2011-12-25 - Happy Holidays

[LuckyFreckle]

I have a wonderful idea for those who choosing to complain instead of critique. Drop your hatchlings to the AP. Problem solved, you don't have to look at them anymore.

 

I understand critique. Critique and constructive criticism are healthy, however, complaining, bickering, and honestly, in my eyes, telling the spriters that there are things that need to be fixed, is not healthy.

 

Nobody will be 100% happy with everything, or this would be a very boring world to say the least. However, at the same time, these spriters do this for free, only devoting their time to something they love. If you don't like the dragon, by all means, drop it to the AP and you won't have to deal with it anymore.

 

As for the other side of the group, whether complaining or critiquing, they shouldn't be talked down to or treated like an inferior because they don't agree. I'm not saying anyone is doing this, just popping it out as a reminder.

 

But yes, I can understand why we have a certain number of spriters. I've thought about learning to sprite, and have actually tried a couple of times, so I've realized JUST how much work it actually is. I can imagine that each dragon is something very special to the spriter.

 

I was hoping for a blue/silver type dragon this year, because we have a bunch of red, white and gold, but maybe next year. In the meantime, I think this Winter Magi is gorgeous and elegant. I have no idea what I should pair him with!

[Alexiel Dragoness]

Lol wow

 

Guess it wouldn't be a holiday without the customary complaint group 

 

It is done waaaaay better then some of the complainers could do I am sure.

 

Well,I'm not a spriter,but that doesn't mean I doesn't have the eyes to see,or the right to give my opinions and critics. If the spriters doesn't want to hear them,that's not my problem.

usually people(and spriters) here,just want to hear nice things,such "it's stunning!","everything is roses!". I'm sorry if I hurt someone by saying what I feel and not hide behind bootlicker comments. It is said here that spriters appreciate critics so they can improve their artwork,but they actually just hear what they want to.

 

I know that in past releases,many comments got erased for the critics they have.

well,if you don't want critics,then please don't act in the opposite way and get mad when people criticize. Its very easy to play dumb and say that people are "complaining" and not "critisizing".

Edited December 29, 2011 by Alexiel Dragoness

[Riku-Heartilly]

I've been lurking this thread on/off and I read every post whenever I do check back on it and I...

 

Really don't see anyone trying/purposefully being mean here.

They all seem to just be giving their opinions and thoughts on the dragon. Art will never be perfect, and everyone has different preferences and tastes. Dragons aren't real creatures, they can be drawn however one wants them, or even interpreted however the artist desires.

 

People have different tastes, therefore they will voice their opinion on aspects they may not like. Infact, the majority of those giving said opinions on the anatomy and such all seem to like the Winter Magi in general, so I don't see why there should be any reason to be upset. It's just they're giving their thoughts and input on the subject. <:

 

I love the dragon myself, no it's not perfect, no dragon sprite is and none will ever be 'perfect', but it's gorgeous and 90% of the users here seem to really like it.

[Oddsoxdi]

There's a difference between purposely trying to be mean and entering a thread simply to say "Well personally I think it stinks".

 

I'm also an artist, I earn my living that way. To the 'well it's my opinion and I have every right to voice it' group I can only say, does voicing it really accomplish anything? Does simply saying 'I don't like the colors (color being one of the most subjective and personal of things)', or 'I don't like the forelimbs' really DO anything, especially since this is a finished piece, not a sketch? Not every thought one has should be voiced.

 

Nice job Earthgirl, please pardon my slobbering all over your boots for giving you a compliment.

[DMDx3]

WOW... The new dragon is BEAUTIFUL! There's nothing I love more on a dragon than huge wings. I love the colors, the pose, the excellent shading, and the little frilly things on his head. ^-^ Awesome job earthgirl!

[Reidragon]

Well,I'm not a spriter,but that doesn't mean I doesn't have the eyes to see,or the right to give my opinions and critics. If the spriters doesn't want to hear them,that's not my problem.

usually people(and spriters) here,just want to hear nice things,such "it's stunning!","everything is roses!". I'm sorry if I hurt someone by saying what I feel and not hide behind bootlicker comments. It is said here that spriters appreciate critics so they can improve their artwork,but they actually just hear what they want to.

