Ascension

[Fiona]

What was talked about in the thread was an increasing success rate, or a decreasing fail rate. I figured the way the poll option put it was an "oops."

[Fuzzbucket]

What was talked about in the thread was an increasing success rate, or a decreasing fail rate. I figured the way the poll option put it was an "oops."

Yes - so did I, in the end - but someone coming new to the thread will see the poll and

[Obscure_Trash]

I had a reason for putting it as an increasing rate when I did it. Couldn't tell you why that was now. I'll change it. x3

[Kirbyburn]

So about where does this thread stand now?

[libby2999]

I can not stress how much I say no. Not only will it take hundreds of hours to make all new sprits for the exsitsing dragpns but all the conmpleated, but not live dragons, will need to add new sprits and that could take forever. It feels to me that TJ would not live long enough to see the day were all asended sprits were made. Anyways, I feel that dragons, being nearly mortal, shouldnt even age. Thats just me but I can see that many people dislike it as well.

[Shanthaia]

I can not stress how much I say no. Not only will it take hundreds of hours to make all new sprits for the exsitsing dragpns but all the conmpleated, but not live dragons, will need to add new sprits and that could take forever. It feels to me that TJ would not live long enough to see the day were all asended sprits were made. Anyways, I feel that dragons, being nearly mortal, shouldnt even age. Thats just me but I can see that many people dislike it as well.

le sigh? - the sprites are ALREADY made - they just are no longer public. In addition it is not planned for every dragon breed. It is up to the artis if he/she feels his/her dragon could ascend or not. Further ascending is more reaching teh dragons full potential, not so much aging, thus the sprites are super awesome IMHO

[Kirbyburn]

I can not stress how much I say no. Not only will it take hundreds of hours to make all new sprits for the exsitsing dragpns but all the conmpleated, but not live dragons, will need to add new sprits and that could take forever. It feels to me that TJ would not live long enough to see the day were all asended sprits were made. Anyways, I feel that dragons, being nearly mortal, shouldnt even age. Thats just me but I can see that many people dislike it as well.

If the artist is okay with it, we can also use someone elses adult dragon if it matches close enough to the other breed.

 

But thats just my idea.

[HeatherMarie]

.... Maybe there should be a note in the OP about the spriters already having ideas/sprites/etc for this? I've seen multiple posts in this thread about "too much work for the spriters", which obviously doesn't hold water, but how would they know that without reading all 33 pages?

[Kirbyburn]

Im pretty sure I dont have rights to the original post, so I guess someone should contact Sock.

[skinst]

I can not stress how much I say no. Not only will it take hundreds of hours to make all new sprits for the exsitsing dragpns but all the conmpleated, but not live dragons, will need to add new sprits and that could take forever. It feels to me that TJ would not live long enough to see the day were all asended sprits were made. Anyways, I feel that dragons, being nearly mortal, shouldnt even age. Thats just me but I can see that many people dislike it as well.

Shouldn't that kinda be up to the spriters themselves? ^^; I like the Ascended project and when the time comes, I'll be working with Sif on the Ascended Nebulas. :3

 

Also, in many dragon legends it's been shown that Dragons age, if slowly, and become very large and powerful as they mature. Ascension would do the same.

[Arwen17]

I don't like the idea of a failure rate at all. I don't need another frustrating BSA like summoning. I'd also prefer not to have a cool-down, but it wouldn't upset me if it did. As long as there's isn't a chance of failure, cool-downs aren't a big deal.

 

I've always wanted ascension to be limited by amount of dragons on the scroll. I see the ascended dragons as leaders of their clan or breed so not every one of them should be able to ascend.

A ratio of normal vs ascended in a breed depending on how many dragons you possess of that breed.

Example: Maybe something like the potential for one ascended dragon for every six normal dragons you have on your scroll.

 

Ascended is guaranteed to work, but you have to have the proper amount of dragons for the option to appear on them. (as well as the age requirement of the dragon you want to ascend aka 6 months seems to be the most popular).

 

 

[KageSora]

I don't like the idea of a failure rate at all. I don't need another frustrating BSA like summoning. I'd also prefer not to have a cool-down, but it wouldn't upset me if it did. As long as there's isn't a chance of failure, cool-downs aren't a big deal.

 

I've always wanted ascension to be limited by amount of dragons on the scroll. I see the ascended dragons as leaders of their clan or breed so not every one of them should be able to ascend.

A ratio of normal vs ascended in a breed depending on how many dragons you possess of that breed.

Example: Maybe something like the potential for one ascended dragon for every six normal dragons you have on your scroll.

 

Ascended is guaranteed to work, but you have to have the proper amount of dragons for the option to appear on them. (as well as the age requirement of the dragon you want to ascend aka 6 months seems to be the most popular).

Well, if a fail-rate was implemented, everybody here who has argued for it agrees that it would have to be a very low rate--nothing like the, what, 10% chance or working that Summon has? I think people were saying like an 85% chance for it to work or something, if a fail rate was in place. I don't see the problem with a fail rate, as long as it's pretty small.

