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Khallayne

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Oh psh. The artist section isn't opening up any time soon, and you're all encouraged to give feedback in the public projects areas. Please, go do that. You will have a hand in effecting future releases, and in that way, selecting the artists whose work will be represented in the closed area.

 

Any other suggestions to improving the forum besides tearing down the artist's area? :3

 

And yes. Even though I totally have no power here, I'm saying it. No. It means nothing but it sure as heck makes me feel better to say it. Noooooo.

Edited by Marrionetta

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@skauble

 

You seem to be focused on "why?", when I think the better question is "why not?" I mean instead of thinking "Why should we? we should focus on why Shouldn't we? I see no reason against fair and equal user input as TJ allows. Entitlement? No not necessarily, but practical and beneficial? Yes

 

In any case, this conversation is a bit off topic and I feel we should move on, if you want twe can move this to PM

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I have seen TJ and the site grow and mature over the past 2 years, it's three years old now. The last three year old I had to deal with was mostly lovable but there were times I wanted to wring his cute little neck- tongue.gif (funny but I fell like that about TJ sometimes-- still mom I guess blink.gif ) Not perfect but still under construction!

 

TJ has been listening to user feed back and responding Much more than when I started---

 

I doubt that the features that have been and will be implemented came from artists.

Most are from the suggestion threads, made by totally non artistic folk like me.

 

If you want to make changes, suggest,in specifics , not generalities.Yes there will be nay-sayers ,but a lot of what I see is much more positive than not. The suggestions that make sense to a majority of people will at least be listened to- some may never be implemented but we do have the right and ability to make suggestions!

 

Yes ,features may not be exactly what the OP was looking for but I will say again, it's the available features that will contribute to a more friendly atmosphere.

 

There are too many of us , with too many different perspectives for everyone to be totally happy.

( I still don't like the contest Idea, but will wait to see how/if it works out before I get too bent)

I can enjoy "playing DC" without having access to the artist room- I doubt that I am alone in that. I believe that the masses will one day be able to chose a dragon or two to be released.

 

When I start to feel upset about mod/staff perks, I have only to look at my son who is a level designer(just out of school and unemployed *sighs*dratted recession) I know the hours he has put into things and remember that the artists here DO NOT GET PAID for the hours of work they put in. So if they want to talk about cats in private chat ,it's fine with me.If I want to be a part of that group,I will need to be reincarnated with artistic ability- and I have some great cat stories,---- Just so long as they don't get all the goodies,and remember that it can be hard to put in concrete terms what one likes or dislikes about an idea when you know nothing about how spriting is done-, and can't draw to save your soul. Not all "I Like it" is spam

 

I would prefer news to be news only and discussion in SD . Questions in the Help section.

But that seems to be the only thing that really bothers me at this point, as over the past years most of the rest of my concerns have been addressed

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that although I see room for improvement over all, things are moving in the right direction-- Autocratic Democracy- that's probably not a real term, TJ is king' but we do have a say in the future of DC. Much more that we might actually realize. Especially those who have joined more recently.

 

Things have changed a lot mostly for the better biggrin.gif

 

Change the things you can and learn to live with the rest

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@skauble

 

You seem to be focused on "why?", when I think the better question is "why not?" I mean instead of thinking "Why should we? we should focus on why Shouldn't we? I see no reason against fair and equal user input as TJ allows. Entitlement? No not necessarily, but practical and beneficial? Yes

 

In any case, this conversation is a bit off topic and I feel we should move on, if you want twe can move this to PM

The answer is no. And that's that.

 

*leaves thread now to actually do some work*

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Wait what? ^

 

I wasn't pushing any one idea

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Any other suggestions to improving the forum besides tearing down the artist's area? :3

Well, I would quote every post I've made since I agreed that tearing down the artists' area was a bad idea, but I feel like that would be a waste of time.

 

For a moment there, I got skinst and Scept to agree on something. Or, at least, they both agreed with me, which is almost like agreeing with each other.

 

I did not know that there was such a friendly community in the artist subforum. I sort of wish we could have that kind of community everywhere else. I feel like if the rules concerning spam, duplicate threads, and chatting were loosened, the forum would feel more like a community than an institution.

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@Sceptile100 - I was saying a final no to making the Artist section public. No. Not happening. Ever. End of discussion.

