Cave Blockers and ways to deal with them

[Fuzzbucket]

But if they turn up in the proportions people WANT that would give a HUGE number of rares....

[Rosedamai]

But if they turn up in the proportions people WANT that would give a HUGE number of rares....

Which would, in turn, not make them rare, and sort of interferes with the breed rarity.

Edited August 7, 2013 by ylangylang

[olympe]

And while some claim to find the exceedingly boring Blocker Refreshing/collecting a 'challenge' and to enjoy not catching anything they want, that's not why most of us are here.

 

We usually get paid for the boring, repetitive stuff we do, which otherwise we wouldn't, and it's not what we dream of doing to relax and have fun.

 

We come here to collect/breed/gift/trade the dragons we want for whatever purpose, and if we can't do that, we're effectively cut out of the game, no matter how hard we try.

Total agreement from me. DC used to be great fun, when - every once in a while - I'd catch something I really wanted. But with the flood of uncommons lately, I'm getting more and more frustrated. It really is no fun setting your alarm clock for 6 am (my local time for the start of a new release) on a Sunday, no less - only to click at eggs that are already gone. Time and again. I spent about half an hour hunting without any success at all before going back to bed.

 

I'm not trying to clamor for uncommons to become more common, but something is going wrong. Seriously wrong.

 

DC used to be fun. When I started, we had about half the number of breeds we have now. Two of them were rare (gold and silver), and uncommons (as defined by the wikia page) had yet to be invented. There were some drawbacks, like having trouble getting your first rares (as there was a two-year metallic drought and no safe trading yet), but it was a challenge that, with some time and determination, could be met. Then the trios came along, and - after several years, mind you - I'm close to have reached my intended minimum goals. Even blacks, vines and stripes - which were impossible to catch as CB for the first three years I've been playing - came back. Eventually. Up to then, there was always someone you could trade something with.

 

But what's happening now? The biomes get blocked with the same old blocker breeds time and again. Great.

Trading is dominated by trading for 2nd gen (or 3rd gen at most) tinsels and shimmers. And maybe the odd CB metal. Neither of which I have. Great. (I still consider tinsels and shimmers to be game breakers, to be honest.)

Breeding is harder than ever, unless you breed blockers. And even then you can get stumped. (I gave up on my neotropical x canopy lineage because of always getting neos for a way too long period of time.) Great.

The AP is overflowing with eggs. Usually the same blocker breeds that already block the biomes. Great.

 

What we need is some true variety. Something that keeps us interested. (Yes, even those of us with less than amazing internet, who're an ocean away from the server and don't have some kind of spider sense to warn us of good eggs coming along and who don't have the time or the patience to spend hours upon endless hours of refreshing the same page with the same 3 blockers time and again.) Those of us who play for fun - and maybe actually catching the odd really special egg in between.

 

Personally, I think that getting rid of the almighty ratios would be a great step in the right direction. I'm not trying to get metals a dime a dozen. Not now, not ever. But at least with commons, a self-adjusting system that helped calibrate the ratios to the needs and desires of the player base would help a great deal.

 

Even a shuffling system would help. Sure, the best things would be gone first. But if there's only one metal in a drop - do you really think that hundreds of players would prefer to wait another hour in the hope to catch the next one - or that they'd rather look for something they'd also like to have. Even if it's not the highly desired rare.

 

Even migration might be a good idea. But only if the "on season" would mean that the dragon is really, really common. Imagine if ices became actually (very) common in winter, and magmas in summer. People would actually be able to stock up on them. *gasp* For all I care, they could be rare (as in metallic-rare) for the rest of the year. As long as there's the hope that, eventually, you will be able to get what you want, playing the game will stay fun. For those who thrive on challenges - well, try to catch your magmas in winter and your ices during the summer months. That would be really special.

[love_HP]

I'd like to state my opinion again:

Even if I have the fastest internet connection and fastest PC in the world, I do NOT want to refresh 100000 times only to stare at a completely frozen cave.

Is there really no way to make cave-hunting at least as much interesting as AP-hunting now?!

[Guillotine]

Another idea, although I don't know if it's been suggested before: make the blockers count for the ratios for two years instead of the current one. Most of the current blockers are fairly old dragons, which is why people don't pick them up, so this should theoretically alleviate the cave producing more than demand can handle. Although demand clearly accounts for how long the egg would sit on a player's scroll; the AP has low-time eggs and moves like lightning because those eggs won't sit on scrolls forever before the player can hatch them and go back to getting more eggs. Reducing the time it takes for ultra-common breeds to hatch would go a long way toward alleviating the situation, I think.

