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ANSWERED:One-Time-Only Holiday Unfreeze Option

Should users be able to unfreeze previously-limited Holidays?  

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Why people chose to freeze a hatchling is irrelevant for the freezing action.

 

Hmm. What makes you say that? I'd happily take a 'why' into account for PointOfOrigin's statement if there was one (which is to say, while I don't see one, that doesn't mean there isn't one), but even so, I don't believe this statement is true.

 

(Also, I don't know if you know what I advocate about this suggestion - since I don't post all that much in here (link to my previous post, for those that're that curious), just for reference: I still feel this entire suggestion, technically speaking, hinges on whether one makes a difference between the values of CBs or not (since if you don't make the difference, you can get more adults of the breed in future) - and I do think there are certainly valid reasons not to make that difference, though I personally do make a difference and thus sympathise with those that do.)

Edited by pinkgothic

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If unfreezing is possible, I would want it for all kinds of dragons. A friend of mine has 3 Frills, another an old Pink. All CBs. I would love These to be breeding stock...

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I still don't find them comparable. There was nothing in the game expressly claiming "you aren't getting a holiday dragon". There was something in the game expressly claiming "you can only have two of this breed".

You don't I do. Everyone to their own opinion. And yes, I know there was this thread. Anyways, I came out with the reason why I don't like this or want this.

 

And as far as I know, we aren't supposed to make a difference between Cb and lineaged dragons. Along with what RallyVincent said, I think that this just wants to change too many rules.

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Hmm. What makes you say that? I'd happily take a 'why' into account for PointOfOrigin's statement if there was one (which is to say, while I don't see one, that doesn't mean there isn't one), but even so, I don't believe this statement is true.

Because nobody takes into account why people missed releases or easter egg hunts etc. It's always "you weren't there, you don't get one". The other side of the medal is: "You pressed freeze, you won't get it back." Everything else seems like double standards to me.

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And as far as I know, we aren't supposed to make a difference between Cb and lineaged dragons. Along with what RallyVincent said, I think that this just wants to change too many rules.

The only rule it's changing is a one-time, limited unfreeze due to a rule change. Just like rare x rare refusal removal was a one-time, limited thing due to a rule change. It's hardly a gamebreaker, and it's hardly changing a ton of rules, either. It's making one exemption to a rule for one changed situation... not giving a uniform unfreezing ability to everything ever.

 

Some people seem to be suggesting unfreeze everything ever, but I'm firmly against that--if it becomes a daily thing rather than a rule, then as people said, it'd be very easy to abuse it. New release happens, and you have a scroll full of rare hatchlings? Freeze 'em, stuff yourself on new release things, unfreeze after...

 

If unfreezing is possible, I would want it for all kinds of dragons. A friend of mine has 3 Frills, another an old Pink. All CBs. I would love These to be breeding stock...

 

Old Pinks had a grace period to get more CBs, so I'm not sure freezing is necessary there. It sounds like Frills didn't, so I'd be ok with it there, but from what I've seen tons of people have CB Frills and are more than happy to breed them for people. There's actually a thread somewhere with a list of such people, but I couldn't find it X___x (if you want some from me, though, just send a PM!)

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Because nobody takes into account why people missed releases or easter egg hunts etc. It's always "you weren't there, you don't get one". The other side of the medal is: "You pressed freeze, you won't get it back." Everything else seems like double standards to me.

Exactly. You put it the way I wasn't able to.

 

The only rule it's changing is a one-time, limited unfreeze due to a rule change. Just like rare x rare refusal removal was a one-time, limited thing due to a rule change. It's hardly a gamebreaker, and it's hardly changing a ton of rules, either. It's making one exemption to a rule for one changed situation... not giving a uniform unfreezing ability to everything ever.

 

Official standing is that there's no difference in value between Cb dragons and lineaged dragons. Allowing CB dragons to be unfrozen would officially mean that yes, they are more valuable then lineaged dragons.

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Because nobody takes into account why people missed releases or easter egg hunts etc. It's always "you weren't there, you don't get one". The other side of the medal is: "You pressed freeze, you won't get it back." Everything else seems like double standards to me.

 

I do take that into account, though? Like I said, I'm in favour (even if as far as I understand, I'm in the minority with that, and I do believe it's been expressly shot down by several holiday dragon spriters). But they're quite different scenarios. laugh.gif

 

Edit:

 

Allowing CB dragons to be unfrozen would officially mean that yes, they are more valuable then lineaged dragons.

 

Just so you know, the consensus in this thread seems to be that it should work for all past holidays, CBs or not.