 

 

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Ah, yes. I have to agree that DR doesn't tend to be the best place to get solid, real concrit on art. And I'm sorry I've gotten less active there. </3

 

As I saw in another thread, we should consider raising the amount of time between bumps to help cut down on all this bumping spam.

 

Is there anything we can do to get more concrit in there? Besides those aware of it pitching our voices in more.

 

I also agree that it does tend to get jumpy in DR. I mean, I remember getting jumped on way back when for pitching in on a thread where I didn't think the dragon was dragon-y enough. It turned into a bit of a fight, as the things I said were things that many people had come in and said before and each time they were put down by the people who had been in the thread from the beginning. Eventually, I figured it was a losing battle, so I gave up and left. And what happened? The dragon was finally finished...and TJ nixed it for not being dragon-y enough.

So how do we work on this? Do I just make sure to patrol more and step in when I see this going on?

I can do that, but it would also be helpful if users would remember to send me off a quick report or PM or e-mail asking me to step in. If things get heated and people are refusing to take concrit, that's something to let me know about so I can step in and see what I can do. :3

 

alot.png

 

I think part of this drama about the artist section comes from people thinking that more goes on in there than it does. Really, site-changing idea's are not coming up in there. It's mostly just fun little surprises for you guys - like the events - and hashing out things that the public has come up with at some point, but that is easier to hash out with less people - like locations.

 

Event dragons aren't done in public, not even in the artist section. That's something users - artists or not - work on either by themselves or with a few friends and PM it to TJ hoping he picks it.

 

I feel that letting people see the artist section but only letting artists post in it would not work. It defeats the point of surprises and would put a lot of pressure on that section. Plus, threads would just pop up in other area's about the site about what is going on in the artist section and just create more drama.

 

I also feel that a space where users' could be but artists couldn't would not work. For one, the way it's put just sounds like a place to "get back at artists for having their own section". It wouldn't get anything constructive done. Just more drama.

 

alot.png

 

I am still, however, for a chatting section, especially if you guys feel we're too strict about staying on topic here. I'm hesitant on letting users' veer off into how cute leetle trees are in a topic asking how long they're staying (that doesn't help people coming into the thread find the answer easily), but if you guys had a place to really go and just chat about that to your liking...

 

I would say that a chatting section shouldn't up your post count, though. :B

 

alot.png

 

Going to throw this out again - is there anything us mods, any of us - can do to make this forum better and friendlier? :3

 

So far, all I've seen is that we can be more lenient with off-topic chatter and chatter. :3

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I did not know that there was such a friendly community in the artist subforum.  I sort of wish we could have that kind of community everywhere else.  I feel like if the rules concerning spam, duplicate threads, and chatting were loosened, the forum would feel more like a community than an institution.

This. This so much.

I mean, to me it seems like the mods have taken a 'stay directly on topic or get out' kind of mentality. And I don't mind that, to a point. However, when people start getting warned for lightly chatting and making non-offensive jokes about the topic, that's when I draw the line. It didn't used to be like that here.

 

Edit because Sock ninja'd me: I don't even think we need a chatting section full of spam (because you know it would be). All I wish we had back was a little more posting freedom, or at the very least a specific guideline of what constitutes as an off-topic spam post.

Edited by Mustangs44

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@SockPuppet Strangler:I remember giving a small crit saying "I" thought a sketch of a dragon had a turtle-like head. Instead of a 'Oh really? I could try something different.' or 'It doesn't matter. I like it.' or anything of the sort I got jumped on about how I was wrong and I was being rude. When I honestly liked it and said so. In the end I got warned for defending myself.

 

 

 

Something you can try, even if it fails I would love the effort as it shows you really care, as I know you do, is to, in threads where there is a majority (like in the abortion thread the majority is those for abortion) remind the majority that just because someone is against them doesn't make that person a troll. Or that some people may happen to usually disagree with the majority in any thread they post in and that it doesn't make them a troll.

 

In short try to reduce this troll obsession this forum has. If you could.

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I mean, to me it seems like the mods have taken a 'stay directly on topic or get out' kind of mentality. And I don't mind that, to a point. However, when people start getting warned for lightly chatting and making non-offensive jokes about the topic, that's when I draw the line. It didn't used to be like that here.

