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[Obscure_Trash]

DR and Completed makes sense to help keep projects secret, even if the general forum public can see them. Art theft could be a reason, as mentioned. I wouldn't mind seeing the BSA section visible to guests, though. I think that would make sense.

 

And on a looser note than that, I'd also actually really like for the Ask-A-Mod section visible to guests again. I don't care if guests get to know me. And I liked reading through it on mobile when I wasn't logged in. It was just nice and helped if I was feeling lonely. I really, really don't get why that was closed to guests. =\

Edited January 22, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[whitebaron]

Since it was not allowed in the tiny assistance thread: Can we get an official stance on "lost to ap" - kind of threads? Are they forbidden at all, because of [enter reason] ?

[blah]

LiT was allowed for years and I don't see how this is different.

 

No one who has grabbed an egg in the AP is obliged to even look at the thread. I can't see how that is bothering anyone. It's like LiT, if you do not care, you will never know if the egg was lost or abandoned on purpose.

[whitebaron]

Users shouldn't be bothering other users to return legitimately nabbed eggs, even if they are polite about it or are offering other dragons up in compensation. It's one thing if the egg is offered in a trade, but if the user has grabbed and it has shown no intentions of trading it...

It's even better than Lost in Trades. Because you could say: "I lost egg XXX, who wants to try to catch it for me?" longe before it ever turns up in ap.

 

People who want to harass will do that regardless of a thread, maybe it could be allowed to request eggs that have not shown up in ap yet to be stalked and caught?

Edited January 22, 2014 by whitebaron

[diaveborn]

Users shouldn't be bothering other users to return legitimately nabbed eggs, even if they are polite about it or are offering other dragons up in compensation. It's one thing if the egg is offered in a trade, but if the user has grabbed and it has shown no intentions of trading it...

I'm very fine with the thread being not allowed to have the request for auto-APed eggs returned. I just want to make sure I was being clear -

 

The intention when I put it in the post was not

-someone got the egg

-you request the egg back

 

but instead (edit: like whitebaron says:)

-the egg is in the AP

-you request that people keep a look out for the purposes of returning it (as people have demonstrated they have been willing to do this in the past)

 

So it is technically "return of a nabbed egg". But not "requesting the return from someone who has no intention of giving it back". (I never want to promote people bothering others who only picked up an AP egg and did not choose by picking up that egg to get wrapped up in the issue.) It's more just helping the egg have a greater likelihood of going to someone who has the intention of giving it back, because that's the reason they're specifically looking for that egg in the first place.

 

I'm not trying to change minds here, I know the mods talked and spent time on the issue, and I want to respect anything that was decided. But the post I quoted that says "don't bother people to return an egg" doesn't really say anything about the other situation (that has been popping up from time to time in tiny little questions) so probably clarification would help?

 

(p.s. thanks folks for the nice words )

Edited January 22, 2014 by diaveborn

[Fuzzbucket]

Changing the parents' names to "If you find this egg, I would love it back" and so on, and putting a request in your sig seem to work as it is, so....

[RainDear]

Changing the parents' names to "If you find this egg, I would love it back" and so on, and putting a request in your sig seem to work as it is, so....

Perhaps the OP could put this in the first post of the thread? I just thought if users had a place to make these requests, we wouldn't have so many people making new threads about this in Help. Maybe having this information somewhere would work to reduce this.

[whitebaron]

Changing the parents' names to "If you find this egg, I would love it back" and so on, and putting a request in your sig seem to work as it is, so....

Changing the parents names is a rather direct way, and one I see as a lot more prone to harassment than a forums thread. ("father: give it back to xxx, mother: or mommy will die") also it only works after the fact, not before.

 

 

Scouring the ap for the purpose of finding that specific egg is fun in itself, too.

 

Finally, the signature idea works for people like you, sometimes me, and especially well for the top 50 posters. But there are people here, who have like 30 posts per YEAR (not DAY). They'd have to break their habits and post somewhere. Guess where they'd usually end up without a specific place to got to? Help or tlq.

[dragongrrl]

Because many of us would return an egg if we knew of the breeder's need, it really would be nice if there was somewhere to check.

 

Just as LiT wasn't mandatory or demanding for anyone to return an egg, I don't think diaveborn's thread is any different.

 

Yes, people should check before breeding something they especially need, but things do go awry, a hatchie-lock may be missed, and sometimes it's a matter of looking at a breed page while planning about a breeding, but unintentionally clicking at the wrong time and - wait- that was the egg I wanted to breed when I unlocked! Yes, I have done that. Once!

