Cave Blockers and ways to deal with them

[Pokemonfan13]

I agree that things should be changed in the light of new situations and suggestions.

[blockEdragon]

i have two ideas that might have something to them

 

idea 1

 

-how about more egg slots, one egg slot for every 1000 dragons or so an extra egg slot is rewarded, with every new egg slot rewarded 1000 more dragons then the last time are required

2000 dragons the first level past gold 3000 the second level past the previous and so on

 

egg slots are so scarce that we are too afraid to lock ourselves lest a rare drop occurs

we would then want to raise more dragons...to be able to grab more dragons...to be able to raise more dragons...to be able to grab more dragons...to be able ot raise more dragons

 

then to really make this useful make blockers (as in ratio commons) hatch faster, rares still would only hatch at four days while commons could hatch as early as 6 days so it would be more time efficient to get commons

 

 

 

idea 2

 

-make a system where users are rewarded with a in-game currency for raising dragons, with blockers/underpopulated giving the most money while things like golds give little to none,

which could then be spent at an in-game store where you could by rare dragons or be used in trades so that if we don't have eggs they want we can still offer them something of value

(no irl currency is in this system, its only earned through raising dragons)

 

that's kinda why we invented real currency in the first place, you need a horse but they don't want 3000 potatoes? well without money you need to find a guy who needs potatoes and has a horse they will give up for said horse, with currency you can just give him some gold coins and BAM you have a horse

Edited March 29, 2016 by blockEdragon

[Fuzzbucket]

NO CURRENCY. Unless it is the earned points for the store suggestion.

[blockEdragon]

NO CURRENCY. Unless it is the earned points for the store suggestion.

Why?

why wont this work?

why would this be a bad thing?

 

 

it encourages the raising of blockers and gives more power to everyone, people who can't catch rares can buy them off of users who can and help the ratios in the process or go to the store and buy it straight form the cave get them or different rares for a set price

neither would be better then the other because users have lineages and haggling while the store has caveborns and set prices

 

also it is earned points, just earned through a different way and a bit more useful beyond just that little store and nothing else

 

it would pay users to help the ratios, there would be farming where they find the most common breed and raise nothing but that but that's what we want to happen, and that well would run dry eventually when the ratios even out, then they move onto a new most common breed to farm and it keeps going with them saving up for something

 

and yes it DOSE add a new layer to the game but that's how a game evolves and stays fun

 

 

is this because of the burned suggestion that was posted today? because I have nothing to do with that.

Edited March 29, 2016 by blockEdragon

[cyradis4]

Why?

why wont this work?

why would this be a bad thing?

 

 

it encourages the raising of blockers and gives more power to everyone, people who can't catch rares can buy them off of users who can and help the ratios in the process or go to the store and buy it straight form the cave get them or different rares for a set price

neither would be better then the other because users have lineages and haggling while the store has caveborns and set prices

 

also it is earned points, just earned through a different way and a bit more useful beyond just that little store and nothing else

 

it would pay users to help the ratios, there would be farming where they find the most common breed and raise nothing but that but that's what we want to happen, and that well would run dry eventually when the ratios even out, then they move onto a new most common breed to farm and it keeps going with them saving up for something

 

and yes it DOSE add a new layer to the game but that's how a game evolves and stays fun

 

 

is this because of the burned suggestion that was posted today? because I have nothing to do with that.

"currency" is a taboo subject among too many of the userbase. They seem to think (as near as I can tell), that:

a. it will lead to RL $$ in the game (another taboo subject that will get people lynched)

b. "set" values for each breed

and I'm not overly clear on what else. :/

 

Personally, right now we are using our dragons *as* currency (suggesting that will also get an out-cry). So for me, so long as the "currency" is earned for actions in-Cave and everyone has a shot at it, I think having it would solve many of the Cave's current issues.

 

So yea, I don't get the objection to currency either, but there's why the strong response. I haven't seen a single reasonable reason I could agree with for why we shouldn't have an in-cave currency. I haven't even seen a well-thought-out one.

