Cave Blockers and ways to deal with them

[Pokemonfan13]

Other sites don't have TJ's ratios...

[siliconrose]

Before condemning the idea totally without real reason, why not let TJ try it. It works for other sites, and their sites aren't broken. You never know, it might be EXACTLY what we need.

 

I get sooooooooooooooooo bored trying to hunt the biomes. At the top of the hour everything resets.. everyone shows up to hunt.. the drops starts.. then freezes for about a minite before starting again.. then it's pretty lively for the first few mins.. but then 1 blocker egg will drop and be shuffled to the far left spot.. then another into the middle slot.. until finally all 3 slots are filled with blocker eggs that just sit and sit and sit and sit. If you're patient someone might have pity and take one, and eggs start moving again for another min or so... but it's just as likely to be filled by yet another blocker, and nothing would really change.

 

At least with the 'shuffle with every refresh' method, you'd see different eggs.. and who knows, maybe while you're sitting there refreshing, you'll get an idea and decide to take the next _________ you see for a project you just thought of. But when the same 3 eggs sit there forever, you don't get ideas, you just get bored.. and 9 times out of 10, I'm gonna leave and go do something else... and those blocker eggs are still gonna sit there, because I'm not gonna take them when I don't need/want them.

I've been on a site which used this method, and I am strongly against it. Since I knew approximately how many eggs were dropped each hour, I would refresh until the chances that I hadn't seen any of the eggs in the drop were fairly low. If I hadn't seen a rare at that point, I stopped. If I found a rare, I would take it. I knew that if I got to the biome later than a couple of minutes after the scheduled drop, the chances of there being a rare left in the pile were almost zero.

 

It's great for commons, but rares? Those precious few minutes after the hour are even more precious when you use the shuffle-on-refresh method.

[DragonNighthowler]

I've been on a site which used this method, and I am strongly against it. Since I knew approximately how many eggs were dropped each hour, I would refresh until the chances that I hadn't seen any of the eggs in the drop were fairly low. If I hadn't seen a rare at that point, I stopped. If I found a rare, I would take it. I knew that if I got to the biome later than a couple of minutes after the scheduled drop, the chances of there being a rare left in the pile were almost zero.

 

It's great for commons, but rares? Those precious few minutes after the hour are even more precious when you use the shuffle-on-refresh method.

Well, while I see and understand your POV, I find most of the time users center around rares. I think this is an issue which affects everyone's gameplay, not only rare hunter's gameplay. The way I see if, if shuffle were to be implemented, you very accurately pointed out (as well as PF) that rares would practically vanish within the first minutes. As of now, the chances of getting that gold buried under a mountain of terraes is very minimal.

 

Although I will admit this might have a negative impact on rare ratios as more rares are picked up... or not, I do not know. As far as I know (like I pointed out previously), blacks and striped stopped dropping in the cave due to overbreed, not overhunt (is that even possible?), so I'm pretty confused on that aspect.

[~!~]

It would be for two reasons.

 

1. Unless the way the ratios work is changed to a flat chance the number of rares compared to the number of blockers would be completely out of wack and nothing but blockers would drop until it evened out, and it would never completely even out.

 

2. Nobody would hunt past the first hour rush because there wouldn't be anything good left in the cave until the next time new eggs are generated.

I'd just like to point out that the second thing here is what will cause the first thing. The second thing isn't really bad in and of itself, as it's no worse than the way the cave works right now--nobody takes the blockers and the rares remain buried.

 

This solution does kind of work in the sense that it would make the blockers not block anymore. However, the site is still operating on the ratios. The blockers have to block, because if they don't, the on-scroll population of desirable breeds will skyrocket, and the population of blockers will remain comparatively low, causing the cave to produce more and more blockers.

 

If I were TJ, I would just eliminate variable ratios entirely, and have a fixed number of each breed drop every hour. However, I don't really know how well that would work, because I don't know how many of each breed drop every hour as it is. It could very well be that we already see the same number of Blacks as Stones in the cave, and it just seems like less because the Stones linger.

 

I'd also like to point out that the "egg shuffle" has been implemented before, and it was quickly removed because most users didn't like it. That was before the cave was nearly as slow as it is now, though, and I believe before the AP blocked the cave. I don't think we should try it again, though, not because it won't work but because I think there are much better ideas out there. (Like adding an actual, short-term, in-game incentive to pick up blockers.)

