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[hazeh]

Hahahaha, thanks for the clear up Khay =) I just know from experience that I've gotten "reminders" in threads and not any warns, but then gotten warns before but not a PM or Reminder telling me what happened.

Mostly for new people, it makes them feel terrible because they don't really understand the connotation behind the warns, and thus feel as those they are getting punished for something they don't understand. ^^; At least, that's what I felt when I got my first warn.

[Khallayne]

Hahahaha, thanks for the clear up Khay =) I just know from experience that I've gotten "reminders" in threads and not any warns, but then gotten warns before but not a PM or Reminder telling me what happened.

Mostly for new people, it makes them feel terrible because they don't really understand the connotation behind the warns, and thus feel as those they are getting punished for something they don't understand. ^^; At least, that's what I felt when I got my first warn.

No problem! I can see why members could feel that way, and honestly, that isn't the intention of the moderator team when we give someone their first warn. We have no ill wishes, nor do we wish to punish anyone. It's simply easier to know that a situation was handled by being able to see the warn history of a member, than by digging through a thread.

 

Moderators should try to keep members updated with PMs. I think it is just in the state of the warn, some people are freaking out, and often mistake our tones are more severe than they need to. However, if I wrote out warns as I write out posts, no member will ever get past smilies.

 

And telling someone: "Sorry! ! Had to warn you for spam there. Please don't do this again! =)" to me, almost comes off as condescending.

 

Recently, because of this concern, I've been trying to make my PMs a bit more... member-friendly(?) in a way where members know that I'm not there scream at them. I'm just not sure how that is coming off... x3 You tend not to get the: "the way you worded that warn was very friendly and welcoming! Thanks! I understand now!" responses to warn PMs very often. x3

[RheaZen]

Smilies in warn messages feel mocking.

 

That is all.

[hazeh]

I think a PM accompanying a warn would be fine, or at least in the "warn history" a little more of a friendly explanation. A few of the ones that I've gotten I felt were a little blunt and curt, and didn't really make me feel all that great about an error that I made unintentionally. ^^; I honestly don't recall ever getting a PM about one of my warns, so I think that'd be a good thing to have so members don't feel like they've been demonized by their own mistakes.

 

And telling someone: "Sorry! ! Had to warn you for spam there. Please don't do this again! =)" to me, almost comes off as condescending.

 

Wait, really? . _. I don't find the tone of that condescending at all. That actually comes off as friendly to me. >>;

 

Edit: Rhea... really? >> Well, I guess I don't really know that feeling since none of my warn messages have smilies in them, but without them they feel a little cold. I suppose that's just me, though x3

 

And maybe for the warn-pms, if it's their first warn or whatnot, a little explanation of how they aren't in trouble, but that it's easier for mods to see if they've been properly reminded and whatnot. Along with a friendly note

Edited April 10, 2011 by Shiny Hazard Sign

[Nectaris]

This is interesting, as there's issues going on right now because some people feel that the rules shouldn't be enforced as strictly in the general discussion area.

I was more of referring to the sub-forums, where every one seems to have its own little rules. Where on one it is ok to do X, but on another it isn't. When each one has its own set of rules, it becomes easy to forget them, or mistake one forums rules for another.

[Walker]

I was more of referring to the sub-forums, where every one seems to have its own little rules.  Where on one it is ok to do X, but on another it isn't.  When each one has its own set of rules, it becomes easy to forget them, or mistake one forums rules for another.

Some of us need our own little rules though.

 

I mean... you couldn't rightly enforce rules for OoC comments in GD. People don't use OoC in GD so it would make little sense to have them apply there too. And some things are okay in some forums and not in others. I mean, you couldn't discuss US politics in an OoC topic like you could in a GD topic or CPA. It would simply be off topic.

[olympe]

The problem I have with warn is this: I am and/or have been active on several forums for several years. Never did I receive any warn on any other forum because I tend to obey rules. I even helped to mod one forum for some time, and things were handled without warns as far as possible. I think in the year or so I was among the modding team, we had two or three people get warned. Compared with that, the mods here are warn-happy.

 

Also, warns for small things or honest mistakes seem like an awful way to greet new members. They'll have a reminder of that greeting for what, two weeks? Or was it four? It's just a nice way to start on a new forum.

[Fuzzbucket]

The problem I have with warn is this: I am and/or have been active on several forums for several years. Never did I receive any warn on any other forum because I tend to obey rules. I even helped to mod one forum for some time, and things were handled without warns as far as possible. I think in the year or so I was among the modding team, we had two or three people get warned. Compared with that, the mods here are warn-happy.

