Trading Inflation

[DarkEternity]

But, for that to happen, we would need push from rich players. If they asked for lineages again, and again, people would start to perceive them as more valuable then CBs and would in turn start making their own and try trading with them. Right now, lineages are just something to spend your time on and then gift to other people.

I've tried this. I've been a little discriminant lately with trading, but this is what happens if you ask for lineages and offer lots of CB metals:

- The vast majority of players ask you whether you would accept it if they built a lineage from scratch; I accepted one offer from a player who is fairly reliable with IOUs

- About three players offered basically 'what they could breed from their scroll'

- Some people offered what I stated that I didn't like anyway, this portion is the braver minority; I accepted one offer from one of these people and asked for something which I wanted as an addition

- A portion of 'wealthier' players also offered lineages. It is in human nature to get something for the lowest possible price, so it's quite understandable. But I did try to trade my metals to people who were less likely to have them; that was sort of the point of the experiment.

- Some people had nice lineages which I saw and wanted around the forums, but I did not PM these people as they tended to be 'wealthier'

- Other people offered some stuff which I liked so I think I accepted about four offers

- Other people said that my listing of lineages as something I wanted was 'interesting' and that it had been discussed on the IRC

I've lost track of the number of CB metals I traded off; I think it was about 6 CB metals. I asked for 7+ gens at one point but I ended up accepting lineages between 4th - 6th/7th gens; almost all IOUs from mostly completed lineages. There wasn't a lot of 'choice' lineage wise. Interesting lineages are shorter and there is an almost damaging focus on common lineages like white x gold or black x gold. From when I began the experiment and up until today, I had many different people contact me. So it's not all the same people who breed lineages, which I find is interesting as only a few people who contacted me were regular posters in the even gen trading threads/even gen threads. I assume that the majority of lineages are personal projects based on the data. I used to be a de facto member of the even gen thread until it was split up.

 

For third gen shimmer scale IOUs, the vast majority I offered to people with lineages who were frequent even gen thread posters because these are the threads where I was lurking. Two people said the following:

- That what lineages were not 'worth' 3rd gen shimmers and whether I was sure I really wanted to offer it

- That they felt slightly flattered by the attention that their lineage had received

 

When I asked on the IRC if people were interested in making very long lineages (13th gen non inbred, a deadline of my choice - I suggested sunsong x tinsel) for a 2nd gen holly:

- The amount of time it would consume was a major factor. Scroll space is of paramount importance to most individuals.

- Some people expressed interest, but the number of dragons involved would be 'difficult to obtain'

 

I think that given the choice, most people would prefer to offer CB metals and CB rares because often they are 'easier' to obtain (don't exactly need hard work) and a greater guarantee of securing a trade. Whereas, if you offered chequers etc., you would have a limited audience e.g. me and you have no guarantee that your efforts will pay off; unless you started from scratch basing your lineage off a person's preferences.

Edited March 25, 2013 by DarkEternity

[skauble]

Lol, this place is supposed to be about raising, catching, breeding, gifting and trading for dragons you want.

 

It isn't supposed to be about making a huge 'profit' via continual trading, but about getting dragons.

I don't know, I think the game is supposed to be about what someone wants to make it for themselves. If they want to make a huge profit off of a trade, it's because they either A. want to collect that thing that they're getting in return, or B. want to use what they're receiving to trade for other things that fit in with their scroll goals.

 

Either way, it's ultimately about building one's own collection the way a player likes it.

 

Besides, trading goods and a community together generally leads to the development of some kind of economy. Especially in a setting where rarity is a prominent factor. We were edging it in an unofficial capacity with AP trading, but when trading became official it was pretty much unavoidable.

 

And I don't mean that in a negative way. I think that our little economy here is fascinating, although admittedly often frustrating.

 

I do, however, agree with you that things within the DC economy are broken. But, as I've said before, I think what's skewed things is the prize dragons - not by existing, but by being introduced in such limited amounts.