[ninish]

how about the wilderness whites adopting then releasing commons?

 

(i voted 'other')

 

i know that there's currently a system that helps the biomes faster: and egg that's been in the cave too long is kicked to the ap. (please correct me if i'm mistaken).

 

i also know that there's a system that helps the ap stay not-so-full, where an egg that's been in the ap for some time gets.... 'abducted', and then is 'returned' when it has less time, and is therefore more likely to be adopted.

 

okay, then how about we improve this a little? like, from time to time, the white dragons which care for the young in the wilderness taking some of this eggs until hatchling-hood, and then return them to the ap? this shouldn't be applied to ALL unwanted eggs, for this would make people not want to raise eggs and simply stalk the ap in search for hatchies. but this would be a nice chance to see a hatchie in the ap from time to time! they aren't seen as much anymore since the implement of teleport. besides, who doesn't want hatchies? even if they're inbred, messy, or common cbs? you can freeze them, trade them, gift them. hence, the common breeds would be a bit more popular. at least they would reach frozen-ness or adulthood, really affecting the ratios.

 

okay, now this idea doesn't include any effort from us, and'd just give some work to TJ. but maybe this can be combined with some other user-dependant method for clearing the cave...

 

edit: to change just one word

Edited March 8, 2013 by okura

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Talk about a broken record. *sheesh*

 

YES, with the egg shuffle the rares will be taken quickly. That's the nature of the game. But at least they got taken and weren't stuck behind a wall of blockers. Isn't it better for the rares to be seen and taken, than never to be seen at all?

 

And not all of us are hunting rares. Sure I'd grab one if I saw it, but most of the time I'm hunting stripes.. NOT rares. More stripes have been showing up lately, but who knows how long that will last, so I'm not counting on it. Most of the time tho, the Forest and Jungle are both just sitting there with 3 blocker eggs. I'd much rather have those eggs shuffle, so I can find the stripes hiding behind them.

 

And what about the other not-so-common commons, like blacks, vines, golden wyverns, whites, blusangs, trios, etc. If 3 blocker eggs are sitting and blocking the biome, those others will never be seen either. Allowing the egg shuffle gives folk the opportunity to find what they're looking for. Instead of being totally bored and hoping someone will break down and steal a blocker.

 

So my answer to the continually repeated 'the rares will go first' is...... SO WHAT????? Who cares even. The eggs shuffle, the rares go first, the eggs keep shuffling and folk find the eggs they are looking for and aren't bored to tears watching 3 blocker eggs that never move.

[Pokemonfan13]

Yea, and what about my point about it totally screwing the ratios? Rares being stuck behind commons forces people to take commons they don't want and if they don't they never see the rares.

 

Basically as long as the cave uses the current ratio system it would be a horrible idea to cycle eggs in the cave. There's still an issue but much less of one if the cave goes to a fixed ratio system.

[SkylerFarrier]

The problem is people believe everyone will go hunting for rares until drying out the cave, which I don't say won't happen at all. But there are those who might be hunting for Caveblockers too, certain ones, specific ones like BBW or terraes or such, yet can't because there are a bunch of whiptails blocking the path. I have had to resort to attempts of trading to get terraes because the biome was constantly blocked by other breeds I did not need, and thanks to the rare increase and the new release, the biomes seem to be moving a bit again and I have been lucky to stuff myself to terraes (some I bred myself to continue the project, but still).

This will help people like me and many others that use certain blockers to breed lineages, and who have the same issues finding what they need as those hunting for rares.

 

By keeping the cave static, it benefits nobody, rare hunters can't hunt for rares and common hunters with specific needs can't hunt for what they need.

 

Like Nectaris said, the situation as it is right now is benefiting no one.

The part about the blockers that bothers me is the AP gets clogged by nastily-lineaged commons. If they were CB or with a short or otherwise nice lineage, I'd hatch them and keep them.

I just started making a list of my CaveBorns yesterday, and I was shocked to see how many commons [actual commons, not ones listed as 'common' but hard to find] I didn't have.

So once I've gotten a pair of the new release eggs, I am going back to trying and getting a mated pair of CBs for every common breed.

