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Trading Inflation

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And now their population has increased to a point where they are nowhere near as rare or desirable as they used to be. The same will happen to Shimmers, in time.

I just hope that the CB owners don't stop breeding them because they have everything under the sun they could possibly need because of the insane offers going on now lol like some of the tinsel owners who ended up quitting sad.gif

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I just hope that the CB owners don't stop breeding them because they have everything under the sun they could possibly need because of the insane offers going on now lol like some of the tinsel owners who ended up quitting sad.gif

Or maybe they'll stop asking such high prices that everyone seems to think they ask, if they have everything they need? So everyone will be happy? (not all of them do ask really high prices, though >.>)

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I won't say no to CB metals, but the last two shimmer deals I've made were for CB BSA's, which I need right now.

Yeah, right...I can't believe that at all. You have 12 shimmers and no new BSAs on your scroll. Good luck getting anyone to believe that, especially after the comments you made about wanting only CB metals a few pages back. Haha.

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Yeah, right...I can't believe that at all. You have 12 shimmers and no new BSAs on your scroll.

It was probably one of those deals that dare not speak its name on here, and the BSA hatchlings have yet to be delivered. :-)

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I have 0 shimmers and I've kept most of my CB metals so far.

 

Trade for whatever you want. If people are not smart enough to wait for trading inflation to cool down despite everyone's constant warnings that they will be worth nothing eventually, then perhaps it's the stupidity of people offering the CB metals.

 

Lol.

 

They'll regret it.

 

No need to feel particularly guilty about what you ask for, there have been warnings aplenty in trading. And if you listen to what your peers say about greed and trade them for less, you'll be the one suffering not them when they are massively devalued.

 

Peer pressure and conformity is a funny beast.

 

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And now their population has increased to a point where they are nowhere near as rare or desirable as they used to be. The same will happen to Shimmers, in time.

Except that when people say to wait and the rush will pass and things will even out, they're missing the long-term problem which outlives the rush.

 

No matter how many Shimmers are bred, 2nd gens and many 3rd gens will still be highly sought and viewed by many as a multi-metal trade. Now, I completely agree with you that there are people trading Shimmers for things other than metals. But there are two problems:

 

1. That's not the common perception. And perception tends to dictate behavior. If a 2nd gen Shimmer is someone's holy grail trade, then they'll pursue what they think will give them the best chance.

 

2. A lot of players don't, for whatever reason, network extensively, or they don't use IRC, etc. and they'll rely on gathering a good offer and then using the trade threads. Those people will probably not have a great deal of luck, and they'll have to recreate that great offer repeatedly.

 

So, here's the long-term issue - There are a certain amount of rares dropped in the cave each day. 2nd and (many) 3rd gen Shimmers will generally be viewed as trades requiring metals, and so metals will continue to be vigorously pursued by those who want the very low gen Shimmers.

 

Don't get me wrong, people have always hunted metals, but it wasn't because we had a super-unbelievably-ultra-rare dragon out there that people wanted low gens from (which narrows the breeding pool tremendously) in a large variety of pairings. So while you had some people who focused their collections on metals, most people had a more casual relationship with them, where they may want a CB Gold, they may need it for their scroll goals, and they'll grab at it every time, but they aren't driven to try to amass them, over and over, to try to make these trades.

 

And while one can say that those people will be a small minority, the fact is, as I mentioned before, CB metals are a limited thing. And so a small number of people can actually make a substantial dent in them. That dent they leave has a ripple effect:

 

-Less metals for everyone else to grab

-They're only pursuing that one trade - Shimmers - so others, who are shut out on the cave end of things, now can't trade for them either

-Since more metals are being grabbed and tied up in the Shimmer part of the market, people who now have much less access to them in the cave, try to get them in trade with the same kind of desperation that those that have the metals are attempting to get Shimmers. So those people now don't want anything but metals for their trades.