 

The fact is that we did have this problem with the Tinsels. But the metals weren't raining down then, so we didn't see many offers as huge as the ones now often are. But, really, the magnitude of the offers have largely corresponded with the increase in rares to offer.

 

And, more than that, I think our experience with Tinsels has shaped some of this desperation for Shimmers. Everyone wants on a list or to get a low gen before the lists are all full, to collect all the lines that they can before some folks fade away from the game, to get things to exchange for other Shimmers. Those are lessons learned for having the first set of prize dragons.

 

Again, I don't see that as a negative in respect to the players trying to achieve their goals. The problem is the manipulation of a "natural" economy with something that people can't gather on their own - CB prize dragons. And while the cave doesn't necessarily recognize the difference between CB and lineaged, if we're adding things in via contest, then it should be recognized. Especially since it partially is - hence CB dragons being the prizes. CB holidays would be the same except they only breed true once a year, so you can really only make one deal for them, even though some folks do trade well for commons from them, it's not quite the same.

 

The thing is that if you take Shimmers out of the picture for a moment, the economy isn't bad. Metals hit an upswing in population, but so did most of the uncommons. So everything was more accessible, which means the value is fairly stable. In fact, it probably could have had the benefit of increasing the value of CB hatchlings, BSA dragons, and various lineage.

 

But the Shimmers didn't slide on the economic spectrum with the other eggs. They remained a constant. Of course their value will go down eventually, but if that's at the end of the metal boom than it doesn't help much. And so people had to gather more and more of the only comparable thing we have - rares - but they had to do it in exaggerated numbers to buy into the Shimmer market.

 

And that, sadly, nullified the bonus of the metal boom for a lot of players who may have benefited if those who can get rares are collecting them all for one type of trade. And I want to note here that many Shimmer trades were not for piles of metals, there have been lots of giftings, and CB owners didn't only accept Golds and Silvers, but the fact that people were collecting them to attempt to make trades had an impact. And were going to keep repeating this cycle at this rate - mildly on the years we have the same prize dragon, and wildly when new ones are introduced.

 

I think that two things should happen - 1. We need to increase the CB prize dragon populations somehow. 2. I think that there should be an alternative to just cave catching to get CBs. I mentioned, a while back, that I think maybe we should be able to set traps for hatchlings in the cave. We can't go in, but there's no reason we can't lure them out. Maybe they're not being watched as well because they're the runts in the cave and we could address the time difference in raising them by saying that they take longer because of that. Idk, but I think something should be done on that end of things.

 

Wow, that turned into my Dragon Cave dissertation.

 

I have a CB female ND that I have asked for CB metals or 2-3 gen shimmers for. Is this too expensive now for ND's?

 

I have gotten nothing, for hours.

Right now I think that the prize dragon owners have gotten/been offered lots of NDs. I've seen people offering to make a whole lot of them, so 1 might not be enough. Also, with NDs, there's always the idea in the back of people's minds that one day they'll start experimenting and figure it out for themselves. That didn't used to be the case when there was more mystery to them, but now some people don't offer metals for them because they believe there's enough info out there to one day do it themselves.

 

I find the posts about the blacks/stripes having lost trade value interesting as in the past I've seen many posts talking about not being able to get CBs of them and talking about them being common so they should be easier to get. So these commons seem to be getting more common which to me is the way it should be.

The problem is that with the market upset lately people are not happy about anything more losing value. So it's hard, because yes people want more of them, so it's good on that end, on the other hand, people can't use them as much for substantial trades and that's frustrating.

 

The only way to stop the trading inflation is to bridge the gap between 1 and the other tiers. However, there is another cost. If there are more 2nd gen prizes in circulation the same thing that happened to every single other rare will happen to prizes. They will be worth nothing and only CB prizes will be put in demand. If you makes CB prizes worth nothing, then ONLY 2nd gens from spriters alts and thuweds will be worth anything. Because the instant something ceases becoming ultra rare, human nature invents something else to take its place; no one's interests/needs in this game will ever be entirely fulfilled.