[skauble]

The part about the blockers that bothers me is the AP gets clogged by nastily-lineaged commons. If they were CB or with a short or otherwise nice lineage, I'd hatch them and keep them.

I just started making a list of my CaveBorns yesterday, and I was shocked to see how many commons [actual commons, not ones listed as 'common' but hard to find] I didn't have.

So once I've gotten a pair of the new release eggs, I am going back to trying and getting a mated pair of CBs for every common breed.

Actually, it's usually about 50/50 regarding the AP clog. I hunt Tinselkins and so I often pick up every egg, and some days 80% are tossed cave blockers. You can usually tell, too, because you'll suddenly see a row of eggs from one biome as if someone went speed hunting to see if they could catch any rares and they're casting off all the commons.

 

Ironically, I get incredibly frustrated with all the CBs in the AP. I kind of wish there was a way to tell whether they were CB or lineaged just by looking at them so that CB hunters could quickly snag what they need while lineage hunters could check the others faster.

 

@DragonNighthowler - Speaking of CBs in the AP, I see CB Terraes in there all the time, so if you need more later on, the AP's a good source. They're almost always a CB or a Tinselkin. lol

 

 

Maybe the shuffle, or something like it, could work if rare eggs (or any breed that was currently set to be produced at X% of eggs or lower) weren't in the mix during the drop, but rather inserted once X amount of eggs had been taken, which could be a randomized number for each drop.

 

That way the eggs could be shuffled, people could get the various commons they needed, and the rares couldn't be picked out because they wouldn't pop up in the shuffling but would only show up once enough commons were taken.

[~!~]

So my answer to the continually repeated 'the rares will go first' is...... SO WHAT????? Who cares even. The eggs shuffle, the rares go first, the eggs keep shuffling and folk find the eggs they are looking for and aren't bored to tears watching 3 blocker eggs that never move.

This solution does kind of work in the sense that it would make the blockers not block anymore.  However, the site is still operating on the ratios.  The blockers have to block, because if they don't, the on-scroll population of desirable breeds will skyrocket, and the population of blockers will remain comparatively low, causing the cave to produce more and more blockers.

You might just say "who cares if there are a lot of blockers if the rares are still accessible?" I don't know the answer to that. I'd need to know exactly how bad the problem would get. It could come down to the cave producing exactly one egg of all the breeds in high demand every hour, and (if breeding is affected by the ratios, which it might not be) a near-inability to breed any desirable dragons. It might not get that bad, though, and if it doesn't, this fate might be tolerable. It seems a lot like a hack, though, since the site is currently trying to force us to adhere to the ratios regarding what dragons we breed.

[Nectaris]

Yea, and what about my point about it totally screwing the ratios?  Rares being stuck behind commons forces people to take commons they don't want and if they don't they never see the rares.

 

Basically as long as the cave uses the current ratio system it would be a horrible idea to cycle eggs in the cave.  There's still an issue but much less of one if the cave goes to a fixed ratio system.

To me that is my greatest dislike of the site. I don't think there should be a mechanism that FORCES someone to get and raise a dragon that they have no wish or desire to raise. To me, it shouldn't matter if 100 blacks are raised to 20 whiptails, as long as there are X rares to every common.

 

As for the cave emptying of desirables in the first minutes, break up the drop, don't have it just dump at the first of the hour, dole it out every fifteen minutes or so and/or increase the number of eggs dropped in the five minute drops.

 

As for it affecting the ratios, I am not sure if it really would have much more of an effect than breeding already does. As it stands, if that gold sitting behind the wall of blockers doesn't get picked up, it gets replaced by someone else's bred gold.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Nectaris

[PhoenixStarr]

Cave blockers is kind of a problem created by the users of the site rather than the site itself. Because the users don't value albinos, for example, they do not pick them up and the albinos stay in the cave and block it. Yes, they are common, but it is because the user base does not value them that they block the cave, not because they are common. So the best way to solve this problem, in my opinion, is to fix the actual problem and shift the value of these eggs by implementing more cave blocker reward projects.

Edited March 8, 2013 by PhoenixStarr

[Maiden]

I voted 'other' because the solution to Cave Blockers is simple.

 

Pick them up.

