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[perzephone]

As it stands, you only get that atmosphere if you make a mistake.

It's that circular reasoning thing:

 

1) The site feels unwelcoming to new people.

 

2) You only get the unwelcoming atmosphere if you make a mistake (supposedly).

 

3) You didn't know you were making the mistake before you made it.

 

4) If you had read the rules, FAQs and stickies, you would have known what constituted a mistake.

 

5) Oh, sorry, you didn't read the rules, FAQs & stickies because you didn't have to.

 

6) Return to #1, repeat ad nauseum.

[Nectaris]

It's that circular reasoning thing:

 

1) The site feels unwelcoming to new people.

 

2) You only get the unwelcoming atmosphere if you make a mistake (supposedly).

 

3) You didn't know you were making the mistake before you made it.

 

4) If you had read the rules, FAQs and stickies, you would have known what constituted a mistake.

 

5) Oh, sorry, you didn't read the rules, FAQs & stickies because you didn't have to.

 

6) Return to #1, repeat ad nauseum.

A quiz does nothing other than insure that people read the rules, which while it might keep newbies from breaking the rules, does not keep them from getting jumped on for asking other questions. THAT is my point, that it adds tension to those who read the rules on their own and really adds nothing in return.

 

Regardless of reason, every site I have seen that has such a quiz is a horrible place to be. I do not want that added here.

[Obscure_Trash]

After taking the time to read the responses again and to actually take the time to think about it, it's not that copy'pasta greetings are unfriendly. Being apart of communities and welcoming people that come in, especially if they don't give a little blurb about themselves, it's hard to come up a personalized greeting for everyone. It's more that everyone is linking the same thing. It's great that members' are offering their services in PM, but it's discouraging when they don't answer the questions in the first post.

And that's nothing against the people posting in the topic, because at least they are taking the time to post in the thread. That's more against those of us who don't take a little time to go in, see those questions, and either answer them in the thread or PM the person with the answer. ;3

 

Also, I just don't see how making people go through a huge block of text and then quiz is going to make this forum seem more welcoming. I certainly would have been off put by the vibe from the forum and would not have joined. I'd say this forum would be missing a significant amount of the users' we have now if we did this.

 

As is, we already have the giant box of links. I link to at least four other places in the FAQ, which is linked in the box. All the stuff we have now? When I joined - not even close to the same amount of stuff. Without joining the forums, I still managed to find out everything I needed to know. Shoving all this information in people's faces isn't going to help, IMHO.

 

I have however seen some other really good suggestions here, which I outlined for the mods elsewhere. Unfortunately, TJ was still not persuaded on the chat section, as that's what IRC was for, but some other things may be put into place.

 

Going to re-post this, because I don't see that anyone gave me an opinion on it: I got a really wonderful PM about doing a sticky in help about "Helpful Hints to Posting in the Help Section". It would discourage things like piling up (which I hate to warn for because I like how willing people are to help in the help section - but I could start doing verbal warns if people really find this off putting?) and not answering if you don't want to or are angry or whatnot. What do people think of this? :3

[TPishek]

Unfortunately, TJ was still not persuaded on the chat section, as that's what IRC was for, but some other things may be put into place.

As a site that tends to cater to a younger audience, it would be good to keep in mind that many parents do not allow their kids to be in IRC chatrooms of any sort, between the media-publicized cases of cyber-bullying etc, and simply the fact that chatrooms are not particularly secure in terms of viruses. >> I know there are a fair number of people like that on DC, because I've needed to drop gifts via PM for them.

[skinst]

Not to mention that the IRC is heavily restricted as well. :/

[crazywargod]

Ok no on the quiz. I remember GPX+, you have to sign up for the forums to play the game and to join the forums there was a quiz. All the quiz did was make me feel like not joining the game and think it a VERY strict place. It very well may be more lenient than I think but I don't care to find out.

 

So a quiz, imho, makes a more hostile atmosphere. So no quiz.

 

 

And EULA's are not read because they are tl;dr. So I would support this if it was just a quick overview of the rules. The ones most often infringed upon by newbies up top for importance.

