Cave Feedback

[Leneth.]

a doctored 2nd gen tinsel will never be as valuable as a real 2nd or 3rd gen. ever. the real ones are not losing any value being compared to doctored lines.. they are two different things, in two different ball parks. the only difference is that the tombstones are appealing to the people who want them, and are also easier to get. again, this doesnt make them more valuable.

I know this

 

But still feels that the fake sec gens are making the real ones "less rare".

 

And i also support the lineage-reason, as im a lineage-player myself.

 

But this is only my opinion, you know. And im not really bothered by the fact that not all agree with me

Or understand my arguments.

 

[Imbecamiel]

*sigh* I can see and sympathize with both sides of the showing vs. not showing lineages argument, really. But to be honest, I'm afraid that I incline toward those who feel like even an optional show/don't show lineages feature would be spoiling a lot of my hard work.

 

Y'know what gets to me about the people who keep freaking out about tombstones providing a "shortcut" way to get more valuable trade fodder, though? I have never, ever, in three years of playing, managed to get ahead of the curve in having valuable trading material - despite all my attempts to gather together valuable enough things to trade, I only finally started getting Tinsels just before their trade value started plummeting. (So, basically, I gave at least ten times for mine what I could ever get for their offspring.)

 

Now, a perfectly decent, reasonably short lineage (this one, for instance) is essentially worthless. I can post and post on trade threads all I want, but no matter how reasonable my requests, I don't even get a single offer of, say, a couple BSA hatchlings or lower-time eggs, even when I specify that I don't care in the least if they're messy/inbred/whatever. Nada.

 

My tombstone lineages, on the other hand? I went about it carefully. I take care that both the person who owns the parent and anyone who gets the offspring knows, and wants, what I intend to do. I try to create parings that people will enjoy. I take screencaps of the original lineage, or save links to parents/grandparents, so that if anyone wants to know what was there they have only to ask. When I offer in trade threads, I always provide a link to the lineage page AND specify that it's a pseudo-low-gen, not a real one, make sure everyone gets more than fair warning of what it is.

 

And you know what? People like them. I have never once failed to get interesting, fair offers for the offspring of such a line. I never have trouble trading those eggs quickly - where other clean, reasonably short Tinsels I might not even be able to trade as hatchlings. Of COURSE the fake low-gens aren't as valuable as real ones, so of COURSE I don't expect to get what I would for a real one - it doesn't dilute or lessen the trade value of true low-gens, because everyone can recognize those when they see them.

 

So, given all that... why wouldn't I want to work to create such obviously desirable lineages? Especially when it's, apparently, the only remotely valuable thing I've managed to acquire? I mean, seriously, even when I finally manage to get a sitting alt. black with a gorgeous lineage, it's only in the middle of a mini-explosion of them, so no one's willing to give what they were so eagerly offering for them only a few weeks ago. *sigh*

 

So yeah. I get annoyed when people flip out and call it "cheating." It's not cheating. It's good business. It's only sensible in trading to do what you can to make what you have as valuable as possible in order to get what you want.

 

Anyway. In a bad mood anyway at the moment, so probably not a good time to be trying to argue logically. XP

Edited November 16, 2011 by Imbecamiel

[Princess Artemis]

Imbecamiel, I completely see your point. I tried trading a 6th gen Bronze Tinsel hatchie for one CB Gray hatchie once a couple months ago and couldn't get a taker.

 

I don't think it's a shortcut, any more than I think NDs are a short cut.

 

It bugs me when people try to pass them off as something they aren't, I don't think that should be done, but your example is a good reason to do it. People like them. Why not make them?!

[olympe]

Personally, I couldn't care less about doctored lineages. If they look good, that's fine with me. But I'm not going out of my way to collect them.

 

However, working on a lineage, probably for months, and then having one of the ancestors killed and your lineage ruined - that's highly annoying and discouraging.

 

So, why not go a middle route?

 

If you kill a dragon, its ancestry vanishes for all of its descendants on your scroll.

However, in the lineages of its descendants on other scrolls, the lineage stays intact, but with an option for the new owner to "shorten" the lineage at the tombstones.

 

This way, your lineage cannot be affected (too badly) by the actions of another player. Yet, if you choose so, you can make use of the short-cut that has been taken by killing your dragon's ancestor(s).

[RainDear]

When I started this game, I intended to catch 1 of each breed, and breed any others I wanted. It never occurred to me that they would come with "history" in the form of lineages.

 

After joining and reading the forums, my plans changed drastically when I learned how much some players cared about the history of their eggs.

 

If this history had never been part of the game, we wouldn't have this controversy, now. I understand both the feelings of those who want to see the "erased" history and those who want to keep it hidden, but it seems to me that since the history has always been part (and an important part) of the game, that it won't really work to pretend that it isn't there. Thus, I feel that an option to look at the history for those who want it is a reasonable compromise.