 

There are now, and always have been, blocker breeds. Which breed it is changes, but it's going to be a problem we'll always deal with. Right now Albinos are a big blocker in the Alpine. If all DC users would make the 'sacrifice' of picking up two a week for the next month, I bet they wouldn't block the Alpine anymore. Of course, that's not going to work, because people won't just pick them up and raise them. Nobody wants them: they're always around, easy to catch, not much of a challenge. People are going to keep trying to figure out ways to get rid of them, like shoving them into the AP or letting us rotate out all the eggs until the 'good stuff' is gone and only the blockers are left. Those, unfortunately, aren't real solutions to the problem. The only real solution to blockers is to pick them up and raise them until they don't block their particular Biome anymore. Then the next least-popular dragon can become a blocker in their place.

 

The biggest problem with blockers is exactly what Nectaris pointed out: nobody likes to feel as though they're being forced into raising a particular breed of dragon. Unfortunately, that's an integral part of how DC works. You either have to raise a few dragons you're not crazy about or develop the immense patience to wait it out until other users have raised enough of them for you. I suspect that's why many users quit periodically. It's happened to me: I've been so fed up with being unable to get the breeds of dragons that I want that I'll flip a table, ragequit, and stay gone for a period of weeks to months. Of course I come back sooner or later because DC is just too darned addictive. And because slowly I've learned to accept that blockers are a part of life on DC, and I just deal with it.

 

I get more fed up with the AP blocking the Cave than I do with Cave Blocker breeds. I'd rather be forced into picking up a CB of a breed I don't like than have to take a messy-lineaged metal fail of the same breed. The message drives me nuts: "You decide that there are plenty of eggs there, and traveling is unnecessary." I didn't decide anything, I'm not allowed to go CB hunting right now. There's a big difference. (And that's also just a stupid little pet peeve of mine. Lulz.)

 

So there's my two cents.

[~!~]

To be frank, I think the "just pick them up" route is the best one. However, people have been preaching that mantra since the problem first arose, and blockers still block, so I think we can safely assume altruism among players isn't going to be the patch we need.

 

I think the best cave-blocker solutions are things like the Mossy Egg deal, or making eggs lose time while sitting in the cave or on the AP. Anything to actually give people an incentive to inconvenience themselves for the good of the site.

[Cinnamin Draconna]

I don't like Albinos. I have one pair and I do NOT intend to have any more on my scroll.... EVER! The same also applies to Whiptails, most of the restricted breeders and pygmies.

 

If I do not want an egg, I am not going to take it.. PERIOD! I don't play my game that way. I play my game by picking up or breeding eggs I want/need, not by wasting my scroll space on eggs I don't want.

 

So your 'reward' program for raising blockers is useless for players like me. I don't want more blockers, I want to shuffle the eggs around so I can get to the eggs I'm looking for. Not waste my time refreshing for hours on end hoping the darn blocker eggs will magically disappear or something.

 

The solution must be applied to the cave/biomes... not the players. We aren't the problem, the blocker eggs are. They are blockers because no one wants them and the cave overproduces them. The cave overproduces them, because TJ needs to adjust the ratios based on something other than breed population. TJ needs to recognize that some breeds aren't popular and make the cave produce less of them. The ratios are broken and have been for a while, so skewing the ratios a bit more with egg shuffling shouldn't make much of a difference.

[Limn]

Hold on now, plenty people like cave blocker species. I happen to enjoy Albinos. Also if we didn't have 'commons' rares wouldn't be rares now would they? One has to accept the good and the bad, we cannot all just get showered with what we like.

 

My suggestion for the caveblockers would be to get a bunch of people to go on a vampire biting spree. Eggs would die or get turned, either way, some people can't handle the idea of killing an egg on there scroll and would be more than glad to take the vampires.

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I like the idea of seasonal rotation (so long as it only affects CBs!). If certain things were only available at certain times, it would probably make a lot of them more desirable, in the same way that Seasonals, which aren't really that uncommon, are more sought-after because they're limited in when you can get them.

 

However, the two things I'd really like to see done are:

- Set ratios rather than fluctuating

- Auto-deletion of eggs that sit too long

 

In other words, if an egg sat there for too long (maybe 1-3 minutes?), it could delete, and since the cave's ratios would be a fixed 'dice roll' as to what's produced rather then a quota system, another blocker wouldn't have to be generated in its place.

