Trading Inflation

[autumnraynefyr]

I get sad that my purebred eggs are worthless in trade.. Even the 2nd gens; It seems like if it isn't CB its about as valuable as a cave blocker.. ..I even got laughed at for trading with a 3rd gen PB EG alt black.. Well, I should say, trying to trade. He sadly never left his parents side.

Edited March 26, 2013 by autumnraynefyr

[sarantha]

Syphoneira, although I don't particularly like the veterans' biome idea either, I don't really think this trade-inflation problem has actually made it less possible for players to acquire rares. The greater availability of metals has made it more possible to get them, not less. I know several people who have caught a CB metallic for the first time this year. And I'm pretty sure that the people who couldn't catch any metals during this boom were not able to catch them last year either. So it certainly can't be making them LESS available.

 

It's definitely becoming less possible to have fun on the trade threads, though. Either you have a shimmer or CB metal or similar top-tier item to trade, and then people are bouncing all kinds of cool dragon offers off you, or you don't, and crickets. By scouring the trade threads religiously, you can still find people who are looking for certain lineages or certain CB breeds and then you can make a trade, but very few people are doing this anymore and so trading has become much more of a chore.

 

I think some of the suggested solutions, like more alts and more kinds of alts and more dragons with special qualities and more dragons that take extra time and effort to raise, would not only solve the trading ennui, but also give the "have-not" players you're concerned about a few more paths to raredom. :-) Honestly, it's really NOT the fault of a shimmer owner if they don't want or need any more CB blacks or 4th-gen golds. You can't make them want stuff they're overloaded with already. Put in more new stuff analagous to alt blacks and nebula color phases and neglected dragons, and then shimmer owners will have more things they'll be interested in trading for. :-)

I like this idea. It gives us "have nots" a chance to catch up to the people with a billion Shimmers and CB metals. More alts and more kinds of special COMMON dragons with great abilities would make it so much easier for us to get a shot at the kinds of dragons we can only dream of. This is supposed to be a fun, family friendly game, not eBay where the "rich" people only have a shot at getting the really, really good stuff. My daughter would be happy with inbred Shimmer, as long as she got one. It doesn't have to be gorgeous or 2nd gen like some people insist upon for their shimmers.

 

Everyone should have a shot at every type of dragon, since most of us could care less about the lineages and just collect the sprites.

[Syphoneira]

Veterans Biome thread

 

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=148058&st=0

 

 

 

I'd suggest people having a look at this thread, if they haven't yet - it involves a Veteran's Biome accessible only to a (variably defined by different commenters) specific group who have achieved certain levels, highly variable different suggestions being made by commenters regarding length of time they feel should be involved in qualifying, ranging from weeks to a year or more for new people to potentially qualify.

 

This biome has been (variously) suggested as one having new commons accessible only from this biome, which new people, people with smaller scrolls, would not be able to access until certain things are achieved by them.

 

So the commons in that biome would effectively be rare to those not having access, as they would be dependent on those having access trading/gifting in order to obtain any.

 

 

This concept is what is under discussion between Vhale (who unfortunately misunderstood the direction and intent of my post) and myself, which mention arose in the context of concern over the growing emphasis on dragons being considered according to trade values rather than for the fun of catching, breeding, gifting and trading them.

[tjekan]

I'm not a big fan of the veteran's biome idea, but I don't see why we should assume that the idea stems from some kind of class warfare or something. :-) If this (completely hypothetical) veteran's biome required a person to have, say, a bronze trophy to access it, then no, they wouldn't have to beg an oldbie for the dragons from that biome-- they'd just have to raise some dragons on their scroll first to unlock the new area. On the scale of things, that would really be no big deal. If everyone felt they could be sure of getting a shimmer after a few weeks of raising other breeds, for example, there'd be a lot less drama around here right now.

Edited March 26, 2013 by tjekan

[Pink]

What I hate, is being called a rich snob, because I have a lot of dragons or metals right now. Up until Christmas, for years I only had 2 of each metal. Then shimmers came along. I got on a couple of 2 gen lists, and instantly, I was being offered tons of CB metals for a spot on MY future lists. Yeah, I took them, anyone would.

 

I am getting quite reluctant to add to my IOU's now, I am wanting to wait til I actually get some of the shimmers I am on a list for.

 

Well, now I have higher gen shimmers I have recently traded for, and 6 each of gold and silver metals. I am being called rich, and snobby, if I don't accept a deal for a trade. And I won't trade if I am being pressured or harassed.

 

Anyone who knows me, knows I gift constantly, and up til 3 months ago, had a pretty small scroll for someone who has been here for almost 5 years. And it took 5 years of careful trading to get where I am now.

 

Does anyone else have this problem?

I /think/ I do as well. I've never really payed much attention to name calling on here unless it's something I think I should report.