 

For blockers, I favor the "kick to the AP" idea, as it deals the triple blow of moving the Biomes, helping ratios, and keeping the AP low in time.

 

Cheers!

C4.

 

 

[~!~]

In-game currency will only result in "set" values for dragons if you can buy eggs from the game with it. But, a user-created market wouldn't be any different than what we have now, just with money instead of barter. So like, when you post a Teleport, rather than saying "trade me this egg for this" you say "pay me x amount of money" and when they accept the Teleport, they're automatically charged (if they can afford it).

 

So, as usual, dragons are only worth what they're worth to you.

 

And just so this post isn't off-topic: In-game currency could be slowly added to eggs that sit in the cave or the AP (although eggs in the AP already get time shaved off, which is nice). This is a very common incentive technique in games to get players to take things they otherwise wouldn't, and I think it would fit nicely into DC, and would not upset things too much. (It's also entirely reasonable for loot to be found around dragon eggs, because, you know... dragons.)

[blockEdragon]

In-game currency will only result in "set" values for dragons if you can buy eggs from the game with it.  But, a user-created market wouldn't be any different than what we have now, just with money instead of barter.  So like, when you post a Teleport, rather than saying "trade me this egg for this" you say "pay me x amount of money" and when they accept the Teleport, they're automatically charged (if they can afford it).

 

So, as usual, dragons are only worth what they're worth to you.

 

And just so this post isn't off-topic:  In-game currency could be slowly added to eggs that sit in the cave or the AP (although eggs in the AP already get time shaved off, which is nice).  This is a very common incentive technique in games to get players to take things they otherwise wouldn't, and I think it would fit nicely into DC, and would not upset things too much.  (It's also entirely reasonable for loot to be found around dragon eggs, because, you know... dragons.)

Yea, I like everything you just said, but couldn't that just result in people taking eggs only for the gold then Biting or APing them which kinda defeats the pourpose of "commons give more money" (then again that just means someone else will pick it up I suppose)

how about the "loot" is given upon hatching or even reaching adulthood instead?

Edited March 30, 2016 by blockEdragon

[HeatherMarie]

Yea, I like everything you just said, but couldn't that just result in people taking eggs only for the gold then Biting or APing them which kinda defeats the pourpose of "commons give more money" (then again that just means someone else will pick it up I suppose)

how about the "loot" is given upon hatching or even reaching adulthood instead?

From what I can understand, the currency/store idea gives you money/points/etc for actions that you do normally, such as raising a dragon. But maybe commons could be worth *more*, and only be given upon adulthood. That might work.

[blockEdragon]

From what I can understand, the currency/store idea gives you money/points/etc for actions that you do normally, such as raising a dragon. But maybe commons could be worth *more*, and only be given upon adulthood. That might work.

Precisely, yes commons would give more UNIT OF MONEY HERE for reaching adulthood with my idea of the system based on the ratios

 

overpopulated or just inherently rare = little to no reward

blocker or just inherently common = large reward

 

lets say you raise a gold and a blocker

the gold will give little to no reward while the common will give a high reward

 

the more underpopulated it is the more UNIT OF MONEY is rewarded

 

commons will always inherently give more then rares though even if the rare becomes a bit underpopulated

Edited March 30, 2016 by blockEdragon

[~!~]

Yea, I like everything you just said, but couldn't that just result in people taking eggs only for the gold then Biting or APing them which kinda defeats the pourpose of "commons give more money" (then again that just means someone else will pick it up I suppose)

how about the "loot" is given upon hatching or even reaching adulthood instead?

Sure, but it'll at least get the eggs out of the caves more quickly. I don't really care if every other egg I see is a Flamingo, so long as someone (else) is picking them up. Unless TJ brings back the mechanic of the AP blocking the cave, CBs dumped to the AP doesn't hurt cave hunters.