 

I know that in past releases,many comments got erased for the critics they have.

well,if you don't want critics,then please don't act in the opposite way and get mad when people criticize. Its very easy to play dumb and say that people are "complaining" and not "critisizing".

Lolz simmer down there xP

 

I find it amusing that I in NO way insulted you and yet you call me a bootlicker.

 

Who is belittling now?

 

Your crits are all opinion crits.

 

There is NOTHING anatomically wrong with the sprite at /ALL/.

 

Every crit you gave was based soley on what YOU think the dragon should be like.

 

Not what the artist envisioned for her own dragon.

 

As far as what artists want and don't want as far as crit?

 

Sure I see that crits on anatomy errors or whatever are helpful. But things such as coloration? That's not helpful at all. That's the artists own preference and in my opinion yes people have a right to dislike it but they don't have a right to say it 'needs to be changed' or is a 'flaw'.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Reidragon

[Riku-Heartilly]

There's a difference between purposely trying to be mean and entering a thread simply to say "Well personally I think it stinks".

 

I'm also an artist, I earn my living that way. To the 'well it's my opinion and I have every right to voice it' group I can only say, does voicing it really accomplish anything? Does simply saying 'I don't like the colors (color being one of the most subjective and personal of things)', or 'I don't like the forelimbs' really DO anything, especially since this is a finished piece, not a sketch? Not every thought one has should be voiced.

 

Nice job Earthgirl, please pardon my slobbering all over your boots for giving you a compliment.

Yes, because finished pieces are almost always the one's to get critiqued the most and be given said opinions. They help give an artist a view on what they could work to improve on in the future when they design other works.

 

Things such as colour, helps the artist notice that they could work on colouring something a little differently or better.

 

Things like anatomy, help the artist improve and work on fixing their anatomy for future references, if they notice a trend in their work that others seem to note or point out.

 

WIP pictures, while they should also be critiqued, it's the finished work that should be critiqued the most. Not all critiquing is bad either. None of the critiquing done in this thread in regards to the WM were bad either.

 

I've not really noticed a single bashing comment on this dragon or anything of that sort and no one here was really being mean.

 

Not trying to start drama, this is an interesting debate, everyone in this thread that has critiqued have all stated numerous times that they love her dragon.

 

The only ones who don't like it(The WM) are ones whom haven't really voiced critiques, most likely to be polite and show their appreciation towards the artist for the new dragon.

[Bunnyo22]

I happen to love the Winter Magi's. The only thing I dislike about the dragon is how the left back leg looks a bit like it's connected to the wing, not the body. Besides that, I love the colors an feel of the dragon.

[blobber]

I have a wonderful idea for those who choosing to complain instead of critique. Drop your hatchlings to the AP. Problem solved, you don't have to look at them anymore.

 

Exactly. Nobody likes every single dragon. There are a few I won't bother to click, but they may be loved by others.

If you don't like them then don't have them. Simples.

 

I think this is the nicest Christmas dragon yet, though.

[AngelKitty]

OH GOD THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS?! AND THOSE OPINIONS ARE DIFFERENT THAN MINE?!?! AND THEY'RE SPEAKING THEM?!?!?! WHAT IS THIS DEATH-DEVIL-EVIL BLASPHEMY?!?!?!?!

 

All sarcasm aside, I like the sprite. The head reminds me of a night fury for some reason.

[tyto_alba]

OH GOD THERE ARE PEOPLE WITH OPINIONS?! AND THOSE OPINIONS ARE DIFFERENT THAN MINE?!?! AND THEY'RE SPEAKING THEM?!?!?! WHAT IS THIS DEATH-DEVIL-EVIL BLASPHEMY?!?!?!?!

 

All sarcasm aside, I like the sprite. The head reminds me of a night fury for some reason.

I lawled. :3

[Dracaena]

Speaking as a newer player who just had their first DC Christmas, I've had a wonderful time. I enjoyed the stories and artwork. I am happy the pressure was off to create an awe inspiring wreath and the drawing is random raffle.