 

Also, warns for small things or honest mistakes seem like an awful way to greet new members. They'll have a reminder of that greeting for what, two weeks? Or was it four? It's just a nice way to start on a new forum.

As a not very old member who got warned almost as soon as I showed up here - that was fine with me. WHY I was warned was explained, I was pointed to the rules for that forum, and it was fair enough. I admit I hadn't read the rules. Spamming here does not have the same definition as other places I post (indeed, because of that I have been warned again since then.)

 

Mods are always nice about it. And THAT is what matters. Rather a mod than some angry memento cursing me by PM ! Mods get to be mods because they are OK, as far as I can see. They do a useful job, and as long as your warn level doesn't shoot up (in which case you are probably bringing it upon yourself) it isn't a huge deal - it goes away in not very long. Trust me, I know this.

Edited April 10, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[Linda4atc]

When I first really got involved in the forum, I started my first thread the "horse traders corral". The next day I loggd in to see several new posts and answered each with a a quote and seperate post. OOOoppps I got a spam warning!!!

 

It shocked me and made me feel like I was sent to the principles office.

I felt realy bad, but what I did was to pm the mod, nicely say I was sorry and explain my side, and to ask if the wanring would be going away.

 

I got a pleasant reply that yes, even though it was a lot more work I had to cut and paste each quote into one post, so I would not be spamming. And the warning was just temporary and would go away. I felt a little better and was really glad when I realized that the warnings bars are not public for everyone to see. (at least I don't think they are, because I haven't noticed any other)

 

I wonder if maybe there could be some short little comments attached to each blip on a warning bar. The first warning could say something something like "this is a gentle reminder to read the rules" ....

 

Something like this might let the person know that they are not being punished... yet...

[Khallayne]

@ Shiny Hazard Sign || I try to send a PM, generally, unless I'm rushed, or overtired. I'll say that I usually send a PM 95% of the time, and with new users, I'm working on trying to make them understand that they aren't in trouble. Again though, it is the state of mind. A warn, for me, isn't anything big. Especially not when I have so many chances to mess up, time and time again, each month. The other problem is tone. Where I can mean something sincerely, or in a "hey! Heads up!" way, members may not take it as such when they read it.

 

Though I agree, it is a thing that we can try and work on. =)

 

@ olympe || That all depends on the rules of the forum, and how strictly you guys stood by your rules, and where you guys draw the line. I've moderated some sites for years, and never had to warn. I've moderated one site for two days, and had to ban over 200 accounts. o.0; The only other option available is to not allowing new members to see their warn bar. But then, they wouldn't be able to see their warn history either. I don't know if you've moderated an IF forum, but there is no way to tell if one report has been handled by a moderator or not, unless an action was taken. Which is why we use warns the way we do.

[Fuzzbucket]

You know what I would REALLY like to see ? There is a facility on the other invision forum I am in, where under each post there are two buttons: "quote" and "reply". For every post you want to quote, you hit "quote" rather than reply and when they are all "lit up red" you then go to !add reply at the button - and you get a box with ALL the posts you want to quote with spaces between for you to say your bit.

 

Like this:

 

the first one

 

the next one

 

the third one

 

the final one

 

It is SO much easier than the everlasting cut and paste way - and it is part of the invision software so should be easy to change.

 

Please ? (Of course, it doesn't show up like it does when you are getting ready to post... but you see what I mean !)

Edited April 10, 2011 by fuzzbucket

[TJ09]

That's not available in 1.3. I liked the IPB 2.x series, but 3.x is my only option for upgrading, and it's kind of meh.

[Fuzzbucket]

Rats ! I wonder why they took it out....(the other place is 2.3.6 - I just looked.)

[TJ09]

I saw reports that, if I buy the upgrade to 3.1, I might get access to 2.3, but I dunno for sure.

[Fuzzbucket]

I saw reports that, if I buy the upgrade to 3.1, I might get access to 2.3, but I dunno for sure.

If you think it's possible that admins using 2 might know, I could ask them ? It's a small and amiable place but I don't know what I am talking about here. I know they keep it cheap !

[FireAngel73]

Honestly, I think the warning system is fine how it is. Like the mods have said, how else are mods supposed to know if the situation has already been handled or not?

 

I got two warns a while back (for off-topic posts >_>) and I wasn't all "oh em gee, they hate me and they're yelling at me but I didn't know any better!" --> I was like..."oh, oops, maybe I should have read the rules at some point." (Well, actually, I was sort of like "meh, oh well," but that's beside the point.)