 

Most of us seem to play Pokemon, so I'll use it as an example of how I think the system should work. In Pokemon, as in DC, there are many more commons than rares. You have to work to get those rares. However, the difference is that you don't feel forced to collect masses of commons to ensure that you can still find rares, because no matter how many commons you have to knock aside first, there'll always be a set chance of finding a rare... as opposed to DC, where if everyone refused to pick up commons, the entire cave would die. I think the former system is much nicer than the latter.

Just gonna sit this here...

[schmupti]

I know it will be royally rejected but, adding more egg slots will also help the issue. The more eggs we can gather, the faster they rotate.

Or maybe add something so eggs/hatchlings grow faster freeing slots. The faster the slots get freed, the faster we will pick up eggs, and faster does AP empty and blockers go.

Not picking on DragonNighthowler, just wanted to point out that these were offered up as solutions to the blocker dilemma before, and did not work.

 

"If we had more than four egg slots, then of course I would pick up more commons. It's having to save room for hunting Trios that's keeping me from picking up Mints." Now a gold trophy gives you 7 egg slots, but Mints can still sit around in the Volcano forever, because 7 slots? I've got some Trio hunting to do!

 

"If I could hatch an egg faster so it wasn't taking up room on my scroll so long, then I'd pick up tons of Guardians." And lo, Incubate was unveiled, but it's not generally used to pick up and hurry along stray Guardians.

 

"If the ratios were fixed so that rares weren't so rare and commons weren't so common, then I could finally get that CB Gold I'm hunting. Then I wouldn't mind picking up Spitfires." If everyone camped out in a biome is there to pick up a [x], and they really need/want a [x] because it's rare/new, then it doesn't matter what breed [x] is, because the horde hunting for [x] will always have a new [x] to pursue, and will leave a lot of [a], , [c], etc., lying around waiting for love in the meantime.

 

It's all about perceived value.

 

When a new egg comes out, people empty their slots into the AP, Golds and all. When it was announced that Frills would be discontinued, suddenly these 'blockers' were more valuable than Silvers. Finding ways to scoot 'less valuable' eggs out of sight or let users peek around them doesn't fix their value and make them more pickupable, it just rewards not bothering to take them at all. Artificially imposed scarcity from January to June means a blocker may be a hot item the first two weeks of June as the lineage projects grab their fill, but still easy to pick up and therefore less valuable until January. I'd rather have a mixed AP wall of assorted blockers than a rotation of single breed walls waiting to never be picked up.

 

Better ways to avoid picking up blocker breeds and "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" fixes sidestep the perceived value issue. We can't give every blocker a BSA or alt just to get them moving, because getting one breed moving just transfers the 'blocker' label on to a new breed. User projects that create a value for these breeds, through incentives for picking them up and raising them, are the only feasible solution I see here.

[olympe]

Personally, I think that the ratio problem - which is a problem, whether we like it or not - can only be solved sufficiently by a combination of methods.

 

When reading further, please understand that I'm not talking about ratios for rares, but for commons - and, to some extent, uncommon commons. I know that rares are rare for a reason, although I still don't know what reason that is.

 

That being said, let's start with suggestions.

• More biomes. We already experience that biomes with 15-20 breeds and biomes with a large number of desirables (=dragons that players want more of than there are produced) empty pretty well, while others with 20+ breeds are almost constantly blocked. Once upon a time, when we had only one cave, we had a similar problem...

   

  Anyway, maybe it would make sense to add new biomes once a biome has reached a certain number of breeds. (Yes, I know TJ prefers to keep the current number of biomes - but maybe he will change his mind?) For example, once a biome reaches 30 or 35 breeds, it gets split up into two. (Simple version.) Right now, I think that the grasslands/prairie kinds of dragons could easily be split from the Forest and Jungle biomes and put into their own biome. Add a couple of new, breedable uncommon breeds to all of them, and you'll probably have three well-moving biomes instead of two that are almost constantly blocked.

• Auto-adjusting ratios for commons. I'd call anything CB but metals, trios, blusangs and GW as commons, even if the wiki classifies them differently.