Edited by pinkgothic

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Official standing is that there's no difference in value between Cb dragons and lineaged dragons. Allowing CB dragons to be unfrozen would officially mean that yes, they are more valuable then lineaged dragons.

Like Pinkgotchic said, most of us are for uniform unfreezing. I think CB-only is silly.

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My bad then. Sorry for my mistake.

 

And it's nice from you Pinkgothic that you are for both suggestions. That doesn't change the fact that some people aren't. And now, those people are trying to make an exception to the rules, when they are in question.

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Actually - the scroll owner froze the hatchling knowing that freezing is IRREVERSIBLE. The page even warns them about it - in caps. In other words - the scroll owner acted exactly on the information available. Why people chose to freeze a hatchling is irrelevant for the freezing action. The game doesn't ask why someone freezes a hatchling. You can't use the *how* to argue in one case and the *why* for the other one.

Just a thing about this. People froze their holidays because of the limit that existed before. When you clicked to get a 3rd holiday egg, a page also appeared to warn you of the limit of 2 per breed. So, if the limit doesn't exist anymore, why can't TJ give people a chance to make the "irreversible" freezing reversible? Now that the limits changed, now that the rules changed, why can't something else change as well? :/ I don't think the focus of this discussion should be the the big caps "IRREVERSIBLE" message in the freezing action.

Edited by LaHaine

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It can't really be a default action. What's wrong with a BSA (not one attached to a holiday, no, but I'm sure some dragon would be happy to take it on smile.gif )

 

 

 

 

Lol, perhaps in part because a BSA would be less likely to pass, since there's a fair bit of concern expressed that people would then use Freezing and the BSA as a temporary measure to increase their scroll's capacity for taking in more dragons.

 

That concern would be a major reason as to why it's being requested specifically as a one-shot, time-limited issue giving 'amnesty' for dragons Frozen under different circumstances.

 

Then, too, we'd have to have a dragon suitable for such a BSA, and might never find one considered sufficiently suitable.

 

We aren't supposed to think of BSA's and then try to make some dragon fit the BSA, but the other way around, which is another handicap.

 

So we'd likely need to have some dragon designed for the purpose Released into the Cave with the BSA... and what are the odds?

 

 

But since this is something suggested because of a particular alteration made within the game, it seems eminently reasonable to request that people having Frozen dragons under previous circumstances have an opportunity to unFreeze them, in much the same manner as people were given the chance to remove Refusals when rare/rare breeding was allowed.

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I've always thought freezing was kind of an odd concept anyway. I mean, what kinda two-bit mage casts a spell they can't reverse should the need arise? I can see why it makes sense from the game perspective but yah, I don't see a big deal with allowing one magical chance to reverse a few.

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I see it like this...

"I made a decision I now regret in light of the new limits"...

I froze, but since I have the dragon still on my scroll I think I should get it back"

or

"I released in favor of a different dragon, and I don't have the original dragon anymore, sucks to be me"

 

Why should one get to be fixed and the other not, I mean if we are only talking about things being fair (not taking the difficulty of coding, etc into consideration at all since that is a separate issue)

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I've always thought freezing was kind of an odd concept anyway. I mean, what kinda two-bit mage casts a spell they can't reverse should the need arise? I can see why it makes sense from the game perspective but yah, I don't see a big deal with allowing one magical chance to reverse a few.

Most other games like this have an unfreezing action. I also don't see why people are so against it honestly. Maybe it could be limited or you could only unfreeze a creature once or so yes, but I also don't see the reason some people are so religously against it. It's just pixels

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I see it like this...

"I made a decision I now regret in light of the new limits"...

I froze, but since I have the dragon still on my scroll I think I should get it back"

or

"I released in favor of a different dragon, and I don't have the original dragon anymore, sucks to be me"

 

Why should one get to be fixed and the other not, I mean if we are only talking about things being fair  (not taking the difficulty of coding, etc into consideration at all since that is a separate issue)

It's really a matter of simplicity. If we wanted to right all wrongs, we'd go back and clone dragons lost before the official trading system was put in, return Holiday dragons released because people didn't understand the 24 hour teleport hold thing (or thought they did, but found out they didn't), restore abandoned Old Pinks and Frills, etc. Obviously, though, a lot of those things aren't feasibly possible (How do you prove you lost something in early trading rather than gifted it? How do you prove you once had a certain Holly on your scroll before it auto-abandoned while you were trying to gift another? etc etc). In this case, though, there's a pretty simple way to fix something, and everything is aligned to make it easy. We had the meh page before, TJ can clearly reverse aging on his own dragons and thus could probably code for the opposite for us, we have the frozens right on our scroll as proof we had them... it'd be sad to pass up such an easy fix for one thing just because not everything can be fixed.