Except that if there were more 2nd gen prize offspring, it wouldn't matter if CB prizes were more in demand because no one could go out and get them. Well, it would matter in the fact that it would make people mad, but not in the fact that people would do various things to trade for them, because that's just not going to happen often.

 

I do believe that people are often drawn to the idea of ultra-rare things, but I don't know that something would have to fill the vacuum to the extent prize dragons had. After all, back in the day most people couldn't realistically get Hollies, NDs, and Thuweds weren't set up on an automatic list like now, so those were harder, too, and although people wanted them, it didn't disrupt anything on a major level.

 

But, for that to happen, we would need push from rich players. If they asked for lineages again, and again, people would start to perceive them as more valuable then CBs and would in turn start making their own and try trading with them. Right now, lineages are just something to spend your time on and then gift to other people.

I just traded a CB Silver for a 3rd gen Silver from a Silver/Blusang checker (and I love it!). And I believe that DarkEternity (IIRC) was offering CB metals for even-gens. I'd love to think that they're making a comeback.

[Eldrene]

Still, those offering rare trades for EG Chequers are looking for Chequers involving CB Metals or Blusangs or Tinsels as bases. It would be really hard to make those from scratch. Specially now that even 2G Metals from common mates already have a high trade value.

There are still people who do trade rares (shimmers, low gen tinsels, CB Metals) for multiple uncommon hatchlings though.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Eldrene

[skauble]

Still, those offering rare trades for EG Chequers are looking for Chequers involving CB Metals or Blusangs or Tinsels as bases. It would be really hard to make those from scratch. Specially now that even 2G Metals from common mates already have a high trade value.

There are still people who do trade rares (shimmers, low gen tinsels, CB Metals) for multiple uncommon hatchlings though.

True, but I've just gone back to cave hunting lately. As I grab more metals I'd trade them for other lineage projects. That's just the one I needed right now. And I trade my low gen bred metals for lineage projects, too. For instance, I'm doing a huge Tinsel lineage project, so I've traded some very nice metals for 5th and 6th gen Tins (I think I'm the only one still actively looking for those ).

 

I think that DarkEternity makes a good point about the value of scroll space and time, and I'm hoping that's beginning to matter again.

 

Frankly, I think that the popularity of the stair-step was also an issue in lineage decline. It's a fast and easy way to make a lineage, and while I enjoy how a lot of them look, their appeal seems to lessen as they grow longer while even gens seem to grow. And, although I know that really high even gens tend to be intimidating for some because it seems like they can never make a mate, I've noticed more and more people talking about working on matching lineages for this egg or that.

 

What I think would help is if we could see an entire lineage on the page all at once. A huge even-gen lineage looks far less impressive when one has to scroll through it down and sideways.

[Becka]

I do, however, agree with you that things within the DC economy are broken. But, as I've said before, I think what's skewed things is the prize dragons - not by existing, but by being introduced in such limited amounts.

THIS!

 

 

IBUT: I believe it is wanted this way, opr TJ would just turn on the "Multi-clutches" for them.....than enough shimmers would have been around fast and prices would have fallen. So I say: whatever the reasons behind that, it is part of the plan.

 

sometimes I get the feeling that we are like in the truman-show, or a giantic society-test......

[Pink]

sometimes I get the feeling that we are like in the truman-show, or a giantic society-test......

Actually, I was thinking this as well. It's been bothering me for a while.

I think we've all become guinea pigs as of late.

 

Maybe TJ thought our economy needed an upset so he adjusted metal ratios and released shimmers.

*shrug*

[tjekan]

I have a CB female ND that I have asked for CB metals or 2-3 gen shimmers for. Is this too expensive now for ND's?

 

I have gotten nothing, for hours.

I suspect that market is pretty saturated. Neglecteds don't breed, so once people meet their scroll goals, they usually don't want any more. Anyone from the fairly small pool of players who can breed a 3rd-gen shimmer, much less a 2nd-gen shimmer, probably has all the neglecteds they want already.

