Cave Feedback

[Saloiq]

Conversely, what do people think about me making the site store the lost linage information so that the lineage can continue past the tombstones, preventing people from "doctoring" lineages. To me, it seems disingenuous to try to misrepresent dragons, so...

I wouldn't like this at all. It's near impossible to get actual 2nd gen Tinsels, so doctored lineages are the only way to go if you want to make a neat, clean lineage.

[Banuk]

Conversely, what do people think about me making the site store the lost linage information so that the lineage can continue past the tombstones, preventing people from "doctoring" lineages. To me, it seems disingenuous to try to misrepresent dragons, so...

I wouldn't mind seeing something like that. If people are so against doctoring lineages without killing dragons, then why should doctoring lineages by killing dragons also not be acceptable?

 

If you want a nice lineage, to quote a post above me, "Go and hunt up some nice REAL caveborns to breed."

 

I once suggested a sort of lineage doctoring idea, but it was shot down at once on the grounds that, "OMGWTFBBQ THATS CHEATING."...but I fail to see how passing off an unknown-lineaged, doctored dragon as a clean line isn't considered cheating too, tombstones notwithstanding. There's currently no way to know if that egg someone is representing as a doctored 2nd gen isn't really an inbred, messy 24th gen.

 

And as for tinsels...yeah, caveborn tinsels aren't available any more. But neither are other caveborn holiday dragons. Why TJ's suggestion should be rejected because of tinsels is just beyond me.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Derranged

[Saloiq]

There's currently no way to know if that egg someone is representing as a doctored 2nd gen isn't really an inbred, messy 24th gen.

 

And as for tinsels...yeah, caveborn tinsels aren't available any more. But neither are other caveborn holiday dragons. Why TJ's suggestion should be rejected because of tinsels is just beyond me.

But why does it matter what a dragon looked like before its lineage was doctored if it doesn't look that way now?

 

There are plenty of CB Holidays around (besides Hollies) that you can request 2nd gens from if you want to start a lineage. Not so for Tinsels. You can also apply this to Golds/Silvers.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Saloiq

[Fuzzbucket]

Conversely, what do people think about me making the site store the lost linage information so that the lineage can continue past the tombstones, preventing people from "doctoring" lineages. To me, it seems disingenuous to try to misrepresent dragons, so...

I like the idea of being able to SEE it - but I can see Saloiq's point. Maybe if it were accessible to view it when you click on the tombstones, but not when you just did a routine lineage VIEW ?

 

But let's face it -a doctored lineage is a doctored lineage, Saloiq.

 

And it would be good to know when you have a dorkface or a Thuwed that was cut off without having to go to Extreme Lengths. Also to make sure you weren't accidentally inbreeding your tinsel... That CAN come as a nasty shock - I recently prepared to breed a pair, one with tombstones in there and another with a rather "complicated" lineage - and to my horror, found that off to the side somewhere they had a common ancestor.

[Saloiq]

I like the idea of being able to SEE it - but I can see Saloiq's point. Maybe if it were accessible to view  it when you click on the tombstones, but not when you just did a routine lineage VIEW ?

 

But let's face it -a doctored lineage is a doctored lineage, Saloiq.

 

And it would be good to know when you have a dorkface or a Thuwed that was cut off without having to go to Extreme Lengths. Also to make sure you weren't accidentally inbreeding your tinsel... That CAN come as a nasty shock - I recently prepared to breed a pair, one with tombstones in there and another with a rather "complicated" lineage - and to my horror, found that off to the side somewhere they had a common ancestor.

I guess I wouldn't mind only being able to access the lineage if you clicked on the tombstone.

 

Well, yes, a doctored lineage is a doctored lineage. Sorry, but I don't get your point. ^^;

 

However, I don't want the ancestors of dead dragons to determine whether or not something is inbred. Some people kill their dragons just so they don't look inbred anymore, and it totally defeats the purpose if when you put that dragon into an inbred checker, it shows up as inbred anyway. But I suppose that's just a worry about the mentality of DC-people. If they don't see inbreeding as inbreeding if it can only be found when checking tombstones, then all's good.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Saloiq

[Banuk]

Some people kill their dragons just so they're not inbred anymore...

An inbred dragon is still inbred, even if you can't see it, lol. If something is inbred, it doesn't stop being inbred just because its ancestors are dead.

 

I don't get the mentality of it either.

[Obscure_Trash]

I've actually always kinda wondered why it wasn't set up so the lineages didn't disappear. >.>

[Saloiq]

An inbred dragon is still inbred, even if you can't see it, lol. If something is inbred, it doesn't stop being inbred just because its ancestors are dead.

 

I don't get the mentality of it either.

It doesn't stop being inbred, but it stops looking inbred. Sorry, I worded that badly.