 

 

As for limiting it by number of dragons on your scroll.. I'm against that. If you only want to ascend a certain number of dragons, go ahead, but why should somebody else who wants to have nothing but ascendeds be kept from having them? It's kinda like imposing your ideas on everybody--I personally see them simply as dragons who have lived and learned enough to reach their full potential. That means every single dragon has the chance to ascend, and it's only limited by if they want to try to reach that potential--aka, if you, the player, decided you want to ascend them or not.

[Arwen17]

Well, if a fail-rate was implemented, everybody here who has argued for it agrees that it would have to be a very low rate--nothing like the, what, 10% chance or working that Summon has?  I think people were saying like an 85% chance for it to work or something, if a fail rate was in place.  I don't see the problem with a fail rate, as long as it's pretty small.

 

 

As for limiting it by number of dragons on your scroll..  I'm against that.  If you only want to ascend a certain number of dragons, go ahead, but why should somebody else who wants to have nothing but ascendeds be kept from having them?  It's kinda like imposing your ideas on everybody--I personally see them simply as dragons who have lived and learned enough to reach their full potential.  That means every single dragon has the chance to ascend, and it's only limited by if they want to try to reach that potential--aka, if you, the player, decided you want to ascend them or not.

The reason I want to limit amount of ascended dragons on scroll is because I see ascended dragons as special like summoning. You shouldn't be able to make an army of them. They're a BSA, not a guaranteed stage of dragon like eggs, hatchies. If TJ chooses to go this route though and make ascended available to every single dragon then that's fine.

 

Ugh failure, it leaves a foul taste in the mouth after every summon. But yes, if the failure rate was extremely low it wouldn't be too bad.

 

Limiting ascension by age and by amount of dragons insures the dragon is old and the scroll is old. It takes time to acquire age and amount and makes it more special when you get there. But that's all it takes. You know you aren't going to fail, you just have to be patient.

 

Well either way, at least you'll know you'll get there eventually unlike summoning.

Edited June 5, 2011 by Arwen17

[KageSora]

The reason I want to limit amount of ascended dragons on scroll is because I see ascended dragons as special like summoning. You shouldn't be able to make an army of them. They're a BSA, not a guaranteed stage of dragon like eggs, hatchies. If TJ chooses to go this route though and make ascended available to every single dragon then that's fine.

 

Ugh failure, it leaves a foul taste in the mouth after every summon. But yes, if the failure rate was extremely low it wouldn't be too bad.

 

Limiting ascension by age and by amount of dragons insures the dragon is old and the scroll is old. It takes time to acquire age and amount and makes it more special when you get there. But that's all it takes. You know you aren't going to fail, you just have to be patient.

 

Well either way, at least you'll know you'll get there eventually unlike summoning.

I get what you're saying, but some people see Ascension as the next stage in a dragon's life after being an adult.

 

And some of us see it as a next stage reached by working for it--it's true that everybody gets old and not everybody gets to be a 'wise elder' type, but everybody has the potential to become a 'wise elder' type if they work towards it. That's why I see Ascension a something that should be limited by the player only--if you want to make it really special, that's fine, and if you want a huge collection of ascended sprites, that's fine, too. The idea of a failure rate would tie in to that idea of not everybody succeeding first try, too.

[Jimbobman903]

i think that the ascnded dragons should either not be able to breed or be harder to breed.

think about it, in humans (i have no clue about other animals)when you reach a certain ag you are unlikely to be able to have kids, see what im getting at?

it would make sense, no?

also, i dont think cooldowns or anything should happen, cos it's not a bsa, it's a natural part of life.

and also also, i could have sworn that the poll said a decreasing sucess rate was an option, but to me that is just imbecilic.

[KageSora]

i think that the ascnded dragons should either not be able to breed or be harder to breed.

think about it, in humans (i have no clue about other animals)when you reach a certain ag you are unlikely to be able to have kids, see what im getting at?

it would make sense, no?

also, i dont think cooldowns or anything should happen, cos it's not a bsa, it's a natural part of life.

and also also, i could have sworn that the poll said a decreasing sucess rate was an option, but to me that is just imbecilic.

The breeding thing has been addressed--not every animal is like humans, you know. I believe somebody mentioned before something about reptiles and birds being able to produce offspring until they no longer have the energy to do so, they don't become less fertile with age. And ascension is not the dragon becoming really old--it's the dragon reaching it's full potential, which is different. The dragon would be at it's prime, in the peak of it's physical/mental/magical health, at it's strongest--thus it would actually make more sense if they were more likely to breed rather than less.

 

And the thing is, this would function as an action rather than a BSA, and things like freezing and killing have cooldowns. Besides, this will not happen automatically--it's something you have to do yourself. Trust me, people would raise hell if this was automatic. :| And the poll said either INCREASING success rate or decreasing FAIL rate, IIRC, not that it would have a decreasing success rate...

Edited June 5, 2011 by KageSora

[AlternateMew]

From someone who hasn't taken the poll and can still see it:

 

Should there be a failure rate?

No.

Yes, as a flat rate.

Yes, as a decreasing rate.