This. It's very frustrating to see people excited about a topic but feel concerned that if you join in, you might get a warning. Then there is IRC. Before the Christmas drop is was almost comical. Someone asked how long it was until midnight, two people replied 4 minutes and they both got kicked for doing a countdown. When they weren't, they were answering a question. That actually happened a few times. I was starting to wonder if the people asking the time were doing it just to get people kicked for *countdowns* Looking over your shoulder for kicks and warnings does tend to make one... tense.

 

As for the artists forum. I am an artist, just not here. My favorite thing is to brainstorm with other artists and get feedback. I think it's where I've done my best work. It's priceless and a good thing to have. Let it be.

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I also think there should be writers, who make breed descriptions and things like that.

 

For instance:

 

This is pretty well written. It's clear, it's comprehensive, and it hasn't got any grammar or spelling errors (unless you count ending a sentence with a preopsition). However, I wouldn't say that the quality of the writing is comparable in the slightest to the quality of the artwork. And who's to say we should just describe the breed? This is an RPG, not a textbook. How about something more like this:

 

 

Thoughts? I'm not nominating myself to do the writing for the site, or anything, I'm just giving an example. This is a first draft, a bit on the long side and not particularly organized, but I think I would prefer descriptions such as this for breeds and for dragons in general. (I also think this should be an acceptable format for user descriptions.)

Wow. I strongly believe that the person who came up with the concept is the only one who has rights to write a description for it! For example, we with my wife developed a concept we love; some nice people are working on it. It will be the very sad day, if smb suddenly has idea that the description isn't nice enough for them, and should be re-written.

 

One person developed a nice idea, another made an awesome sprite (and sometimes it is the same person), so how can you tell them their description isn't as good as the sprite. But it is the original description! T.J. might be the only one who can ask the author to change smt.

 

Golds have a very small description, which fits them perfectly and doesn't stop people from collecting them tongue.gif

 

Also, I believe all those revolution just for revolution are offtopic, because breeds descriptions are DC feedback, not the forum feedback, as the title says, so you better put it in Suggestion/Requests.

 

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I also feel that a space where users' could be but artists couldn't would not work. For one, the way it's put just sounds like a place to "get back at artists for having their own section". It wouldn't get anything constructive done. Just more drama.

I also think it would be pretty useless, but I see the appeal. It could be a place where users can discuss the dragons without worrying about artists pulling their work, getting jumped on by artists, or getting warned by a mod for 'Starting drama between users and artists'. But that seems like it would just further divide artists and users.

 

It's just that when there's so much drama between artists and users as is it, I'm sure what's on many users' minds is that the artist's get to sit in their secret place and complain about all us ungrateful users.

 

And when things are implemented without consulting the users because asking us would have incited too much drama, it gives me the impression that staff and artists don't want to be bothered by asking users so they just go ahead and do it without really caring what users think. It makes it sound like users are just a nuisance that clutter threads, initiate drama, and 'ruin the soup'.

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It's just that when there's so much drama between artists and users as is it, I'm sure what's on many users' minds is that the artist's get to sit in their secret place and complain about all us ungrateful users.

There really isn't, in reality, a whole lot of drama. Every few months someone proposes abolishing the artist's section or removing the artist palettes or not displaying sprite credits on the main site, and then the artists collectively pounce. Most of the time the vast majority of PMs I get from other users concerning my status as an artist has to do with asking permission for use of my sprites in banners. Totally civil and completely flattering. :3

 

Also, we're far too self absorbed and shallow to talk about anything but ourselves in the artist's section. It's almost always OMIGAWD GAIZ I HAD A HOT DATE / BAW MY BOYFRIEND DUMPED ME / CAT DEAD I HASA SAD IT NO CAN HASA CHEEZBURGER. (In fact, 100% of cat deaths are caused by giving into their requests for cheezburgers.) Rarely it's LOOKIT MAI SPRITE / WOAH LOOKIT UR SPRITE RITE THAR THERE'S A FUNNY FIX IT. It's really REALLY REALLY not that interesting. We're doing you a favor keeping our boring, embarrassing selves locked up.

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It's just that when there's so much drama between artists and users as is it, I'm sure what's on many users' minds is that the artist's get to sit in their secret place and complain about all us ungrateful users.