 

I feel that if one warning (that has absolutely no repercussions) is enough to make someone stop posting, then that person is being over sensitive. Especially since you and the mods are the only ones who can see it. It's not like a Scarlet Letter or anything.

 

The mods have never been mean or rude in a warn, and they always explain what you did wrong, and to please not do it again. If they were yelling at you, then that would be another story.

 

I'd rather get one warn and maybe one PM than to get no warn but five PMs.

[Mirikitani]

I wish there was a way to track topics we have posted in. I post here and there, but then forget / lose track of where I posted, effectively ending my discussion in that section.

 

(This has been suggested here)

[RheaZen]

Not to mention the PM limitations.

 

I've gotten plenty of warn and don't like it, but in all honesty if I think of the alternative... I prefer what we've got.

/mental of spam-clogged boards

[Fuzzbucket]

You can do in your controls - go for "topics" !

[Obscure_Trash]

There's a sticky in the completed section which specifically states what will happen if you do a spam post. I mean, is there a way I can make that more obvious to people? If a thread has received some comments in the completed section, should I quote the post that gets made when a topic is moved to the completed section so it's easier to see? I've actually thought about this one before, and wouldn't mind doing so for a thread where that got buried.

Quoting, because you guys danced around this second part, but I didn't receive an answer. x3

 

@Sock Maybe you could make a list?

Or would that be too much work?

 

The thing about a list is you now have to remember to go post your actions there once you've PM'd the user and now all other mods have to go read through the list and see what's been done, then finally go back to the post and either PM or not. Whereas a warn log is right there. We can pop it open and see "op, already taken care of" or "not looked at yet" and easily assess and take care of the situation.

 

Doable, just adds a lot of time onto our work schedule, especially when we already have a function to do that (warns).

 

~

 

Thank you for that post, Khay. That explains what I was trying to say much better.

 

Spam posts aren't gotten rid of everywhere. That's something kind of unique to the completed section, which isn't the only place we get spam in. ^^

 

The one thing I think needs to be done is make a little more standardization throughout the boards as far as rules go. When you have each board with its own set of rules, where one thing is ok in one section, but not ok in another, it is only natural that people will slip up and post what they shouldn't.

 

Can I get an example of something okay in one section but not in another?

 

The only thing that pops to the top of my head is allowing bumping in dragon requests (which is under debate right now, thanks to comments in this thread and in the dragon requests thread I made) but not in the BSA subsection. o3o

 

I think a PM accompanying a warn would be fine, or at least in the "warn history" a little more of a friendly explanation.

 

Thanks to comments in this thread, I PM for every single warn I give out now. I've mentioned it to other mods when they have someone they're warning for the same things and not getting it (as you guys brought up, it's easy to miss a warning), and I know I talked to Lyz and Fini about it when they were modded. :3

 

And through experience and such, I have expanded on my warns a truckton. Even warns I gave out a few months ago are highly different than what I do now.

 

For new users eggspamming, for example, I make sure to give them links to the fansite section or the sticky, the mentoring thread, and the rules. What I put in the warn is what I PM them, simply because I don't know what the heck else I'm supposed to put in the PM. I'm now trying to make sure that the situation will still be clear and how to avoid it, even if the post gets deleted and the warn is looked at a year later. x3

 

Smilies in warn messages feel mocking.

 

That is all.

 

Since this is pretty much how I feel, I don't put smilies in my warns. I don't want to come off as condescending or mocking. The warn isn't a punishment, but it is a reminder that should be taken seriously; also why I don't put smilies.

 

However -

 

Edit: Rhea... really? >> Well, I guess I don't really know that feeling since none of my warn messages have smilies in them, but without them they feel a little cold. I suppose that's just me, though x3

 

I wonder if maybe there could be some short little comments attached to each blip on a warning bar. The first warning could say something something like "this is a gentle reminder to read the rules" ....

 

Something like this might let the person know that they are not being punished... yet...

 

I guess, would you guys prefer that I added some little explanation on what warns are for? I sometimes refer people to this thread. Should I refer them there more often? Is there something that can be added? (See the warn section for what's most relevant.)

 

You know what I would REALLY like to see ? There is a facility on the other invision forum I am in, where under each post there are two buttons: "quote" and "reply". For every post you want to quote, you hit "quote" rather than reply and when they are all "lit up red" you then go to !add reply at the button - and you get a box with ALL the posts you want to quote with spaces between for you to say your bit.