 

Mind you, I'd not be opposed to certain such fixes (restoring abandoned Holidays if people have proof of ownership, allowing Frill unfreezing, and so forth), I just don't think this is the thread to start discussing them.

 

@LaHaine: The main reason people are against it is that it rather ruins the point of the game. This game is about raising dragons within a certain time period, and within certain egg limits. As I mentioned earlier, just imagine how annoying it'd be if people could load up on rare hatchlings, then freeze them all, go hunt for yet more rares, and then only unfreeze the former batch once they had time and space. Limits on how much stuff we can have growing exist so that everyone can have a chance at eggs, rather than just a few people hogging everything--and allowing such dodging of the limits cripples that. X___x

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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...Old Pinks had a grace period to get more CBs, so I'm not sure freezing is necessary there. It sounds like Frills didn't, so I'd be ok with it there, but from what I've seen tons of people have CB Frills and are more than happy to breed them for people. There's actually a thread somewhere with a list of such people, but I couldn't find it X___x (if you want some from me, though, just send a PM!)

 

 

 

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall that we actually had a grace period for BRED Old Pink only, that certainly being all I remember being able to scramble to get.

 

As with the Passenger Pigeon, here were so many Old Pinks that a fair number of us always figured that we'd get some later, especially with having only the 4 pick-up slots and a whole week required for dragon-raising, so what I recall is having no CBs at all - as I obviously still don't, and never will - and everyone frantically trying to trade for a few more bred Old Pinks before they vanished forever.

 

The only real problem at least some of us had with them and the Frills was simply that any dragon that constantly Blocks the Cave is going to be regarded as an annoyance, making people want less of what there's too much of, something no longer the case with the Old Pinks or Frills...

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Lol, perhaps in part because a BSA would be less likely to pass, since there's a fair bit of concern expressed that people would then use Freezing and the BSA as a temporary measure to increase their scroll's capacity for taking in more dragons.

No - it would ONLY work for dragons frozen pre the limit change, and ONLY for holiday frozens.

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Now that the limits changed, now that the rules changed, why can't something else change as well? :/

Because that exactly would be the double standard. People are very firm in that "you weren't there, the event will not be repeated". I find it highly amusing that this should not apply to every case, only for chosen ones. So why can't the rule of "CB Holidays only during the release year" or "easter egg hunt only when you were there" change as well?

 

Don't get me wrong - I would not mind at all if one-time unfreezing would be allowed. Good for everyone who'd use this, but I am very much against "one-time-only" as in "only for this case, but not for other cases - like this suggestion. So, I would ask you to state your opinion on re-event if you don't mind?

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Because that exactly would be the double standard. People are very firm in that "you weren't there, the event will not be repeated". I find it highly amusing that this should not apply to every case, only for chosen ones. So why can't the rule of "CB Holidays only during the release year" or "easter egg hunt only when you were there" change as well?

 

Don't get me wrong - I would not mind at all if one-time unfreezing would be allowed. Good for everyone who'd use this, but I am very much against "one-time-only" as in "only for this case, but not for other cases - like this suggestion. So, I would ask you to state your opinion on re-event if you don't mind?

Not sure you're talking to me but I'll answer anyway.

 

I would love love love love love the re-release of past events. And I've been here for everything except Hollies. One of the big draws of DC for me was that, unlike so many adoptables sites, people really could get everything if they tried hard enough. Now with things like discontinued breeds and raffles and limited events that's no longer possible, and never will be... but the closer we can get back to that the better, IMO.

 

However, some of the creators of those past events are firmly against their re-release, which puts TJ in the non-too-enviable spot of going with the artist's desires, even if they're against what the players want, or acting on his right to use the art they granted him use of as he wishes, but angering the artists. :/

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Not sure you're talking to me but I'll answer anyway.

 

I would love love love love love the re-release of past events. And I've been here for everything except Hollies. One of the big draws of DC for me was that, unlike so many adoptables sites, people really could get everything if they tried hard enough. Now with things like discontinued breeds and raffles and limited events that's no longer possible, and never will be... but the closer we can get back to that the better, IMO.

 

However, some of the creators of those past events are firmly against their re-release, which puts TJ in the non-too-enviable spot of going with the artist's desires, even if they're against what the players want, or acting on his right to use the art they granted him use of as he wishes, but angering the artists. :/

Well, we both were in favor of that, I remember. But given that one is deemed impossible, the other should be, too. It's either or, everything else would be inconsequent in my opinion.

 

Only reason that always goes - creator of the game decides to do so. That's why we are discussing this. smile.gif

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It's really a matter of simplicity.