   

  Here's how it could work: At the beginning, all common eggs are at the same ratio of 100:100:100... (or at the current ratios, whichever suits you best.)

   

  Now, there are three eggs sitting in the jungle for 1 minute. Once that happens, all three eggs go poof get taken to the wilderness. The breeds they belong to get their ratio adjusted by -1. So, if there were 2 neotropicals and one BBW sitting in the jungle for 1 minute, the ratios would then be 98 neotropicals : 99 BBW : 100 everything else.

   

  Of course, this wouldn't work indefinitely, as ratios can only decrease this way. So, we need a way to adjust. The simplest way would be this: Whenever X adjustments have taken place, with X being the current number of common breeds, all breeds get +1 added to their ratio.

   

  (If we do an example for only neos, BBW and vines: After the first go where always 2 neos and 1 BBW get tossed, but vines always get picked up, we'd have a ratio of 99 neos : 100 BBW : 101 vines after one cycle. 98 neos :100 BBW : 102 vines after two cycles. And so on.)

   

  Of course, this system can only work when the site is up and running and the cave is not blocked by the AP.

• Make breeding ratios independent of CB ratios. If only CB eggs count towards the ratios, it doesn't matter that people breed thousands of stripes or metals or blacks or vines. They'd still drop in the cave. Also, with a fixed chance for breeding success, lineage projects won't be half as frustrating. Also, this is kind of like in real life, where we humans breed what we like, independent of what nature "prefers". You won't find many albino or patterned mice in nature, yet under human care, they flourish. And it doesn't matter to what happens in the woods out there if we keep endless albino mice, nature won't produce more or less of them because of it.

What I'm firmly against are the following:

• Retiring breeds in any way, shape or form. Too much drama.
• Addition of another egg line. If we manage to get blocked with 3 eggs, we manage to get blocked with 6, too.
• Random egg shuffle (without auto-adjusting ratios): Will not truly help, as blockers will still not be taken, and because of the ratios, there will be more of them produced in the future.
• More cave-blocker reward projects. Too little effect for the trouble. Because only a small percentage of players is active on the forums. Unless it's a side-wide thing organized by TJ. Like him offering (insert CB egg of desirable breed here) for X amount of (insert blocker breed X here) hatched in one month. Maybe even with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd prize (1st for CB metal, 2nd for CB uncommon, 3rd CB common of choice or something like that).
• Do nothing. Because it won't solve anything.

I'm open to discuss and/or try out seasonal migration, which (to me) is the same as scheduled droughts - as long as it does not affect our breeding ratios and rares/uncommons are not affected.

[PhoenixStarr]

I don't like Albinos. I have one pair and I do NOT intend to have any more on my scroll.... EVER! The same also applies to Whiptails, most of the restricted breeders and pygmies.

 

If I do not want an egg, I am not going to take it.. PERIOD! I don't play my game that way. I play my game by picking up or breeding eggs I want/need, not by wasting my scroll space on eggs I don't want.

 

So your 'reward' program for raising blockers is useless for players like me. I don't want more blockers, I want to shuffle the eggs around so I can get to the eggs I'm looking for. Not waste my time refreshing for hours on end hoping the darn blocker eggs will magically disappear or something.

 

The solution must be applied to the cave/biomes... not the players. We aren't the problem, the blocker eggs are. They are blockers because no one wants them and the cave overproduces them. The cave overproduces them, because TJ needs to adjust the ratios based on something other than breed population. TJ needs to recognize that some breeds aren't popular and make the cave produce less of them. The ratios are broken and have been for a while, so skewing the ratios a bit more with egg shuffling shouldn't make much of a difference.

The reward programs are not useless to someone like you, even if you choose to personally not participate, because it means that someone else is and will gladly hoard the blockers, picking them up and moving them out of the way so that you can find your rares.

[~!~]

I'd also like to bring up my idea from aeons ago, that was to time how long an egg sits in the cave (minus time when the cave is blocked by the AP) and adjust the ratios (breedability as well as cave-dropping) based on that. It could also take into consideration how long eggs sit on the AP, and how often they're kept versus abandoned from breedings (but that would require an "abandon all" option directly after the breeding, because of how frequent single-egg clutches are). There would be a cap on how common a rare or uncommon breed could get, but no cap on how rare any breed could get.