 

You'd think with all the metals floating around, though, that you'd easily be able to trade a neglected for one of those. I wonder if most of the people with free CB metals are all holding out for shimmers.

[mpolo]

I've tried this. I've been a little discriminant lately with trading, but this is what happens if you ask for lineages and offer lots of CB metals:

- The vast majority of players ask you whether you would accept it if they built a lineage from scratch; I accepted one offer from a player who is fairly reliable with IOUs

In the case of your offers, I think the "vast majority" would have said. "I can't possibly get something bred up to the generation DarkEternity wants" and dropped it. I would have had to collect more CBs for any of the checkers you were asking, because 7th-gen needs a whole lot of dragons. You're welcome to ask for such things, but it shouldn't be a big surprise that few people can actually deliver them. By saying you want those lineages, you essentially limit your trading partners to people who have already built up giant lineages.

[Fuzzbucket]

In the case of your offers, I think the "vast majority" would have said. "I can't possibly get something bred up to the generation DarkEternity wants" and dropped it. I would have had to collect more CBs for any of the checkers you were asking, because 7th-gen needs a whole lot of dragons. You're welcome to ask for such things, but it shouldn't be a big surprise that few people can actually deliver them. By saying you want those lineages, you essentially limit your trading partners to people who have already built up giant lineages.

This - even for not so high linages. I have often been in EG trading desperate for a 3rd or 4th gen bloodswap - and no-one can help. It's sad - but it's LIFE !

[Amazon_warrior]

Maybe TJ thought our economy needed an upset so he adjusted metal ratios and released shimmers.

*shrug*

While I can't claim to be TJ's greatest fan, he has often commented that he does *not* tinker with in-Cave availability (well, except for things like the metals over-producing because there was a dp in the wrong place or whatever it was). If so, this boom is presumably a result of player behaviour in the past, which I think is quite interesting.

 

@DarkEternity: I have a decent number of even-gen lineages of 5th-8th gen (many of which are completely self-bred and some of which are checkers), but your post was asking for such specific lineages (none of which I happen to have) that I didn't see it worth wasting my time or yours by offering what I do have. I dunno if you later changed your trade posts to broaden the field a bit because I simply haven't had the time or scroll-space to stalk the trade threads for a while...

Edited March 25, 2013 by Amazon_warrior

[Ayelldee]

Actually, I was thinking this as well. It's been bothering me for a while.

I think we've all become guinea pigs as of late.

 

Maybe TJ thought our economy needed an upset so he adjusted metal ratios and released shimmers.

*shrug*

We're also being forced to change our method of game-play with the AP no longer blocking the Cave, all those low-time eggs, and the Cave ALWAYS dropping. When the drops were even ten minutes there was an adrenaline rush that went along with a drop. Now you can casually drop (har) in on the Cave and stay there for while, then mosey over to the AP which is filled with 5d3h eggs and slowly wander back over to the Cave.

 

Not saying if it's a bad or good thing, but maybe the 'rush' of a drop is gone.

 

I also dislike the 'elitism' that goes with the Shimmers. If you try and make a post in the Shimmer thread - unless you HAVE a Shimmer or are on a list - you're pretty much part of the peon-crown and aren't even honored with a response to your post.

[PointOfOrigin]

@ DarkEternity: I'll be honest here. One of the lineages you asked for was a Bluesang X Tan Ridgewing checker. I can assure you that people capable of catching enough CB Bluesangs to make a 6th gen lineage like that aren't middle class, in term of gameplay. I'm also, fairly sure that they can catch CB metals easily on their own. I can't remember the rest of them unfortunately - that one stuck because it's absolutely amazing lineage.