 

Also, do you mean my mentality or the mentality I mentioned in my previous post? ^^

Edited November 13, 2011 by Saloiq

[codyne]

Conversely, what do people think about me making the site store the lost linage information so that the lineage can continue past the tombstones, preventing people from "doctoring" lineages. To me, it seems disingenuous to try to misrepresent dragons, so...

I wouldn't mind that. I don't care for doctored lineages, personally, and it would be nice to know that carefully planned lineages couldn't be destroyed by someone killing off one of the ancestors.

 

As for tinsels, meh. Just another reason why I thought the tree decorating contest was a bad idea -- only 31 CBs in the cave means very few people can have pretty low-gen tinsels, so people have to resort to killing to get the lineages they want.

[Fuzzbucket]

An inbred dragon is still inbred, even if you can't see it, lol. If something is inbred, it doesn't stop being inbred just because its ancestors are dead.

 

I don't get the mentality of it either.

No I know. But the thing is that some of the ancestors of the DEAD one kind of snuck in from sideways when the whole lineages were put together. I couldn't see them from the lineage page with it stopping at the tombstones - but allure picked them up somehow.

 

Saloiq - what I meant was in response to your post:

 

It's near impossible to get actual 2nd gen Tinsels, so doctored lineages are the only way to go if you want to make a neat, clean lineage.

It isn't clean, that was all I meant. Neat yes, but... As I think has been shown to be what you meant anyway so....

[Saloiq]

No I know. But the thing is that some of the ancestors of the DEAD one kind of snuck in from sideways when the whole lineages were put together. I couldn't see them from the lineage page with it stopping at the tombstones - but allure picked them up somehow.

 

Saloiq - what I meant was in response to your post:

 

 

It isn't clean, that was all I meant. Neat yes, but... As I think has been shown to be what you meant anyway so....

Hm, are you sure it wasn't a zombie? I just checked some dragons that I know were inbred before their lines were doctored, and they showed up as non-inbred in AoND's checker.

 

Oh, I meant clean as in tidy, not as in not-inbred. Oops. ;

[Fuzzbucket]

Hm, are you sure it wasn't a zombie? I just checked some dragons that I know were inbred before their lines were doctored, and they showed up as non-inbred in AoND's checker.

 

Oh, I meant clean as in tidy, not as in not-inbred. Oops. ;

I haz no zombie *weeps piteously*

 

And they can't breed anyway

[CatCreature]

I haz no zombie *weeps piteously*

 

And they can't breed anyway

You need to kill more dragons.

 

Zombies may have offspring before being killed, that's how they end up in lineages.

 

(And I spellt it 'zombiez' lol)

 

I usually don't have any issues with tombstones in lineages or killed dragons to make shorter gen. But when someone kills their even-gen and ruin several lineages I tend to get a little nervous.

Edited November 13, 2011 by CatCreature

[Fuzzbucket]

You need to kill more dragons.

 

Zombies may have offspring before being killed, that's how they end up in lineages.

 

(And I spellt it 'zombiez' lol)

 

I usually don't have any issues with tombstones in lineages or killed dragons to make shorter gen. But when someone kills their even-gen and ruin several lineages I tend to get a little nervous.

ExYOOOOSE me - I killed five adults and let 8 hatchies die in readiness for Da Day. Every last one of the bloody thing crumbled to dust on Oct 31st....

 

I TRIED. I REALLY REALLY TRIED !

 

But I love my cut off gold tinsel lots and lots. Also its seasonal offspring.

[kerrikins]

Not sure whether to make a new thread or not...

 

As all of us who have tried to construct certain lineages probably know, when building a lineage the male will show on top and the female on the bottom.

 

My suggestion is that for the view page for eggs, the listing be the same. Currently the female shows first, followed by the male. Now, this is very small, admittedly, but slightly annoying if people are trying to have lyrics or phrases or even corresponding words in the parents names... For example, a poem in a lineage would be backwards in the parents, when looking at the view page.

 

Also, the perfectionist in me thinks that the two pages should match, for organization's sake.

[CatCreature]

ExYOOOOSE me - I killed five adults and let 8 hatchies die in readiness for Da Day. Every last one of the bloody thing crumbled to dust on Oct 31st....

 

I TRIED. I REALLY REALLY TRIED !

You're exyoooosed. I killed five adults and had 37 hatchies running out of time. Only got 11 new zombies for the year.

[Obscure_Trash]

Not sure whether to make a new thread or not...

 

As all of us who have tried to construct certain lineages probably know, when building a lineage the male will show on top and the female on the bottom.

 

My suggestion is that for the view page for eggs, the listing be the same. Currently the female shows first, followed by the male. Now, this is very small, admittedly, but slightly annoying if people are trying to have lyrics or phrases or even corresponding words in the parents names... For example, a poem in a lineage would be backwards in the parents, when looking at the view page.

 

Also, the perfectionist in me thinks that the two pages should match, for organization's sake.