Y'know, I keep seeing a LOT of assumption about what goes on in the Artist section, yet none of you guys have even tried to assume what goes on in the MOD section.

 

Yep, they have one. Have I seen it? No. Do I know anything about it, or what goes on there? No.

 

Yet none of you are saying the mods shouldn't have a secret section to discuss forum politics. Only the artists. Funny how that goes.

 

Mods have a private haven to themselves to discuss rules and whatever they need to discuss IN PRIVATE without users watching through the fishbowl, if you will. Artists have a private haven to play with pixels and discuss stuff about cats and our personal lives. Things that we only feel comfortable sharing with a select few.

 

Yet everyone seems to think that we all sit around and laugh at everyone like snotty little brats. While I am aware that past experiences have not painted a pretty picture of the Artists as a whole, not all of us are like that.

 

And I find it EXTREMELY unfair that we are ALL judged by the actions of a select few.

 

And when things are implemented without consulting the users because asking us would have incited too much drama, it gives me the impression that staff and artists don't want to be bothered by asking users so they just go ahead and do it without really caring what users think. It makes it sound like users are just a nuisance that clutter threads, initiate drama, and 'ruin the soup'.

 

It's not about 'not caring' about people's opinions. If the mods didn't care, there would be no news posts about upcoming features, and no site polls to gather opinions.

 

And sometimes? EVERYONE, artist, user and mod alike, can 'ruin the soup'. Does that mean that Artists don't care what you guys think? No. Does that mean mods don't care what you guys think? No.

 

What it means is that sometimes, JUST sometimes, mods and artists need their damn space to freaking BREATHE without people staring at us, watching our every move, so to speak.

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I feel that letting people see the artist section but only letting artists post in it would not work. It defeats the point of surprises and would put a lot of pressure on that section. Plus, threads would just pop up in other area's about the site about what is going on in the artist section and just create more drama.

 

I agree with this. Before there was an artists' form, things from there spilled over into SD all the time. I can't really see anything that's changed around here to such an extent that it wouldn't happen all over again.

 

I am still, however, for a chatting section, especially if you guys feel we're too strict about staying on topic here. I'm hesitant on letting users' veer off into how cute leetle trees are in a topic asking how long they're staying (that doesn't help people coming into the thread find the answer easily), but if you guys had a place to really go and just chat about that to your liking...

 

I would say that a chatting section shouldn't up your post count, though. :B

 

I agree about not upping post count. Also, I don't see why chat threads - however it's decided they be done - couldn't be wiped every week on a given day (maybe even more depending on how busy it was). Those things tend to move really fast, and I don't think it's necessary to keep a long history of posts. It is just chatting after all. If it were discussion it could go in the SD section, where I could see the need for maintaining a sizable thread.

 

But it would be nice to be able to talk about things like the leetle trees and let the conversation take it's own course. While there may be things that the mods can do to make the forum more friendly, if the users are better able to make friends with each other then I think that would take care of a lot of the issue.

 

Going to throw this out again - is there anything us mods, any of us - can do to make this forum better and friendlier? :3

 

I know that this is difficult because you guys seem to have a lot on your plate between having a RL and keeping this place in order, but I think that posting more in threads from a user standpoint as opposed to the need to step in as a moderator (either to answer questions or warn people) would probably help. I think that it would make the mods seem more accessible if people connected with them on common ground.

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Going to throw this out again - is there anything us mods, any of us - can do to make this forum better and friendlier? :3

 

So far, all I've seen is that we can be more lenient with off-topic chatter and chatter. :3

 

This thread sure has grown; a rather nice thing to see. I've already posted a bit earlier in this thread, but I'll go over a few other points I'm sure have been suggested already =P

 

Less locking of threads-- especially in the Help section. Most of the time, locking a thread is used as a last resort when moderation is just not enough to keep the thread "behaving". I feel it is overused here, preventing further discussion on the topic, new insight on old problems, updates, etc. It's rather restricting, and all those locked topics sure is a sight for sore eyes.

Putting "ANSWERED" in the title (as is currently done) should be enough to deter users from repeating information because they couldn't be bothered to actually read the thread. Persistent, off-topic chatters could simply be warned (through PM or the meter thingy) if they continue.