 

I gift pretty much all the time, but I always presumed that the people who claimed that you were "snobby" for not accepting certain offers were simply jealous, feeling entitled, and lacking in tact. Sure, everyone is jealous of people with awesome dragons, but not everyone goes around trying to guilt those people for having nice dragons.

 

But yes, I think if an opportunity to get a 2nd gen prize presented itself almost anyone (regardless of what they say they would do. Human greed kind of overrides principles pretty often, especially when it would cause little-to-no harm to other players), would accept it.

 

I always presumed the correct response to people who claimed lucky players are by default "snobby" is to pointedly overlook them for gifts and/or decent trades. I don't want to encourage that kind of tactless degradation of human beings who have had more luck than you and the resulting entitlement complex.

 

Till recently I had a few metals, but nowhere near what I do now.

I think I would be happy either way. I just like having metals so I can make more lineages with my pebbles and/or waterwalkers, and I collect prizes so I can eventually gift them (to non-whiny people).

 

Edited March 26, 2013 by Pink

[Tawanda001]

I'm not a big fan of the veteran's biome idea, but I don't see why we should assume that the idea stems from some kind of class warfare or something. :-)  If this (completely hypothetical) veteran's biome required a person to have, say, a bronze trophy to access it, then no, they wouldn't have to beg an oldbie for the dragons from that biome-- they'd just have to raise some dragons on their scroll first to unlock the new area. On the scale of things, that would really be no big deal. If everyone felt they could be sure of getting a shimmer after a few weeks of raising other breeds, for example, there'd be a lot less drama around here right now.

This ^

I'm pretty neutral on the idea myself but I don't think this would add to trading inflation. If it were implemened everyone would have a chance to get CBs if they wanted to, even if it meant having a certain criteria to meet first, so I don't see it as adding to the trading problem after an initial adjustment.

Unlike the shimmers, where only a select few will ever have CBs and not many more will have second gens. That continued rarity is what contributes most to the trade inflation IMO

[Shibunari]

This inflation is absurd!

I don't get any good offer on this Black Alt, with both parents Alt, from Alt Sweetlings!!!

 

I only get messy offers, and one cb trio and one long line tinsel...really?

what is going on?!

 

I'll keep my baby!

[DarkEternity]

This inflation is absurd!

I don't get any good offer on this Black Alt, with both parents Alt, from Alt Sweetlings!!!

 

I only get messy offers, and one cb trio and one long line tinsel...really?

what is going on?!

 

I'll keep my baby!

Or more likely everyone's locked trying to trade for CB metals or are locked with shinies attempting a shimmer...

[Shibunari]

You're probably right, but how many time will take to trades go back to normal?

I love trading, it's so fun!

But now, everything I have is "worthless", even a beautiful Black Alt.

[DarkEternity]

You're probably right, but how many time will take to trades go back to normal?

I love trading, it's so fun!

But now, everything I have is "worthless", even a beautiful Black Alt.

It should take a few months for shimmers to settle. Otherwise, if/when CB trios and CB blacks/stripes become much rarer (back to previous rarities) than they currently are, you/we may perceive CB trios to be worth more and may be more likely to think that such an offer is a better deal than it currently is.

[drabrugon]

-off topic comment removed-

 

 

 

 

On topic:

 

There is no doubt that trading is very difficult at the moment, but things are going to get back to normal as soon as more Shimmers are obtainable.

I don't like the trading situation, because most people are excluded from the trading threads because they simply do not have what is asked for. Seeing this every year because of new Prize dragons raffled would be horrible. Increasing the number given out was a step in the right direction.

I think the problem most people see with the market can not be solved easily in a game that is to some extent "unfair" from the beginning in the regards of internet-connection, reflexes and time that can be spend to play actively. Every approach to solve the problem with the imbalanced market that is based on one of these aspects will always lead to even richer "haves".

That is why I love the suggestion to add new dragons with alt versions or new hybrids. They would be rare, but everybody could get them and would have something desirable to trade.

Edited March 26, 2013 by drabrugon

[Amur_Rama]

To be honest, IMO, the fact that even gen and spiral gen trading threads are also for gifting purposes somewhat implies that we are expected to gift away our work. Every other form of dragons has separate threads for trading and gifting. The same should also go for lineages *shrugs*

I noticed that the idea seems to be that people who work in lineages should be "grateful" to find someone to "help" them "keep their lineage going".

 

Frankly, I'd love something to make lineages valuable again, but there's always the problem of mate-making.

 

Perhaps it would be sensible to petition to separate Trading and Lineage sections. That way only people interested in lineages to begin with will be inclined to seek each other out. As it is, we have to fight for very limited attention to people who only want CBs (for their own lineages, ironically, or because they lack the baggage of having to build mates), or believe they are doing lineage-breeders "favors" for taking their eggs off their hands.