[DragonNighthowler]

Not picking on DragonNighthowler, just wanted to point out that these were offered up as solutions to the blocker dilemma before, and did not work.

 

"If we had more than four egg slots, then of course I would pick up more commons. It's having to save room for hunting Trios that's keeping me from picking up Mints." Now a gold trophy gives you 7 egg slots, but Mints can still sit around in the Volcano forever, because 7 slots? I've got some Trio hunting to do!

 

"If I could hatch an egg faster so it wasn't taking up room on my scroll so long, then I'd pick up tons of Guardians." And lo, Incubate was unveiled, but it's not generally used to pick up and hurry along stray Guardians.

 

"If the ratios were fixed so that rares weren't so rare and commons weren't so common, then I could finally get that CB Gold I'm hunting. Then I wouldn't mind picking up Spitfires." If everyone camped out in a biome is there to pick up a [x], and they really need/want a [x] because it's rare/new, then it doesn't matter what breed [x] is, because the horde hunting for [x] will always have a new [x] to pursue, and will leave a lot of [a], , [c], etc., lying around waiting for love in the meantime.

 

It's all about perceived value.

 

When a new egg comes out, people empty their slots into the AP, Golds and all. When it was announced that Frills would be discontinued, suddenly these 'blockers' were more valuable than Silvers. Finding ways to scoot 'less valuable' eggs out of sight or let users peek around them doesn't fix their value and make them more pickupable, it just rewards not bothering to take them at all. Artificially imposed scarcity from January to June means a blocker may be a hot item the first two weeks of June as the lineage projects grab their fill, but still easy to pick up and therefore less valuable until January. I'd rather have a mixed AP wall of assorted blockers than a rotation of single breed walls waiting to never be picked up.

 

Better ways to avoid picking up blocker breeds and "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" fixes sidestep the perceived value issue. We can't give every blocker a BSA or alt just to get them moving, because getting one breed moving just transfers the 'blocker' label on to a new breed. User projects that create a value for these breeds, through incentives for picking them up and raising them, are the only feasible solution I see here.

Ok, I'm a bit biased by how I play but you got a point there

[KishaRa]

Totally honestly, I think there’s always going to be ‘blocker breeds’ because whatever happens we will always commonly see one breed or another.

 

Although I have read through this thread, I’m probably going to be repeating some things anyway because I did it quickly, and I want to be complete. Prepare for long windedness.

 

Breed retirement: No, don’t do it. It just creates unnecessary drama and strife. Even if they could still be bred there would still be resentment between those lucky enough to have CB former blockers and those who don’t. Also: How would TJ decide what to take out if this was implemented? It’s one thing to retire a breed by the creator’s request and another to tell someone their breed is too common/unpopular/old/whatever to stay in the cave.

 

Altering ratios: There’s a very interesting discussion about this in another thread. I would be in favour of some altering, particularly if the breeding ratios and cave drop ratios could be made separate, as I don’t think people breed the more common dragons as often because they aren’t very desirable. It would also be great if the ratios could be updated/checked more frequently so there isn’t suddenly a time when nothing but a common dragon will breed.

 

Migration: Hmmm… This would probably depend a great deal on how it was implemented, if it was implemented. I certainly wouldn’t be in favour of seeing a breed vanish entirely for a few months: that would just be annoying. I also wouldn’t want to see a time when you can’t move for ‘common egg X’ all over the cave and AP. Is it possible to have a time when breed X is less common without that kind of population backlash when they become more common again? If it was this would add another dimension to the game.

 

Also for breeds that are in more than one biome, would it be beneficial, or even possible to say that they become less common in certain biomes at different times of the year?

 

Scheduled Droughts: I don’t think this would solve anything really. One of the major causes for complaint on the forums seems to be the frustration of the times when a certain rare or uncommon isn’t dropping as much and/or breeding as well making things the same for commons would add a new level of frustration for many players.

 

Auto kick to AP: No, that just means the AP will be filled with dragons no one wanted to take and never clear so the cave will pretty much only be open at the hour. I know people pick up commons and dump them is the AP now to try and unblock a biome for what they want but the five hour cooldown is there for a reason. The problem isn’t just the cave.