 

Also, supply and demand should still be factored into the ratios; it doesn't mean "make ALL THE GOLDS", it means "alter the current proportions of certain breeds to be more in line with what the market can stand". Right now we clearly have an excess of certain breeds, which means their value has dropped to the point where no one wants them. It's like producing mountains of shovelware and expecting the demand for it to be as high as for a rare big-budget title!

Edited August 8, 2013 by Guillotine

[Syphoneira]

 

... Also, supply and demand should still be factored into the ratios; it doesn't mean "make ALL THE GOLDS", it means "alter the current proportions of certain breeds to be more in line with what the market can stand". Right now we clearly have an excess of certain breeds, which means their value has dropped to the point where no one wants them. It's like producing mountains of shovelware and expecting the demand for it to be as high as for a rare big-budget title!

 

 

 

Guillotine - who has made many posts I greatly admire - gets what I'm saying.

 

She just says it more clearly than I do, lol.

[olympe]

That's pretty much my point, too. However, in the last few years, there has been a change in player mentality. People seem to hate everything that doesn't have a high trade value. Unless it's something they need for a personal lineage project.

[tridymite]

Which would, in turn, not make them rare, and sort of interferes with the breed rarity.

^^ This

 

 

I dont want other breeds cut back just because others want them more.

 

Rares are Rares for a reason!

 

If we change the ratios... other breeds become rare and people whine again... and again.

[Rekha]

Okay so I read through... a good majority of what has been posted here and trust me it has taken me forever because this topic has been around for quite some time.

 

Simply put, the one thing that I would be completely upset by seeing is the retirement of eggs. I know that I personally still have a LOT of eggs to collect as does my Husband and my other friends and family members who I recently got to join the cave. They are all newbies! Have you seen how many newbies we have saying hello in the Introduce Yourself thread? I mean, come on... How do you think THEY will feel to see so many retired breeds?

 

I still to this day kick myself for not focusing on Frills or Bright Pinks. I count myself lucky to have ONE Frill but it isn't a Cave Born... and I was never lucky enough to capture a Bright Pink way back when. So in all honesty, I despise the idea of getting rid of any more sprites. First off... it is completely unfair to the newer players of which we are TRYING to get. Right? The more new players we get the more "Cave Blockers" get picked up? And second, what of all those artists and concept artists who spent so much time working on all of these lovely dragons? Hmph! No thanks!

 

Personally, I am going to start working on a second project. Yes my hands are full with The Eggy Give Away but I want to help in the path of clearing cave blockers. I just need to find some good lineages to be able to breed to help with such.

 

Anyways, I think I said it enough but I will say it one more time... Please... DO NOT... Retire any more breeds!

 

Cheers,

Rekha

[Syphoneira]

I thought only a couple of people misunderstood...

 

Nobody's saying to flood the Cave with rare breeds, but to not routinely have waaaaay more of certain breeds than the user-base wants or can handle; instead, to have sufficient variety of dragons Dropped so that people can actually hunt through dragons somebody is likely to want; to avoid having breeds turn into Blockers because there are simply too many of some types being perpetually spat out, willy-nilly, for the environment (us) to support.

 

I'm not even sure how many breeds we have now, but we could stand to see more of the others, in better proportion to what people will willingly take.

 

The LAST thing we need is to take away breeds, whether permanently or in exchanging Blockers for other Blockers on a cyclical basis by seasonally depriving those who do want Blocker types.

 

The Cave is finally gaining more new dragons on a regular basis and we need an expanded variety of them all appearing in the Cave, only in balance with what their environment - the users - support, just like in a real, balanced ecology, or when using supply and demand, as with a service or business.

 

Much trading has, unfortunately, been turned into a 'Gold Standard stock exchange', where dragons are too often valued only for what they can bring, rather than valuing the dragons one wants for themselves, and trading for dragons of different types when needed or wanted - but that doesn't apply to everyone by a long shot.

 

While people who have been here long-term may have enough of many of the dragons, there are typically others they could use more of but never see/catch, in part because the Cave is so frequently Blocked with too many of certain sprites for almost anyone to actually want them, unless for a specific army or lineage plan or whatever - and many people rarely hunt or have entirely stopped (apart from new Releases) hunting the Cave, while others have stopped playing at all, due to the boredom and frustration.