 

Duplicate threads could be merged into existing threads, instead of locking them as well (if it's only a few posts/pages). This might help the newbies who inevitably create a duplicate feel less like they've been lashed =o

 

Less paranoia about drama-- really, there isn't much drama here. In fact, it's rather annoying to be reading a thread and see the peanut gallery's constant repeating of "silly drama-llamas" drowning out good discussion =P

It is hard to tell if this is a learned behavior from the very strict no-drama moderation policies, or if people just have some bizarre infatuation with it. In any case, I think this could be improved in some regards, and would help this forum return to a somewhat laid-back, chilled atmosphere =) We all deserve to kick back, even mods.

 

By relaxing when it comes to possible drama-topics, this might open up for more artist critique that is sought. I must admit, I too would enjoy critiquing more aspects in a positive manner, without having to type disclaimers to deter suspicion of starting drama =(

"Sorry if this offends anyone, but... apologizes if anyone takes offense to this... this is just my opinion, don't take it personally... sorry if this thread has been made already... I searched and found nothing... I'm not an artist, but... etc."

 

Being conscientious of artists' feeling is always a priority, but tip-toeing around possible issues is almost patronizing to their hard work, I feel =) Of course, these things are not entirely on moderator shoulders, and would require equal effort from the community too. Overly sensitive artists just may not be cut out for publicizing their work if they cannot handle constructive criticism without letting it impact them deeply. That may be the brunt truth of it =(

 

Oof, and I started typing this with the intent of being brief. Nine 'TLDR' at your service.

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There really isn't, in reality, a whole lot of drama.  Every few months someone proposes abolishing the artist's section or removing the artist palettes or not displaying sprite credits on the main site, and then the artists collectively pounce.  Most of the time the vast majority of PMs I get from other users concerning my status as an artist has to do with asking permission for use of my sprites in banners.  Totally civil and completely flattering.  :3

 

Also, we're far too self absorbed and shallow to talk about anything but ourselves in the artist's section.  It's almost always OMIGAWD GAIZ I HAD A HOT DATE / BAW MY BOYFRIEND DUMPED ME / CAT DEAD I HASA SAD IT NO CAN HASA CHEEZBURGER.  (In fact, 100% of cat deaths are caused by giving into their requests for cheezburgers.)  Rarely it's LOOKIT MAI SPRITE / WOAH LOOKIT UR SPRITE RITE THAR THERE'S A FUNNY FIX IT.  It's really REALLY REALLY not that interesting.  We're doing you a favor keeping our boring, embarrassing selves locked up.

Boring, no, but you do know that you could go talk about yourselves in the Current Thought Thread v2, right?

 

I agree... there isn't really much drama in the forum, despite silly claims that people shout out to try to tell everyone about their day. But maybe that's because if there was no drama like people want, this place would be... just... not as interesting to participate in as it was before. But I guess that's what the topics are for, like Roleplaying and Multimedia. The off-chatter does get a little annoying, though. Being straightfoward for a very long period of time would leave most of us begging to actually crack a joke or something, I'm sorry to say. Unless that's required. But sometimes it's a really good thing, like with more talking about the actual thing you're on.

 

I wish that some people who join in an RP would actually remember joining it with a little reminder... and respond to it.

 

Less flat critique would do it for me, so I guess the off-chatter actually does help a bit in some circumstances. And in some art-related topics. (Not really talking to anyone in particular, but...) Instead of saying, "That's horrible, why the butterwhacket did you even draw that?! I could do it hella better! Go eat it and then go away!" when the person who requests for there to be critique didn't do their best work on a sprite, drawing, or any other thing of that sort, try to give more details of the problem and tell the artist what you like about it and what needs improving unless you absolutely must insult its mother or be cynical with less detail. Also, seeing as this is kind of a problem sometimes, don't immediately faint at the first sight of critique on something you did and insult it with gusto. It's not meant to scare you for life, it's just meant to help you so you don't get more of it.

 

Why should people think that one person's opinion is going to be stolen and used by the thousands of other people who see what they made?

 

And finally, Mods do care. There would be no pity from TJ about some of the new eggs that died, no freedom to be random (dunno why you'd want to), and actually have a little friendliness here as we do today. Keeping a forum going is hard work though.