The view page has stayed the old way because of naming schemes that people did. Having the names in a different order makes the lineage page show traditionally correct while the view page shows the old way for those who created schemes from that. I know we have rename, but some people have names meant for their gal dragons and some meant for their guy dragons, so I support the pages staying in a different order. :3

 

If any of that made sense. x3

[kerrikins]

Ohhh, so it's supporting both. Ok That makes sense, even if it makes me twitchy. The best of both worlds, I suppose. Thanks

[Cinnamin Draconna]

Conversely, what do people think about me making the site store the lost linage information so that the lineage can continue past the tombstones, preventing people from "doctoring" lineages. To me, it seems disingenuous to try to misrepresent dragons, so...

Doctored or Fake lineages offend me, regardless of if they are 'cleaning up' a lineage or not. It may 'look' clean, but it really isn't and since some folk INTENTIONALLY do it to get better trades, I don't think it should be allowed.

 

Lineages with actual Zombies in them, still keep their lineages intact. But intentional kills to 'clean up' a lineage, destroy the lineages of others and that means you are affecting how I play the game... and THAT IS NOT FAIR!!!!!

 

I support TJ's solution 100%!!!!!

[~!~]

Doctored or Fake lineages offend me, regardless of if they are 'cleaning up' a lineage or not. It may 'look' clean, but it really isn't and since some folk INTENTIONALLY do it to get better trades, I don't think it should be allowed.

Yeah well, inbred lineages offend people too. Other people have no problem with them, and some people collect them specifically because they're inbred. There's people out there who prefer tombstone lineage to regular ones.

[Imbecamiel]

Doctored or Fake lineages offend me, regardless of if they are 'cleaning up' a lineage or not. It may 'look' clean, but it really isn't and since some folk INTENTIONALLY do it to get better trades, I don't think it should be allowed.

 

Lineages with actual Zombies in them, still keep their lineages intact. But intentional kills to 'clean up' a lineage, destroy the lineages of others and that means you are affecting how I play the game... and THAT IS NOT FAIR!!!!!

 

I support TJ's solution 100%!!!!!

I understand that, and you do have the right to dislike those lineages. And I do understand (from personal experience) and sympathize with the way that such killing can spoil lineages at times.

 

However, I have the equal right to like the way those lineages can look when done for an intentional effect. Just as some can like the way intentionally inbred lineages can turn out. I happen to think that it is not fair to insist unilaterally that everyone else should be stopped from doing something purely because you don't like it.

 

If people are doing it to get better trades... that's because enough people like it to consider it valuable, making it worth while. How is that not fair? Yes, I agree, it can be very mean to kill a dragon with offspring that's not on your scroll, thus potentially ruining a lineage for someone else, but I don't think that's necessarily reason enough to call for it to be disallowed outright.

 

I mean... I may, personally, not like inbred dragons. But if enough people DID like it that it was possible to create higher trade value by inbreeding your dragons... why should people NOT do so, to maximize what they can potentially get from a trade? It's somewhat different, in that you can't affect someone else's dragon after the fact through inbreeding, like you can with killing, but... There are clearly enough people who do enjoy doctored lineages that I think it's very unfair to just say that they should all be shut down because others don't like them.

[Nine]

I don't have a problem with "doctored" lineages since I find them a part of the game just like lineages that stretch into the 100 gens. If people want to use them to make trading more lucrative, slightly devious but I guess it's not any different than people purposely messily inbreeding to make a dragon less desirable. It doesn't impact how I play so I don't mind what others do =B

Edited November 14, 2011 by Nine

[~!~]

I suppose the difference between doctoring lineages and anything else is that doctoring lineages is the only thing that can affect dragons you don't own.

[Nine]

That is true... I guess I should stay out of topics about breeding since I know very little about it =P

 

If an option to see the lineages of dead parent dragons is added, I hope it also applies for those with extensive lineages that go beyond the page. I think there was a recent thread about that somewhere around here.

[Confused Cat]

Conversely, what do people think about me making the site store the lost linage information so that the lineage can continue past the tombstones, preventing people from "doctoring" lineages. To me, it seems disingenuous to try to misrepresent dragons, so...

It's really sad when a long lineage is ruined when suddenly someone kills one of the dragons in it, but the same would be true when - with the way it currently works - people make a lineage with tombstones and then suddenly the messy inbred ancestors of a tombstone appear on the lineage page.

 

I'm planning a tombstone lineage for the first time (something like this, although I don't know yet if I'll really be able to kill a dragon), and I'd be sad if I finished the lineage and then it was "broken" by reappearing ancestors.

 

I'd suggest to show the ancestors only after clicking a tombstone (so the "doctored" lineage page is not affected), but this doesn't solve the problem where "undoctored" lineages are ruined by killing dragons.

There is no solution for both cases, I assume...

 

The only thing I don't see as a problem at all is the "misrepresenting" part. Whenever a dragon has tombstones in its lineage, I know the deceased dragons may have been the messiest inbred 47th gens, and it's my own decision whether this bothers me or not.