Cave Blockers and ways to deal with them

[HeatherMarie]

I'm reluctant to support changing the eggs with every refresh until the lag improves. i have a pretty good connection, but on DragCave it can take over a minute for me to refresh a page at the top of the hour.

This, yes please. I won't support any change that favors fast-refreshers until LAG is dealt with.

 

For the "kicking to the AP", I remember a suggestion (here or in another thread, can't remember and don't wanna go hunting) about the number of unique users loading an egg. Like, so that if there's a mint sitting in the biome and one person ninja-refreshes a bunch of times that won't automatically kick the mint, it would have to be a certain number of different users/IPs/whatever seeing the egg in order for it to be kicked. Sort of like, one person can't decide it needs to go to the AP, but 10 people passing it over means it should go. I really like that idea.

[olympe]

So, during a new release, every egg that gets seen by 10 of the 200+ hunters in that biome will get booted to the AP?

I can see this happening:

"Unfortunately, you were not quick enough, and the egg has gone missing (=to the AP) before you could get to it."

[Pokemonfan13]

A time based booting is better. Apart from the release issue, a views based booting would cause far too many eggs to boot. Or if it is a slow time with few hunters, far too few eggs to boot because there aren't enough unique views to trigger it.

[olympe]

I had another idea based on the suggestion Marie made: What if an egg in the cave could accumulate views and unique views like any other egg - and got booted if...

a) it had at least 10 unique views and

it had 10 (or 15) times as many views as unique views?

 

It might also work with just , but I'm not sure about it. Where are the pros, where the cons?

[Guillotine]

Well, some people (like myself) only stick around the caves long enough to see if they're moving, and I don't sit around refreshing if they aren't. It would make it very hard for an egg to be booted with that system since you probably wouldn't have enough views to outdo the UVs by that amount, yeah?

[olympe]

Well, if I knew the egg would get booted once it had acquired a certain number of views - and you can give endless views, after all! - I would refresh in a biome more often. But since nothing usually moves, I do the same thing you do. Look, do a couple of refreshes (if at least one of the eggs isn't a blocker), then move on to the next biome or the AP. Or to breeding.

[HeatherMarie]

The only thing I don't like about a purely time-based boot is..... what about those downtimes when a biome only *has* 5-10 users on the page (and yes, I do still see this sometimes)? So a small handful of users see the egg and don't want it, and the time ticks down and the egg gets booted... So people who start coming into to biome 2, 3, 4 minutes later won't even see it.

 

And I know that's a "non-problem" since the egg is "just" getting booted to the AP, but if I've learned ANYTHING from these forums it's that a LOT of users will do whatever it takes in a biome for the CB they want, but won't ever bother with picking up 20+ of the exact same species in the AP in an attempt to find a CB.

[Guillotine]

Five minutes is a lot of time to wait around, and it would only really affect common dragons; even mildly uncommon breeds tend to get snapped up before even a minute passes. Personally, I would rather dig through the AP for a CB egg than wait two to three days for one fresh from the cave to hatch, and it's highly unlikely that someone looking through the biomes for a CB would be unable to find what they were looking for if blockers got booted after sitting around too long.

 

Besides, the biomes actually moving again, even if by way of kicking blockers to the AP, would make the biomes a more appealing place to hunt than they currently are, which means that they probably would be able to find what they were looking for.

 

I mean, right now most of us can't find the CB commons we're looking for in the biomes anyway, so it's a moot point if you're going for that angle.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Guillotine

[Pokemonfan13]

Well, some people (like myself) only stick around the caves long enough to see if they're moving, and I don't sit around refreshing if they aren't. It would make it very hard for an egg to be booted with that system since you probably wouldn't have enough views to outdo the UVs by that amount, yeah?

If auto-booting is done properly that behavior would change, because it would always be moving, or at least you won't have to refresh 10 minutes for a new egg to pop up. Someone did some nice math in the thread devoted to auto-booting.

[Guillotine]

They did that for a time-based one to show that 5 minutes is pretty much the ideal timing, yes. That statement was a comment on a views-based system, though, which I don't think would work as well as a time-based one for the reasons mentioned.

[olympe]

Which reasons would that be?