 

And then we all come here and say, "OMG, did you see that person offering (insert common/uncommon egg here) and demanding a CB Gold?!?" laugh.gif

 

And that won't ever truly simmer down, because it seems like we'll be getting all new prize dragons every few years, and each new normal release means more dragons that people will want to have paired for a new 2nd gen prize offspring.

 

To be crystal clear here - that's not the fault of Shimmer owners (CB or otherwise) or people who are out stalking metals to make Shimmer deals. Those people are playing the game exactly as it's set up. And while they do gift and they do make trades for things other than a boat load of metals, it wouldn't matter even if they didn't because they are not the problem.

 

The problem is that we have a whole set of dragons that are continuously put out by the cave - even the rare ones drop each day. And then we introduce a teeny-tiny, itsy-bitsy amount of a new dragon into the mix. And the fact that the population expands quickly doesn't alter the microscopic number of CBs that exist. That's the destabilizing element. It's not the initial rush, because the population explosion of them addresses that. It's the sustained pursuit of the ultra-low gens that can only be bred by an incredibly small amount of dragons and so that demand doesn't decrease.

 

However, seeing the very pro-active way that changes are being made in the cave and solutions tried for various problems, I'm going to wait and see if maybe TJ is finding a way to address this along with matters like the cave blockers and the AP issues.

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@skauble

Very well put. Although, whether it is something you intended or not, this places prize dragons in a bad light. I don't necessarily think that they are a bad thing if we can fix the inflation they cause. The idea of winning is so exciting and the events are a nice change of pace too. If changes to the cave can be made to take some of the pressure off then I almost hope for a new breed every year.

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I would trade a 4th gen Shimmer for a 3rd gen tinsel. I still think tinsels (low-gens) are sought after quite a bit. No, this was not a "trade with me!" post, but I DO have 4th gen shimmers....anyway, I have 2 CB golds and got an offer of a 7th gen horrible spiral holiday shimmer whose lineage I couldn't continue, and even if it were a Shimmer, it wasn't worth giving up my precious little CB golds. I'm desperately in need of a male gold and I'm not giving him up for a Shimmer I don't want/need. sad.gif

 

Every Shimmer owner thinks ANY Shimmer = multiple CB metals. At least, the only ones I have met.

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Skauble - So then what? Make CB prizes super ultra common? Then watch traders flock solely to second gen spriters alts, second gen frills, second gens from alt sweets, 2nd gen thuweds and second gens from HM CB alts? And back to CB metals and CB NDs?

 

It's not going to help. If you honestly think that CB prizes are the issue, it's not. It's human nature, filling up the void in ultra rares with ultra rares of the mind, institutionalised by the rares trading centre and reinforced by social learning. If we were going to run an experiment, making CB prizes common would produce exactly the results I have described above.

 

If you think that distributing CB prizes is bad enough in a fair raffle or with a slight amount of creativity (seriously, decorating a christmas tree is something a two year old can do - and the decos are predefined), imagine how bad it would be if the only people who got exclusive dragons at all which demands CB metals were artists or they had extinct dragons no one could get. smile.gif

Edited by DarkEternity

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With all the shimmer talk, I am owed 3 and have one on my scroll. I have a list of friends I'm breeding them for free of charge and then I intend to breed them relatively cheaply. All the hullabaloo will die down eventually. Just takes a few more people to help lower their value out of the stratosphere.

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Things weren't like this with the Tinsels.

 

There was a combination of circumstances this year which enabled people good at catching to make unheard-of best-possible offers of as many as 9 CB Golds, (that I've seen, may be higher offers yet) creating a Shimmer bubble which will crash shortly except, as has been pointed out, as well as the preceding, in some excellent analyses, with the lowest gens which would likely remain inflated, if not to the same extent.

 

If Golds (and other almost-impossible-for-(edit)-many-to-get-sprites) are, by any chance, to become closer proportionally to the other breeds in ratios on a permanent basis, so that people in general have a chance of catching them, this will settle down, although I'm afraid that otherwise, we're going to be stuck in a trading economy with a Gold standard and become a microcosm of the world we come here to get away from, lol.