[Fiona]

This subject isn't normally one I have to worry about. I did however wish such a thread existed the other day. I forgot I was locked with eggs I was holding to gift and bred my alt Shadow Walker to send an egg to someone. Oops. Straight to the AP. This wouldn't normally be a problem as I generally have multiples of each breed and can try again, but it was blusangs and they weren't feeling cooperative at all. So, the person I bred the egg for ends up having to wait for a week for me to try again. This makes me sad.

 

If such a thread had existed there's a small chance the egg would have been returned to me, so I could pass it to the intended recipient. They'd only have to wait the three days for the egg to show up in the AP. And the person who returned it to me would have had their choice of another 2nd gen from my alts as a thank you.

 

No pressure on anyone. No demanding anything. But it would have been an opportunity for those who like to do that sort of thing to help out.

 

-- and I'm not willing to rename any of my alts. Their names are getting fairly widespread and known out there. Can you imagine a person's confusion when the mother of their 2nd gen white from my alts suddenly changes her name to "PLEASE RETURN IF FOUND" ?

Edited January 22, 2014 by Fiona BlueFire

[Obscure_Trash]

I deleted my earlier post. I don't know what I'm talking about. Just ignore me. Sorry. =U

[whitebaron]

I'd like to see a more strict policy implemented on the main Suggestions forum.

 

While we have rules for requests, that kinda protect the artist from unsound assumptions and personal griefs, there are 3 kind of replies that get made so often to outright shoot down suggestions by others via intimidation, its not very fun:

 

1) x has said no before, thus this cant be done. (x being a spriter or mod or tj)

2) its so much work for tj to do!

3) facts assuming knowing what the majority of forumsgoers or players want.

 

i say:let 1+2 be used by tj and mods only give warns for mini-modding else.

3 is harder, maybe just make some sort of suggestions guideline too?

[Fuzzbucket]

A small point - but - while I love the fact that TLQ is no longer cleaned out, it means that it is HUGELY long, and searching for anything in it is very tough. The forum search is - not great. The "easy way" search solution that works for most threads is to "print thread" and then use ctrl and F.

 

But TLQ is so very long that you just get a message that the forum is under heavy load instead. Would it be possible to have it locked regularly at a point where the thread can still be printed and ctrl + F works - and link to all the older TLQ threads in the first post of each new TLQ thread ?

Edited February 6, 2014 by fuzzbucket

[TJ09]

If TLQ is in dozens of different threads, how is it easier?

 

If you don't remember exactly which thread it's in, you still have to go through each one.

 

I think what you're proposing is a hack to get around the forum search sucking, where the actual problem is the forum search sucking, not TLQ.

[Obscure_Trash]

When it gets hugely long we might do something like start a new one. When you search, do you know the username/keywords or are you just looking for something you vaguely remember coming up?

 

~

 

We do try to discourage posts like in 1&2. TJ himself has come into a thread before to ask that people not just say "no because TJ said so" because that doesn't let TJ know what we're actually thinking. I'm not sure about warning for mini-modding (which we warn for under the spam rule), but if you see posts like that, do either PM an appropriate mod or use the report button. We have stepped in before to get threads back on track and PM'd people to discuss posts sometimes. At the very least, we're aware that we might need to keep an eye on the thread and see where it goes.

As for 3 - that's why we're now trying to discourage the use of yes/no polls because it contributes to the idea that a poll gives a good selection of user opinions and then people say yes/no to the thread based on that.

[whitebaron]

But.. Posts like 1+2 happen almost EVERY day. Seen 4 of those alone today. So a tougher stance on this might go a long way...

[Fuzzbucket]

If TLQ is in dozens of different threads, how is it easier?

 

If you don't remember exactly which thread it's in, you still have to go through each one.

 

I think what you're proposing is a hack to get around the forum search sucking, where the actual problem is the forum search sucking, not TLQ.

Oh I do agree. But if you can't remember how the thing you are looking for was worded.... print and ctrl+F is such a help.

 

TLQ is an EXCELLENT source of information, and it would take a lot less time to do that with say - a dozen or so threads if they were easy to find, than try and remember who said what, using what wording, and approximately when, to narrow it down.

 

But if you can make the search work better, I will grovel at your feet, really ! I am a whiz at boolean searching (I used to have to do a lot of that as part of my job !) and even so....

 

Is there any mileage in doing what another forum I am on does, and have a google search option just for this forum in here, as well as the invision one ?