 

For third gen shimmer scale IOUs, the vast majority I offered to people with lineages who were frequent even gen thread posters because these are the threads where I was lurking. Two people said the following:

- That what lineages were not 'worth' 3rd gen shimmers and whether I was sure I really wanted to offer it

- That they felt slightly flattered by the attention that their lineage had received

 

That's certainly part of the problem - lineage makers themselves, don't appreciate their own effort and they put their dragons lower on the scale of rareness. And that's sad, especially since your experiment proved that nice lineages are rarer and harder to get then CB metals.

 

All, in all, I really appreciate all of your efforts - and I just hope that they'll help change something. I can't catch and trade CB metals; I've only been able to trade CB breeds for 2nd gen of the same breed in order to complete my holiday lineages.

 

ETA: @Ayelldee: Really? As far as I have seen it was one of the best threads we had going, all because of people there participating with their ideas and prize winners that were willing to communicate with the rest of us. The only posts, that I've seen being ignored were the posts that didn't contribute absolutely anything to the discussion and the usual bout of whining. That's it.

Edited March 25, 2013 by PointOfOrigin

[Rubin]

@DarkEternity: I have a decent number of even-gen lineages of 5th-8th gen (many of which are completely self-bred and some of which are checkers), but your post was asking for such specific lineages (none of which I happen to have) that I didn't see it worth wasting my time or yours by offering what I do have. I dunno if you later changed your trade posts to broaden the field a bit because I simply haven't had the time or scroll-space to stalk the trade threads for a while...

^This

 

I did see your post in the trading threads, but the highest gen any of my checkers has reached so far is 5, with me working on 6. And since you were rather direct about what gens you wanted and then restricted the field of dragons as well, I, too, chose not to 'bother' you.

 

Though that's partially also a result of being turned down many times over with 'sorry, I was looking for something more valuable' or 'sorry but I was hoping to get more'

[Amazon_warrior]

*rubs chin thoughtfully*

 

I may run DE's "experiment" again with 2nd/3rd gen Shimmers, but just ask for offers of even-gen lineages that fall within a decent range (6th to 10th, perhaps?) with an emphasis on those with a noticeable pattern or theme. The 2nd gens will have to wait until I've cleared the current lists, though.

[Vhale]

This is one of the lineages Dark Eternity traded a shimmer for http://dragcave.net/lineage/iq4ML

It has occured to me that for someone to get 8 cb blusangs right now, it would probably cost them 4 CB metals. Imo, people are a little spoiled with how easily even genners drop their nice lineage for free on the gifting threads, which is why they don't have much value. So I tend to drop my easier lineages but horde the hard ones.

 

Everyone would have a chance, at some reasonable time, and with reasonable effort, of gaining virtually every dragon on their own.

 

Right now in Suggestions there's a thread promoting the concept of special biomes which would be exclusive, according to various suggestions by commenters, to various degrees, creating a permanent degree of monopoly of access within the very fabric of DC, where only people achieving certain (variously suggested) goals could enter special biomes to get what would be new but 'common' dragons only Dropped there, which could be traded at huge prices by those with entry to those without, those who could not otherwise get them and would have no chance to catch them until fulfilling the criteria which, according to various suggestions, could take anywhere from weeks to months to a year or more, the actual time given being minimum and also depending upon all other DC dragon activity being dropped to fulfill these requirements.

 

The people suggesting this expect to instantly qualify themselves, and have a steady trade source of exclusive dragons together with a steady supply source of have-nots who will do anything to get these exclusive dragons, common for the haves, and otherwise unobtainable, except through 'charity', by the not-qualified.

 

I'm having a hard time controlling my temper in regards to the rude personal insinuations that keep flooding that suggestion. I have been gaming for 15 years. In that time, every mmo I've had the ability and invitation to join the "elite" group. Never have I done so. I've always joined the newbie group, the casuals, the people that work longer and harder to get to the good stuff. Groups of 300 people, instead of an elite 30. Our largest team was 1500. I take major offense to the idea that I would try to rig the game so I could get stuff easier.

 

Everyone would have a chance, at some reasonable time, and with reasonable effort, of gaining virtually every dragon on their own.