 

The Prizes are an excellent thing, in my view, (even though I'll probably never win one myself, lol,) we just need a better balance among dragon types so as to prevent super-inflation of the 'price' of any breed in future.

 

Trading is only a part of this collection game, something intended to help get people what they want on their scrolls and it would be sad - more, it would no longer be DC - if dragons were to become valued only for what they could fetch in trade.

Edited by Syphoneira

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Skauble - So then what? Make CB prizes super ultra common? Then watch traders flock solely to second gen spriters alts, second gen frills, second gens from alt sweets, 2nd gen thuweds and second gens from HM CB alts? And back to CB metals and CB NDs?

 

Except that this was never a problem before we had Prize dragons. There were some people who went after those things in a big way, but not the majority, and it wasn't disruptive the way that these have been. And these days NDs are way more available and Thuweds have an automated list. And my niece has alt. Sweetlinss and even when I had it listed in my profile that she'd breed them for people it was never a huge amount of interest.

 

And the CB prizes ultra-rarity doesn't mean the above dragons aren't rare, but even the interest in 2nd gen Thuweds is mostly just watching to get on the list as opposed to a massive trade market for the ones people get. Which isn't to say that they wouldn't be a valuable trade, just that they aren't largely and aggressively pursued the way that low gen prize offspring are.

 

The thing is that I like the prize dragon concept. I think that it's an interesting way to introduce a new dragon, requiring participation in the holiday event gets people to the site and active, and it's a great game extender. But I can't figure out why there were so few handed out in the first place.

 

I mean, there's a lot of things in the game that cause some issues, but the benefit outweighs the cost and/or controversy. But I don't get where the benefit in ultra-rarity comes in. It wasn't necessary in order to make the prizes special. You can feel great about winning a million dollars in the lottery even if you don't win 250 million in the power ball version. Having a CB of them would still be a special, limited thing even if many, many more people had them. We seem to judge what their rarity should be simply by what it is right now, and so less rarity seems almost unfair, but a prize given out many times above the number that were awarded would still be a special prize that most users didn't have. The incredible ultra-rarity seems like overkill.

 

If the gave out hundreds it would still be a tiny drop of players who got them. But it would widen the low-gen trading market up a great deal. It's unnecessary to have them be this rare to be a reward or to have it extend game play, so what's the benefit that offsets the issues that come with it?

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Yeah, right...I can't believe that at all. You have 12 shimmers and no new BSAs on your scroll. Good luck getting anyone to believe that, especially after the comments you made about wanting only CB metals a few pages back. Haha.

12 shimmers? No new BSA's? Who's scroll are you looking at?

 

I have 1 grown Shimmer, 2 hatchie shimmers, and 8 CB BSA's in egg or hatchie form.

 

You are definitely not looking at my scroll, and I don't see how you need to be attacking me.

Edited by Riverwillows

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=_________= /still thinks that multiclutches would be less intrusive and less likely to force reliance on trading and mitigate inflation

/wishes that prize dragons were not so rare in the first place as it unfortunately sets precedents/expectations

/is shot

(I just hope it's not going to turn out like summoning where it's possible for everyone to win except one person ... Idk. And then if one prize e.g tinsels was way rarer than something e.g. Shimmers D|)

D| in general (it's an emoticon) I feel like I am not making sense.

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Isn't it possible that the perception going on right now is just because of the rare boom? More rares dropping means that traders have more to offer, which means that shimmers are going for higher prices and the perception of their value and what it takes to get one is inflated. I imagine that this will take awhile to die down because once people see/hear of shimmers going for cb metals or multiples, that sets expectations and then they continue it on with the next generation.

 

I'll admit I wasn''t around for the tinsel release (I was on hiatus at the time) so I missed the trading drama then...

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This inflation is absurd!