 

We can't let DC potentially just cycle down the drain in slow-mo, strangled by Cave Blockers too-often impeding/preventing play, lineages, trading, gifting, the joy of the hunt itself - it would be such a waste.

 

 

Edit: for clarity, I hope - getting pretty sleepy, lol.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Syphoneira

[natli]

I did not read this whole thread, but here goes...

 

I would support more egg slots. A platinum trophy for people with 1000 dragons and a diamond trophy for people with 2000. I know I would take more cave blockers, because I often take one or two to get the cave moving. When I get blocked with them I use my vamps to repulse them, with varying amounts of luck.

 

The drawback is: people with slow connection calling for crucification of hoarders during new releases. Like it's happening now. But it would help with cave blockers and with clearing the AP.

[Sophiera]

Either random egg shuffle or kick the old eggs into the AP

Edited August 8, 2013 by Sophiera

[Fuzzbucket]

I did not read this whole thread, but here goes...

 

I would support more egg slots. A platinum trophy for people with 1000 dragons and a diamond trophy for people with 2000. I know I would take more cave blockers, because I often take one or two to get the cave moving. When I get blocked with them I use my vamps to repulse them, with varying amounts of luck.

 

The drawback is: people with slow connection calling for crucification of hoarders during new releases. Like it's happening now. But it would help with cave blockers and with clearing the AP.

I THINK TJ said (and I know we are not supposed to say that but when he said this it was apparently an ABSOLUTE when the numbers were raised before) that there will NEVER be more egg slots. And I very much support that. (even though I would love 8, to get PAIRS all the time !)

[Rosedamai]

I THINK TJ said (and I know we are not supposed to say that but when he said this it was apparently an ABSOLUTE when the numbers were raised before) that there will NEVER be more egg slots. And I very much support that. (even though I would love 8, to get PAIRS all the time !)

I seem to have also read this somewhere, but I don't recall where...

[Wookieinmashoo]

I have not been playing DC as much as i used to, reason being is that I just didn't have time. I didn't get to the new releases and when I did they were already hard to get. I've barely been paying attention to the cave anymore because I've missed 3 releases and have only been slowly getting them out of kindness of other people or sheer luck. What put me off from the game after I found time is that the biomes don't move. The only eggs I want are the new releases since I have plenty of the others. I only have 3 of the salt dragons because the coast biome is a nightmare. I don't have the patience to watch it constantly. I have to set a timer to remind myself to look at the biomes at the top of the hour for releases several months ago because that's the only chance I have to get them. Even still I'm lucky to get a new egg.

 

I think the best idea I've seen so far is a dragon migration. People don't mind that the seasonal dragons are impossible to get during most of the year and having other dragons be rare during certain parts or uncommon wouldn't bother me.

[Wahya]

Kerri - one thing wrong with that line of thinking is that, in Real Life there are plenty examples of "Blocker" or "Nusance" species being culled or regulated by humans.  this is why we have hunting seasons.

 

for isntance, here in the States the Deer population and Alligator populations can get over whelming, so they are kept in check with hunting seasons to make sure the population does not over step itself and harm the eco-system.  essentially, what these Blocker breeds are, are nuscances species which disrupt the eco-system of the cave.

I just wanted to point out the only reason there is a problem like this IRL is because humans have wiped out the natural predators and disrupted habitats with deforestation, encroachment and what not; if we hadn't, the populations of everything would keep themselves in check because of other species and environmental factors.

 

Back on topic, I really like natli's suggestion a few posts up from this one, even if TJ doesn't support it (people can change though - we should really see if he's changed his mind if he said something like that a long time ago). I'd also love unlimited hatchling slots regardless of the egg limit we have. I haven't voted in the poll yet because I like 2 of the options equally - auto kicking eggs and more raising commons contests. The first would be a fix on TJ's part, the second user based. I don't think either one alone can succeed, but together I think the problem could at least be controlled.

 

(Voted other)

Edited August 8, 2013 by Wahya

[xeyla]

I voted other.

I like the Migration / Seasonal Rotation and Random shuffle upon refresh. I cannot pick 2, sadly

[Pokemonfan13]

I personally don't understand why random shuffle is even an option...