Exactly.

 

Right now in Suggestions there's a thread promoting the concept of special biomes which would be exclusive, according to various suggestions by commenters, to various degrees, creating a permanent degree of monopoly

Blatant falsehood. See above quote. The words exclusive and permanent and monopoly do NOT apply if everyone can get access. No different than every single new release, some get dragons faster than others.

 

all other DC dragon activity being dropped to fulfill these requirements.

This is how goals work. When I wanted to catch metals and trios during the boom, I had to leave a spot specifically for that task. If I didn't... then I didn't catch metals and trios. And sometimes that took a week to get an egg. Right now, I'd like to be working on my lineages, but I don't want to miss my opportunity to catch some uncommons for future lineages. So I've suspended all my lineage work for 3 months while I work on CBs. Lineages I've put on hold include:

http://dragcave.net/lineage/iq4ML

http://dragcave.net/lineage/vQqul

http://dragcave.net/lineage/ELIWX

http://dragcave.net/lineage/lSFDB

http://dragcave.net/lineage/M5Jm8

http://dragcave.net/lineage/u1pp1

http://dragcave.net/lineage/l9LcJ

And before someone accuses me of lying due to my sig, I'm satisfied at getting some of these to 5, but I have the dragons to get to 6 and am trying. I got impatient waiting for 6 and wanted to show them off. So I did. And you know, considering I went through the holiday season to get the cb dragons above, that's about 5 months prior to the 3 already mentioned.

 

The people suggesting this expect to instantly qualify themselves, and have a steady trade source of exclusive dragons together with a steady supply source of have-nots who will do anything to get these exclusive dragons, common for the haves, and otherwise unobtainable, except through 'charity', by the not-qualified.

 

steady trade source of exclusive dragons otherwise unobtainable

 

steady source of dragons

 

Metals are prices highly because a dozen people can control the market. Uncommons are priced a little higher because hundreds can control the market. Having a market that involves thousands, will cause another level of trading between hundreds and tens of thousands. Will people pay stupid prices at the first release? Yes, they do that for every new release because there is always the fear that the dragon will be rare and then get blocked behind other non rares. Given that the new biomes would have NO blockers... there is no reason for that fear so anyone with common sense, logic and critical thinking should be more relaxed about it. Obviously, not everyone shares these traits, I can't fix that.

[TemperedBreeder]

With what's being asked, I'm not so sure I'll ever be able to get a Shimmerscale. Kind of a shame...I wanted to include them in my non-inbreed even-gen project.

[PointOfOrigin]

This is one of the lineages Dark Eternity traded a shimmer for http://dragcave.net/lineage/iq4ML

It has occured to me that for someone to get 8 cb blusangs right now, it would probably cost them 4 CB metals. Imo, people are a little spoiled with how easily even genners drop their nice lineage for free on the gifting threads, which is why they don't have much value. So I tend to drop my easier lineages but horde the hard ones.

 

To be honest, IMO, the fact that even gen and spiral gen trading threads are also for gifting purposes somewhat implies that we are expected to gift away our work. Every other form of dragons has separate threads for trading and gifting. The same should also go for lineages *shrugs*

[Watari]

I've noticed the same thing. The trading threads are FULL of people who will accept no less than one or two CB golds. Do they even realize how difficult it is to get ONE CB metal?

Personally, I think people are being too uppity. The only time I'd even think I deserved a CB gold or silver was if I had a very low-gen Shimmerscale. Even then, I'd still consider other offers. Low gen Gold Wyverns and Blusangs just don't seem that valuable to me.

 

That's why I regularly give my EG GW/Blusang eggs to The Giving Tree.

[AineLeith]

I have played this game for about 4 years I think... less if you count the year or so I was gone. But in that many years I have maybe two cb metals. All the others were gifts from extremely nice people. Or maybe not so nice since i know a lot of people don't like 5-12th gen metals. Still, I don't mind what generation they are, I am just happy to have some, and I do try to pass some on to people that need them or want them, even if they aren't 2-4th gens.