I don't get any good offer on this Black Alt, with both parents Alt, from Alt Sweetlings!!! ohmy.gif

 

I only get messy offers, and one cb trio and one long line tinsel...really?

what is going on?! unsure.gif

 

I'll keep my baby! cool.gif

I think giving some precise ideas on about what we are looking for really helps in having nice offers.

Saying just somethink like "your best offer" can mean everything. And maybe people with good things like multiple cb trios or low gen metals think you are looking for shimmers and they just don't offer anything.

 

I had the luck to hatch 2 alt blacks in the past days, and I traded one for a couple of springs IOU (I badly wanted springs) and the other for a cb thunder and a cb nebula, which I though was a good offer.

 

So my suggestions is to give some hints about what is a good offer for you

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Yeah, right...I can't believe that at all. You have 12 shimmers and no new BSAs on your scroll. Good luck getting anyone to believe that, especially after the comments you made about wanting only CB metals a few pages back. Haha.

Just. THIS^^^.

 

I just read that somebody offerd 6 CB Metals - that's SIX CB Metals for a 5gen Shimmer IOU! And WAS TURNED DOWN because the grabby-handed Shimmer-owner didn't feel 6 was enough for a 5gen - AND an IOU at that!! Total insanity, I hate what this has done to DC with all the 'haves' and the rest of us 'Great Unwashed'.

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Just. THIS^^^.

 

I just read that somebody offerd 6 CB Metals - that's SIX CB Metals for a 5gen Shimmer IOU! And WAS TURNED DOWN because the grabby-handed Shimmer-owner didn't feel 6 was enough for a 5gen - AND an IOU at that!! Total insanity, I hate what this has done to DC with all the 'haves' and the rest of us 'Great Unwashed'.

I read the same thing in the other thread but I think it should also be mentioned that every other Shimmer owner replying to it agreed that it was an insane thing to ask for more than six CB Metals for a 5th gen.

 

I can fully understand the current frustration of people unable to pay the prices that are being asked for Shimmer trades. (Heck, I'm one of them xd.png). But I'll just repeat myself by saying that things will change eventually. The Tinsels got afforable for 'common' folks eventually, the Shimmers will as well. It just takes some time for the first rush to settle down.

 

 

 

As for that quote accusing a Shimmer owner of lying - the person writing that was looking at the wrong scroll. And that aside I really don't think it is necessary to get personal. :/

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As for that quote accusing a Shimmer owner of lying - the person writing that was looking at the wrong scroll. And that aside I really don't think it is necessary to get personal. :/

@ Rubin, as a nice person you should know that other nice people are NOT accusing somebody without a reason wink.gif. I think everybody here (like the person you are talking about) deserves a honest feed-back about how their actions look like to the community. The problem is that some people are slow on the uptake.

Edited by drabrugon

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@ Rubin, as a nice person you should know that other nice people are NOT accusing somebody without a reason  wink.gif. I think everybody here (like the person you are talking about) deserves a honest feed-back about how their actions look like to the community. The problem is that some people are slow on the uptake.

No one should be accusing anyone of anything. Or attacking people because they trade their shimmers for CB metals, OR calling people a liar.

 

TJ has stated over and over, there is no such thing as hoarding or greed on Drag Cave, everyone is free to play the game exactly as they want.

 

As a shimmer owner, I want CB Metals for my shimmers in order to reach other goals. What those goals are is nobodys business but my own, and what the 'community' (aka a few disgruntled people) think of it is irrelevant. Just as what I think of your trades is irrelevant.

Edited by Dubious

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@ Rubin, as a nice person you should know that other nice people are NOT accusing somebody without a reason  wink.gif. I think everybody here (like the person you are talking about) deserves a honest feed-back about how their actions look like to the community. The problem is that some people are slow on the uptake.

Actually Rubin is right. She was accused of having 12 shimmers and no bsas. Anyone that looks at her scroll can see that isn't true. she's stuffed with pink hatchies. It can't be honest feedback if it's based on someone else's scroll.