 

It would hurt people who hunt the AP specifically looking for lineages if the AP becomes full of CBs, and lineaged eggs become rare by comparison. That, however, could be solved by applying rewards to the AP as well - maybe the more times a single egg is abandoned, the higher the reward for taking it? Couldn't be abused because you already can't pick up an egg you abandoned.

 

For that matter, the egg could "remember" how much loot you got when you picked it up, and charge you that much to abandon or bite it, but that's getting a little silly imo.

 

I'd rather rewards be earned at all stages of dragon rearing - once when you take the egg, once when you hatch it, once when it becomes an adult. I think that would be an appropriate amount of grease in DCs wheels.

[Fuzzbucket]

For that matter, the egg could "remember" how much loot you got when you picked it up, and charge you that much to abandon or bite it, but that's getting a little silly imo.

 

Actually, no. That makes sense. Just like when you buy something from a store at 20% off, if you return it, you only get the discounted price back. That I very much support.

[Hawkster]

I vote for Option 11 - Other.

Release more dragons. The more that are released the less chances you have CBer. The more you release the more competition each common has to share with other common dragons.

 

When I started playing several years ago, it was quite common to see all three slots with exact same description / egg. I see that occasionally today, but that is rare. Except during new releases which is not a CBer so doesnt count.

 

I do see two slots with same egg today from time to time. But even when that happens, quite often you only have to wait 5 minutes and at least one if not both of them get replaced. That did not happen as much when I first started playing, sometimes it could be blocked for 10, 15 etc minutes at time .. or until someone decided to finally take one of them or the hour mark came up.

[HeatherMarie]

For that matter, the egg could "remember" how much loot you got when you picked it up, and charge you that much to abandon or bite it, but that's getting a little silly imo.

I actually really like this. It makes sense, it's an extra incentive to keep the egg, and i like fuzzbucket's comparison.

[andromedae]

Both option 2 and 4 please me. I like the idea of a fluctuating trade value to the dragons, as I believe this would make them more sought-out in general, as well as possibly earning them the love that all breeds deserve. Same goes for droughts. I do think it can become quite monotonous to have the same exact breeds be rare or uncommon in the cave, so a little change would be doing no harm. Changing the value of dragons (either by drought or by ratio) I believe would indeed make this game a lot more interesting, without over-complicating the mechanics.

Edited March 30, 2016 by andromedae

[blockEdragon]

Actually, no. That makes sense. Just like when you buy something from a store at 20% off, if you return it, you only get the discounted price back. That I very much support.

Yea but what happens if you spend that gold?

dose it just put the gold in there and then you have an undefined amount of unusable gold?

why not have it given upon adulthood? (freezing could give half of the reward)

Edited March 31, 2016 by blockEdragon

[Obscure_Trash]

For that matter, the egg could "remember" how much loot you got when you picked it up, and charge you that much to abandon or bite it, but that's getting a little silly imo.

For clarification - this cost would only apply to eggs that gave you loot when you picked them up?

[Fuzzbucket]

Yea but what happens if you spend that gold?

dose it just put the gold in there and then you have an undefined amount of unusable gold?

why not have it given upon adulthood? (freezing could give half of the reward)

You can only spend points you have. So I guess - if you want to abandon something you got points from and you haven't enough points to recharge - you'd end up with an overdraft.

[~!~]

For clarification - this cost would only apply to eggs that gave you loot when you picked them up?

Yeah. If you pick up an egg and it comes with 5 gold pieces, or whatever ends up getting implemented, then you have to pay 5 gold pieces to get rid of that egg.

 

Yea but what happens if you spend that gold?

dose it just put the gold in there and then you have an undefined amount of unusable gold?

why not have it given upon adulthood? (freezing could give half of the reward)

Once the bonus is received for picking up the egg, it would just go into your cumulative account and no longer be distinguishable from all the gold you've received for other reasons. So, if you managed to spend ALL your gold and didn't have enough to get rid of the egg, you couldn't get rid of it until you earned enough gold to do it. This is one reason why I think it's a little overkill to implement such a failsafe, especially since I would expect most eggs would not sit long enough in the cave to accumulate significant rewards. (Especially if players are making a habit of snatching cave eggs just for the gold, then dumping them immediately to the AP, which is what the charge-to-abandon mechanic is in place to prevent.)