 

And when I do trade I try to offer what is wanted, or at the very least what I can only hope is close enough. It's hard to tell though since what someone might think is fair another doesn't. People are hard to please.

[love_HP]

Maybe I'm saying something unnecessary, but...

If by "inflation" it means the market is going so crazy and everyone is looking for shimmers that other trades involving rares can hardly make it, than personally I think there's not much players can do.

Everything has been much less rare (at least when I was here in 2010&2011, teleport just came into being, there were super-rare CB blacks, golds, silvers, etc.) Now 5d CB black eggs can be found easily in the AP, and CB metallics has been dropping like crazy compared to how things were before.

Everything is worth "less" nowadays, it seems, besides a few items - springs for example (though I don't really understand why), blusangs, and so on. Even un/common CB hatchies seem to worth less (I'm not 100% sure about this, but considering the amount of incuhatchable CB eggs in AP now, all it takes is an incubate, an hour of waiting and putting an egg into multiple hatcheries to get a CB hatchie up for trade)

When everything is less rare people will go and try to get something rarest - shimmers. And now there is NO one egg "worth" the same as a 2gen/3gen shimmer, even ND. Inflation is bound to take place, unless TJ changes the ratios. Although I'm fine with the current ratio, who doesn't like more metallics? Especially for I have only one gold (gift from a friend) in more than a year back then, and now I already got 3 or 4 metallics through trades in just a few weeks.

[Riverwillows]

What I hate, is being called a rich snob, because I have a lot of dragons or metals right now. Up until Christmas, for years I only had 2 of each metal. Then shimmers came along. I got on a couple of 2 gen lists, and instantly, I was being offered tons of CB metals for a spot on MY future lists. Yeah, I took them, anyone would.

 

I am getting quite reluctant to add to my IOU's now, I am wanting to wait til I actually get some of the shimmers I am on a list for.

 

Well, now I have higher gen shimmers I have recently traded for, and 6 each of gold and silver metals. I am being called rich, and snobby, if I don't accept a deal for a trade. And I won't trade if I am being pressured or harassed.

 

Anyone who knows me, knows I gift constantly, and up til 3 months ago, had a pretty small scroll for someone who has been here for almost 5 years. And it took 5 years of careful trading to get where I am now.

 

Does anyone else have this problem?

Edited March 25, 2013 by Riverwillows

[Syphoneira]

Hi, Vhale,

 

there was actually no specific mention of anyone in that comment, and no insult intended.

 

I was actually not referring to your comments, but to those of some others, which I think can be easily identified.

 

I am expressing my strong opinion that everything should be accessible to everyone, as it always has been on DC, whether they are actually capable of catching all dragons or not.

 

Many of us joined simply in order to collect and raise dragons, and we hate to see DC effectively turned into a commodities market.

 

No two people are ever going to agree on all subjects, however, it's a pity to become angry over differences of opinion.

 

Also, this ensures that a lot more time is spent being upset than is probably good for your health, because different people are always going to have opinions that differ on many subjects, this being what makes us individuals.

 

You, personally, may not view this as a means of gaining exclusive access for a group to a supply of dragons that can provide you with sought-after dragons easily caught for trade - but others certainly appear to.

 

And that is what this Veterans Biome idea, as suggested by some - perhaps not you, but some on that thread - appears to be trending toward, including periods of up to a year, or even more, before new people are able to access this biome, while they envision themselves as having immediate access.

 

I don't recall your making such suggestions, although if I've missed them, I do indeed dislike such disparity very much, regardless of whether or not I happen to otherwise like the person involved and whether or not i may agree with them on other subjects.

 

I am objecting to an idea, an ideology, not to people.