 

It's also hypocritical as the same person calling out River was claiming they'd take trios for their shimmers. So I contacted them as I had 13 magmas on my scroll and they indicated they'd be interested. I drove home and found they'd opened an IOU list and wouldn't answer any further pms about the egg we'd been discussing or their list. Then they put the same egg we'd been discussing in the trade forum as shimmer or tinsel swap only the next day. Still wouldn't answer pms. Tried putting the magmas on a trade link as they still had, I want trios in their sig. STILL no pm and they rejected and they took wanting trios out of their sig. It hatched, dunno if they ever traded it. I shrugged and went back to my magma for hatchy trading. Got my 16 males. On to other projects.

 

Ironically, i was gifted a shimmer from what if I remember correctly, the same "nice" trader was complaining they couldn't get a reply when offering 6 cb metals and a shimmer. But, people shouldn't call out others on the forum for what they've done themselves.

Edited by Vhale

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Yeah, right...I can't believe that at all. You have 12 shimmers and no new BSAs on your scroll. Good luck getting anyone to believe that, especially after the comments you made about wanting only CB metals a few pages back. Haha.

Just. THIS^^^.

 

I just read that somebody offerd 6 CB Metals - that's SIX CB Metals for a 5gen Shimmer IOU! And WAS TURNED DOWN because the grabby-handed Shimmer-owner didn't feel 6 was enough for a 5gen - AND an IOU at that!! Total insanity, I hate what this has done to DC with all the 'haves' and the rest of us 'Great Unwashed'.

The person named in that post does NOT have 12 shimmers and is gifting and trading them perfectly reasonably. This thread WAS about trading inflation, not about the actions of any individual, but even less about total misinformation being posted about an individual and used as a suggestion that they are trading unfairly. That particular person is a fair trader with whom I have dealt. Posting unpleasantly about her is just dirty pool. (*waits for warn. It was worth it.*)

 

But this kind of "discussion" - if you can call it that - is just part of everyone (OK ever so many people) being very silly about shimmers. OK we'd most of us like one - but most of us are prepared to wait. Why is this worse than the tins ? In MY PERSONAL view - because these particular dragons are stunning. If I had to choose - no contest. Most of us here trade fine with people we like to trade with. A few people are being ridiculously demanding Don't deal with them and the problem goes away. It's the same principle as don't feed the trolls.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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Actually Rubin is right. She was accused of having 12 shimmers and no bsas. Anyone that looks at her scroll can see that isn't true. she's stuffed with pink hatchies. It can't be honest feedback if it's based on someone else's scroll.

I think drabrugon was referring to the fact that River has a list of Shimmer IOUs for the offspring of which she has already traded IOUs as well. Meaning Shimmers she 'owns' but hasn't received yet.

 

It's not a kind of trade I personally would agree to, but I do believe the people who are on those lists knew full well what they were getting themselves into. Which in my eyes makes it nothing to be huffing about.

Edited by Rubin

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I think drabrugon was referring to the fact that River has a list of Shimmer IOUs for the offspring of which she has already traded IOUs as well. Meaning Shimmers she 'owns' but hasn't received yet.

 

It's not a kind of trade I personally would agree to, but I do believe the people who are on those lists knew full well what they were getting themselves into. Which in my eyes makes it nothing to be huffing about.

The post said there were 12 shimmers ON HER SCROLL. And drabrugon isn't the person whose post I was primarily objecting to, it was the person who said River had those shimmers on her scroll.

Edited by fuzzbucket

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The post said there were 12 shimmers ON HER SCROLL. And drabrugon isn't the person whose post I was primarily objecting to, it was the person who said River had those shimmers on her scroll.

I hate to drag this out, but I'm pretty sure they meant to say 'CB metals', not shimmers. Otherwise, the numbers don't match up.

 

That said, I'm pretty sure this is way off topic and getting way out of hand. People can trade, catch and collect however they want.

Edited by Juujinx

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