[Pokemonfan13]

Well, any time the cave is busy a views based system would be booting eggs immediately just from the sheer number of people in that biome. Unless the number of views is tuned so high that eggs would NEVER move in a slow time. And even if it's turned off right on the hour so the numbers can be more reasonable, it would still be hard to get it to trigger if there are only a few people hunting. Basically a views based system is very biased on how many people are hunting. A time based system forces the cave to move all the time.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Pokemonfan13

[olympe]

I had another idea based on the suggestion Marie made: What if an egg in the cave could accumulate views and unique views like any other egg - and got booted if...

a) it had at least 10 unique views and

it had 10 (or 15) times as many views as unique views?

 

It might also work with just , but I'm not sure about it. Where are the pros, where the cons?

Quoting myself because I'm too lazy. What about a system that requires a certain ratio of views to unique views? It would make sure that someone will have refreshed a certain number of times.

[Pokemonfan13]

Only if it could boot after 15 repeat views and one unique view. If you're the only one hunting the forest at 3 AM DC time, you aren't going to get it to move if there's a 10 unique view minimum.

 

And one problem would be when the cave is massive busy. Think about an egg getting 50 uniques and having to get 750 views to get booted. [and the 1:15 ratio would have to be necessary to boot, otherwise EVERYTHING would get booted when the biomes are busy]

 

And the views they get would have to not stick, since otherwise you'd get sick eggs.

 

Time based is just EASIER. To make a views based system work is massively more complex just to make it not backfire, let alone actually work well.

[Syphoneira]

Only if it could boot after 15 repeat views and one unique view. If you're the only one hunting the forest at 3 AM DC time, you aren't going to get it to move if there's a 10 unique view minimum.

 

And one problem would be when the cave is massive busy. Think about an egg getting 50 uniques and having to get 750 views to get booted. [and the 1:15 ratio would have to be necessary to boot, otherwise EVERYTHING would get booted when the biomes are busy]

 

And the views they get would have to not stick, since otherwise you'd get sick eggs.

 

Time based is just EASIER. To make a views based system work is massively more complex just to make it not backfire, let alone actually work well.

 

 

Exactly!

 

Especially late at DC night, (although also during the day much of the time, at least when I check) some biomes may only have 1-4 people on and simply don't budge, so - apart from Blockers - dragons on there almost never come up during the time-slots many people have to play in, so almost nobody in certain time zones ever gets a chance at them and their on-scroll populations are far lower than they should be.

[Apple]

I personally like it better when no eggs were released in the biomes if the AP was full. I think the best and easiest way to fix this is if people had to keep and raise what they caught. Problem solved.

 

 

Editing to add:

reducing the hatch/grow up time of commons only. 1/1/2 days to hatch 1/1/2 days to become adult. 3 days total. That would be my other solution.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Apple

[Fuzzbucket]

I personally like it better when no eggs were released in the biomes if the AP was full. I think the best and easiest way to fix this is if people had to keep and raise what they caught. Problem solved.

 

 

Editing to add:

reducing the hatch/grow up time of commons only. 1/1/2 days to hatch 1/1/2 days to become adult. 3 days total. That would be my other solution.

What - an end to trading ? I don't think so

 

Things have been vastly better since the end of cave blocking - and over the last couple of weeks I've seen way more good stuff in the biomes - rather to my surprise - I've even caught (and gifted - which wouldn't be possible with what you suggest !) three or four blusangs in the cave.

 

I would MAYBE lower the waiting time to 3 hours, but other than that - I can live with the way it is now, with a slightly faster turn-around time. As someone said - today's HTF is tomorrow's blocker. I recall people weeping and gnashing their teeth over not being able to get tangars - which are now almost blockers themselves, for instance.

 

I think varying hatching/growing times is a non-starter. If we HAD that I'd rather it were applied to holidays, so I could breed more to gift !

[Apple]

I have been around for a while and have a few silvers and Gold (only a few are cave born, What I have noticed with my cave born metallic dragons is the dates. All of mine were obtained from October-December in 2008. It is not from lack of trying to get more. It is not from my inability to click on eggs or I wouldn't have as many as I do. So what was so different in 2008? What about you other longer timers? Check out when the majority of your CB metallic dragons were caught. Maybe if we compared notes we could see a pattern? Or am I just missing something completely?