[Charbreon]

especially with the shimmerscales... i mean really i saw one wanting 3 neglecteds or something like that... WHO HAS THOSE?? everyone wants a shimmerscale. nobody has like 3 neglecteds. most dont even have one

[Pink]

especially with the shimmerscales... i mean really i saw one wanting 3 neglecteds or something like that... WHO HAS THOSE?? everyone wants a shimmerscale. nobody has like 3 neglecteds. most dont even have one

Actually, neglecteds are fairly widespread.

I know people with 50 or so (I have 8 or 9 myself).

 

That being said, that's not too bad of inflation considering what people have been asking for otherwise.

An ND, especially CB, is worth about 1 CB gold at the moment, and it's not uncommon to ask for 3-4 CB golds for a low gen shimmerscale.

 

Not that it /should/ be that way, but it is, currently, that way.

 

[Voardrem]

I'm currently considering trading a Shimmerscale for a bundle of commons that I love the look of and need for lineages. Perhaps if more people traded for what they LIKED rather than what makes them look richer, the inflation would go down.

[Pink]

I'm currently considering trading a Shimmerscale for a bundle of commons that I love the look of and need for lineages. Perhaps if more people traded for what they LIKED rather than what makes them look richer, the inflation would go down.

Yeah. But there's the sheer numbers standing against you. If I wanted to trade a shimmer for pebbles I would probably get some pretty fantastically huge offers.

(I'm not using fantastic in a positive way)

 

There's always an ideal way things to work, but in this particular case, I think what people like is coinciding with what makes them look richer.

 

[Windrunners]

I'm currently considering trading a Shimmerscale for a bundle of commons that I love the look of and need for lineages. Perhaps if more people traded for what they LIKED rather than what makes them look richer, the inflation would go down.

I think that it's not so much about looking richer as using shimmerscales to attain one's scroll goals. For some owners that have difficulty in catching CB metals, creating NDs or whatnot, it seems like a natural way to trade for them using shimmerscales. Granted other people have other goals in mind, like you, so yes, there are instances when shimmers don't go for metals but that because trading is relative, it depends on what you need at the moment It just so happens that for most people, CB metals are the most difficult to get hence the items worth the most interest

 

Inflation will stay as long as demand outweighs supply. When the market has readjusted itself where supply and demand are relatively the same, inflation will also go down. So it's pretty much a waiting game for shimmer prices to go down.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Valeth

[Riverwillows]

I won't say no to CB metals, but the last two shimmer deals I've made were for CB BSA's, which I need right now.

[AineLeith]

i've got to be the only person that is offering several tinsels for one lowly shimmer... and nada! seriously, I know they aren't 2-4th gens, I know CBs carry more power. But really. 6 Metal eggs for one shimmer is all i'm asking for and no one wants anything to do with them. It's sad.

[TheGrox]

i've got to be the only person that is offering several tinsels for one lowly shimmer... and nada! seriously, I know they aren't 2-4th gens, I know CBs carry more power. But really. 6 Metal eggs for one shimmer is all i'm asking for and no one wants anything to do with them. It's sad.

Multiple long lineage Tinsels are no where near as valuable as a shimmer, imo. Tinsels higher than 4th gen are hardly worth anything nowadays, I don't breed mine.

[SolarCat]

Agreed. The tinsel-craze has faded into the shimmer-craze now.

 

You might have some luck when they become hatchlings, assuming you influence them according to the lineage, but shimmers seem to draw a lot of high-end offers, regardless of generation, so for the rest of us it's just about luck (or good friends who managed to snag one, of course ).

[AineLeith]

Multiple long lineage Tinsels are no where near as valuable as a shimmer, imo. Tinsels higher than 4th gen are hardly worth anything nowadays, I don't breed mine.

which prove the point. Tinsels used to be worth something... especially those from a penk... now nothing.

[AineLeith]

Agreed. The tinsel-craze has faded into the shimmer-craze now.

 

You might have some luck when they become hatchlings, assuming you influence them according to the lineage, but shimmers seem to draw a lot of high-end offers, regardless of generation, so for the rest of us it's just about luck (or good friends who managed to snag one, of course ).

problem being with me, I have never known how someone thinks influencing them one way or the other makes them better. I just don't understand it. And sadly, I have three friends, and one one of them has gifted anything to me. I doubt he's got a Shimmer or he would have told me so.

[Rubin]

problem being with me, I have never known how someone thinks influencing them one way or the other makes them better. I just don't understand it. And sadly, I have three friends, and one one of them has gifted anything to me. I doubt he's got a Shimmer or he would have told me so.

The Shimmers will get more available eventually. It just takes time and patience. I remember the times when the Tinsels were first released and everyone wanted them.

 

I got my first one half a year later when it was ffa'd in the IRC.

 

They will be just as pretty half a year from now. And affordable. So don't be sad if you can't get one right away.

[TheGrox]

which prove the point. Tinsels used to be worth something... especially those from a penk... now nothing.

And now their population has increased to a point where they are nowhere near as rare or desirable as they used to be. The same will happen to Shimmers, in time.