Other.

[HeatherMarie]

According to the poll, no-failure-rate is winning. I'm honestly okay with it either way.

 

I definitely am against a limitation on Ascendeds vs regulars. So far, the overall concept of Ascension is more or less "an old dragon who can "ascend" and change their looks". (I'm simplifying, here). It's not about a "leader" dragon and only that "leader" dragon can Ascend. That's not what this is. There was a discussion awhile back in this thread about the possibility of certain individual dragons just not being capable of Ascending, but that was pretty much shot down.

 

There will be limits. Obviously. Cooldowns and per-week or per-trophy or whatever limits. But there is no logical reason to have a limit like "only one Ascended per 6 regulars of that breed", just because that's how one person wants to play.

[Kirbyburn]

So for now im pretty sure no failure will be the choice. In my opinion, failure just stalls the eventually BSA from being used uneccasary.

 

So should we begin to discuss other issues now or stick with the failure rate?

[KageSora]

Personally, I think we can move on. People have cast their vote for the issue of failure rate, so if TJ decides to implement this he has an idea of what people want to consider when making his decision.

[Nogard145]

I only scanned through the entire thread, so if this was already brought up I apologize. Let me know and I will delete this post.

 

I really like this idea! I think it would be a fun feature. The thing i want to bring up is the linage issue. Why don't the images on lineages just not change into ascension form? This seems like something for the owner of the scroll anyways, so if their dragon's ascension forms aren't shown off of their scrolls I wouldn't think that it would make much of a difference.

[Obscure_Trash]

(New poll. :3 )

[funky3000]

Maybe ascended chickens could become Basilisks. I think Basilisks are a monster in ancient myth where a dragon was turned into a chicken.

 

Aging could remove a spell, if it has one. I see no other reason why a chicken egg would be in a dragon's cave.

 

Somebody could have come along and turned an egg into a chicken egg, but I can't really see anybody (at least not somebody with an IQ over 10) putting a chicken egg into a dragon's cave. And chickens would most likely try to stay away from dragons.

[KageSora]

Maybe ascended chickens could become Basilisks. I think Basilisks are a monster in ancient myth where a dragon was turned into a chicken.

 

Aging could remove a spell, if it has one. I see no other reason why a chicken egg would be in a dragon's cave.

 

Somebody could have come along and turned an egg into a chicken egg, but I can't really see anybody (at least not somebody with an IQ over 10) putting a chicken egg into a dragon's cave. And chickens would most likely try to stay away from dragons.

Chickens are just plain chickens--why would they get to ascend? Ascension isn't just "getting older" it's reaching the peak of potential--for the dragons, it would be a magical thing. Regular chickens don't have something like that, because they're not magical.

 

The chicken eggs in the cave are in there as a joke, they're not dragon eggs that have had a spell put on them to become chicken eggs. It's like the dinos--they're not dragons either, they're in there for a joke.

 

Besides, there's already a Basilisk dragon on the in-progress list...

 

 

I only scanned through the entire thread, so if this was already brought up I apologize. Let me know and I will delete this post.

 

I really like this idea! I think it would be a fun feature. The thing i want to bring up is the linage issue. Why don't the images on lineages just not change into ascension form? This seems like something for the owner of the scroll anyways, so if their dragon's ascension forms aren't shown off of their scrolls I wouldn't think that it would make much of a difference.

But what if people want to have a lineage of ascended dragons, assuming they're still able to breed? That would mean nobody could have an ascended lineage. :< I personally think it would be really cool to have a lineage of dragons alternating between ascended and not--that could look really, really cool!

 

 

 

ETA: As for the current poll... I think it would make sense if they had a boost to BSAs and breeding. It doesn't have to be a big boost--maybe a 10% boost for breeding, and BSA's could take a day or two less to cooldown? That way they get a bonus for being stronger, but it's not enough to make it really a huge advantage for people who have them over people who don't.

 

But I don't mind if they don't get a boost--just as long as they retain their ability to breed and use BSA's, I'm okay with anything other than a decrease in ability!

Edited June 12, 2011 by KageSora

[Fengari]

I'm torn on this one... So I voted don't know/can't decide

 

From the flavor point of view it would make sense, certainly if 'ascension' is seen as being at the peak of their potential.

 

But from gameplay point of view I would prefer for them not to have any perks besides a nice sprite, because that would influence people's decisions about whether to ascend or not. I've always thought I would only descend those dragons that mean something special to me (like the first of their breed I caught, or the first CB, or the end result of a specific lineage, the starting pair of a specific lineage, ...)

Most of my BSA dragons are not that special to me, so wouldn't normally get ascended, but if there was a boost to their BSA I would be tempted to ascend them anyway, which would mean I had to ascend even more dragons because they are more important to me that the BSA dragons. I'd end up with a lot more ascended dragons than I would feel is right (sounds a bit crazy maybe but I hope you get what I mean).

So I think I would only like this if the boost was minimal, almost negligible. And then, if it is negligible, why go through the trouble of coding it?

 

I wouldn't mind a boost to breeding, though.