 

 

I also agree there is a limit to what mods can do. In an RP site I was at before coming to the forums I created/modded multiple groups. So many things need to be done, from adding new stuff to prowling the actual RP to asking for user opinion and those were WAY smaller than here... It is VERY hard work and cannot be done by the mods alone. The entire user-base needs to participate if they want to really make the community the one to be apart of.

[Obscure_Trash]

I can bring that up, TPishek. :3

 

So then what could be improved about IRC? Is it unfriendly, or just strict? :3

[skinst]

WAY too strict. The forum can be suffocating, but the IRC is way worse.

[CatCreature]

And EULA's are not read because they are tl;dr. So I would support this if it was just a quick overview of the rules. The ones most often infringed upon by newbies up top for importance.

Tl;dr AND in a foreign language for some of us. Many users who come here ask for help due to the language barrier. A quiz will stop those people from ever getting help.

[Keriel]

i have to agree with the idea of a more mature section. while i am able to handle mature content now, when i first came to this site probably around a year ago i wasn't ready and i know that some of the stuff allowed to discussed i wasn't ready for.

i am aware of current discussions by about what is and isn't PG and really just want to support the idea of a mature section. to me it seems the easiest way. although, not being a mod i am certainly not an expert.

[Fuzzbucket]

Going to re-post this, because I don't see that anyone gave me an opinion on it: I got a really wonderful PM about doing a sticky in help about "Helpful Hints to Posting in the Help Section". It would discourage things like piling up (which I hate to warn for because I like how willing people are to help in the help section - but I could start doing verbal warns if people really find this off putting?) and not answering if you don't want to or are angry or whatnot. What do people think of this? :3

I think it is brilliant and I think I covered it by saying I agreed with everything you said Your suggestions - by PM and in threads - are ALWAYS helpful, and to have them in one place as a sticky would be great.

 

If TJ doesn't want another sticky (which he said somewhere OH NO about) there could at least be a link to it in the FAQ thread ?

 

Please no "adult" section. WHAT does it have to do with dragons ???

[CatCreature]

Please no "adult" section. WHAT does it have to do with dragons ???

What do drugs, gender issues, religion and abortion have to do with dragons? We're not asking for an "adult" section in SD, we want it in GD.

[RainDear]

When I come to DC, I check my scroll, view fansites to exchange views, visit clicksites to give my clicks, come to the forums to see what is happening, check TMP to see if work needs to be done there, look in help to see if I can answer any questions. Please excuse me if after that I don't want go somewhere else to chat. I remember the "Venting Thread". When it was here, I visited and got to know many of those I still consider friends there. I miss that, but I do not feel that IRC is a replacement for that. I come here, to the cave, to the fansites I use. That is enough for me. I don't like having to go elsewhere to keep up with those I consider friends. I wish TJ would reconsider.

[olympe]

Going to re-post this, because I don't see that anyone gave me an opinion on it: I got a really wonderful PM about doing a sticky in help about "Helpful Hints to Posting in the Help Section". It would discourage things like piling up (which I hate to warn for because I like how willing people are to help in the help section - but I could start doing verbal warns if people really find this off putting?) and not answering if you don't want to or are angry or whatnot. What do people think of this? :3

 

I think that's a great idea. On piling up, I think it is okay as long as it adds some new information. (Like, if someone ask which breeds can be bitten, and the first answer only says something like "everything but unbreedables or those dragons unable to breed with standard dragons") and a second person jumps in to name the breeds, that would be okay IMHO. Because not everybody knows which breeds need special partners (splits, drakes, pygmies/pumpkins).

 

Regarding IRC, I honestly hate that place by now. (And I used to do a lot of chatting.) Only the DC channel is so full of people who don't say much - at least whenever I popped in there. Plus, reading here that people get kicked or even banned from there for the strangest of reasons, like telling others how many minutes to midnight - that's just crazy.

[crazywargod]

Tl;dr AND in a foreign language for some of us. Many users who come here ask for help due to the language barrier. A quiz will stop those people from ever getting help.

Oh I forgot the language barrier. Sure it is a problem but as far as I can tell all of the people who post can at least understand english, even if you can't understand them.