 

I think there should be a reward earned upon raising a dragon to adulthood - a significantly larger one than just for grabbing the egg. I just think a reward should also be given at the egg-grab stage, to give people an incentive to just pick up blockers, and get them out of the cave. (And, if it was up to me, you'd get to keep the reward even if you dump the egg.) I feel like an element on instant gratification will be a better motivator than a delayed reward, even if it's just a few days, and a reward for something you were probably planning on doing anyway.

Edited March 31, 2016 by ~!~

[NotBambi]

I think there should be a reward earned upon raising a dragon to adulthood - a significantly larger one than just for grabbing the egg.  I just think a reward should also be given at the egg-grab stage, to give people an incentive to just pick up blockers, and get them out of the cave.  (And, if it was up to me, you'd get to keep the reward even if you dump the egg.)  I feel like an element on instant gratification will be a better motivator than a delayed reward, even if it's just a few days, and a reward for something you were probably planning on doing anyway.

I agree that the most significant reward should be linked to raising a dragon to adulthood.

Furthermore I agree that if someone picks up a blocker in the biome and, later, drops it in the AP, the reward should be kept: the person still "spent" 5 hours with the egg in his/her account and an egg in the AP will have quite a bit more chances to be picked once the time lowers. Basically, the person picking up the egg in the biome would be manually working towards what many of us asked to have implemented on the system: dropping unwanted cave eggs in the AP.

 

Example:

- pick up egg in biome, get 5 gold pieces

- raise CB egg to hatchie, get 15 pieces

- raise CB hatchie to adult, get 30 pieces

- drop CB egg or hatchie in the AP, no penalty.

Edited April 1, 2016 by NotBambi

[Paradisiske]

i think we should have the mossy eggs, kick to the ap after 5 mins and bigger and more uncommon releases

[blockEdragon]

Sounds okay from a lore standpoint but hatchie slots are so plentiful that no one really gets locked on a regular basis, having a free eggslot is an event, having 5 free hatchie slots is the norm.

I agree adults should have SOME reward, all forms of aging up should, but eggs are the ones blocking, not hatchlings or adults those get picked up and raised immediately

 

also the guy picking up blockers and then abandoning them is doing more for the community then the guy raising the commons to keep on his scroll because he is moving the cave and putting an egg in the AP, the ratios potentially would be helped a lot more if people actually DID just use the catch-hold-release-repeat method.

 

 

though adults should give a considerable reward,

this one might be a bit more outlandish but hear me out:

 

maybe adult dragons could give a small trickle of gold continuously, and like the eggs, the more common/underpopulated the breed the bigger the interest.

 

Example:

 

Lets say one guys scroll has an army of golds

the army gives him 5 coins a month (if any, rares don't need incentive after-all)

 

lets say another guy's scroll has a frilled army

the army gives him 700 coins a month (which can change if the ratios change)

 

 

Then eggs would be an instant reward, adults would be long term investment.

of course, if that adult becomes rarer due to overpopulation then the rewards slow down and those accidental rares like Xenowyrms won't yield near as much as others of their intentional rarity would because everyone breeds and hoards them.

[VixenDra]

From what I can understand, the currency/store idea gives you money/points/etc for actions that you do normally, such as raising a dragon. But maybe commons could be worth *more*, and only be given upon adulthood. That might work.

Won't work for me, if I was forced to raise these I'd be releasing each single one of them... and I think released stuff doesn't count towards ratios? I will NOT keep more than 1 adult couple per breed, only exept the useful BSAs just because gameplay is too disadvantaged without them. I hate the mess it causes to my idea of a neat scroll of mine.

