 90

Speed: 95

Total: 680

 

New:

HP: 105

Attack: 170 (+20)

Defense: 100 (+10)

Sp.Atk: 170 (+20)

Sp.Def: 100 (+10)

Speed: 135 (+40)

Total: 780

 

or screw defense

 

New:

HP: 105

Attack: 175 (+25)

Defense: 90

Sp.Atk: 175 (+25)

Sp.Def: 90

Speed: 145 (+50)

Total: 780

 

Slightly weaker but faster:

 

New:

HP: 105

Attack: 170 (+20)

Defense: 90

Sp.Atk: 170 (+20)

Sp.Def: 90

Speed: 155 (+60)

Total: 780

 

Same speed as first set but more muscle:

 

New:

HP: 105

Attack: 180 (+30)

Defense: 90

Sp.Atk: 180 (+30)

Sp.Def: 90

Speed: 135 (+40)

Total: 780

 

yaaaay I'm really tired

 

extremely fast mixed sweeper that doesn't really care if it gets hit? ok

[MasterWeavile898]

I expect it'll be close to the first one. I shudder at the thought. Time to carry Ice Shards (Which are hopefully still 2x effective)

 

And yeah, Beedrill will still dent most Fire types (Esp. with Drill Run) But it still has to be careful around them

Edited October 14, 2014 by MasterWeavile898

[Moonlight_Eevee]

Gosh, it's numbers like these that make my head hurt. I really don't care about the stats a Pokémon has, if I catch it and I train it, I'm not getting rid of a Pokémon based on stats, sure it will be more powerful depending on what ability and what nature it has, but there's too many numbers to keep up with and I for one am not about to do all that math just to have a powerful Pokémon.

[edwardelricfreak]

Mega Glalie and Mega Steelix announced:

 

 

Mega Glalie is probably the creepiest thing I've ever seen, but Mega Steelix is AWESOME! I hate normal Steelix but this made me love it <3

 

I imagine Steelix will become even more of a wall while Glalie becomes even tankier and stronger, or at least just stronger. Not sure why they didn't give it Strong Jaw, though! I mean, LOOK AT ITS MOUTH. D: I guess Refrigerate is okay. It changes Headbutt (the only level up move), Hyper Beam, Frustration, Return, Facade, Round, Explosion, Giga Impact, Bide, and Snore (5th gen only). Aside from Hyper Beam and Return/Headbutt I actually really don't see much use for the ability, to be fair.

 

Will post stats later.

 

The first details from the Pokémon ORAS demo have come in and have revealed Mega Steelix. We're still working on getting details so please stand by. Mega Glalie is also in the demo. Mega Steelix gets the Sand Force ability

Edit @ 17:51: Mega Glalie gets the ability Refrigerate and is pure Ice-type

 

----

 

The Pokémon Company has uploaded a new trailer which showcases all of the new information and Mega Evolutions from the past week.. The US demo will come through the October Trainer Club News Letter

Some new screenshots have been added to our Pre-release screenshot page

Edit @ 16:13: On the Global Link, there will be a special ORAS League. In this league, you can use only Pokémon that you can catch during regular gameplay, hatch from an Egg, obtain within the game, or that were officially gifted in either Pokémon X, Pokémon Y, Pokémon Omega Ruby, or Pokémon Alpha Sapphire. In the XY League, ou can battle using Pokémon X or Pokémon Y. You can use any Pokémon you caught in those games, as well as any Pokémon brought to your game using the Nintendo 3DS downloadable software Poké Transporter.

The special battle rules for Season 7, the first season following the release of Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, have been decided! All battles will be Double Battles, and will feature Pokémon listed in the Hoenn Regional Pokédex in Pokémon Omega Ruby and Pokémon Alpha Sapphire (some Pokémon excluded)!

The DexNav in the PokéNav Plus has a search level as you find Pokémon. As this Level increases, you can find Pokémon with Hidden Abilities & Rare moves. You can even mark Pokémon in the area that you have seen and haven't seen.

In the AreaNav, there is also tracking of Pokémon locations, as well as the return of the Trainer's Eyes and the ability to keep track of Secret Bases and Berries

Buzz Nav has information such as television shows, and you can even receive information for it with StreetPass

The PlayNav retains all features of the PSS, Super Training and Pokémon Amie

Edit @ 18:02: I have updated the Mega Evolutions page & created a page for Soaring in the Sky

Edit @ 18:25: Created pages on PokéNav Plus & Special Battle

Edit @ 18:39: Interview at USGamer confirms that Trainer Customisation is not in this game

Edit @ 20:00: It has also been confirmed in an interview with NTower that, although X & Y are compatible with Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, X & Y will not receive a patch to include the new Mega Evolutions and Primal Reversions.

 

Two things here that I have issues with...

Edit @ 18:39: Interview at USGamer confirms that Trainer Customisation is not in this game

Edit @ 20:00: It has also been confirmed in an interview with NTower that, although X & Y are compatible with Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, X & Y will not receive a patch to include the new Mega Evolutions and Primal Reversions.

D:

[CaesarZeppeli]

Wow Mega Steelix! So, that means no changing of fashion on May/Brendan I am assuming?

[edwardelricfreak]

I realize since Kalos was based on France, the trainer customization was reflecting the fashion and beauty of France but still! I would have liked it to stay and maybe even get more items/replace them with ones that fit the setting. ;n; Different swimsuits and such would have looked cool.

 

Honestly I don't understand WHY X and Y won't get patches for the new Megas/abilities. It just doesn't make sense. Yes, in generations past when one game of the generation had new stuff not present in other games of that generation (D/P/Pt in particular), they weren't really able to easily change the older games to reflect the update, but now that they DO I don't understand why they won't change it. D: Hopefully they do eventually.

[Moonlight_Eevee]

My brother is hoping for a Mega Flygon

[octopi]

Glalie was already a giant floating ice skull. Now it's a giant floating ice skull with a beard. I see no issue with this whatsoever. Also dang does that mean we might be getting a Mega Froslass in the future?? Because that is pretty high up on the list of things I want to see.

 

But noooooooo why no trainer customization.

[MasterWeavile898]

No patch kinda makes sense, it follows the pattern with formes previously. I wish they'd add the megas though :/

 

I hope Glalie gets a good attack buff REFRIGERATE EXPLOSION GOGOGO

 

Also Refrigerate Return if you're lame and want massive damage without killing yourself

 

No trainer customization also makes me sad. Do they not remember the great reception it got in XY?

 

Steelix looks ****ing awesome

 

@RoD

that's fine, no one asked you to. KN and I are both competitive battlers andf a large point of megas has been to make the Pokemon fare better in the competitive scene, so that's a lot of what we talk about when it comes to new ones

[edwardelricfreak]

While it does keep with how previous generations handled new forms, I think that since they DO have the means to relatively easily add the megas to XY, I think they *should*. :U

 

Refrigerate Explosion does sound awesome, though. o3o Sadly it's a last resort kind of move a probably won't see as much use competitively :c At least I don't think it will.