Edited by Kandycat

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Less paranoia about drama-- really, there isn't much drama here. In fact, it's rather annoying to be reading a thread and see the peanut gallery's constant repeating of "silly drama-llamas" drowning out good discussion =P

It is hard to tell if this is a learned behavior from the very strict no-drama moderation policies, or if people just have some bizarre infatuation with it. In any case, I think this could be improved in some regards, and would help this forum return to a somewhat laid-back, chilled atmosphere =) We all deserve to kick back, even mods.

While I agree that people often jump ahead to cries of drama when things are still well within the realms of discussion, I do have to say that there has been some fairly spectacular drama here over the years - Halloween '08, V Day '09, the 3.5 day change, the alt egg change, snow angel wings, V Day '09 (it deserves a second mention) just to name a few. So people aren't being unrealistic when they talk about the potential for drama here, it's just that they can really jump the gun sometimes.

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Y'know, I keep seeing a LOT of assumption about what goes on in the Artist section, yet none of you guys have even tried to assume what goes on in the MOD section.

 

Yep, they have one. Have I seen it? No. Do I know anything about it, or what goes on there? No.

 

Yet none of you are saying the mods shouldn't have a secret section to discuss forum politics. Only the artists. Funny how that goes.

 

Mods have a private haven to themselves to discuss rules and whatever they need to discuss IN PRIVATE without users watching through the fishbowl, if you will. Artists have a private haven to play with pixels and discuss stuff about cats and our personal lives. Things that we only feel comfortable sharing with a select few.

 

Yet everyone seems to think that we all sit around and laugh at everyone like snotty little brats. While I am aware that past experiences have not painted a pretty picture of the Artists as a whole, not all of us are like that.

 

And I find it EXTREMELY unfair that we are ALL judged by the actions of a select few.

 

 

 

It's not about 'not caring' about people's opinions. If the mods didn't care, there would be no news posts about upcoming features, and no site polls to gather opinions.

 

And sometimes? EVERYONE, artist, user and mod alike, can 'ruin the soup'. Does that mean that Artists don't care what you guys think? No. Does that mean mods don't care what you guys think? No.

 

What it means is that sometimes, JUST sometimes, mods and artists need their damn space to freaking BREATHE without people staring at us, watching our every move, so to speak.

I've been a forum admin before, and there was a moderator section. But there wasn't any chit-chat, it was strictly business. Any chit-chat was moved onto the main forum. I think a section for moderators is a good idea because there are so many issues on the forum that if moderators only had a PM system to contact each other, TJ and all the moderators would have full PM boxes all the time.

 

See, I really don't see the point of artists having a secret area to talk about their cats. Why can't you do that in GD? There's a thread for Pets. Maybe you only want to share that information with your artist buddies, but couldn't that just go to PM? Regular users have site friends too that maybe they'd only like to share certain things with, but they don't get our own forum to do that. They do it over the pm system, or with outside programs like msn.

 

I can understand the need for an artist section where work is done. I don't understand the need for one where it sounds like you guys are mostly just a club house talking about random things that only artists are invited to. It just doesn't sound that necessary.

Edited by Syaoransbear

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Yeah, an artists section where you work on secret projects is fine, but if you're just using it for chit-chat that could go elswhere it is uneeded.

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I've been a forum admin before, and there was a moderator section. But there wasn't any chit-chat, it was strictly business. Any chit-chat was moved onto the main forum. I think a section for moderators is a good idea because there are so many issues on the forum that if moderators only had a PM system to contact each other, TJ and all the moderators would have full PM boxes all the time.

 

See, I really don't see the point of artists having a secret area to talk about their cats. Why can't you do that in GD? There's a thread for Pets. Maybe you only want to share that information with your artist buddies, but couldn't that just go to PM? Regular users have site friends too that maybe they'd only like to share certain things with, but they don't get our own forum to do that. They do it over the pm system, or with outside programs like msn.

 

I can understand the need for an artist section where work is done. I don't understand the need for one where it sounds like you guys are mostly just a club house talking about random things that only artists are invited to. It just doesn't sound that necessary.

But what gives members right to judge whether artists need their own section, if T.J. as the owner and the only admin of this Forums allowed them to have one? Is T.J. in doubts about his decision, or what? We don't manage the Forum, so I don't understand why we decide whether artists need their section or not.