 

The new dragon is neat, I love the snow on the eggs falling off as it gets closer to hatching. I was totally delighted to be able to catch my eggs within the first 10 minutes of trying. I was expecting excruciating hours like Halloween. Took me a good half a day of trying, stalking the hourly drops and despairing I would get any. So happy the Christmas eggs weren't that way.

 

The icing on the cake was catching my leetle tree yesterday in the cave. Been stalking those since I first found out about them last summer.

 

Thank you TJ, spriters, and all the behind the scenes people for a great DC Christmas Holiday. Now to wait for my new babies to grow up and figure out mates for them to create pretty lineages.

[Ceiyru]

I love the little sprites and can't wait for mine to grow to adults. Thanks Earthgirl for the wonderful winter dragon. And thanks TJ for keeping this site up.

[Kila]

There is NOTHING anatomically wrong with the sprite at /ALL/.

 

Every crit you gave was based soley on what YOU think the dragon should be like.

 

Not what the artist envisioned for her own dragon.

 

As far as what artists want and don't want as far as crit?

 

Sure I see that crits on anatomy errors or whatever are helpful. But things such as coloration? That's not helpful at all. That's the artists own preference and in my opinion yes people have a right to dislike it but they don't have a right to say it 'needs to be changed' or is a 'flaw'.

To be fair, Wookie pointed out that the dragon's front limbs look more biped than quadruped. The hatchling is clearly a quadruped, and the adult suddenly has biped arms. I would call that an anatomy/execution flaw. Had EG done a better job executing the front limbs to reflect those of a quadruped, Wookie wouldn't have pointed it out.

 

And critiques on color are just as valid as those on anatomy. I find the sprite incredibly busy, but at least I'm able to differentiate the different values among all the shades. Kind of. The red could have used a little more contrast in the shadows. I've given a whole spiel on the color red before and I'm not going to do it again. And the green could have been made less on the blue end of the spectrum. This isn't a spruce/pine related concept, where a green with blue tones would have worked wonderfully.

 

So the sprite does have its flaws, pointed out by people who are experienced in anatomy and color theory.

 

That said, I like the sprite, but I'm not in love with it. I can appreciate the quality of the work, but the overall business, the few anatomy errors, and the failure to really scream "Christmas holiday" really kill how much I could have enjoyed the piece.

[_Z_]

Lets start with these reminders, while I go back and read this topic.

 

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=boardrules

Respect Others

It isn't possible to get far in the world if you refuse to respect others. Treat others kindly, don't insult them, and others will do the same in return.

If you refuse to treat others well, then you will get not only a warning, but a bad reputation, which opens the door for more negativity.

 

Use Constructive Criticism

When someone posts their art or other types of creation, they generally do not want it insulted or put down.

If you do not like a work, post how you feel it could be better; Offer suggestions for improvement, but do not insult the creative works of others.

 

 

 

[RotomGuy]

Lets start with these reminders, while I go back and read this topic.

 

http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?act=boardrules

 

 

Thank you, I thought this war argument would never stop x3

[lilacamy931]

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion At the end of the day that is what makes a community. It is just a shame that it appears to be a trend to point out everything and just be grateful (and of course this is my opinion).

 

Critiques are great though as someone pointed out this is a finished piece and here to stay, I do feel reading some could be reapplied as a critique and are a little on the harsh side. I just hope that spriters take it ok otherwise I would hate to think the game dying in a couple of years as everyone has such a strong opinion. This probably does not make sense as tired and going to bed but if everyone keeps manners and consideration when typing and when giving constructive critcism really think about what you are saying since someone spent their time to try and give everyone a little joy. Not everyone will love every design but lets remain a community

[Windnose]

I wish the dragon was in a different pose. I dont like how the colors of it's hind legs and body blend in with the wings but the front legs are white and stick out so much. It's a very cute dragon though. I think I would just prefer to look at a pose that shows the back of the wings, instead of the current pose.

 

I wish Christmas dragons came with their own descriptions underneath the general Christmas dragon description.

[Kelkelen]

I do think it merits pointing out that critique is often more useful to an artist *when the work is still in progress.* If you critique something while it's still being worked on, good, then the artist can respond to the specific critique and alter things accordingly. Once a work is finished, critique is less 'practical,' because the artist can only take general concepts from what you say, but isn't likely to go back in and alter a finished piece.