[Fuzzbucket]

What do drugs, gender issues, religion and abortion have to do with dragons? We're not asking for an "adult" section in SD, we want it in GD.

But this is a dragon cave forum..... Oh well. To each whatever

[Imbecamiel]

I do think that a sticky (or link to a thread) on tips for posting in the help section could be quite helpful. :3

 

One additional note on the IRC for chatting - I, for one, pretty much never go there unless I'm trying to arrange a trade.

 

For one thing, my internet can be unreliable, and IRC often does not agree with it at all.

 

For another... Although I enjoy chatting with people casually, actual chat rooms like that, especially with large numbers of people, tend to make me nervous. I like to have more time to consider my responses/posts, or if necessary to disappear for a while and then pick up the thread of conversation again later, which I feel I have in a forum atmosphere but not in a chat room. But that's more of a personal thing, and may not be a problem for many.

[CatCreature]

For another... Although I enjoy chatting with people casually, actual chat rooms like that, especially with large numbers of people, tend to make me nervous. I like to have more time to consider my responses/posts, or if necessary to disappear for a while and then pick up the thread of conversation again later, which I feel I have in a forum atmosphere but not in a chat room. But that's more of a personal thing, and may not be a problem for many.

I'm the same. The IRC (#dc) , for me, is like standing in a classroom while the teacher is gone. Everybody is having a conversation with everybody and I have no idea who's saying what to who.

 

I, too, like to get a few minutes to respond. Especially if I can't find a word in the dictionary. (Like now, the word 'especially' was tricky to find. ^^')

 

I tend to go direct to #dctrades and lurk there instead...

Edited January 2, 2011 by CatCreature

[RheaZen]

But this is a dragon cave forum..... Oh well. To each whatever

... we can also chat about non-DC things...

 

IRC hops/ops/etc. can seem a bit arbitrary at times.

[Fuzzbucket]

A facility to ignore forums that don't interest. I never go to "new posts" because of the slew of ones from the RP area and the games. If I could just set those forums not to show in new posts.... (It works in VB - not sure about here.) You could still go to that area to LOOK - but only the forums you regularly want to view often would come up in new posts. (Yes one can go to each forum - but that's three separate tabs; I am SOOOOO lazy !)

[skauble]

As far as chatting goes, I admit that I understand why it's not entirely welcome here. But, for myself, what I'd be looking for isn't an all out, talk about everything under the sun place. Even though we have GD, the main focus of the site is DC, so I can understand not wanting to have a section dedicated to every random thing that people want to chat about.

 

I'd be satisfied with a small sub-forum in site discussion where we can have some dragon related threads that have a really general topic where we can meander a bit. So that it's kind of friendly talking about the matter as opposed to discussing it in a more structured way. That would allow for more joking, and brief comments that are related but not strictly on topic.

 

The threads could be set up so that they're wiped every X amount of days or every X amount of posts - whichever occurs first. Posts that had no activity in X amount of days could be closed and those made for certain things (like Christmas eggs) could be closed X amount of days after the event. And, IMO, any drama should get an entire thread wipe. I've found that drama tends to decrease when people can't wander in and read what happened while they were gone, because there's often the push to make one's opinions known and start the whole thing again.

 

I think that if people have the up front understanding that these threads are about getting to have more relaxed exchanges and not about preserving their chats for long periods of time, then they'll be more okay with the thread wiping and it won't be too over-taxing for the forum. Also, if the threads were wiped pretty regularly, that would hopefully keep people from getting to far afield.

 

I also think it could work if there were set threads and people weren't allowed to post their own. For instance, I think that the Congrats thread would work way better in that type of forum. I see things posted in there all the time that I want to talk a bit about with people. It's DC talk, but it would wander a bit from the basic purpose of the threads (celebrating good news), so I don't post it.

 

Because even during dragon chatting I think that you can get to know a lot about the people around you. Certainly more of a connection then forum members have now. And while I still think that conversations might have to be nudged back if they got too far off course, what people would be going back to would still be a pretty open topic so it wouldn't be like they didn't have anything to say like it is sometimes when we're nudged back on to a more structured topic.