[Nightwing915]

It 'forces' us because otherwise the AP would just get more and more clogged. It's one of the way the game balances itself, and it's unlikely to change.

 

If you're only seeing 3 stones whenever you look at the Desert, you're not staying long enough, in my opinion. You have to be patient to play this game

And that's what we need a good glow of newbies for: Picking up all the common crud that clogs the AP. Remember, this is feedback. It's my OPINION. What you think doesn't matter.

[~!~]

And that's what we need a good glow of newbies for: Picking up all the common crud that clogs the AP. Remember, this is feedback. It's my OPINION. What you think doesn't matter.

Well, you did pose an actual suggestion for a solution. We figured you were using your opinions as backup for your idea, and debating with you about it.

[DarkEternity]

I happen to also own a real second gen tinsel (albeit not breeding to well) as well as a doctored one. The thing is, implementing this suddenly may cause hyper inflation. To get a second gen, you reallyneed to have lots of luck or good things to offer like NDs, holiday hatchies, cb metals, hollies etc.

 

On the other hand, once you are able to breed low gens, it's easy to get/iou away more.

 

Thus wealth begets wealth in an unbreakable cycle.

 

Also, another thing is that all the people who won the 31 cb tinsels have lots of people on their lists, so this might well cause hyperinflation and cause a flood of requests/annoyance.

 

Yes it would be nice to monopolise the trading forums, but y'know....

 

[Nightwing915]

Well, you did pose an actual suggestion for a solution. We figured you were using your opinions as backup for your idea, and debating with you about it.

Don't jump to conclusions, you'll only get Ninja'd.

[~!~]

Don't jump to conclusions, you'll only get Ninja'd.

I don't think that means what you think it means...

 

Plus, I wasn't jumping to conclusions. That's the usual pattern of things in this forum. Someone states their opinion, identifies a problem, poses a solution. I'm not sure what you were doing, but if it wasn't that, it wasn't typical of how this section works.

[Nightwing915]

I don't think that means what you think it means...

 

Plus, I wasn't jumping to conclusions. That's the usual pattern of things in this forum. Someone states their opinion, identifies a problem, poses a solution. I'm not sure what you were doing, but if it wasn't that, it wasn't typical of how this section works.

I say Ninjad as an alternative to sniped cause I'm not sure if it breaks the rules. I just wanted to state an opinion and suggest a solution.

[Saloiq]

So, why not go a middle route?

 

If you kill a dragon, its ancestry vanishes for all of its descendants on your scroll.

However, in the lineages of its descendants on other scrolls, the lineage stays intact, but with an option for the new owner to "shorten" the lineage at the tombstones.

 

This way, your lineage cannot be affected (too badly) by the actions of another player. Yet, if you choose so, you can make use of the short-cut that has been taken by killing your dragon's ancestor(s).

I think this is a great solution. (: A few questions about the details:

-Would this be a one time decision? I think it should be.

-Would there be a time limit on deciding? I don't think so, but I can see reasons for and against a time limit. :s

-Would you get a notification when a dragon in one of your lineages is killed? I don't think there needs to be one, as you'd see the tombstone as soon as you bred your dragons.

[ParticleSoup]

I say Ninjad as an alternative to sniped cause I'm not sure if it breaks the rules. I just wanted to state an opinion and suggest a solution.

in this section of the forum, the general procedure here is when someone states a suggestion, people either voice their agreements or disagreements, and why they think it would or wouldn't work. don't expect to post here without getting some form of response

 

 

'Ninja'd' or 'd means someone posted the same thing you did before you were able to submit your post. though i'm not sure what you mean by 'sniped', as there is not much you can do about it if someone simply disagrees with you

Edited November 17, 2011 by ParticleSoup

[Fuzzbucket]

I say Ninjad as an alternative to sniped cause I'm not sure if it breaks the rules. I just wanted to state an opinion and suggest a solution.

I didn't quite see the solution suggested ?

[Nightwing915]

Basically, what I meant was, jumping to conclusions is bad. But let's just end that whole thing.

 

I got another thing.

 

I honestly do *NOT* get egg/hatchling sickness. I see it as a pointless hinderance that makes you waste the egg/hatchling's time.

[Fuzzbucket]

Basically, what I meant was, jumping to conclusions is bad. But let's just end that whole thing.

 

I got another thing.

 

I honestly do *NOT* get egg/hatchling sickness. I see it as a pointless hinderance that makes you waste the egg/hatchling's time.

OK ! consider it ended !

 

How do you mean, though ? Are you saying everything should just grow up automatically with no effort after the catching ? So - what would be the point of views and so on - and then people who just can't REALLY be bothered would just grab things and go away for a week. Part of the point of this game is looking after your dragons ! Because if nothing gets sick, you won't need views...