 

More biomes: eh… I think the suggestion for changing the six biomes slightly (Here it is.) was tidier. Probably however many biomes we have to hunt there’ll be a block sometime so it’s not really a great solution. The reason I think adjusting the six biomes is better in this context, is because it amalgamates some biomes where very common breeds appear in more than one, for example: stones currently appear in four of the six biomes, and it makes them appear more common than they may be when you see one or more stone eggs in each of those biomes.

 

Addition of another egg line: six eggs isn’t that much greater than three, and it increases the chances of seeing more than one of the same egg at a time, which I think make people less likely to pick them up. All in all I don’t think this would make too much difference either way on its own.

 

Quicker rotation of eggs: I’m not really sure what you mean by this as you have no explanation out yet. I’ll concentrate on other options.

 

Random Egg shuffle: Not sure it’ll do any good. Most likely all the ‘good eggs’ i.e. the rares and uncommons in any drop will go to those who can hit F5 and click the fastest, strongly favouring faster connections, and a pile of whatever commons are unpopular will be left at the end of the drop. As long as the cave has the current ratios and hourly drops this is not going to be a good solution and might even only be another problem.

 

More cave blocker reward projects: As much as it encourages users to collect commons these projects aren’t too effective because they don’t reach the entire community, only those who use the forums. It could help if we had an official ‘collect breed Y to win’ contest but I think there are better solutions out there. Also, on a strange note, am I the only one who thinks this promotes the impression of those breeds as undesirable?

 

Do nothing: Although not all these suggestions are great, this is the worst one of all.

 

Other:

Here’s a few more things…

 

BSAs:

It would be nice if some of the small but fun BSA suggestions were implemented. I saw a good one for whiptails to be able to race each other for fun, and one for spitfires to make glass bits and bobs. I know these wouldn’t instantly increase the popularity of the most common breeds or be popular with everyone. However if common breeds could have fun BSAs that fit their breed perfectly (as the examples above do) it could make them more interesting to collect, and also make the game a bit more interesting for new or irregular players. The most important thing in that is to pick a desirable BSA, even if it’s not useful, from my observation the silly ‘splash’ BSA is a more popular one than ‘earthquake’ because of the latter’s high failure rate.

 

Don’t add time when dropped to the AP:

AP eggs would get picked up more often if they had less than 7 days on the timer, and very common eggs often fill the AP. People sometimes take a common, or the wrong common, by accident, keep it 5 hours and then drop it to the AP, where it instantly goes back to 7 days. If it stayed at 6 days 19 hours on the timer, or even got some time removed for going to the AP, dropped and bred commons would be picked up more often.

 

Show only 1 of breed:

If the cave could be programmed to show only one egg of each breed at a time it might help, because out of three different breeds, there’s more chance of someone taking one of anything than there is with three of the same breed. I don’t know about everyone else but sometimes I just think ‘three of those… I’ll go elsewhere.’

 

So if a green is sat in the forest, it doesn’t drop another green there unless that’s the only thing left to drop, it drops a different egg from the ‘queue’ of eggs for that biome.

 

That’s all for now. But overall I think that no single option is going to solve the problem.

Edited March 8, 2013 by KishaRa

[Pokemonfan13]

What would be best is a reward program for hatching blockers, but that could only be done internal to the site because the reason for keeping them for the external programs is for the tally. That way people can help by turning unwanted eggs into desirable hatchlings, but don't have to keep them to get the benefit.

[egwenna]

Tried reading most of the thread.. makes the head swim a little thinking about it.

 

I do not support retiring breeds. Too much drama and angst.

 

Having the availability of a breed fluxuate so that waters or stones might become uncommon for a month at a time could be interesting. In nature, population levels aren't steady, so it makes sense that dragons could be affected as well and it wouldn't stop those of us who want them from being able to get one. There just wouldn't be three of them sitting there together.

 

I'm all for another trophy level and a new egg slot... and a simple solution might just be decreasing the number of eggs the cave produces per hour.

 

There are lots of dragons I only have a pair or two of and with projects I'm not interested in giving them a slot, so that's all I'll ever have. If there were little BSA's or games to play with just them I might change my mind. But, I dunno, I kinda think there will always be something but it would be nice if we could find a way to improve the situation.