 

That is an extremely useful function. If it is available to the forums one day in some upgrade, I'd love to see it. :3

 

I wish there was a way to track topics we have posted in. I post here and there, but then forget / lose track of where I posted, effectively ending my discussion in that section.

 

Like the "My Assistant" up by where your controls and inbox is located? ^^

 

~

 

XD *hugs fuzzbucket*

Edited April 10, 2011 by SockPuppet Strangler

[Fuzzbucket]

Socky gave me my first warn. She explained EXACTLY what it was for. I read what she said and I didn't do that again (the next warn was for - something else )

 

She was charming. As a (multiple) warn recipient - I am not sure what the concern is here...

[Troya-Shel]

Spam posts aren't gotten rid of everywhere. That's something kind of unique to the completed section, which isn't the only place we get spam in. ^^

 

I'm not sure if this is a point or not, but I've seen, they are many non-native english language users here. Spam has a slite differant meaning in some countries.

As I started, I often did not understand, what you mean with spam postings. When they get a warning, they probably will not really understand why.

 

OK, I haven't received any warnings. But on the beginning I had a question about my egg and used the view link. That this is dangerous for my egg, was much more understandable to me, then if I had gotten a warning, that this is spam. I quickly changed the link to lineage. I couldn't find this helpful information in the FAQ.

 

I still do not understand, why bumping is considered as spam. This can be very usefull, when looking for information, if someone just bumps up the thread. I found a lot of usefull information in the Tiny Question Thread, but when I want to reread something, its not there anymore.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Troya-Shel

[Fiona]

As a longer term member of this forum, I appreciate the mods we have here. I don't consider then "warn happy" at all, since a high percentage of the posters here are quite young and/or inexperienced with forums. Without some organized way to keep control this place would be a total chaotic mess. The current warn system works very well in my opinion.

 

Olympe, one of the things I do pretty much every time I open the forum page is to check the Completed and Requests section of the forum. If I see a new person posting spam in the Completed section often I'll send them a friendly PM just telling them that what they did is against the rules and they might want to go delete their post. I've received exactly one answer back from such a friendly head's up, thanking me for letting them know.

 

I feel even so that the rules are plainly posted and there's really no reason anyone should be excused from obeying the rules. It doesn't matter that the rules are different in different sections of the forum, because the rules for each section are plainly posted. @Sock, repeating the "this is in completed so don't spam" post when a thread has gotten a bunch of stuff done in it after you moved probably wouldn't hurt, if you can keep track of which threads might need such a post. But I don't think it's strictly needed.

[Troya-Shel]

Without some organized way to keep control this place would be a total chaotic mess.

I do agree with this. I just thought, this could be explained somewhere a bit better.

[Obscure_Trash]

Spam has a slite differant meaning in some countries.

As I started, I often did not understand, what you mean with spam postings. When they get a warning, they probably will not really understand why.

This is what is in our board rules:

 

No Spam

No one likes spam, it clutters the board, so don't contribute to the problem. Messages that do not contribute to the topic or forum are considered spam and the poster will receive a warning.

 

We were working on an expanded version of the rules, but it's not finished and we're not sure how close it is to what TJ meant for the board.

 

However, user input is good, especially from those with differences as to what spam means. Is there anything that could be added to that, which you can think of, to clear up the definition of spam? :3

 

I couldn't find this helpful information in the FAQ.

 

I edit the FAQ quite often and love it when users PM me advice for things they think should be added to the FAQ. If there's ever anything you think needs to be added to the FAQ, please feel free to PM any mod, especially a global or help mod. ^^ As is, I have a few things to add, so I can put this on my list to put somewhere. ^^

 

I still do not understand, why bumping is considered as spam. This can be very usefull, when looking for information, if someone just bumps up the thread. I found a lot of usefull information in the Tiny Question Thread, but when I want to reread something, its not there anymore.

 

Actually, people bump in this section and in dragon requests quite a lot.

 

There's a warning in the Tiny Little Questions thread about saving answers if you want to look for them again, since we keep the thread cleaned. Keeping it clean means that users only have a few pages to look back through for their answer or to see if their question may have already been asked. I usually clean it out every few days so many answers are in there for more than a day. ^^

 

@Sock, repeating the "this is in completed so don't spam" post when a thread has gotten a bunch of stuff done in it after you moved probably wouldn't hurt, if you can keep track of which threads might need such a post. But I don't think it's strictly needed.

 

Hmm, thanks. ^^