 

Silvers:

1. Oct 07, 2008

2. Oct 08, 2008

3. Oct 20, 2008

4. Oct 22, 2008

5. Oct 22, 2008

6. Nov 09, 2008

7. Dec 12, 2008

8. Dec 14, 2008

 

Golds:

 

1. Oct 19, 2008

2. Nov 08, 2008

3. Dec 17, 2008

 

Edited September 16, 2013 by Apple

[Fuzzbucket]

I have been around for a while and have a few silvers and Gold (only a few are cave born, What I have noticed with my cave born metallic dragons is the dates. All of mine were obtained from October-December in 2008. It is not from lack of trying to get more. It is not from my inability to click on eggs or I wouldn't have as many as I do. So what was so different in 2008? What about you other longer timers? Check out when the majority of your CB metallic dragons were caught. Maybe if we compared notes we could see a pattern? Or am I just missing something completely?

 

Lucky you to have so many. I wasn't even HERE in 2008.

 

But OK:

 

Silvers:

Dec 31, 2011

Feb 16, 2013

Apr 09, 2013

Aug 15, 2013

 

Golds:

Mar 08, 2013

Mar 09, 2013

 

I see no pattern of any kind and I cannot see AT ALL what you are getting at. Or what you think you may be missing

 

Oh - and in 2011 I was on dialup... SLOW dialup !

Edited September 16, 2013 by fuzzbucket

[Apple]

Yeah, lol, I think I am getting at absolutely nothing:) lol. I know I hunt the same exact way and have not seen the silvers and golds I use too.

 

I am thinking that maybe it is just due to the addition of sooooo many new dragons. There were half the amount of dragons back then. Less than half. and only one place to get the dragons, no different domes.

[Fuzzbucket]

Yeah, lol, I think I am getting at absolutely nothing:) lol. I know I hunt the same exact way and have not seen the silvers and golds I use too.

 

I am thinking that maybe it is just due to the addition of sooooo many new dragons. There were half the amount of dragons back then. Less than half. and only one place to get the dragons, no different domes.

Actually I am seeing many more metals than I did in the past - not that I am CATCHING them, mind, but I SEE them....

[olympe]

I have been around for a while and have a few silvers and Gold (only a few are cave born, What I have noticed with my cave born metallic dragons is the dates. All of mine were obtained from October-December in 2008. It is not from lack of trying to get more. It is not from my inability to click on eggs or I wouldn't have as many as I do. So what was so different in 2008? What about you other longer timers? Check out when the majority of your CB metallic dragons were caught. Maybe if we compared notes we could see a pattern? Or am I just missing something completely?

 

Silvers:

1. Oct 07, 2008

2. Oct 08, 2008

3. Oct 20, 2008

4. Oct 22, 2008

5. Oct 22, 2008

6. Nov 09, 2008

7. Dec 12, 2008

8. Dec 14, 2008

 

Golds:

 

1. Oct 19, 2008

2. Nov 08, 2008

3. Dec 17, 2008

I can tell you what that was if you'd like. I remember being told (late in 2009) that up to early 2009, there used to be too many metallics produced. It was so bad that for some people, it was really hard to gift low-gen and clean-lineaged metals. From around the middle of 2009 up to two (or 2.5) years later, there was an awful metallic draught where golds and silvers were rarer than just rare.

[Apple]

I can tell you what that was if you'd like. I remember being told (late in 2009) that up to early 2009, there used to be too many metallics produced. It was so bad that for some people, it was really hard to gift low-gen and clean-lineaged metals. From around the middle of 2009 up to two (or 2.5) years later, there was an awful metallic draught where golds and silvers were rarer than just rare.

That would explain why mine were all caught around the same time:) I must have missed hearing about that:)

[Fuzzbucket]

That would explain why mine were all caught around the same time:) I must have missed hearing about that:)

And mine, then, after things had finally settled down !

[araglas]

another idea, what might help cleaning the caveblockers out would be the option to freeze eggs. then you could keep them to organisate your scroll and some breeds have so lovely eggs, i would love to keep them....