[Obscure_Trash]

It's busy times of year again, and I need to make sure to pop into help sections more often. I have not been following along in many of the suggestions threads as closely as I usually do. Got out of the habit due to a busy semester last semester and have not yet gotten back into the habit. So reports would help. Mods can discuss warning for such posts, but I am uncomfortable warning for something like that. I'd rather just let people know to make a post of their own thoughts. I probably warn enough as is. I don't need to be handing out more warns for something that's an annoyance more than an infraction of board rules.

 

~

 

I personally don't have many troubles with search (or at least not too often), so it'd be cool if people could list suggestions of what they'd like to see for search, I think. o3o

The one thing I can think of (which has basically already been brought up) is the ability to do a search just within a thread itself.

Edited February 6, 2014 by SockPuppet Strangler

[DarkEternity]

Fuzzbucket, it's easy. Enter the following into google.

inurl:http://forums.dragcave.net/index.php?showtopic=135709 whatyourememberofthepost

 

 

[whitebaron]

Mods can discuss warning for such posts, but I am uncomfortable warning for something like that. I'd rather just let people know to make a post of their own thoughts. I probably warn enough as is. I don't need to be handing out more warns for something that's an annoyance more than an infraction of board rules.

Actually, posts like that are direct infractions on free speech, trying to shame/intimidate someone into just stopping without the need to give real opposing thoughts. Since we get warned for little verbal abuses already, this should be a lot more warned, and if its only as reminders on the thread/post.

Edited February 7, 2014 by whitebaron

[Obscure_Trash]

Actually, posts like that are direct infractions on free speech, trying to shame/intimidate someone into just stopping without the need to give real opposing thoughts. Since we get warned for little verbal abuses already, this should be a lot more warned, and if its only as reminders on the thread/post.

I don't agree with the posts, but, uh, no they're not "direct infractions on free speech" (and if they were, how does this fit with our board rules?). Verbal abuse is one thing, calling someone names is one thing, trolling is one thing, but posting something that's really an annoyance is in a whole other league. o_O

Really, the topic or user just needs a gentle nudge in a different direction. =\ I'm just gonna go ahead and say no, I'm not warning for those posts. I'll gladly post a reminder in the topic that such posts doesn't tell us what the user thinks and to leave TJ's opinions to TJ, though.

 

If the only thing in their post is "TJ shot this down" then perhaps a warning for being off-topic. But again, that leads us back to people reporting the post.

[HeatherMarie]

I'm very very glad Sock has weighed in on that, because.... "direct infractions on free speech"? Uh, nope.

 

1) x has said no before, thus this cant be done. (x being a spriter or mod or tj)

2) its so much work for tj to do!

 

2 is, very simply, an opinion. The poster thinks the suggestion is too much work. There's nothing there that stifles anyone else's free speech. It's an opinion. Does it get annoying when it's said repeatedly, in absence of anything else, sure. But it's not against the rules.

 

1 is actually, imo, a very valid post. Frankly, if I start a thread with a suggestion that has no hope of being realized, I'd be grateful for a post simply stating that the spriter has nixed the idea. Oh well, too bad, let's move on to the next idea, instead of attempting to work out details of something that's never going to happen. It helps the spriters, too, because who can keep up with every single suggestion that might have something to do with their own sprite? On this heavy-traffic forum?

 

The *only* "direct infraction on free speech" I've ever seen on this forum is when mods edit a user's post because it's breaking a rule. But if the post is actually breaking a rule in the first place, that's exactly what needs to be done.

[whitebaron]

Marie, those kind of posts are usually done

1) without proof to back it up or

2) taken out of context

in order to directly shut up another user. Yes, sometimes they are meant as help, but I still see the majority of them as just a "shut up, stupid", and they often work.

 

Especially in the technical parts, opinion is the worst thing you can do, especially since its always presented as facts by some "programmer" or "specialist", or worse yet, based on flawed assumptions. It disrupts entire discussions to the point of stopping.

 

 

[Renorei]

I don't think such posts can be considered "direct infractions on free speech" but it certainly seems that quite often, their intent is to shut someone else up. The "this is too much work for TJ" post is especially ridiculous because it's flimsy (how many people who make these statements are actually programmers??). Only TJ knows how much work something would be and whether he considers a particular idea worth his time to input. People shouldn't speak for him or speak about things they know nothing of.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Renorei

[angelicdragonpuppy]

I think it depends on how the poster handles it. Not too long ago, there was a suggestion to make the cave go back to how it originally was for just one day as a nostalgia thing. I believe people mentioned it would have been a lot of work for very little gain--and that was probably true. Would saying that really have been cause enough for a hand slapping?