 

 

And I agree with the post above ( https://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showt...147713&st=250 ). Not just because I don't want the adults on my scroll, but because it is true that picking up the eggs is doing much better for the game overall.

 

 

 

 

from the OP:

 

Option 1 - Breed Retirement - NO! A solid, definite and neverchanging NO! We want past holidays to be available as CBs, not Frills and Bright Pinks - which btw have returned, because retirement is what doesn't work here and is hated by the playerbase, and especially, is unfair to the newer players.

 

Option 2 - Altering Ratios - I'm not sure what it means but seems indifferent

 

Option 3 - Migration / Seasonal Rotation - I don't think it's a good idea. For hoarders of a CBer breed X this would mean they pick up less of these.

Also, rations would probably go nuts, since less of these breeds would exist. In their respective seasons they'd be even more blocky than now, I feel...

Also for me it would ruin Zombie making because I need particular breeds from particular biomes for each Zombie type, e.g. Nocturnes from Alpine or Deep Seas, Greater Spotteds, etc. If they stopped dropping for X out of 4 seasons a year I would be forced to stop tryig for Zombies which take loads of tries to get at last, it's taking months and I'm still far below a half... It's enough I can't see some of the commons or uncommons in the cave whenever I hunt, e.g. I can't see Kyanites in the Forest where I need them from...

 

Option 4 - Scheduled Droughts - doesn't sound like making much sense to me... wouldn't this ruin the ratios too? I'm not sure if I understand it though.

 

Option 5 - auto kick - I don't mind this, and might help, but right now biomes somehow shuffle every 5mins, right? So I guess it would need to apply for things sitting there for 1min and more.

 

Option 6 - More Bio-Domes - a bit more wouldn't hurt.

 

Option 7 - Addition of another egg line - I personally like it a lot, this would give more choice even among the commons.

 

Option 8 - Quicker rotation of eggs - Like from me. Every 1min would make the biomes actually move no matter what the players do, it should also more likely put the CBers given hunters want for them to grab.

 

Option 9 - Random Egg shuffle - I've seen people objecting against this kind of sollution either in Cave or in AP because it makes things kind of unfair if someone can see sth else than someone else...

 

Option 10 - CBer projects - I've noticed the Holly project of 2016 made Storms nearly not in the biomes. This, however, can be done right now and we don't need this implemented?

 

Option 11 - Other

- Mossy Eggs

- More Releases (OMG yes! I was actually disappointed fo rno January release, even though I knew it was never a thing - not as long as I play at least)

- Alts/BSA additions to CBer Species

I'm okay with all, but the Alts for CBers would have to be obtainable as CBs instead of just 2gens and higher, or people would still not catch CBs to try for alts. If they have to catch CBs to try for alts, the CBs would start being picked up, I believe all the uber common breeds should get an alt like this.

 

 

 

What irritates me about biome hunting is that the cave can have 3/3 of the same CBer breed... No choice, it's like there was just 1 egg in the biome instead of 3. Worse is that you can't even see the common you're looking for because it's forever hiding behind other CBers, which you won't pick up because of your egg slots 5h cooldown.