 

It takes no longer for a dragon to hatch and then grow up, if it gets sick. It is only that the owner actually needs to keep an eye on it.

[DragonNighthowler]

I haven't read the whole thread. Don't have time to go through 20+ pages right now, but I promise I will get to it later.

 

Anyways, the cave is marvelous. The biomes, trading, it was an awesome idea. Now I don't have to sit endlessly in the Cave to get something as ridiculously common as a Terrae (which I mass collect).

 

HOWEVER; I do find annoying that, while I'm hunting, I see the very same three eggs endlessly blocking the biomes.

Sure, I know maybe in 20 minutes someone will get bored, or whatever, and pick that bugging stone, but most of the times, in most biomes, you sit there for like 5 minutes without any shift.

In the end, I get bored and go somewhere else. I'm not sure how that can be fixed tho.

 

I know, in the end, it is a game of patience, but it would be nice to see a more dynamic hunting system.

[Fuzzbucket]

I haven't read the whole thread. Don't have time to go through 20+ pages right now, but I promise I will get to it later.

 

Anyways, the cave is marvelous. The biomes, trading, it was an awesome idea. Now I don't have to sit endlessly in the Cave to get something as ridiculously common as a Terrae (which I mass collect).

 

HOWEVER; I do find annoying that, while I'm hunting, I see the very same three eggs endlessly blocking the biomes.

Sure, I know maybe in 20 minutes someone will get bored, or whatever, and pick that bugging stone, but most of the times, in most biomes, you sit there for like 5 minutes without any shift.

In the end, I get bored and go somewhere else. I'm not sure how that can be fixed tho.

 

I know, in the end, it is a game of patience, but it would be nice to see a more dynamic hunting system.

It;'s better than the same three eggs blocking one cave

[~!~]

I honestly do *NOT* get egg/hatchling sickness. I see it as a pointless hinderance that makes you waste the egg/hatchling's time.

The egg gets sick when it gets too many views too quickly. That's to make it so that dragcave doesn't get too many calls for images, I think, because that can be bad for the site (same reason you have to download incubator images and reupload them somewhere else). I don't know whether it's obsolete or not anymore, but a lot of people who play consider it "part of the challenge," so even if it's not needed anymore I don't think TJ would get rid of it.

[Fuzzbucket]

The egg gets sick when it gets too many views too quickly. That's to make it so that dragcave doesn't get too many calls for images, I think, because that can be bad for the site (same reason you have to download incubator images and reupload them somewhere else). I don't know whether it's obsolete or not anymore, but a lot of people who play consider it "part of the challenge," so even if it's not needed anymore I don't think TJ would get rid of it.

Or when it hasn't enough. It can also get sick from starvation, no ? Or just DIE suddenly - would that be better ? And if sickness went, we wouldn't need to BOTHER any more...

[~!~]

Or when it hasn't enough. It can also get sick from starvation, no ? Or just DIE suddenly - would that be better ? And if sickness went, we wouldn't need to BOTHER any more...

I think they just die if they don't have enough views. I don't think they show a sickness message. (It would be kind of silly if you couldn't tell whether you needed to fog the egg or post it more places.) Anyway, I'd ask a ND experimenter about that.

[ParticleSoup]

eggs can only get sick if they get too many views too quickly. there's no sickness if they don't get any views at all.. i often have eggs go from 7 to 0 days with 0/0/0 stats all the way until they're ready for my experiments :3

[CatCreature]

HOWEVER; I do find annoying that, while I'm hunting, I see the very same three eggs endlessly blocking the biomes.

Sure, I know maybe in 20 minutes someone will get bored, or whatever, and pick that bugging stone, but most of the times, in most biomes, you sit there for like 5 minutes without any shift.

In the end, I get bored and go somewhere else. I'm not sure how that can be fixed tho.

 

I know, in the end, it is a game of patience, but it would be nice to see a more dynamic hunting system.

When I keep staring at the same bugging stones I can end up grabbing those stones, raise them and then trade them. It's nice to get shinies for some time and patience.

[Fuzzbucket]

eggs can only get sick if they get too many views too quickly. there's no sickness if they don't get any views at all.. i often have eggs go from 7 to 0 days with 0/0/0 stats all the way until they're ready for my experiments :3

Oh true, true. I did that just the other day. Of couree - they failed to turn - but you win some, you lose some.

 

Fair cop though - I stand corrected.

[Nightwing915]

About the sickness thing, I was just a little worried, cause I have a Gold Tinsel egg and it got sick after 139 views last night, and I REALLY want to shove it in another person's face. The eggI got my Geode from got sick at first after 79. I just think it's a little...ridiculous.