Right, I get that (and again I'm just playing devil's advocate because I don't have anything to gain from any of these suggestions personally) but there are a lot of people using the argument that "it's only fair" to get their frozen dragons back.

 

My point is that if it's fair to get frozens back then it's only fair to get the released ones back too.

Just because one is a lot simpler than the other, those people that released just get left in the cold? How is that fair to them, and why do we only want to be fair to one group and not the other?

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Because that exactly would be the double standard. People are very firm in that "you weren't there, the event will not be repeated". I find it highly amusing that this should not apply to every case, only for chosen ones. So why can't the rule of "CB Holidays only during the release year" or "easter egg hunt only when you were there" change as well?

 

Don't get me wrong - I would not mind at all if one-time unfreezing would be allowed. Good for everyone who'd use this, but I am very much against "one-time-only" as in "only for this case, but not for other cases - like this suggestion. So, I would ask you to state your opinion on re-event if you don't mind?

But the matter of re-releasing the previous holiday dragons so everyone can get a CB is not what is being discussed nor do I think it's appropriate for this thread. It's a matter of unfreezing an already existing dragon in our scrolls vs releasing a species again. I know people have been bringing up "undoing wrongs" and stuff like that (edit) in a thread about "undoing freezing" not "Undoing everything we did wrong"

 

If that's the case and people really want to discuss this, then another thread should be opened for that case. I'm not against re-releasing holidays honestly if the original spriters do agree with it. But re-releasing and unfreezing are two different matters (no idea who brought it up in the first place)

Edited by LaHaine

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Let's say that one day, you're walking down the street, and you see an elderly man being cheated of his money by someone. At just about the same time, you see a TV advertisement flash across a nearby screen, promising a cure for some malady or another that you know for a fact can't be fixed by the "solution" in question.

 

You can probably do something to help the old man being cheated. Your chances of taking on some corrupt company, however, are considerably lower (not to mention more complex and requiring far more time). Do you shake your head at how unfair the world is and give up on helping everyone, or do you do what you can at the time and help the old guy?

 

Just because not everything can be perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't fix what we can. This suggestion sounds pretty easy to implement, and as was mentioned before, would actually benefit far more people than just those doing the unfreezing (due to multiclutches). So I think shooting it down just because not everything can be made perfect is kinda silly. Nobody's saying that this is the only case of rule changing where people were left feeling disappointed, but it is one of the most easily fixable.

Edited by angelicdragonpuppy

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Exactly!

 

If some people can be quickly and easily helped, they should not be denied because not everyone can be aided so quickly - or we'd never get anywhere.

 

 

Edit: as has been pointed out, the permission of multiple spriters is not required to allow people to unFreeze dragons already existing on someone's scroll.

 

And as I mentioned earlier, Vhale made the point that the fact of someone having a single CB Holiday indicates that they were there as back-up for a claim of having Released one to pick up another bred.

 

And it occurred to me that if, rather than searching out each individual specific dragon Released, a replacement was simply added to that person's scroll, dealing with this situation could potentially also be relatively easily dealt with, although I rather doubt that TJ would approve of something like that...

 

As has been pointed out, requests for the re-Release of older CBs would require another thread - and we've certainly had such threads before, although I'm not sure if they'd still exist or have been deleted after having been shut down however long ago.

 

But an option to unFreeze dragons bespelled under different circumstances does fall in line with previous actions taken, and would be more likely to be granted, I should think.

Edited by Syphoneira

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Let's say that one day, you're walking down the street, and you see an elderly man being cheated of his money by someone. At just about the same time, you see a TV advertisement flash across a nearby screen, promising a cure for some malady or another that you know for a fact can't be fixed by the "solution" in question.

 

You can probably do something to help the old man being cheated. Your chances of taking on some corrupt company, however, are considerably lower (not to mention more complex and requiring far more time). Do you shake your head at how unfair the world is and give up on helping everyone, or do you do what you can at the time and help the old guy?

 

Just because not everything can be perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't fix what we can. This suggestion sounds pretty easy to implement, and has been mentioned before, would actually benefit far more people than just those doing the unfreezing (due to multiclutches). So I think shooting it down just because not everything can be made perfect is kinda silly. Nobody's saying that this is the only case of rule changing where people were left feeling disappointed, but it is one of the most easily fixable.

What are these artificial examples proving? What if I knew the elderly man murdered someone and got away on a technical, while at the same time I know a whistle blower who has inside information that proves intentional fraud on behalf of the company? I can build examples to my liking just like anybody, which makes those examples worthless.

 

Rereleasing the easter eggs for those who missed out is actually is easier than defreezing, as the code and the sprites already exist. Again - nobody up to now offered a good explanation why only one should be allowed.

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