Well, I recently started Tales of Ostlea, the biomes are kind of stuck but the amount of online players is low - 20-45? so there aren't enough people to hunt and move things; BUT in a week I managed to grab a pair of EACH biome-available breed only exept alts. What I found good is that I can see the rares of that game in the biomes... And can even grab them (though I believe it's thanks to such little competition, still I can SEE them unlike the DC rares...). But in there you have 10 egg slots, the abandon cooldown is 1h (instead of 5h on DC) and the limit of growing things is 100. And you can feed your eggs&hatchies and grow them in a few minutes(depending how long it takes you to click all the actions), so I could feed my first batch of eggs and get next, and next and next, moving the biomes when I was playing and even moving them for myself - I could grab like 4 eggs in a row from the same biome yesterday. And the con in there is that the biomes shuffle/reset only at the full hours, instead of 5mins... So, theoretically DC should move much faster - and it does but mostly just every 5mins, despite a much larged playerbase Also I witnessed a new release there. All biomes exept the release biome were dropping regularly, the release biome was flooded with the new breed only. But when the 3-days long flood ended, I can see almost none of that new breed in that biome(I think it was to be a rare? but the release fromt he beginning of Janyary wasnt' a rare and I joined the game about Jan 20th, I haven't even thought this breed might be a new one!), so I guess the ratios work better there - on DC the new breeds are still evening out for LOADS of time(and affecting the breeding of old common X new common:(), on Ostlea it looks like if the ratios kind of reset and the new breed already drops as if it was a breed as long there as others - I may be wrong on that but it does feel so to me when I play (I don't crossbreed so idk how about breeding). Writing this because idk, maybe it would inspire for some ideas that could work for DC?

Idk why but in general I noticed very few people sit in the biomes here... 1-7 when I look? (ofc not counting new releases, it's 40-100 or sth then, I can't remember) But I believe it is so because of how hard it is to grab even a particular COMMON + the low egg limit and long abandon cooldown(2h would be more than enough, it would serve its purpise of preventing massive biome emptying but would also not kind of prevent from hunting so much).

 

Idk maybe in general, changing how the ratios work would help? Perhaps the ratios should reset every full hour(or day?) for the entire game? This way CBers wouldn't be there for evening out the ratios and each hour the same number of e.g. Golds would be generated, just a matter of it they hit the page or not and if you're there to grab it. Theoretically, if you actively hunt for 2h you should actually see at least 1 CB Gold - even if you won't manage to grab it. Right now even to see a CB Gold is hardly ever happening... I've personally seen 1CB Silver total in the biomes, I think (max 2).

 

I believe more eggslots and shorter abandon cooldown would help to some extend... I also kind of like the idea of the more dragons you have the more eggslots, even though I'm not getting more than 5 dragons per breed(alts counted as separate breeds), exept for the few BSAs I can't imagine playing without(Pink, Red, Purple, Magi), meaning I wouldn't reach more eggslots in forever . In general, this would make people less afraid of picking stuff, and even more encouraged to take eggs of various sort. I can tell comparing how I catch commons in Ostlea and how I don't on DC:P

Also if it was possible to hatch eggs a bit sooner? At least, as sb mentioned, the commons?

 

 

 

anyways, I mostly came in to say NO for retirements. I think I did it somewhen in the past but just to make sure.

Edited January 29, 2017 by VixenDra

[Obscure_Trash]

Sounds okay from a lore standpoint but hatchie slots are so plentiful that no one really gets locked on a regular basis, having a free eggslot is an event, having 5 free hatchie slots is the norm.

Speak for yourself. As someone who typically AP hunts, I'm fully locked a lot. And if I'm not, it's rare I have as many as five slots. This year, I've mostly cave hunted... and been surprised by how long I've been locked. On average, the most free slots I've had has been 1 - 3. I slowed down recently because I was trying to trade more than I picked up (clearly a failing effort, lol).

 

That being said, I'm not sure which post you were referencing when you posted. o.o

[Fuzzbucket]

Speak for yourself. As someone who typically AP hunts, I'm fully locked a lot. And if I'm not, it's rare I have as many as five slots. This year, I've mostly cave hunted... and been surprised by how long I've been locked. On average, the most free slots I've had has been 1 - 3. I slowed down recently because I was trying to trade more than I picked up (clearly a failing effort, lol).

What sock said. The ONLY reason I have slots just now was just in case of a late January release !

[Obscure_Trash]

After sitting on this for a few days, I am going to go ahead and close this thread for the same reasons I closed similar threads:

 

This thread was created several years ago, and we have since gotten the five minute shuffle. As this suggestion is now a bit out of date, I am going to go ahead and close this thread.

 

If any user sees this as an issue that needs addressed, they may create a new thread for it.