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I agree about not upping post count. Also, I don't see why chat threads - however it's decided they be done - couldn't be wiped every week on a given day (maybe even more depending on how busy it was). Those things tend to move really fast, and I don't think it's necessary to keep a long history of posts. It is just chatting after all. If it were discussion it could go in the SD section, where I could see the need for maintaining a sizable thread.

 

But it would be nice to be able to talk about things like the leetle trees and let the conversation take it's own course. While there may be things that the mods can do to make the forum more friendly, if the users are better able to make friends with each other then I think that would take care of a lot of the issue.

Awww! Now you made me think of the old Vent thread. sad.gif I miss it! It had to be wiped everyday but it was a good place to chat.

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To address the general friendly vs. unfriendly feel of the forum...

 

Thinking back to when I was a newbie (so very long ago... pffft, not.) - I was intimidated, yes. But really... I'm terribly intimidated whenever I try to start out on a new forum, and most particularly a large one. Basically? I'm very easily intimidated, by pretty much anyone. >.<

 

That being the case, I tend to obsessively read all the rules before posting, and lurk quite a lot to get a feel for things before jumping in. For quite some time (I think around eight months?) I didn't post much outside the occasional question in the help section. I found the atmosphere there quite welcoming and kind - far from feeling "piled on," getting several prompt responses to any question I had, usually elaborating on different aspects, was very helpful.

 

When I first started branching out, it was into Dragon Requests - which, yes, did have a rather insular, "either you've been here a while and you're 'in', or you're a newbie and you're 'out'" feel. I didn't dare post much outside my own request thread(s) to begin with.

 

But y'know? Being polite and grateful for input, and carefully considering and appreciating people taking time to give crit, ultimately valid or not, helped immensely. It helped me grow as an artist AND it seemed people got friendlier as I stuck around and they realized I wasn't going to flip out or just dismiss crit offhand. Still took me a while to feel comfortable enough to offer input on others' threads (not to mention feel like I was experienced enough to know what I was talking about). I still don't offer the amount of crit in other threads that I should - that is certainly a valid issue, and I'll be making an effort to branch out more with that.

 

As far as the wider forums - I've only fairly recently worked up the courage to post regularly in GD. It does have a rather intimidating feel... but again, even in the relatively intense threads I've posted in, I've yet to get into any nastiness.

 

So yes, sometimes I've felt intimidated or closed off, sometimes still do, but... I can't think of a single person here - mod or regular user - with whom I'm not on good terms. And most of my interactions here have been quite positive. I've never posted on ANY other forum even close to as much as I do here. So. *shrugs*

 

 

TL;DR important stuff:

 

All in all, I wonder if any shift in overall atmosphere isn't going to be primarily down to individual users checking their attitudes and tones in interacting with others and making a more intentional effort in that direction.

 

And, while mod efforts are great, and much appreciated - I wonder how much, ultimately, they can actually influence that?

 

 

I do think that the two things that would, overall, make me feel more comfortable and free to get to know people would be:

 

1. The earlier-discussed need to clarify what exactly constitutes a warnable offence.

 

2. Loosening some of the restrictions on semi-related chatter in threads. (Not just a separate place to chat, though I wouldn't object to that.)

 

 

I also would be quite open to the idea of mods contacting people with more informal verbal "warns" (via PM or in the thread) before things actually get to a stage of needing "official" warns. I know I'd appreciate a friendly "Hey, might be a good idea to step back and cool it a bit before things get out of hand" heads-up from a mod - personally, if it was done in a casual tone I wouldn't see it as too confrontational or intimidating. :3

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This forum has a tendency to not be nice to newbies, but they aren't being nice to newbies that break the rules they've agreed to upon signing up.

 

I never felt like this forum was unfriendly to me when I first joined, but I also religiously followed the rules.

 

I think if you are a newbie and you actually follow the rules, you won't run into any trouble. If you mess up, yes, you get jumped on, because following the rules just isn't that difficult and members get a little tired of seeing the same rules broken over and over. Especially when you first start and there are those ginormous links to the rules above the forum that you really can't miss.

 

I think that has to do with the age group this game attracts. You get younger users who really don't want to read through all of the rules or search for threads, they just want to get clicks for their eggs.

 

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