 

 

[iluvmychis]

When I come to the forums, I am mostly here to see what new things might be going on or are in the works. I also use the forums to search for answers to questions I may have. Most of the time I can find those answers without having to ask anything. I don't really know anyone here and don't really spend any time socializing exactly. Honestly I don't really even remember if I have ever posted about myself?

 

I have seen a great deal of bickering about senseless things (or so it seems) so I try to steer clear of those threads. But I will say, seeing that makes me uncomfortable about posting. Wondering if anything I say is going to bring up a snarky comment or something. If I do post, it is because I would like to chime in on a conversation peacefully or because I might need help with something. In those cases, I'm looking for respectful responses. And maybe part of that is just because I am probably one of the older members... I don't know... or maybe it is just due to the vast numbers of bad experiences on other forums in the past.

 

As for the quiz idea, I think that is a really bad idea. Makes for a very unwelcoming feeling. Makes it feel like, if you don't pass, you can't be a part of our special clique kinda thing, you know? I understand the reasoning behind the idea but I think that would be going about it the wrong way.

 

I also agree that general chat should be kept to a minimum in its on separate area and most of the forum DC related.

 

All in all, I don't have any problems with how the forum is run. Keeping a forum this size running smoothly is a heck of a task. I've run smaller forums in the past and even those can be difficult at times. So all I can say is kudos to all that keep things up and running and thanks for all you do!

[blah]

I've been thinking about this for a while now.

 

A place to chat - since I have been on DC (and that is longer than my joined date on the forums says) this has been a problem in one way or the other. But as far as I know, that is a problem in every forum. I do not think mods are too strict about off topic chatter, it doesn't seem so to the people involved, but reading through a chatty topic when you're actually looking for an answer is incredibly tiresome. I think Skauble's suggestion sounds reasonable.

 

The IRC - is not exactly the forum, but the place we have to chat. I can't say anything about it really. To me chats seems like a huge waste of time where people talk meaningless nonsense because they don't have to put any thought into their reply like on the forum. I only go in there to trade and when we have teleport, I'll probably never use it again.

 

Dragon requests - I stay far away from it. I occasionally go to the completed requests to look at pretty dragons, but I find it to be an extremely hostile place. Which is not the mods' fault at all, so I don't know what to suggest to make it better and the artist/non artist discussion a few pages earlier in this thread clearly suggests to ignore the rest.

 

GD - I post there occasionally. I think it is a friendly section and often has rather interesting threads. But only as long as you share the opinion of a certain group of people. I mostly do, so to me it seems friendly. But people who just have a different opinion and aren't able to back it up with a thousand arguments, who just want to unwind and talk to people, live and let live - they have to face "aww lol, how funny, lookit how stupid you are, here, have five tl;dr posts about something you're not really interested in" and if they still don't agree or simply don't care about some stupid internet fight, they're a troll. The general consensus seems to be "it's not fighting, it's a debate" but I imagine it can be really exhausting and drives people away. The mods - I just never see them doing any modding and also, they're friends with that certain group of people (which is not a bad thing at all, I don't think scary, aloof mods are the way to go) and are rather lenient towards them. This is only my impression and you guys wanted feedback on how users feel, I don't claim this is the truth.

 

A mature section - I understand the wish for it. Many people have found online friends here and naturally want to talk to them about everything. But this is a dragon pixel game, it's just not the place for mature discussions. If they want it, there is a lot of free forum software out there, they can go make their own. About the constant asking what is PG13 - hey, if you're not sure, just don't post it and don't use it to pressure the mods.

 

 

I have more to say, but not more time to post. So I'll leave this as part 1, part 2 will probably follow

[Stunningfire]

I'd love to have bigger inboxes. I think it would be really helpful and great.

I actually think 100 messages is more than enough. I just don't think it should be 100 messages total, like 100 message for the main inbox, 50 for sent, and 50 for saved.

 

I also agree with the trading section idea

[RheaZen]

But this is a dragon pixel game, it's just not the place for mature discussions.

>.> That is what GD is for. on-dragon stuff. It's unrelated.