 

1. It would require completely reworking the current system, as it is completely incompatible with the ratios. Since TJ isn't even doing some of the minor "fixes" [like fluid ratios for commons where unwanted commons become a little rarer and popular commons become a little more common, making supply fit demand a little better] to the ratio system I really doubt he would completely scrap it and do a simple "this breed has this chance of being made" system that this would require.

 

2. People who belong to sites that do egg "rotation" [new eggs on each refresh] said that it isn't a very good system, as all the "good stuff" is plucked out after a few minutes and the rest is left to rot until the next drop, except for the few people who specifically want a common. Yes, it moves, but there are proposals [such as kicking blockers to the AP] that would get the biomes to move but don't have the powerful downside of forcing anyone who wants anything rare/popular to be there right on the hour.

 

 

 

The only way I could see it working at all is if there was an extra page that only rotates commons [commons could easily be defined by gathering a little bit of data on how long different species sit in the cave, so "commons" that aren't common like blacks don't appear in this rotation]. Ideally these commons are from the biome queues so taking one does help the biomes move, either directly or by not having that common appear later on.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[love_HP]

I really like natli's suggestion a few posts up from this one, even if TJ doesn't support it (people can change though - we should really see if he's changed his mind if he said something like that a long time ago). I'd also love unlimited hatchling slots regardless of the egg limit we have. I haven't voted in the poll yet because I like 2 of the options equally - auto kicking eggs and more raising commons contests. The first would be a fix on TJ's part, the second user based. I don't think either one alone can succeed, but together I think the problem could at least be controlled.

 

(Voted other)

Come to think of it. More hatchie slots may be a good suggestion. It can be helpful to reduce the backlog of the AP. AP has all ER eggs now; more hatchie slots=more people picking up AP blockers and hatch them without taking up egg slot.

But I don't see how hatchie slots help the Cave problem.

[xeyla]

I personally don't understand why random shuffle is even an option...

 

Random shuffle:

Instead of the egg lines moving one to the left when an egg is taken from a cave, the egg that is taken gets replaced with the new egg.

 

Edit: This way people don't have to hover over the very right egg slot. The new eggs appear in random spots to us, since you don't know who is taking which egg.

Edited August 8, 2013 by xeyla

[olympe]

2. People who belong to sites that do egg "rotation" [new eggs on each refresh] said that it isn't a very good system, as all the "good stuff" is plucked out after a few minutes and the rest is left to rot until the next drop, except for the few people who specifically want a common. Yes, it moves, but there are proposals [such as kicking blockers to the AP] that would get the biomes to move but don't have the powerful downside of forcing anyone who wants anything rare/popular to be there right on the hour.

Well, I'd much rather know to be there on the hour and have a *fair* chance at getting something a little rarer than having to wait endlessly for the system to remove a blocker to the AP at random time intervals. And, knowing TJ's style, I'd bet money that he would make it a random time interval.

[cyradis4]

Come to think of it. More hatchie slots may be a good suggestion. It can be helpful to reduce the backlog of the AP. AP has all ER eggs now; more hatchie slots=more people picking up AP blockers and hatch them without taking up egg slot.

But I don't see how hatchie slots help the Cave problem.

Anything that encourages the raising of blocker breeds helps the ratios, which indirectly helps the cave.

 

Yes, more hatchie slots would be phenomenal, if I had more I'd raise a lot more blockers.

 

Cheers!

C4.

[Pokemonfan13]

Random shuffle:

Instead of the egg lines moving one to the left when an egg is taken from a cave, the egg that is taken gets replaced with the new egg.

 

Edit: This way people don't have to hover over the very right egg slot. The new eggs appear in random spots to us, since you don't know who is taking which egg.

So why'd you say "random shuffle upon refresh"? That makes it sound like what I was talking about.

 

And I really don't see how new eggs appearing in any of the 3 slots helps the cave blocker problem.

[Red2111]

the random shuffle idea is targetted towards the problem we see now of the same 3 or 2 blockers sitting in a biome and no one wanting to pick it up.

 

as i stated in the OP, this was tried before and rejected; but it is an option in the poll because of users suggest it and it comes up in disucssion.

[injenn]

the random shuffle idea is targetted towards the problem we see now of the same 3 or 2 blockers sitting in a biome and no one wanting to pick it up.

 

as i stated in the OP, this was tried before and rejected; but it is an option in the poll because of users suggest it and it comes up in disucssion.

I think that random shuffle should stay rejected. You'd just get a bunch of people refreshing a lot, swiping all the rares, then the cave would be blocked with junk.