 

So, I think the holidays must be especially difficult for spriters, because they work on their dragons sight-unseen, and have to reveal them at the end without having received public critique along the way, unlike other dragons in the Request thread.

 

Just... think before you crit. If I were the spriter, I wouldn't feel receptive to a zillion suggestions of things to change *right* when the sprite first came out. Maybe in a week or two, I'd ask a few *select* people or a certain thread for input. But even then, I wouldn't necessarily want to hear everyone's nit-pick of my work. So are you truly voicing your critique with the aim of helping the artist? Or are you just enjoying a mutual nit-pick-fest? If you want to help an artist, then you have to take the artist's own wishes into account, or else you're just using critique as a cover for "I can say whatever I want."

[Sandface]

So, I think the little dragons are beautiful! The colors really emphasize the Christmas spirit. I do have a few crits for it though. I just want to say, that the belly, should've been more distinctly made out, it's hard to see where the body is. I also think the arm on the left looks bigger than on the right, but I'm sick, so I might just be seeing things. Haha, and I think the wing on the right could've used a little more shading. But that's just my opinion. I will treasure these forever, because this is the first Christmas I have recieved 2 of the CB Christmas dragons. They are beautiful.

[Kila]

I do think it merits pointing out that critique is often more useful to an artist *when the work is still in progress.* If you critique something while it's still being worked on, good, then the artist can respond to the specific critique and alter things accordingly. Once a work is finished, critique is less 'practical,' because the artist can only take general concepts from what you say, but isn't likely to go back in and alter a finished piece.

 

So, I think the holidays must be especially difficult for spriters, because they work on their dragons sight-unseen, and have to reveal them at the end without having received public critique along the way, unlike other dragons in the Request thread.

 

Just... think before you crit. If I were the spriter, I wouldn't feel receptive to a zillion suggestions of things to change *right* when the sprite first came out. Maybe in a week or two, I'd ask a few *select* people or a certain thread for input. But even then, I wouldn't necessarily want to hear everyone's nit-pick of my work. So are you truly voicing your critique with the aim of helping the artist? Or are you just enjoying a mutual nit-pick-fest? If you want to help an artist, then you have to take the artist's own wishes into account, or else you're just using critique as a cover for "I can say whatever I want."

I think that because the aprite is done in secret makes critiquing the final product more helpful.

 

I know that when I did the Sweetlings I made sure to talk to people who knew anatomy better than I did (which is why I asked Neph to sketch). I went to Momo and Glasswalker to ask about shading the ribs, and then Neph and I sat and talked for hours about which shade of pink to use (when we'd finally decided on pink instead of the original chocolate I'd wanted).

 

EG tends to work alone, which isn't inherently a bad thing, but without the outside perspective sometimes flaws go unnoticed (like the lack of contrast in some of the reds, making it appear as a solid mass, etc).

 

That's why feedback from the entire community is important.

 

If EG chooses to take any of the crits, that's her prerogative, but I believe that by keeping silent I'd be doing more harm than good.

[lilacamy931]

i cant wait for my little ones to grow up and also to see the alts!

[Rally Vincent]

Contrary to popular believe, conformity is not a forum rule. Any user is allowed to voice his/her opinion, even if - god forbid - it differs from other user's opinions.

[_Z_]

Everyone is allowed an opinion, as long as that opinion does not break forum rules.

[Kelkelen]

Contrary to popular believe, conformity is not a forum rule. Any user is allowed to voice his/her opinion, even if - god forbid - it differs from other user's opinions.

Hey, I'm *not* trying to shut people up. Just trying to point out the difference between useful critique and complaining, and also suggesting that it be done in a way from which the artist can actually benefit. Basically, some people are doing one, some people are doing the other, and they probably all know who they are.

 

@Kila -- It's true that post-release is the only time for the Holiday dragon to be critiqued. I don't think that makes it "more helpful" than an in-progress critique -- I think it's sufficiently *less* helpful, but it *is* the only time that public critique can happen. I'm not saying the criticisms people have posted here aren't valid, and I'm not saying that everyone has to like the sprite or that people have to agree. I'm only saying that people should remember their tact, which the majority of posters do seem to.