 

Vhale, keeping groups of people out of a particular biome for months or a year or more has, indeed, been suggested by some commenters, as stated, if not by you - and I must admit to surprise that you somehow felt yourself referred to in this - I very much dislike this notion and, also as stated, I hate to see DC turning from dragon adoption into a dragon commodities market and will object to that idea, without, however, being angry at people merely for holding ideas different to my own.

 

Just to mention - while people at the bottom will indeed move into the group-with-access over time, new people will continuously be joining, so that there will be a permanent group without access.

 

Therefore, there will, in fact, be a permanent new supply of those-without-access and a permanent monopoly over trading/gifting dragons from that biome held by those having it, ensuring high demand for common dragons from there which those-without-access will want NAOW, same as we all always do with dragons new to us, lol.

[Amazon_warrior]

What I hate, is being called a rich snob, because I have a lot of dragons or metals right now. Up until Christmas, for years I only had 2 of each metal. Then shimmers came along. I got on a couple of 2 gen lists, and instantly, I was being offered tons of CB metals for a spot on MY future lists. Yeah, I took them, anyone would.

Ermm, speak for yourself.

[love_HP]

What I hate, is being called a rich snob, because I have a lot of dragons or metals right now. Up until Christmas, for years I only had 2 of each metal. Then shimmers came along. I got on a couple of 2 gen lists, and instantly, I was being offered tons of CB metals for a spot on MY future lists. Yeah, I took them, anyone would.

 

I am getting quite reluctant to add to my IOU's now, I am wanting to wait til I actually get some of the shimmers I am on a list for.

 

Well, now I have higher gen shimmers I have recently traded for, and 6 each of gold and silver metals. I am being called rich, and snobby, if I don't accept a deal for a trade. And I won't trade if I am being pressured or harassed.

 

Anyone who knows me, knows I gift constantly, and up til 3 months ago, had a pretty small scroll for someone who has been here for almost 5 years. And it took 5 years of careful trading to get where I am now.

 

Does anyone else have this problem?

Don't feel bad about it, really. If someone calls you or anyone "a rich snob" because s/he is not getting the trade s/he wants, that is not your problem. In my opinion this is the kind of people that may beg or harass others to get rare dragons.

Everyone has his/her own playstyle. Some people seldom appear in gifting threads, but it doesn't mean they don't gift, they probably just do not frequent the forum. Even those who don't gift - this is completely ok, as long as they don't break the TOS (multi-scroll to get more rares, etc) it's completely fine to me.

For the past few weeks I'm here this year, I've been gifting eggs via TGT (even gen and CB ones), but I am constantly worrying that people may think of me as someone who uses TGT as a "dustbin", dumping eggs I don't need and keep the more "valuable" eggs for myself...though I don't know where I can see others' opinions of me. *shrugs*

[tjekan]

Syphoneira, although I don't particularly like the veterans' biome idea either, I don't really think this trade-inflation problem has actually made it less possible for players to acquire rares. The greater availability of metals has made it more possible to get them, not less. I know several people who have caught a CB metallic for the first time this year. And I'm pretty sure that the people who couldn't catch any metals during this boom were not able to catch them last year either. So it certainly can't be making them LESS available.

 

It's definitely becoming less possible to have fun on the trade threads, though. Either you have a shimmer or CB metal or similar top-tier item to trade, and then people are bouncing all kinds of cool dragon offers off you, or you don't, and crickets. By scouring the trade threads religiously, you can still find people who are looking for certain lineages or certain CB breeds and then you can make a trade, but very few people are doing this anymore and so trading has become much more of a chore.

 

I think some of the suggested solutions, like more alts and more kinds of alts and more dragons with special qualities and more dragons that take extra time and effort to raise, would not only solve the trading ennui, but also give the "have-not" players you're concerned about a few more paths to raredom. :-) Honestly, it's really NOT the fault of a shimmer owner if they don't want or need any more CB blacks or 4th-gen golds. You can't make them want stuff they're overloaded with already. Put in more new stuff analagous to alt blacks and nebula color phases and neglected dragons, and then shimmer owners will have more things they'll be interested in trading for. :-)